Deandre Ayton news and discussion

[Frank Lee]

He’s lazy

Period

[sunsbg]

Are you not worried about how passive Ayton has continually been looking ever since that brief 5 game decent stretch he had? It's just very very frustrating. Every now and again he does some nice things - that pass to the Bridges cut was beautiful and he's shown that every now and again.

But all those good moments are dominated by vast stretches of passive play. He now rarely does any sort of self-creation in the post, barely gets any and1s, frequently fumbles passes, brings the ball down low and gets stripped, is passive in receiving passes at the top of the key which leads to turnovers. Even his FT shooting looks lazy with a flat shot. The 3-ball is also something that rarely makes an appearance, and when he does shoot it, it's mostly very flat a'la Bender.

At this juncture, his offensive production is limited to putbacks and anything that Paul and Booker serve to him on a plate. He'll show a couple of nice midrange jumpers now and then, but even those are fairly limited.

Now I get that Ayton in some ways is a victim of the team's success in that Monty & Co. deem it more important to share the ball and get good shots as opposed to force-feeding Ayton, but Ayton needs to realize quickly that this league waits for nobody. The team has gotten good quickly and isn't going to have the patience to spoon feed him. Either he works his butt off and improves his offensive skills the way Bridges has, or this FO will deem him dispensable and use him in a trade in the not too distant future.

I was going to reply with something like in the bolded part, but I see you get it on your own. It's obvious part of the so called regression is because of what he's been asked to do.

What has Mikal, who's two years older, improved so much on offense than Ayton ? Being spoon fed on cuts just like Ayton. He had two drives trying to create something in this game and turned it over. In the meantime Ayton had a nice drive putting the ball behind his back, nice turnaround jumper. Mikal is scoring less than Ayton for the season and somehow he's improved drastically, while Ayton has regressed. Personally, I don't see any one of them being more likely to lay an egg in the playoffs than the other. The love for Bridges and hate for Ayton on this board is amusing.

[Saberestar]

Are you not worried about how passive Ayton has continually been looking ever since that brief 5 game decent stretch he had? It's just very very frustrating. Every now and again he does some nice things - that pass to the Bridges cut was beautiful and he's shown that every now and again.

But all those good moments are dominated by vast stretches of passive play. He now rarely does any sort of self-creation in the post, barely gets any and1s, frequently fumbles passes, brings the ball down low and gets stripped, is passive in receiving passes at the top of the key which leads to turnovers. Even his FT shooting looks lazy with a flat shot. The 3-ball is also something that rarely makes an appearance, and when he does shoot it, it's mostly very flat a'la Bender.

At this juncture, his offensive production is limited to putbacks and anything that Paul and Booker serve to him on a plate. He'll show a couple of nice midrange jumpers now and then, but even those are fairly limited.

Now I get that Ayton in some ways is a victim of the team's success in that Monty & Co. deem it more important to share the ball and get good shots as opposed to force-feeding Ayton, but Ayton needs to realize quickly that this league waits for nobody. The team has gotten good quickly and isn't going to have the patience to spoon feed him. Either he works his butt off and improves his offensive skills the way Bridges has, or this FO will deem him dispensable and use him in a trade in the not too distant future.

I was going to reply with something like in the bolded part, but I see you get it on your own. It's obvious part of the so called regression is because of what he's been asked to do.

What has Mikal, who's two years older, improved so much on offense than Ayton ? Being spoon fed on cuts just like Ayton. He had two drives trying to create something in this game and turned it over. In the meantime Ayton had a nice drive putting the ball behind his back, nice turnaround jumper. Mikal is scoring less than Ayton for the season and somehow he's improved drastically, while Ayton has regressed. Personally, I don't see any one of them being more likely to lay an egg in the playoffs than the other. The love for Bridges and hate for Ayton on this board is amusing.

Personally I value both exactly the same ATM, starter players at SF and C.

The "hate" on Ayton that you refers is because there are higher expectations for him and for his lack of consistency in effort and intensity.

Ayton is two years younger BUT he was the #1 pick in the draft and has a more expensive contract than Bridges.

Mikal was the #10 pick in the same draft so he is exceeding expectations. An starting caliber player with #10 is always a nice pick. Hopefully Jalen Smith can get there...not an easy task.

Sometimes is hard to defend what Ayton does on the court. His motor is meh, and for me that's always his biggest flaw. You can't say that about any other player on our roster. Mikal can't create for himself or for others but his intensity and activity are there every single night.

