The Official Draft Thread 2: Judgement Day

7Insomniac · Post #581 » by **7Insomniac** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:37 am

sunskerr wrote:Any way to get golden state's pick? I read somewhere it's available. Could snag Waiters there.

Is drafting Waiters worth getting rid of Gortat, Morris, or Dudley?

IMO, no.

7Insomniac · Post #582 » by **7Insomniac** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:47 am

Kerrsed wrote:
PhxSuns85 wrote:Seems like the past 3-4 years we've took one of the brothers that entered NBA. Lopez, Griffin and Morris. So, something tells me we're on our way to pick another this draft. But who?

Zeller?

His younger Brother is better than him, and pulled out of the draft so he wouldnt knock Tyler out of the Lotto.

I was watching NBA TV's Draft Preview earlier and they had us taking Zeller. I nearly fell out of my chair. I wouldn't take him if we had a pick at #30.

sunskerr · Post #583 » by **sunskerr** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:29 am

7Insomniac wrote:
sunskerr wrote:Any way to get golden state's pick? I read somewhere it's available. Could snag Waiters there.

Is drafting Waiters worth getting rid of Gortat, Morris, or Dudley?

IMO, no.

Possibly...

thamadkant · Post #584 » by **thamadkant** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:20 pm

I was happy with Rivers at 13 but he looks like he is a top 10 pick... He has that Kobe like cockiness... To me is a taller Monta Ellis potential or a better Jamal Crawford dude is talented.

I was also high on PJ3... He is more likely an Odom type and we all craved for Odom a few seasons back... When he actually gets it... He can be beastly!!

Post #585 » by **rsavaj** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:01 pm

You guys should read these:

http://valleyofthesuns.com/2012/06/25/n ... aft-board/
http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2012/ ... agency-q-a

JMac1 · Post #586 » by **JMac1** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:33 pm

sunsfan88 wrote:
JMac1 wrote:The thing I don't like about Rivers is his delusions of granduer. He talks about James, Jordan, and Kobe being cocky and he is like them Just because you are cocky and compare your cockiness to alltime NBA greats, doesn't mean your game deserves the same praise as the above mentioned.

His problem is he believes he is as good as those guys and he isn't close, so that hurts his game. He believes he should be shooting, when he should be passing

When did Rivers say he is like them?

They asked him what he has to say for critics saying that his cockiness will be a negative factor for him in the NBA and he replied saying something like "Well I don't think being cocky is something that ruins anyone's game, I mean guys like Kobe, Jordan etc were cocky and they are great players"

He never said "Kobe, Jordan were all cocky and are great players so why can't a great player like me be cocky as well?"

That's exactly what he said...It is called inference. Gotta get rid of your bias when reading and it will help out that comprehension.

Look at what I said and look at what you said, same thing :-?

There are a lot of bums that are cocky too, he definitley didn't bring up those guys. Confidence and cocky are too different things. If you are good, it is confidence, if you are a fraud and stink, it is cocky (trying to exude something you are not!!!)

He was being asked the question because he fits the description of cocky, so he was saying those guys were like him and you can infer he can be like them (Cocky and good). Do you think he just wanted writers and others to think he was brash as they were/are and not as good on the basketball court :-?

He put a good spin on it, but it didn't work on me :wink:

The whole issue is, his cockiness (ball hogging) hurts his game and others. He isn't good enough to ball hog and cocky mean JACK if you ain't shh...hush yo mouth. Thank god the media ate it up and his daddy supported his son's lack luster performance at Duke. If he was so good, why not come back and be the first pick in next year's draft....maybe he is scared of a repeat performance like PJ3 and teams will KNOW for sure, their lying eyes aren't lying.

Why would a top talent come out and know that he was projected around 15-20?...oh it's rhetorical, because he knew he, daddy and the media would be able to convince everyone what they saw was just a mirage

Keep this post for future reference. EPMD "Don't believe the hype!"

Saberestar · Post #587 » by **Saberestar** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:59 pm

rsavaj wrote:You guys should read these:

http://valleyofthesuns.com/2012/06/25/n ... aft-board/
http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2012/ ... agency-q-a

Now, I think Kendall Marshall will be our choice.
I like it, but I want Nash to mentor him. At 6'4, they can play together at times too.

SunZel · Post #588 » by **SunZel** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:05 pm

This Kendall Marshall stuff is scaring the **** out of me...

JMac1 · Post #589 » by **JMac1** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:09 pm

If I must, let me pick this apart!!!

