2021-22 Season/Offseason Speculation

[bwgood77]

The Suns think DA is a 4/$120 player, DA thinks he is a 5/$170+ player - both sides know that he now has a year to prove that he is a 5/$170+ player. Not a huge deal.

Why don't Suns want a 5th year? You're not far off if you just add a 5th year and another $30 (which is what you're at per year).

[Ghost of Kleine]

Someone said it above. Ayton is a max player only by the compatible value law. Who is ayton closer to in skillet, John Collins or Anthony Davis? I know that isn't how it works, he'll get the max from someone, but if we trade him for a KAT package, we win the trade.

I want ayton. But it's okay to make the kid prove it. We'll match whatever offer he gets and move on.

If we trade him for a KAT package, we lose big time defensively. Towns isn’t a good defender and he’s an even worse rim protector. He’s way better offensively than Ayton but he doesn’t compliment this team well with what we need at the C spot which is rim protection.

I hope they don’t trade him but if they do, then the only trades that make sense to me would be players like Capela, Turner, Allen etc. Even then I think Ayton is a better player than those guys and he’s younger too but at least unlike a Towns trade, those guys can all defend as well.

I don’t think Suns brass will trade away the first #1 overall pick that they’ve drafted in franchise history. But maybe I’ll be proven wrong.

the only trades that make sense to me would be players like Capela, Turner, Allen etc.

If I might, I would look to add another name or two to that list ( depending upon which direction Saver prioritizes monetarily):

If were looking at solid defensive/ strong rim protectors that would come pretty cheap,
a name that I'd offer would be Mitchell Robinson. He's got size at 7'0 240 lbs and a 7'4 wingspan. Now obviously he's nowhere near Ayton in terms of statistical value. And he has nearly no offensive game to speak of aside from maybe rim running plays/ lobs. But again, he'd come pretty cheap at around 1.8 million (currently) and the Knicks would likely resign him on the cheap for likely around 5-6 million or so. I'm sure that he could add double/ double production and solid defense/ rim protection on the cheap! Which would appeal to Saver!

The other bonuses of a trade with New York would be:

- The additional assets the Knicks would be willing to include currently, the consensus is something around Robinson/ Barrett or Toppin ( our preference) / Quickley/ two firsts. Beyond the obvious value of Barrett and Quickly or Toppin and Quickly, Which we could package with one of the firsts ( Dallas 2023 first ) along with other pieces for another key veteran contributor?? The other first I'd take right away would be Charlotte's 2022 first. This would give us a very solid chance at someone like
Yannick Zsosa-
https://nbadraftroom.com/yannick-nzosa/
Who projects as a more offensively/ defensively advanced Clint Capela!
Or Jalen Duran-
( If we get lucky in the lottery)!
https://nbadraftroom.com/p/jalen-duren/
Who projects as another Young, dominant Dwight Howard.

- Doing right by Ayton after stiffing him and disrespecting him ( in perception of value) by sending him to a team wherein he can make tons of money in addition to max, through endorsements, etc. He'd also be on a contender in New York as for them, swapping Ayton for Mitchell would be a huge upgrade for them.

- We move Ayton to the east coast so we aren't strengthening a conference rival or western team.

- In doing right by Ayton, We can somewhat repair the very bad optics we've incurred now around the league with free agents/ players.

Now IF we are just looking to cut costs and look more to the future in interest of cost control and long term value, Then we should consider a trade with Charlotte. I say this with interest in Kai Jones ( specifically) as he's a long super athletic versatile and fluid big that would offer us comparable upside/ athleticism and vertical explosiveness, gravity to that of Ayton. Albeit admittedly to a lesser degree. He's got good size at 6'11 220 lbs (will need to fill.out) and a 7'2 wingspan. But he's got incredible upside.

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

I'd look at a package of Plumlee/ Kai Jones/ Vernon Carey and two firsts. Carey is a big body at 6'10 270 lbs. But is very skilled and can hit the three at a solid clip.

Honestly though, IF we end up trading Ayton, The closest we can realistically get to his statistical production/ impact would be in trading for Vucevic and a filler. AND THEN
do whatever we can to sign Chris Boucher in free agency. Or trade 4 him to be our supplemental defensive 4 to compliment Vucevic.

