2021-22 Season/Offseason Speculation

[GoodBehavior]

I think it's a pretty strong signal that they don't view Ayton as a core in the long run. Floating a 3 year Max is borderline disrespectful. I think Jones know what he wants and he's signaling that he doesn't see Ayton in a Sun's uniform. All these "designated" excuses are to save face from angry fans. I don't think there was a "good faith" negotiation. Couple with rumors of trading him last year, I think the writing is on the wall...

The irony of this is Ayton's playoff performance masked a poor performance from Jones and Monty. It would have been an embarrassing first round exit otherwise. Besides Chris Paul forcing his way out of OKC, Jones and Monty has been terrible. People easily forgot that Rubio was downright putrid last year and ditto for Oubre. Without CP (and Rubio and Oubre on the team), I think Jones and Monty would be in the hot seat. So yeah, Ayton (and CP) kinda save their asses. Pardon my french.

And this doesn't taken into account other questionable manuevers. Saric's awful contract or Jevon's or drafting Smith instead of Halliburton. Shamet's deal seems to be along the same poor decision process. Nothing wrong with Shamet deal, but Shamet is the kinda of player you draft in later rounds to fill in your rotation. Good teams don't go out there paying that kind of money for a player of his skill set, especially with all the investments made already to fulfill shooting needs. His defense leave a lot to desire.

[darealjuice]

Yeah executive of the year James Jones has been terrible lol

[lilfishi22]

While you are right about the 2 and 2, Jokic is on his 2nd deal with (what you are referring to as rookie max) for two more years. This was his max deal signed after his rookie contract.

Could be wrong but I believe Jokic is eligible for a new deal next offseason so he'll be on the veteran super max when MPJ's designated rookie max kicks in. Technically MPJ isn't on the max yet, he's still on his rookie scale contract until next season. So right now, they have 2 designated rookie maxes (Jokic/Murry) and at the start of the 22-23 season the Nuggets would have 2 designated rookie maxes (Murry/MPJ) and one designated veteran max (Jokic). It's the only way I could see it working within the rules.

Eligible for supermax extension but he will still be on current deal next year when Porter is. I looked at this before responding.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/denver-nuggets/nikola-jokic-15393/

I'm outta ideas. It's clear in the CBA you can't have more than 2.

[TeamTragic]

Yeah executive of the year James Jones has been terrible lol

Seriously. Talk about not giving Jones any credit. I think at this point we should trust him.

Not to mention that year 3 and 4 for that Shamet extension is team friendly.

[GoodBehavior]

Yeah executive of the year James Jones has been terrible lol

Most people would rate him poorly before the playoff run. People were beyond pissed that he didn't addressing the front court depth issue. And the obviously the Smith pick. Cam Payne is his lone bright spot. And Chris Paul kinda fell on his lap. We would be stuck with Rubio and Oubre otherwise.

[dremill24]

I think it's a pretty strong signal that they don't view Ayton as a core in the long run.

This doesn't make sense to me. Why does he have to be overpaid on a max contract to be part of the core? Are Paul, Shamet, Bridges, etc. not part of the core in the long run?

[darealjuice]

Yeah executive of the year James Jones has been terrible lol

Most people would rate him poorly before the playoff run. People were beyond pissed that he didn't addressing the front court depth issue. And the obviously the Smith pick. Cam Payne is his lone bright spot.

LOL you realize voting for executive of the year happens BEFORE the playoffs right?

[GoodBehavior]

Yeah executive of the year James Jones has been terrible lol

Most people would rate him poorly before the playoff run. People were beyond pissed that he didn't addressing the front court depth issue. And the obviously the Smith pick. Cam Payne is his lone bright spot.

LOL you realize voting for executive of the year happens BEFORE the playoffs right?

Fair point, I am just talking about the Suns' posters on various sites I traffic in.

[bwgood77]

I think it's a pretty strong signal that they don't view Ayton as a core in the long run. Floating a 3 year Max is borderline disrespectful. I think Jones know what he wants and he's signaling that he doesn't see Ayton in a Sun's uniform. All these "designated" excuses are to save face from angry fans. I don't think there was a "good faith" negotiation. Couple with rumors of trading him last year, I think the writing is on the wall...

The irony of this is Ayton's playoff performance masked a poor performance from Jones and Monty. It would have been an embarrassing first round exit otherwise. Besides Chris Paul forcing his way out of OKC, Jones and Monty has been terrible. People easily forgot that Rubio was downright putrid last year and ditto for Oubre. Without CP (and Rubio and Oubre on the team), I think Jones and Monty would be in the hot seat. So yeah, Ayton (and CP) kinda save their asses. Pardon my french.

And this doesn't taken into account other questionable manuevers. Saric's awful contract or Jevon's or drafting Smith instead of Halliburton. Shamet's deal seems to be along the same poor decision process. Nothing wrong with Shamet deal, but Shamet is the kinda of player you draft in later rounds to fill in your rotation. Good teams don't go out there paying that kind of money for a player of his skill set, especially with all the investments made already to fulfill shooting needs. His defense leave a lot to desire.