[Wilber85]

Yall cry about everything. Yes at times he is lazy but he is one of our best defenders & our best rebounder. You guys rate people based on offense lol.

What is crazy is Booker , Paul have a crap game, but you all blame Ayton!

[sunsbg]

Are you not worried about how passive Ayton has continually been looking ever since that brief 5 game decent stretch he had? It's just very very frustrating. Every now and again he does some nice things - that pass to the Bridges cut was beautiful and he's shown that every now and again.

But all those good moments are dominated by vast stretches of passive play. He now rarely does any sort of self-creation in the post, barely gets any and1s, frequently fumbles passes, brings the ball down low and gets stripped, is passive in receiving passes at the top of the key which leads to turnovers. Even his FT shooting looks lazy with a flat shot. The 3-ball is also something that rarely makes an appearance, and when he does shoot it, it's mostly very flat a'la Bender.

At this juncture, his offensive production is limited to putbacks and anything that Paul and Booker serve to him on a plate. He'll show a couple of nice midrange jumpers now and then, but even those are fairly limited.

Now I get that Ayton in some ways is a victim of the team's success in that Monty & Co. deem it more important to share the ball and get good shots as opposed to force-feeding Ayton, but Ayton needs to realize quickly that this league waits for nobody. The team has gotten good quickly and isn't going to have the patience to spoon feed him. Either he works his butt off and improves his offensive skills the way Bridges has, or this FO will deem him dispensable and use him in a trade in the not too distant future.

I was going to reply with something like in the bolded part, but I see you get it on your own. It's obvious part of the so called regression is because of what he's been asked to do.

What has Mikal, who's two years older, improved so much on offense than Ayton ? Being spoon fed on cuts just like Ayton. He had two drives trying to create something in this game and turned it over. In the meantime Ayton had a nice drive putting the ball behind his back, nice turnaround jumper. Mikal is scoring less than Ayton for the season and somehow he's improved drastically, while Ayton has regressed. Personally, I don't see any one of them being more likely to lay an egg in the playoffs than the other. The love for Bridges and hate for Ayton on this board is amusing.

Personally I value both exactly the same ATM, starter players at SF and C.

The "hate" on Ayton that you refers is because there are higher expectations for him and for his lack of consistency in effort and intensity.

Ayton is two years younger BUT he was the #1 pick in the draft and has a more expensive contract than Bridges.

Mikal was the #10 pick in the same draft so he is exceeding expectations. An starting caliber player with #10 is always a nice pick. Hopefully Jalen Smith can get there...not an easy task.

Sometimes is hard to defend what Ayton does on the court. His motor is meh, and for me that's always his biggest flaw. You can't say that about any other player on our roster. Mikal can't create for himself or for others but his intensity and activity are there every single night.

I value them the same as well production-wise, but I think it's harder to replace Ayton than Mikal.

No need for the quotes as some here really hate him, just a lack of maturity when they accuse DA of such. I mean, it's his 3rd year now, expectations should not be the case anymore. Though as I said he's two years younger, so potential is still higher than Mikal's. In a year or two both will get paid roughly the same, will those people start hating on Mikal as well.

[bwgood77]

This is the sort of play that makes you think Ayton will lay an egg in the playoffs. You get blocked, and decide to simply jog back on D? Where's the fire?

Read on Twitter

?s=20

I seriously doubt that's why he benched him for the rest of the game. He was aggressive on offense like they want to be and had been playing well on D..and ran into a guy on the other end. Did he sprint back down? No, but few players do, and they had a big head start.

He didn't play because we made a run. He probably should have been inserted the last five minutes when our comeback stalled as he had played efficient offense, solid D, was aggressive and got boards.

We got very sloppy again with consecutive turnovers once we had cut the lead and that was that.

[bwgood77]

Now I get that Ayton in some ways is a victim of the team's success in that Monty & Co. deem it more important to share the ball and get good shots as opposed to force-feeding Ayton, butthis FO will deem him dispensable and use him in a trade in the not too distant future.

I think he may get traded if they want to fast forward and get a more experienced bit in here given a short window at the expense of the future.

I think many teams would line up for it....most of the younger teams with maybe a big who could be viewed as better now but far less upside later.

I think we could trade him for Drummond, Capela, Valancinuas...and a number of guys like that.

Those who think he stinks and also feel we could get a huge package doesn't make much sense...if you don't think he's that good why would he fetch a big package?