Finally, two other trades for long term value whilst still maintaining a modicum of competitive upside would be:
( If we don't care about trading him to a Western conference team)

Spoiler:

Sacramento-
Ayton for Davion Mitchell ( Paul's understudy)/ Marvin Bagley/ Richaun Holmes/ Sacramento 2022 first. Then I flip Bagley and Holmes to Chicago for Vucevic. And draft Zsosa to be our two way Clint Capela with offense at the 4.

Or we could flip Bagley/ Holmes/ future heavily protected first for Isiah Stewart from the Pistons. Stewart has been a physical double/ double monster for detroit. But is still on his rookie contract. Adding him would be a huge upgrade for our bench frontcourt. He could fill Sarics' role. We then use the Sacramento 22' in a sign n trade for Mitchell from New York?


Houston-
Ayton for Wood/ Sengun/ Porter Jr/ Houston 1st. Sengun has been really, really good for Houston in the summer league and looks very talented. He could fill our 3rd string 4 position, allowing us to package Saric and Smith for an expiring ( Young). Then Wood slots in at the 5, with McGee backing him up. Not ideal by comparison. But we're not going to find comparable value in any deal wherein we lose Ayton.

Vucevic is the closest offensively. And Mitchell would be the most comparable defensively. I wish there was some way that we could acquire both. And have Vucevic play at the 4 and Mitchell at the 5 for defense? But could/ Vucevic do that?

[Frank Lee]

Stop it Ghost
Nobody is trading Ayton this yr at least, lest he pouts his way off the squad. This is business on the FO side. Only DA can make it personal. It’s what happens when one side refuses to negotiate. I’ll say again, I love the poker face the FO has.



And as for Shamet…. They really wanted this dude. Dont forget he was a PG in college and lead his Shockers to the elite 8 if I remember. Now we are potentially square at PG for a few more yes and may be then some. This is a good, versatile 4 guard rotation.

This off season reeks of Jones…. targeting a few guys, likely listening some to CP and(?) conservatively signing a few more…. holding fast to his nothing fancy basically boring plan. I don’t see Bobbie’s fingerprints on many if any of these decisions, just his thumbs up. Seems like a pretty good off season to me.


PS… Puff bringing the stuff, among others

[Ghost of Kleine]

David Kevin (@theIVpointplay) Tweeted:
☀️ Just Published: Suns Salary Cap Update

✍️ On the eve of PHXs season, I tried to best encapsulate how I felt about recent moves & what they might mean for the future.

▶️ Extension Details + Trade Thoughts + Ayton RFA + Cam Johnson + Lots More!

https://t.co/O8ZXhHUFxx

Read on Twitter

?s=20

[darealjuice]

Read on Twitter

?s=21

Would love if someone would post or PM this to me. Unsubscribed after they gutted their AZ sports coverage.

[Ghost of Kleine]

One theory on possible reasons for the suns NOT wanting to offer Ayton the 5 yr max:

David Kevin (@theIVpointplay) Tweeted:
This is the strongest public indication I’ve got on some educated guesses I made a couple of months ago.

Read on Twitter

?s=20

And shared by another person as well:
So they want flexibility to possibly pursue another star in the coming years. But figure signing Ayton to a max would be an obstacle to that and as a result would rather not pay him the full "designated max" classification. Also indicating they don't see him as a max player.

Evan Sidery (@esidery) Tweeted:
This was very interesting from @sam_amick’s discussion with James Jones.

Connect the dots how you want to here, but Phoenix is hunting for another star in the near future: https://t.co/KJ23fxXWx9

Read on Twitter

?s=20

[matt131]

Read on Twitter

?s=21

Would love if someone would post or PM this to me. Unsubscribed after they gutted their AZ sports coverage.

Spoiler:

James Jones gets it.

Any time a prominent player doesn’t come to terms on an extension by the deadline, there’s going to be a public discourse about the how and why the two sides couldn’t meet in the middle. And any time said player suits up for the Phoenix Suns, who are owned by the oft-criticized Robert Sarver, the decibel level on that discussion is going to rival a Suns home game in — oh, let’s just say — the Finals. You know, like the ones that happened there just a few months ago when everything felt so much, well, sunnier in the Valley of the Sun.

Before we get into the nitty-gritty of the acrimonious Deandre Ayton situation with the Suns general manager who spoke with The Athletic at length on Monday night, detailing the hows and whys of the choice to not give Ayton the max deal he so desired, let’s take a moment to acknowledge that unexpected part of what took place just a few months ago. The Suns, who didn’t even make the playoffs in the 2019-20 season that ended in the Orlando bubble, were up 2-0 on Milwaukee on the NBA’s grandest stage before falling short at the end. And Ayton, the 23-year-old big man who was taken first overall out of Arizona in 2018 and who took a massive step forward last season, had everything to do with it.