Lets face it though. He wasn't worth a max before his playoff performance and this is a guy who was impressed with how far he had come.

So I can see just basing it as "not maxing because you only showed value in playoffs" as an ok stance, even though that's when many of the stars show their true value, taking it to another level.

But to me there are head scratching things like not trying to negotiate. The Shamet deal seems weird to me but maybe they are not concerned about a hefty tax in 22-23.

I still believe they want Ayton to be here and he wants to be here too.

I think the consensus of many who watched him play every game is that he wasn't worthy of the max. I'm talking hard core fans. But you do have a lot of the Suns writers (David Nash and his podcast buddy Max, Dave King, etc) talking definite max and expectations around the league for it.

So I don't mind it too much, though I think if they plan on matching anything or giving it next summer they should have.

I think he's worth about 5/$150, which is still a lot. They could have even told him they will offer him the same amount Booker got. 5/$156. Seems like saying something like that would give him or them something to ponder.

[bwgood77]

Yeah executive of the year James Jones has been terrible lol

Most people would rate him poorly before the playoff run. People were beyond pissed that he didn't addressing the front court depth issue. And the obviously the Smith pick. Cam Payne is his lone bright spot.

LOL you realize voting for executive of the year happens BEFORE the playoffs right?

Yeah, but this was all because of the Paul trade, which was kind of initiated by him and Monty. I think he was deserving based on the turnaround but I don't think it was his idea to go after Paul...but he did get it done. Anyway, I'm happy with most of the deals. There are some things that surprised me, but not overly so. And as long as Sarver is willing to go deep into the luxury tax next year, I don't really care at all how much they get paid...it's not my money.

[lilfishi22]

Yeah executive of the year James Jones has been terrible lol

Most people would rate him poorly before the playoff run. People were beyond pissed that he didn't addressing the front court depth issue. And the obviously the Smith pick. Cam Payne is his lone bright spot.

How? He brought in Monty, he brought in CP3, he kept Payne on after the Bubble and he brought in a plethora of solid veteran depth pieces that helped during the regular season and signed Craig who turned out to be pretty important to us.

The lack of front court depth was frustrating but ultimately, no Suns team have been back to the Finals since the early 90's and Jones was the architect of this Finals team. I think he's bought himself plenty of good karma. If we're a 1st or 2nd round exit this season and the next then yeah, he would have lost all that karma he earned but he's done a great job so far. No GM is perfect

[bwgood77]

I think it's a pretty strong signal that they don't view Ayton as a core in the long run.

This doesn't make sense to me. Why does he have to be overpaid on a max contract to be part of the core? Are Paul, Shamet, Bridges, etc. not part of the core in the long run?

Yeah, there will always be talk about stuff that is off. Look at the John Collins situation. I can't remember if he wanted a full max, but he got a lot less at 5/$125.

It will be interesting to see what happens next year if another team will offer him a 4 year max, but he really wants to stay in Phx on the Suns because he loves to play for Monty, loves his teammates and loves living in Phx.

Do we negotiate a max or offer him something similar or does he risk accepting it hoping we will match? We wouldn't want to lose him for nothing though so in that case we would want a S&T which he could also decline to sign if it's somewhere he didn't want to go and then he could play for the QO.

Just curious what the intentions are.

Probably just to keep options open and partly for motivational purposes.

[TeamTragic]

I think it's a pretty strong signal that they don't view Ayton as a core in the long run.

This doesn't make sense to me. Why does he have to be overpaid on a max contract to be part of the core? Are Paul, Shamet, Bridges, etc. not part of the core in the long run?

Yeah, there will always be talk about stuff that is off. Look at the John Collins situation. I can't remember if he wanted a full max, but he got a lot less at 5/$125.

It will be interesting to see what happens next year if another team will offer him a 4 year max, but he really wants to stay in Phx on the Suns because he loves to play for Monty, loves his teammates and loves living in Phx.

Do we negotiate a max or offer him something similar or does he risk accepting it hoping we will match? We wouldn't want to lose him for nothing though so in that case we would want a S&T which he could also decline to sign if it's somewhere he didn't want to go and then he could play for the QO.

Just curious what the intentions are.

Probably just to keep options open and partly for motivational purposes.

Ayton is on this team and part of our young core. We shouldn't blow this out of proportion.

Why do you keep bringing up Shamet when year 3 and 4 are not guaranteed?

[Slim Charless]

I think it's a pretty strong signal that they don't view Ayton as a core in the long run.

This doesn't make sense to me. Why does he have to be overpaid on a max contract to be part of the core? Are Paul, Shamet, Bridges, etc. not part of the core in the long run?