I won't be surprised if they trade him due to Sarver's impatience though. I imagine it would be a shortsighted move that would more limit our future upside. I don't truly imagine we will beat the LA teams in the next couple years anyway, and very well lose to Utah or Denver given their playoff experience...so could be a first round exit.

[bwgood77]

Are you not worried about how passive Ayton has continually been looking ever since that brief 5 game decent stretch he had? It's just very very frustrating. Every now and again he does some nice things - that pass to the Bridges cut was beautiful and he's shown that every now and again.

But all those good moments are dominated by vast stretches of passive play. He now rarely does any sort of self-creation in the post, barely gets any and1s, frequently fumbles passes, brings the ball down low and gets stripped, is passive in receiving passes at the top of the key which leads to turnovers. Even his FT shooting looks lazy with a flat shot. The 3-ball is also something that rarely makes an appearance, and when he does shoot it, it's mostly very flat a'la Bender.

At this juncture, his offensive production is limited to putbacks and anything that Paul and Booker serve to him on a plate. He'll show a couple of nice midrange jumpers now and then, but even those are fairly limited.

Now I get that Ayton in some ways is a victim of the team's success in that Monty & Co. deem it more important to share the ball and get good shots as opposed to force-feeding Ayton, but Ayton needs to realize quickly that this league waits for nobody. The team has gotten good quickly and isn't going to have the patience to spoon feed him. Either he works his butt off and improves his offensive skills the way Bridges has, or this FO will deem him dispensable and use him in a trade in the not too distant future.

I was going to reply with something like in the bolded part, but I see you get it on your own. It's obvious part of the so called regression is because of what he's been asked to do.

What has Mikal, who's two years older, improved so much on offense than Ayton ? Being spoon fed on cuts just like Ayton. He had two drives trying to create something in this game and turned it over. In the meantime Ayton had a nice drive putting the ball behind his back, nice turnaround jumper. Mikal is scoring less than Ayton for the season and somehow he's improved drastically, while Ayton has regressed. Personally, I don't see any one of them being more likely to lay an egg in the playoffs than the other. The love for Bridges and hate for Ayton on this board is amusing.

Bridges came in with much more experience, a couple years older, better coaching in college playing with experienced teammates, and yes, also has mostly improved and gets spoon fed on cuts or 3s. His 3 pt shooting has improved and self creation has improved a bit.

He has improved a little more than Ayton on offense, has a higher iq and more experience, and plays with more energy all the time, but that's also because he's a skinny wing and not a 250 lb big.

Ayton plays with more energy than most bigs, because he chases guys around the perimeter on switches. Other bigs stand in the middle so down the stretch of games have preserved more energy to be more energetic on rebounding later. It's not laziness as much as being winded...if you watch it you can see. His conditioning will improve, especially with normal offseasons and likely down the stretch this year.

[lilfishi22]

Ayton's tentativeness and inconsistency is super frustrating but in defense of him, we're still 25-12 so he's doing more things right than wrong in order for him to be playing the minutes he has for us and still help us win. I think it's just going to be a consistent theme in his career unless he makes a change. There's going to be games where he looks like a top 3 C in the league then there's 4-5 game stretches where you wonder if you would've gotten more value drafting Mitchell Robinson in the second round than Ayton with the #1 overall pick.

I do question whether he's the guy going forward long term but I don't think we can make that kind of big decision as a team that hasn't been in the playoffs for a decade. If we get swept in the playoffs maybe we can have those conversations about trading Ayton for a playoff piece but I just think given we're at worst a playoff team this season, I just don't think it makes sense to want to move him when we technically haven't even made the playoffs yet. Who knows maybe Ayton could really impress in the playoffs where he reaches a new level of focus because it's what demanded of him that he just can't reach over a long 82/72 game season.

[bwgood77]

Ayton's tentativeness and inconsistency is super frustrating but in defense of him, we're still 25-12 so he's doing more things right than wrong in order for him to be playing the minutes he has for us and still help us win. I think it's just going to be a consistent theme in his career unless he makes a change. There's going to be games where he looks like a top 3 C in the league then there's 4-5 game stretches where you wonder if you would've gotten more value drafting Mitchell Robinson in the second round than Ayton with the #1 overall pick.

I do question whether he's the guy going forward long term but I don't think we can make that kind of big decision as a team that hasn't been in the playoffs for a decade. If we get swept in the playoffs maybe we can have those conversations about trading Ayton for a playoff piece but I just think given we're at worst a playoff team this season, I just don't think it makes sense to want to move him when we technically haven't even made the playoffs yet. Who knows maybe Ayton could really impress in the playoffs where he reaches a new level of focus because it's what demanded of him that he just can't reach over a long 82/72 game season.