Contract complications aside, that part is indisputable.

But when it comes to the criticism that came the Suns’ way in the wake of the decision, Jones refuted the widespread claim that this was a case of Sarver being cheap. Above all else, he claims the Suns were open to discussing the possibility of a three- or four-year max deal, and that it was only the designated rookie five-year max that was completely off the table in the talks that clearly didn’t go well.

“We didn’t have real negotiations,” Jones said.

But Ayton’s agents, Bill Duffy and Nima Namakian, strongly disagree and were adamant in multiple conversations with The Athletic on Tuesday that a max deal of any kind was never offered even informally. From beginning to end, they said, the organization’s unmistakable message from Sarver on down was that Ayton wasn’t viewed as worthy of a max deal. In response, Jones said, “They know that a three- or four-year max was not an (acceptable) option for them.”

Ayton, who will now be a restricted free agent next summer when the Suns will have the right to match an offer that comes his way, has been vocal about his displeasure as well. Needless to say, this is not the most ideal way for a defending Western Conference champion to start its season.
There’s one element here which hasn’t been discussed publicly, but that Jones highlighted as part of the Suns’ thinking: If they had given Ayton the designated rookie max extension like they did Devin Booker in the summer of 2018, that move would have limited their ability to pursue stars on other teams who have already been given designated rookie max deals. Per the rules of the league’s collective bargaining agreement, teams can’t have more than two players on designated rookie max extensions. If they have hopes of adding even more star power here — and it seems clear they do — that factor does make some sense.

Yet Ayton’s representatives say they were never told of this rationale during the process, so one can understand why it would fall on deaf ears now and be seen, in essence, as part of a public effort to quell the criticism. What’s more, the prospect of landing a player of that caliber without giving up Booker or Ayton in return is likely far-fetched.

Either way, Jones — who is just four months removed from being named the NBA’s executive of the year and now finds himself in the middle of this uncomfortable mess — chose to share his side of the story in our conversation below.

James, you’re the guy who’s making these calls and taking a fair amount of heat right now, so tell me: What led to the decision to not max out Deandre and let this go to restricted free agency next summer? What are people missing here about what you guys decided to do?

I mean, obviously, we’re disappointed that we couldn’t reach an extension agreement this offseason. Deandre is important for us. He means a lot to us and was vital in what we did and what we’ve done this past season. A lot of what we’ve done since the playoffs — bringing back CP (Chris Paul on a four-year, $120 million deal that includes $75 million in guaranteed money), Mikal (Bridges on a four-year, $90 million deal), Cam Payne (on a three-year, $19 million deal), Landry (Shamet on a four-year, $43 million deal that sources say includes $20 million in guaranteed money in the first two seasons, a non-guaranteed third season and a team option in the fourth season), JaVale (McGee on a one-year, $5 million deal), adding those guys — was intended to make this group even stronger. All of those moves were to help (Ayton) grow, help the team grow, because we want a championship.

We know it’s important to us; it’s important to him that we continue to progress and we continue to develop and we win (a title). So when we talked about a focus this offseason, it was to continue to build this team. So for us, unfortunately, we are where we are (with Ayton). No agreement. We didn’t have real negotiations. You talk about conversations (with Ayton’s representatives, Bill Duffy and Nima ) — it was five-year, max extension like the other peers, the other former No. 1 picks, and that’s where the conversation started and ended. Anything less than a five-year max wasn’t something to be considered — not something to talk about. It’s evident. They talk about us having discussions on a three-year, four-year max (deals). Those are real.

So people are trying to figure out what motivated the move, and the question of the tax implications certainly comes up. Your team hasn’t paid the tax since 2010, I believe, so it’s probably a fair question. What message are you getting from Robert regarding the tax and the prospect of him eventually paying it if you guys feel like you’re still championship contenders?

We’re gonna pay it. I can tell you, if you look at our roster now, all of the moves we’ve made — from Chris, Mikal, Cam Payne, Landry. All those moves that we’ve made have been to continue to build a team — a deep team. So we’re gonna pay the tax (and) continue to build a deep team.