Ayton's more important than all of them.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Most people would rate him poorly before the playoff run. People were beyond pissed that he didn't addressing the front court depth issue. And the obviously the Smith pick. Cam Payne is his lone bright spot.

LOL you realize voting for executive of the year happens BEFORE the playoffs right?

Fair point, I am just talking about the Suns' posters on various sites I traffic in.

Well if you go by what's written on sites like this then all 30 teams fan bases think their coach and GM are idiots

No GM hits on 100% of their moves but IMO suns fans should be happy Jones is here. Especially after that last ass clown.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

[lilfishi22]

I think it's a pretty strong signal that they don't view Ayton as a core in the long run. Floating a 3 year Max is borderline disrespectful. I think Jones know what he wants and he's signaling that he doesn't see Ayton in a Sun's uniform. All these "designated" excuses are to save face from angry fans. I don't think there was a "good faith" negotiation. Couple with rumors of trading him last year, I think the writing is on the wall...

The irony of this is Ayton's playoff performance masked a poor performance from Jones and Monty. It would have been an embarrassing first round exit otherwise. Besides Chris Paul forcing his way out of OKC, Jones and Monty has been terrible. People easily forgot that Rubio was downright putrid last year and ditto for Oubre. Without CP (and Rubio and Oubre on the team), I think Jones and Monty would be in the hot seat. So yeah, Ayton (and CP) kinda save their asses. Pardon my french.

And this doesn't taken into account other questionable manuevers. Saric's awful contract or Jevon's or drafting Smith instead of Halliburton. Shamet's deal seems to be along the same poor decision process. Nothing wrong with Shamet deal, but Shamet is the kinda of player you draft in later rounds to fill in your rotation. Good teams don't go out there paying that kind of money for a player of his skill set, especially with all the investments made already to fulfill shooting needs. His defense leave a lot to desire.

Lets face it though. He wasn't worth a max before his playoff performance and this is a guy who was impressed with how far he had come.

So I can see just basing it as "not maxing because you only showed value in playoffs" as an ok stance, even though that's when many of the stars show their true value, taking it to another level.

But to me there are head scratching things like not trying to negotiate. The Shamet deal seems weird to me but maybe they are not concerned about a hefty tax in 22-23.

I still believe they want Ayton to be here and he wants to be here too.

I think the consensus of many who watched him play every game is that he wasn't worthy of the max. I'm talking hard core fans. But you do have a lot of the Suns writers (David Nash and his podcast buddy Max, Dave King, etc) talking definite max and expectations around the league for it.

So I don't mind it too much, though I think if they plan on matching anything or giving it next summer they should have.

I think he's worth about 5/$150, which is still a lot. They could have even told him they will offer him the same amount Booker got. 5/$156. Seems like saying something like that would give him or them something to ponder.

So the question I have is whether Ayton can earn that designated rookie max. The reason Jones gave that he wasn't offering that fat max was because it would keep us from trading for another player on the designated rookie max (I don't buy this) but wouldn't that be the same next offseason?

So can Ayton earn the designated rookie max or is the reason Jones gave just kinda fluff and in reality, the Suns just don't see him as a max player?

[darealjuice]

Most people would rate him poorly before the playoff run. People were beyond pissed that he didn't addressing the front court depth issue. And the obviously the Smith pick. Cam Payne is his lone bright spot.

LOL you realize voting for executive of the year happens BEFORE the playoffs right?

Fair point, I am just talking about the Suns' posters on various sites I traffic in.

James Jones has helped take us from 19 wins to the Finals in 3 years. We had one of the deepest rosters in the league last year and have only gotten better this offseason. He has Sarver knee deep in the luxury tax in the near future after a decade of garbage.

I wanted a backup big man and Tyrese Haliburton as much as any Suns fan, but it's just disingenuous to call him terrible. His job is to continually build stronger rosters, and he's done that. No GM hits on all of their trades, draft picks, and signings. We're in a great position for this season and don't have any bad money tied up in the future. Ayton will get his money assuming he continues to build on his playoff performance.

[Slim Charless]

I'm not even a big Ayton fan but it seems a bit dumb to not give him what he wants.

This.

I think Sarver would've tried to lowball Luka and Trae had we drafted them. This isn't an Ayton thing, this is a Sarver thing.

[dremill24]

I'm not even a big Ayton fan but it seems a bit dumb to not give him what he wants.

This.

I think Sarver would've tried to lowball Luka and Trae had we drafted them. This isn't an Ayton thing, this is a Sarver thing.

You're getting way bent outta shape over a concept that will never be able to be confirmed, doesnt seem worth it.

Take a lap, grab a drink, relax. Life isnt so bad.

[suns12345]

I'm not even a big Ayton fan but it seems a bit dumb to not give him what he wants.

This.

I think Sarver would've tried to lowball Luka and Trae had we drafted them. This isn't an Ayton thing, this is a Sarver thing.

I dunno, he maxxed out Booker straight away when even people on here said we should wait.