Oh yeah, I would have definitely preferred to get Mitchell Robinson later and Doncic with the first pick. That was what I was hoping for. But we've talked about that quite a bit.

However, since McD was going to take a big at #1, I'm certainly glad he took Ayton over the others..many thought it was an elite class of bigs.


I also expect he improves during the 2nd half of the season as he did last year, kind of like Shaq used to.

[lilfishi22]

Ayton's tentativeness and inconsistency is super frustrating but in defense of him, we're still 25-12 so he's doing more things right than wrong in order for him to be playing the minutes he has for us and still help us win. I think it's just going to be a consistent theme in his career unless he makes a change. There's going to be games where he looks like a top 3 C in the league then there's 4-5 game stretches where you wonder if you would've gotten more value drafting Mitchell Robinson in the second round than Ayton with the #1 overall pick.

I do question whether he's the guy going forward long term but I don't think we can make that kind of big decision as a team that hasn't been in the playoffs for a decade. If we get swept in the playoffs maybe we can have those conversations about trading Ayton for a playoff piece but I just think given we're at worst a playoff team this season, I just don't think it makes sense to want to move him when we technically haven't even made the playoffs yet. Who knows maybe Ayton could really impress in the playoffs where he reaches a new level of focus because it's what demanded of him that he just can't reach over a long 82/72 game season.

Oh yeah, I would have definitely preferred to get Mitchell Robinson later and Doncic with the first pick. That was what I was hoping for. But we've talked about that quite a bit.

However, since McD was going to take a big at #1, I'm certainly glad he took Ayton over the others..many thought it was an elite class of bigs.

I also expect he improves during the 2nd half of the season as he did last year, kind of like Shaq used to.

I think I need to see more evidence of this.

Last season he's essentially only played half a season. So we only have his rookie season as a true 1st half vs 2nd half sample size

[bwgood77]

Ayton's tentativeness and inconsistency is super frustrating but in defense of him, we're still 25-12 so he's doing more things right than wrong in order for him to be playing the minutes he has for us and still help us win. I think it's just going to be a consistent theme in his career unless he makes a change. There's going to be games where he looks like a top 3 C in the league then there's 4-5 game stretches where you wonder if you would've gotten more value drafting Mitchell Robinson in the second round than Ayton with the #1 overall pick.

I do question whether he's the guy going forward long term but I don't think we can make that kind of big decision as a team that hasn't been in the playoffs for a decade. If we get swept in the playoffs maybe we can have those conversations about trading Ayton for a playoff piece but I just think given we're at worst a playoff team this season, I just don't think it makes sense to want to move him when we technically haven't even made the playoffs yet. Who knows maybe Ayton could really impress in the playoffs where he reaches a new level of focus because it's what demanded of him that he just can't reach over a long 82/72 game season.

Oh yeah, I would have definitely preferred to get Mitchell Robinson later and Doncic with the first pick. That was what I was hoping for. But we've talked about that quite a bit.

However, since McD was going to take a big at #1, I'm certainly glad he took Ayton over the others..many thought it was an elite class of bigs.

I also expect he improves during the 2nd half of the season as he did last year, kind of like Shaq used to.

I think I need to see more evidence of this.

Last season he's essentially only played half a season. So we only have his rookie season as a true 1st half vs 2nd half sample size

Well, last year scan his lines from 12/30 to 1/26....he had a few good games in there like from 1/16-1/20, but then look at 1/28 or Feb on...all the way through mid March....he had a lot of monster lines and was far more consistent...look at pts/rebs..but also assists and blocks. https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/aytonde01/gamelog/2020

Even in the bubble he had 4 games of 18-25 pts and 10-12 boards but had 2-3 low scoring games which is all people remember and hang onto..but he was inconsistent again after a 4 1/2 month layoff.

Now it only took him about a month of play because he was able to practice with the team and stuff after a training camp and didn't come into the season after a 9 month layoff.

This year we didn't have a training camp so it was about 2 months before the all star break, and in his first game back he got a slow start, but in last night's game, he was playing so well he played nearly 20 minutes in the first half and put up 10/8/2/1/1...which is a great half.

My guess is he continues to get better like he did last year.