What about the locker room component here? You know locker rooms and chemistry and team dynamics, and Deandre has been pretty outspoken about his frustration. Does it concern you in terms of his interest level being in Phoenix long-term? He’s a very important piece to what you guys are doing. What’s the impact on that front?

I mean, ultimately we want the same thing, and we’ll find a way to get there. He wants to be here. We want him here. We’re dedicated to his growth, to his development. It’s the same as Day One. That hasn’t changed. The contract issue will have to be resolved another day, but our commitment to him and to winning, and his commitment to us and to winning, hasn’t changed. And so yeah, today we didn’t get a deal done. But we want to bring a championship to this city. We talk about winning. He’s about winning, and I still go back to — it’s just disappointing and unfortunate we couldn’t reach a deal or have substantive conversations around what that long-term future looks like. But we will again in the future.

What has the communication been like with Deandre?

He’s here, and I’ve spoken to him a couple times. But this has been a process with him and his representatives and us. … DA has just been working with the team. He’s been a part of it, part of the team. And look, like I said, I think it’s way more complicated than (most believe). All these things do become way more complicated, because they are personal. It’s the part of the job that’s tough. It’s the part of the job that puts stress on everything, but that’s what it is.

What about the general idea that Robert is being cheap here? That’s a reputational thing that has certainly been part of the discussion. How have you seen that perspective?

It’s inaccurate. If you just look at the moves we’ve made, it’s inaccurate. It’s just not (true). If you look at all the moves we’ve made, and the things we’ve done, from the practice facility to the roster itself to acquiring Chris Paul, going and acquiring Jae Crowder, extending the guys that we have, that’s not accurate.

When you boil this thing down, it’s disappointing that we didn’t get a deal done. It’s disappointing that it was a five-year-rookie-max-or-bust, or nothing to talk about, and we just didn’t have real substantial conversations. And that (idea that a) lack of a deal is a signal that we aren’t committed to Deandre or interested in continuing, that we don’t believe in him, that becomes the narrative. But it’s the furthest from the truth.

What would say to the idea that most teams expect him to find max money next summer, and it might be a messier deal in terms of the structure, so why not do it now?

I don’t know what the market will be next year. I’m not projecting what the market will be next year. But it’s an issue about the five-year max — the five-year, designated rooke max, you know? That’s the issue. So if it’s a four-year max deal, it could be done, right? It could be done if you entertain it or consider it. But if you don’t, then the only thing you’re talking about is a five-year max deal. So we’re not talking about whether he’s getting paid. It’s whether or not he’s getting a five-year max.

[bwgood77]

Wearing a Payton jersey is pretty clever (Pay Ayton). I didn't see anything in the video that makes me think he's fine. He's just shooting and I didn't hear or see him laughing.
Doesn't mean anything but I'm just not seeing whatever Rankin is seeing.

I hadn't even watched it when I posted but now did and it's weird you say that because he is definitely the most animated and they only one you hear.

I can hear him a little but not the usual DA with a smile and all happy. Frank was into it more it seemed.
I just think Rankin overstated that everything is fine. Maybe it is, but that video didn't show anything to say either way.
It's simply DA doing 3pt drills or their own 3pt contest. DA wearing the statement jersey was the key thing to me. It's on his mind.

I wonder what happened to his middle finger. It's taped (might even be a splint). Probably nothing but that's the first I've seen it.

Honestly I think you are reading too much into things. Does anyone seem in good spirits from that video? Ayton does moreso than most, but it's still meaningless and Rankin probably saw a lot more than that to base his opinion on.

And the jersey thing...I think you may be reading a bit too much into it there. We are past the deadline so it doesn't matter and he always wears other's jerseys. He has always said he wanted to let his agents deal with that anyway.

[dremill24]

I dont really see how talking directly about it to the press helps anything. Screams insecurity and just opens you up to even more pointed criticism.

"It's between the front office and him/his representation. It didnt get done by the deadline, so he'll play this year out and we'll attempt to come to an agreement this summer. We're invested in him and the intent is to keep him a Sun for the future." Done, why feed the machine?

[BobbieL]

Bobby Marks is on NBA radio right now and said if the Suns did offer DA a 4 year max, there's a chance he may have taken it.

Says one concern would be, if they max DA, then they have 2 guys under the designated max, meaning they can't trade for another one if they wanted to (like Simmons for example). I don't get that since the Nuggets have 3 max guys.