Kerrsed wrote:
2012 NBA draft: Austin Rivers has NBA-level talent, and confidence to match
Tuesday, June 26, 2012, 12:24 AM
Joe Freeman, The Oregonian

Critics have called him cocky, labeled him selfish and knocked his athleticism. But no one can belittle Austin Rivers' competitiveness and passion.: AND? what does that mean. If you are not competitive, you are not an athlete, no points there. Boston Celtics coach Doc Rivers was watching film in his office one day last year when his son, Austin, burst into the room fuming.

Austin Rivers had just lost a game of one-on-one to All-Star forward Paul Pierce at the Celtics' practice court. Never mind that Pierce outweighed Rivers by more than 40 pounds, stood about three inches taller and had roughly 1,000 more NBA games on his resume -- Rivers had built a 3-0 lead and was infuriated that he blew a chance to gain bragging rights on the future Hall of Famer.

"He walked in (ticked) and I asked him what was wrong," Doc Rivers said. "He said, 'Paul beat me. I had him, but I let him off the hook.' I just started laughing. He was serious. He was mad." I have heard this story a billion times. I beat my buddy in a game of scrabble and he threw the board into the ceiling, such drama. Poor little Austin Vomit pic here.Critics have called him cocky, labeled him selfish and knocked his athleticism. But no one can belittle Austin Rivers' competitiveness and passion. He grew up in a household full of athletes and big personalities -- most notably his father -- and was raised to strive for greatness. I got the point earlier., been done on 30 30 on Reggie Miller, Jordan, Kobe, Pete Rose et al

No one pushed him toward basketball or sports, but when your older sister is a volleyball star, your older brother is a Division I basketball player and your father is, well, Doc Rivers, you just kind of naturally walk that path. Austin Rivers has been studying NBA film since the days of VHS tapes and he's hovered around NBA locker rooms and mingled with the league's players since he was a boy. So did Ewing Jr. Jordan's son et al Exhale here Waiting to hear why his game stunk and he froze out teammates and how that will change at the next level..................

So as he moves on to the NBA following a legendary high school career and one all-Atlantic Coast Conference season at Duke, it's more like he's merely taking the next step rather than fulfilling some lofty dream.

"He's been preparing himself to be an NBA player pretty much his whole life," Duke associate coach Chris Collins said. "He's a very driven, self-motivated kid. He loves the game and he really wants to be a great player. He believes that's what he's supposed to be. And that's really one of his best qualities -- he believes he's supposed to be great." Again, what is different about this compared to all other athletes

But greatness doesn't come simply because of desire. Even with good genes and the benefits that come with being Doc Rivers' son, Tall Genes, Doc was definitely not the Julius Erving of the NBA Austin Rivers is on the cusp of being an NBA lottery pick thanks to good, old-fashioned hard work.

Growing up in Orlando, where his father used to coach the Magic, Rivers naturally gravitated to the minutiae of basketball at an early age. Like most of his friends, his playing career started on an outdoor hoop in the backyard. But unlike his friends, Rivers took things beyond a game of h-o-r-s-e or 21. And when he was done shooting in the backyard, he'd retreat to his room to watch hours of NBA games. Hell we here at RealGM watch more basketball than the scouts and coaches

He didn't just watch for pleasure. He studied players and their styles, starting with hometown favorites Tracy McGrady and Grant Hill before moving on to Dwyane Wade and, in recent years, Deron Williams, Derrick Rose and Tony Parker. Overkill And this started before the days of YouTube.

"I still have like 100 VCR tapes in my room," Rivers said. "I really love watching film. I don't know where that came from, but I can't tell you how many tapes of Dwyane Wade I have in my room. Just stealing moves, the way he plays the passing lanes, getting steals, his Euro step, the way he finishes, the way he draws contact. I know everything he does. Everything. (Last week in the NBA finals), when he was on a fast break, I knew what move he was about to do." Reapeat of the above paragraph...

Rivers placed a keen eye on the player's offensive moves and when he found something he liked, he'd head to the backyard or gym and practice it over and over. As a freshman in high school, after being awed by Wade's "Euro step" -- a tricky, dipsy-do side step around a defender on a fast break -- Rivers perfected the move and used it in a game. The first attempt didn't go so well.

"Nobody knew what that move was," Rivers said. "They called traveling. I had to start explaining it to refs before I played. I'd let them know I was doing the move, that it wasn't a travel and, eventually, they were like, 'Yeah, yeah, that's fine, Austin.'"