[lilfishi22]

I dunno, sample size is way too small for me to agree with you on that assessment, in particular when you said "consistently". There just isn't enough to say he's consistently better. I agree that there was a good stretch last season just before the long break where he looked pretty consistent and was really good but I'll need to see how he looks in a full season. This season is as good as any considering he didn't have a proper training camp (neither did anyone really) so the narrative that he's playing himself into shape and into rhythm should play out well if it's true that he plays better in the 2nd half than the 1st half.

Someone like Jokic has the sample size to say he plays himself into shape and goes on a tear in the 2nd half.

[bwgood77]

I dunno, sample size is way too small for me to agree with you on that assessment, in particular when you said "consistently". There just isn't enough to say he's consistently better. I agree that there was a good stretch last season just before the long break where he looked pretty consistent and was really good but I'll need to see how he looks in a full season. This season is as good as any considering he didn't have a proper training camp (neither did anyone really) so the narrative that he's playing himself into shape and into rhythm should play out well if it's true that he plays better in the 2nd half than the 1st half.

Someone like Jokic has the sample size to say he plays himself into shape and goes on a tear in the 2nd half.

Maybe...but he went from 14.7 and 11, to 22.3 and 13, so it was quite an uptick. Over 30 games is a pretty good sample size, from his first 10 after practicing with the team for 25...combined about 35, to the next 20 before the stoppage.

But if it's not enough of a sample for you I guess I can't convince. I don't expect his scoring to go up as much given the fact we have so many more scoring options and depth, (Rubio to CP3 a big change), but I expect his overall game play to improve down the stretch and next year as he gets the second half and time to train without a change in PG for a 4th time to get accustomed to...and a change in playstyle.

[lilfishi22]

It's not so much a big scoring or rebounding uptick but just overall consistency game to game. Ayton can be really good without being a absolutely dominant in either scoring as long as he's consistent with his effort on both ends of the court. But so far this season and in particular the last 15 games or so, he just doesn't seem to be revving up for a great 2nd half. In the last 15 games he's reached double digit rebounding (his bread and butter) in only 7 games. Not saying he sucked because there's a few pretty good games in that last 15 but the trend isn't really positive.

Dario being in the closing 5 in 3 of the last 4 games isn't really the trajectory of someone that is playing himself into a monster (consistency) 2nd half.

[irish22022]

What would it take to get KAT? Ayton + who?

I think we all deep down know what type of player ayton will be for his career. He's never gonna do what we think he can do. And I really fear he's a classic contract year player type too

[TouchPassDario]

Yall cry about everything. Yes at times he is lazy but he is one of our best defenders & our best rebounder. You guys rate people based on offense lol.

What is crazy is Booker , Paul have a crap game, but you all blame Ayton!

And they’re older established stars. They have to be more consistent.

[TouchPassDario]

This is the sort of play that makes you think Ayton will lay an egg in the playoffs. You get blocked, and decide to simply jog back on D? Where's the fire?

Read on Twitter

?s=20

I seriously doubt that's why he benched him for the rest of the game. He was aggressive on offense like they want to be and had been playing well on D..and ran into a guy on the other end. Did he sprint back down? No, but few players do, and they had a big head start.

He didn't play because we made a run. He probably should have been inserted the last five minutes when our comeback stalled as he had played efficient offense, solid D, was aggressive and got boards.

We got very sloppy again with consecutive turnovers once we had cut the lead and that was that.

This is exactly correct. Good post.

Some people have brain worms when it comes to narrativezzzz.

Awful SunsTwitter is awful. Hilarious that people would put their public names on such idiotic takes. Then again, most people actually liked it that saw it. Sad state of affairs all around: c’est la vie.

[TouchPassDario]

BRIDGES IS 24 YEARS OLD.

Stop treating Ayton the same because they were in the same draft class. If Ayton doesn’t improve from year3 to year5 I’ll be worried. He has made significant improvements in each of the last two years, but BOX SCORE HAWKS cannot look further than their own stupid nose glasses scouring the box.

Year1: couldn’t defend at all. Anchored 29th ranked defense.

Year 2: went from unplayable on defense to average. Anchors 17th ranked defense. Regresses a bit on offense (drops to 56.8% TS)

Year 3: Anchors top10 defense. Offense up to 62.3% TS. Roll gravity helps complementary pieces thrive and helps lead to top10 offense.

[TouchPassDario]

Trading DA for Drummond/Capela/JV would be insanely dumb, and would destroy most of JJ’s goodwill.