He mentioned that Phoenix likely wants him to prove it since giving a max to a 3rd or 4th option can be dangerous.


Personally, I think they'll be willing to offer it to him if he has at least the same year as last year. Any improvement and it's done.

Yeah man I consider myself pretty knowledgeable on the CBA/cap and the max player thing is confusing. The rule is you are only allowed 2 'max dedicated players' at a time. The 'dedicated' player thing is specifically about raises (30%) and escalators is the reach all NBA teams.

What causes the confusion is how 'max' contracts are reported. A guy can get the max amount but not the 'designated player' part. This is the case with that Porter contract in Denver.

If the disagreement with Ayton was about him demanding to get a real designated player max then honestly I can see why the suns didn't jump at that because it does limit some things they can do.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

Amick had an article in The Athletic - he talks to Jones
Sounds like an organization decision to not give the Max for 5 years
was willing to go 3 or 4 years

But one point was again made, if you sign Ayton to this deal. - you cannot trade for another player under the Rookie Max as you would have three players on the Rookie Max. And if Ayton signs his deal, he cannot be traded for six months, post trade deadlein

I do wonder if the Suns are going after Towns. Or keeping options to go after Towns

[bwgood77]

One part from the Athletic piece is about the Shamet deal, I think mentioned as a possibility by David Nash, was mentioned...

Landry (Shamet on a four-year, $43 million deal that sources say includes $20 million in guaranteed money in the first two seasons, a non-guaranteed third season and a team option in the fourth season)

I still also don't understand IF you can give a 5 year deal without the DPE. Did Porter get the DPE? I thought only Murray and Jokic could have it..or does Murray?

Jones mentions 4 year deal...but I still don't see why you wouldn't want to lock him in as long as possible.

I think someone mentioned...some podcaster for the Suns mentioned that you can only offer a 5 year DPE in an extension, but the next summer you can offer a 5 year non DPE deal.

I think maybe the rational for that is that after this year it will possibly be known whether or not Ayton would even get the escalators before the contract is signed.

Why I think this is the case? Because Tatum signed an extension last summer...a DPE one and after he barely missed 3rd team All NBA it was talked about how it hurt him financially bad because he will not get the escalators. His new contract doesn't start until this year....so sounds like he now can't hit the 30%.

I personally think they would probably rather him not hit escalators and if they know he will stay at 25% and not 30% they might be fine. Because the difference between $172 and $207 isn't small...and the last two years after Paul is gone for sure are when the cost would get really high. Paul may even be gone by the 2nd year of Ayton's new deal if we don't guarantee his 3rd year.

A lot might depend on how Paul plays this year too. If they view a significant decline or injuries, they may have a good feeling they will not guarantee the 3rd year which makes the Ayton max more palatable.

[BobbieL]

One part from the Athletic piece is about the Shamet deal, I think mentioned as a possibility by David Nash, was mentioned...

Landry (Shamet on a four-year, $43 million deal that sources say includes $20 million in guaranteed money in the first two seasons, a non-guaranteed third season and a team option in the fourth season)

I think David IVPointPlay has Trevor Buckstein as a contact
He is pretty locked in on these contracts. I get some of it is "math" so he knows the yearly increases so can back into figures. But, in his article today, he did the math for a potential KAT trade between the Twolves and Suns.

[bwgood77]

One part from the Athletic piece is about the Shamet deal, I think mentioned as a possibility by David Nash, was mentioned...

Landry (Shamet on a four-year, $43 million deal that sources say includes $20 million in guaranteed money in the first two seasons, a non-guaranteed third season and a team option in the fourth season)

I think David IVPointPlay has Trevor Buckstein as a contact
He is pretty locked in on these contracts. I get some of it is "math" so he knows the yearly increases so can back into figures. But, in his article today, he did the math for a potential KAT trade between the Twolves and Suns.

I added more to that post above if you want to address that.

[bigfoot]

Totally missed by the Aytoneers was the two designated max-player rule. Jones definitely looking out for the future of the Suns' franchise.

Ayton and his agents were Max 5 or nothing by the Oct 18th deadline. They ended up with nothing and now get to wait until July 2022. DA better hope he doesn't have a major injury this season.

[BobbieL]

One part from the Athletic piece is about the Shamet deal, I think mentioned as a possibility by David Nash, was mentioned...