That was one of the few blunders in Rivers' prep career. He averaged 29.2 points, 6.1 rebounds, 2.2 assists and 2.0 steals as a senior at Winter Park High School, leading the Wildcats to back-to-back state championships. The season earned Rivers multiple national player of the year awards and the status as the nation's No. 1 recruit -- ahead of Anthony Davis, the presumed No. 1 pick in this year's draft.

Rivers had a successful, but not sensational single season at Duke, becoming just the third freshman in school history to lead the team in scoring (15.5 points per game) What did Durant avg and the seventh freshman in ACC history to earn first-team all-conference honors. But for his detractors, it wasn't enough. Probably because he had ONE block shot the whole season...not indicative of a top pick...ONE!?He had some highlight-reel moments, including a buzzer-beating three-pointer that defeated rival North Carolina in February.

But Rivers was not the one-man wrecking crew he was expected to be, and the Blue Devils flamed out in the NCAA Tournament, losing to Lehigh in the first round. Along the way, Rivers drew criticism for his on-court bravado and off-the-court confidence. Here we go, explain to me why this happened?

Many have called him cocky. Some have suggested he's uncoachable. and Coming from Duke Collins scoffs at it all, calling Rivers a "good kid" and a "great teammate." Oh don't believe your lying eyes and what his teammates say...they are just haters...

A mere mention of the "cocky" label makes the hairs on Doc Rivers' neck rise. What? That is my son, that labelwill hurt his draft stock, of course he isn't cocky, let me tell you why? If cockiness is a negative, he says, then all-time greats such as Kobe Bryant, Michael Jordan and LeBron James "couldn't play." Rivers said three different NBA general managers approached him last week and asked: "Who would make that a negative?" My point....Three of the greatest of all time, how does that relate to Austin...Monta Ellis is cocky and, why not use him as an example..oh that's right it hurts his game, because he ain't James, Bryant, and Jordan...just like Austin isn't thus Duke's first round exit. What did Curry do with Davidson again

"His last name is Rivers, so he's going to get every criticism," Doc Rivers said. and the PUB and the benefit of the doubt; I though his 65% FT shooting was the culprit and his asst/to ratio, and his lack of defense....and the fact that he was a highly touted player coming out of high school. Why is Perry Jones getting criticized??? More cheese with that whine coach? "That's the downside of being Austin Rivers. But I've always told Austin there's a positive side too. The stuff you hear may hurt you at the time, but at the end of the day it makes you tougher and it makes you a better player."

And what kind of player is Rivers? Collins said he's "wired as a scorer" not great? and will be an offensive force in the NBA from Day One. Doc Rivers said former NBA head coach Flip Saunders worked out his son recently and was blown away by his speed, ballhandling and shooting. I saw a quick first step and good ballhandling, but shooting? maybe he should be an And One player

"His strengths are clear," Doc Rivers said. "He's not a good scorer, I think he'll be a very good scorer in our league. When Flip worked him out, he said, 'Man, he can really put the ball in the basket. And he's competitive.' That competitive side will help him as well."

Ah, yes, the competitive side. That's something Paul Pierce learned a thing or two about last year.

"I'm still not happy about that," Rivers said last week of the 5-4 loss to Pierce. "He came in and he's Paul Pierce, so I used that as an opportunity. I said, 'I'm going at him.' I was going by him, getting layups, dunking, all that kind of stuff. I got up 3-0. And then he got mad. Paul started backing me down, doing his thing. Paul's 6-8, 200-something. Finally, he got me 5-4. I was so mad."

http://www.oregonlive.com/blazers/index ... alent.html

Okay, now why should I expect him to be great...Sorry dudes, after I read he had one block the whole season, that told me all I needed to hear about his competitiveness, c'mon one block :lol:

Be cocky all you want...as long as it is not on the Suns!

JMac1 · Post #590 » by **JMac1** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:24 pm

SunZel wrote:This Kendall Marshall stuff is scaring the **** out of me...

JMac1 · Post #591 » by **JMac1** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:27 pm

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/22 ... erall_Pick

Houston gets 18th pick for Buds.... :-?

Post #592 » by **rsavaj** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:35 pm

SunZel wrote:This Kendall Marshall stuff is scaring the **** out of me...

I don't know, I think he's a solid pick. Not going to be a superstar, but I don't think he'll bust at all, and you can't teach his kind of court vision.