I think David IVPointPlay has Trevor Buckstein as a contact
He is pretty locked in on these contracts. I get some of it is "math" so he knows the yearly increases so can back into figures. But, in his article today, he did the math for a potential KAT trade between the Twolves and Suns.

I added more to that post above if you want to address that.

Good point - David also had a feeling the entire contract wasn't guaranteed. I get some of this is math - what he says. And some might just be common sense thinking. But he seems to have some insights. He was the one who had the 4 year Paul deal as an option for the Suns.

I am not sure how I feel about KAT for Ayton - because the defense would suffer. But I remember one trade the team didn't make with the Twolves as they didn't want to give up Amare for KG - and I think it cost them a title (Nash, KG and the Matrix would have been fierce)

[GoodBehavior]

Read on Twitter

?s=21

Would love if someone would post or PM this to me. Unsubscribed after they gutted their AZ sports coverage.

Spoiler:

James Jones gets it.

Any time a prominent player doesn’t come to terms on an extension by the deadline, there’s going to be a public discourse about the how and why the two sides couldn’t meet in the middle. And any time said player suits up for the Phoenix Suns, who are owned by the oft-criticized Robert Sarver, the decibel level on that discussion is going to rival a Suns home game in — oh, let’s just say — the Finals. You know, like the ones that happened there just a few months ago when everything felt so much, well, sunnier in the Valley of the Sun.

Before we get into the nitty-gritty of the acrimonious Deandre Ayton situation with the Suns general manager who spoke with The Athletic at length on Monday night, detailing the hows and whys of the choice to not give Ayton the max deal he so desired, let’s take a moment to acknowledge that unexpected part of what took place just a few months ago. The Suns, who didn’t even make the playoffs in the 2019-20 season that ended in the Orlando bubble, were up 2-0 on Milwaukee on the NBA’s grandest stage before falling short at the end. And Ayton, the 23-year-old big man who was taken first overall out of Arizona in 2018 and who took a massive step forward last season, had everything to do with it.

Contract complications aside, that part is indisputable.

But when it comes to the criticism that came the Suns’ way in the wake of the decision, Jones refuted the widespread claim that this was a case of Sarver being cheap. Above all else, he claims the Suns were open to discussing the possibility of a three- or four-year max deal, and that it was only the designated rookie five-year max that was completely off the table in the talks that clearly didn’t go well.

“We didn’t have real negotiations,” Jones said.

But Ayton’s agents, Bill Duffy and Nima Namakian, strongly disagree and were adamant in multiple conversations with The Athletic on Tuesday that a max deal of any kind was never offered even informally. From beginning to end, they said, the organization’s unmistakable message from Sarver on down was that Ayton wasn’t viewed as worthy of a max deal. In response, Jones said, “They know that a three- or four-year max was not an (acceptable) option for them.”

Ayton, who will now be a restricted free agent next summer when the Suns will have the right to match an offer that comes his way, has been vocal about his displeasure as well. Needless to say, this is not the most ideal way for a defending Western Conference champion to start its season.
There’s one element here which hasn’t been discussed publicly, but that Jones highlighted as part of the Suns’ thinking: If they had given Ayton the designated rookie max extension like they did Devin Booker in the summer of 2018, that move would have limited their ability to pursue stars on other teams who have already been given designated rookie max deals. Per the rules of the league’s collective bargaining agreement, teams can’t have more than two players on designated rookie max extensions. If they have hopes of adding even more star power here — and it seems clear they do — that factor does make some sense.

Yet Ayton’s representatives say they were never told of this rationale during the process, so one can understand why it would fall on deaf ears now and be seen, in essence, as part of a public effort to quell the criticism. What’s more, the prospect of landing a player of that caliber without giving up Booker or Ayton in return is likely far-fetched.

Either way, Jones — who is just four months removed from being named the NBA’s executive of the year and now finds himself in the middle of this uncomfortable mess — chose to share his side of the story in our conversation below.

James, you’re the guy who’s making these calls and taking a fair amount of heat right now, so tell me: What led to the decision to not max out Deandre and let this go to restricted free agency next summer? What are people missing here about what you guys decided to do?

I mean, obviously, we’re disappointed that we couldn’t reach an extension agreement this offseason. Deandre is important for us. He means a lot to us and was vital in what we did and what we’ve done this past season. A lot of what we’ve done since the playoffs — bringing back CP (Chris Paul on a four-year, $120 million deal that includes $75 million in guaranteed money), Mikal (Bridges on a four-year, $90 million deal), Cam Payne (on a three-year, $19 million deal), Landry (Shamet on a four-year, $43 million deal that sources say includes $20 million in guaranteed money in the first two seasons, a non-guaranteed third season and a team option in the fourth season), JaVale (McGee on a one-year, $5 million deal), adding those guys — was intended to make this group even stronger. All of those moves were to help (Ayton) grow, help the team grow, because we want a championship.

We know it’s important to us; it’s important to him that we continue to progress and we continue to develop and we win (a title). So when we talked about a focus this offseason, it was to continue to build this team. So for us, unfortunately, we are where we are (with Ayton). No agreement. We didn’t have real negotiations. You talk about conversations (with Ayton’s representatives, Bill Duffy and Nima ) — it was five-year, max extension like the other peers, the other former No. 1 picks, and that’s where the conversation started and ended. Anything less than a five-year max wasn’t something to be considered — not something to talk about. It’s evident. They talk about us having discussions on a three-year, four-year max (deals). Those are real.

So people are trying to figure out what motivated the move, and the question of the tax implications certainly comes up. Your team hasn’t paid the tax since 2010, I believe, so it’s probably a fair question. What message are you getting from Robert regarding the tax and the prospect of him eventually paying it if you guys feel like you’re still championship contenders?

We’re gonna pay it. I can tell you, if you look at our roster now, all of the moves we’ve made — from Chris, Mikal, Cam Payne, Landry. All those moves that we’ve made have been to continue to build a team — a deep team. So we’re gonna pay the tax (and) continue to build a deep team.

What about the locker room component here? You know locker rooms and chemistry and team dynamics, and Deandre has been pretty outspoken about his frustration. Does it concern you in terms of his interest level being in Phoenix long-term? He’s a very important piece to what you guys are doing. What’s the impact on that front?

I mean, ultimately we want the same thing, and we’ll find a way to get there. He wants to be here. We want him here. We’re dedicated to his growth, to his development. It’s the same as Day One. That hasn’t changed. The contract issue will have to be resolved another day, but our commitment to him and to winning, and his commitment to us and to winning, hasn’t changed. And so yeah, today we didn’t get a deal done. But we want to bring a championship to this city. We talk about winning. He’s about winning, and I still go back to — it’s just disappointing and unfortunate we couldn’t reach a deal or have substantive conversations around what that long-term future looks like. But we will again in the future.

What has the communication been like with Deandre?

He’s here, and I’ve spoken to him a couple times. But this has been a process with him and his representatives and us. … DA has just been working with the team. He’s been a part of it, part of the team. And look, like I said, I think it’s way more complicated than (most believe). All these things do become way more complicated, because they are personal. It’s the part of the job that’s tough. It’s the part of the job that puts stress on everything, but that’s what it is.

What about the general idea that Robert is being cheap here? That’s a reputational thing that has certainly been part of the discussion. How have you seen that perspective?

It’s inaccurate. If you just look at the moves we’ve made, it’s inaccurate. It’s just not (true). If you look at all the moves we’ve made, and the things we’ve done, from the practice facility to the roster itself to acquiring Chris Paul, going and acquiring Jae Crowder, extending the guys that we have, that’s not accurate.

When you boil this thing down, it’s disappointing that we didn’t get a deal done. It’s disappointing that it was a five-year-rookie-max-or-bust, or nothing to talk about, and we just didn’t have real substantial conversations. And that (idea that a) lack of a deal is a signal that we aren’t committed to Deandre or interested in continuing, that we don’t believe in him, that becomes the narrative. But it’s the furthest from the truth.

What would say to the idea that most teams expect him to find max money next summer, and it might be a messier deal in terms of the structure, so why not do it now?

I don’t know what the market will be next year. I’m not projecting what the market will be next year. But it’s an issue about the five-year max — the five-year, designated rooke max, you know? That’s the issue. So if it’s a four-year max deal, it could be done, right? It could be done if you entertain it or consider it. But if you don’t, then the only thing you’re talking about is a five-year max deal. So we’re not talking about whether he’s getting paid. It’s whether or not he’s getting a five-year max.

Sound disingenuous to me. James probably knows that Ayton and his rep will never accept a 3 year or 4 year max deal. So from a practical purpose, there was no real negotiation in the first place.