Alex Laugan wrote:Interesting tidbits from Sam Amico in Ohio this morning
"• Also, the Raptors are suddenly said to be very open to dealing their No. 8 pick. One rumor has them trading it to the Rockets for point guard Kyle Lowry. Almost every mock draft has the Raptors selecting Syracuse guard Dion Waiters at No. 8, but that "could be a smokescreen," said a source.

• If Waiters isn’t selected by the Raptors, there’s a chance he could fall out of the lottery (top 14 picks) altogether.

• Washington guard Terrence Ross and Kentucky forward Terrence Jones are both climbing the draft charts after recent workouts, according to sources. The 76ers are said to be particularly enamored with Jones. "Depends on who else is there, of course," said one person familiar with their thinking."

Looks to me like Rivers is blowing right past us, and Ross just might as well.

On the flipside, its possible the month-long hideaway by Waiters just might work in the Suns’ favor after all, while Marshall and/or Moultrie might be available in the late teens/early 20s.

Perfect draft night (for me): Waiters drops to Suns at 13, then Suns buy a later pick for Marshall.
...
in this interview the lead-in to the quotes above about Marshall and Moultrie are very telling, to me. As I’ve written before, it appears that our front office likes to fall in love and doesn’t like to be jilted. They’d rather overdraft than love a guy everyone else wants and someone picks him before you get a chance (like Shumpert last year).

It appears to me the Suns love 3 players: Waiters (report of early promise, never refuted), Marshall and Moultrie (both got second visits).

Here’s the lead-in on the latter two, prefacing the quotes Jim provided above:
“I will give a nugget or two, but I want to be sensitive to the players and our process. Those guys are potential guys that can fit needs of ours.”

Then he goes on to say good things about each.

Comments section of the QandA article: http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2012/ ... a#comments

carey · Post #593 » by **carey** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:42 pm

I don't understand that quote about Shumpert. We could have had him if we wanted. He was drafted 17th and we drafted 13th.

7Insomniac · Post #594 » by **7Insomniac** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:43 pm

JMac1 wrote:http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/221697/Wolves_Acquire_Chase_Budinger_For_18th_Overall_Pick

Houston gets 18th pick for Buds....

This makes me want to sell high on Dudley. He isn't going to get any better.

Fo-Real · Post #595 » by **Fo-Real** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:46 pm

I like Chase!!!

Post #596 » by **rsavaj** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:46 pm

All the Schmitz scouting reports of players who will be around our range and lower:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Htk2w3HZTZ0[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fYlN-0VaUw[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbS62r2fP9k[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98-tc5nD65k[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZXmq1xRa4M[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCFFaOc6rho[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpkMsVfW5vg[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSlEx-m6B6s[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjV0IXg_Rjk[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBXMJ6bUnYo[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1eOsIaISxA[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BW-b_AoRSSA[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrbrarSldxo[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EB8wMWQobL4[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMNWeIR_VOY[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OM641vKWGOo[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDM_SsoLKeQ[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reqfYVdtmfA[/youtube]

Post #597 » by **rsavaj** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:47 pm

carey wrote:I don't understand that quote about Shumpert. We could have had him if we wanted. He was drafted 17th and we drafted 13th.

The Blabby was going to buy another 1st rounder, maybe in the 20s, specifically to get Shump Shump. Then the Knicks snatched him and they got really discouraged...because they're dumb and didn't even think about maybe taking MarShon Brooks or something with that other pick.

GrantHill · Post #598 » by **GrantHill** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:50 pm

After Houston's recent deal I can see everything in front of me!

Houston gets:

Dwight Howard
Hedo Turkoglu
Quentin Richardson

Toronto gets:

Steve Nash
#18

Phoenix gets:

Kyle Lowry

Orlando gets

Kevin Martin
Jose Calderon
Patrick Patterson
Marcus Morris
#8
#14
#16

JMac1 · Post #599 » by **JMac1** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:50 pm

rsavaj wrote: Not going to be a superstar, but I don't think he'll bust at all

That's how you end up with all role players

Post #600 » by **rsavaj** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:52 pm

JMac1 wrote:
rsavaj wrote: Not going to be a superstar, but I don't think he'll bust at all

That's how you end up with all role players

Well I don't see any potential superstars available at 13, other than Perry Jones, who just SCREAMS "Earl Clark 2.0"

I think we need to lower our expectations. We're not getting a superstar in the late lottery. If we can even get a starter, it'll be a successful pick.