Saving the designated max in a potential trade scenario in the far off future when Chris Paul's contract is up, equally makes no sense at all. James can predict the free agency/trade market 3-4 years from now? LOL

[bwoolf2]

This Ben Simmons situation is why teams always have to be sure of the player’s mental capabilities before paying them the max.

When the Sixers paid Simmons the max deal I thought they would regret it but it was seen as a no brainer move at the time.

My guess is it's going to be similar with Porter jr.

[Slim Charless]

Stop it Ghost
Nobody is trading Ayton this yr at least, lest he pouts his way off the squad. This is business on the FO side. Only DA can make it personal. It’s what happens when one side refuses to negotiate. I’ll say again, I love the poker face the FO has.



And as for Shamet…. They really wanted this dude. Dont forget he was a PG in college and lead his Shockers to the elite 8 if I remember. Now we are potentially square at PG for a few more yes and may be then some. This is a good, versatile 4 guard rotation.

This off season reeks of Jones…. targeting a few guys, likely listening some to CP and(?) conservatively signing a few more…. holding fast to his nothing fancy basically boring plan. I don’t see Bobbie’s fingerprints on many if any of these decisions, just his thumbs up. Seems like a pretty good off season to me.


PS… Puff bringing the stuff, among others

So you see a cheap decision made from the cheapest owner in the league (maybe in American sports) and you think that this non payment was a Jones move?

LAWL

[King4Day]

Stop it Ghost
Nobody is trading Ayton this yr at least, lest he pouts his way off the squad. This is business on the FO side. Only DA can make it personal. It’s what happens when one side refuses to negotiate. I’ll say again, I love the poker face the FO has.



And as for Shamet…. They really wanted this dude. Dont forget he was a PG in college and lead his Shockers to the elite 8 if I remember. Now we are potentially square at PG for a few more yes and may be then some. This is a good, versatile 4 guard rotation.

This off season reeks of Jones…. targeting a few guys, likely listening some to CP and(?) conservatively signing a few more…. holding fast to his nothing fancy basically boring plan. I don’t see Bobbie’s fingerprints on many if any of these decisions, just his thumbs up. Seems like a pretty good off season to me.


PS… Puff bringing the stuff, among others

So you see a cheap decision made from the cheapest owner in the league (maybe in American sports) and you think that this non payment was a Jones move?

LAWL

I think his point is that Jones may have the longer term plans of the franchise in his mind.
If it's true that DA and his camp were 'never offered a 3 or 4 year max', it could mean Jones was of the mindset, "we couldn't offer it to them because they wouldn't pick up the phone if it didn't start with '5 year max'.
I'd still think we would have found a way to get that word to his agent though.
Someone is either lying or bending the truth to fit their narrative. One of the sides isn't telling us everything.

[Slim Charless]

Bobby Marks is on NBA radio right now and said if the Suns did offer DA a 4 year max, there's a chance he may have taken it.

Says one concern would be, if they max DA, then they have 2 guys under the designated max, meaning they can't trade for another one if they wanted to (like Simmons for example). I don't get that since the Nuggets have 3 max guys.

He mentioned that Phoenix likely wants him to prove it since giving a max to a 3rd or 4th option can be dangerous.


Personally, I think they'll be willing to offer it to him if he has at least the same year as last year. Any improvement and it's done.

Yeah man I consider myself pretty knowledgeable on the CBA/cap and the max player thing is confusing. The rule is you are only allowed 2 'max dedicated players' at a time. The 'dedicated' player thing is specifically about raises (30%) and escalators is the reach all NBA teams.

What causes the confusion is how 'max' contracts are reported. A guy can get the max amount but not the 'designated player' part. This is the case with that Porter contract in Denver.

If the disagreement with Ayton was about him demanding to get a real designated player max then honestly I can see why the suns didn't jump at that because it does limit some things they can do.

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Amick had an article in The Athletic - he talks to Jones
Sounds like an organization decision to not give the Max for 5 years
was willing to go 3 or 4 years

But one point was again made, if you sign Ayton to this deal. - you cannot trade for another player under the Rookie Max as you would have three players on the Rookie Max. And if Ayton signs his deal, he cannot be traded for six months, post trade deadlein

I do wonder if the Suns are going after Towns. Or keeping options to go after Towns

If they're not gonna pay Ayton, it's the only thing that makes sense.

DA, Cam, Saric for KAT and filler.

Our defense takes a massive step back but we'll score alot.