Official Suns Free Agent/Trade/Transaction Thread

[Scutt]

I am sorry that you appear to be bitterly disappointed by the early success of the Suns this year. But if you had paid attention and listened to what was coming out of the Suns organization, they had no intention of laying down and losing games on purpose or tanking as some might refer to it as. No one was looking to be abysmal. They were willing to accept a poor record if necessary, but every person within the organization from the owner to the general manager to the coaches and to the players have said they going to everything within their power to win games this year.

Look at the comments of Kevin Durant about his first couple of years in the league - he perceived management was holding back on improvement and he claims to have been miserable. Players around the league take notice of this when it comes time to select the destination when they become free agents. Everyone looks for askance at teams who trade away veterans and play rookies who are not ready. These often they are viewed as a joke among the league's veteran players and management and these teams often spend many years rebuilding and frankly never get out of the doldrums.


As for the veteran players on the Suns that are getting some playing time, Channing Frye, Gerald Green, and P.J. Tucker, I am not worried about their playing at all. [b]All of these players are young enough to be valuable contributors to a championship contending Suns team 2-3 year down the road. [/b]


I have followed this team since its inception and I have yet to see version of it that did not start the season with the goal of playoffs and a winning season. When you are rebuilding, and you do not throw away important building blocks for some questionable goal of playing rookies who are not ready to play in the league. .

Ok, so you need to read my post again. I am not advocating "tanking" aka losing on purpose. I would just rather see us develop young talent, even if it means losing more games, then try to win every game possible with Frye, Tucker, and Green getting the majority of minutes in order to do so.

You really want to use the OKC Thunder as an example for your argument? I think most would agree that they rebuilt the right way. Durant might not have liked losing the first couple years, but that losing is what allowed them to get Harden and Westbrook and a trip to the finals. If OKC had Durant as their only star, they would been stuck on the NBA treadmill and Durant would have left to a bigger market.

Do not kid yourself, the Suns will not be contending for a championship in 2 years, more like 3 to 5 if we are lucky. Tucker, Frye, and Green will not be serviceable by then, and even now, you consider those three to be "important building blocks" for the Suns? Bledsoe, Len, and Goodwin are the important building blocks in my eyes and its not a "questionable goal" to have them develop.

[Scutt]

Wrong on so many levels and honestly just another pro-tank post.

1) Too short-sighted to recognized you have to show the value of your veterans to other teams if you want to trade them for assets. Green, Frye, Tucker, and Dragic playing at high levels only increases their trade value. Sit them on the bench and you've created two problems. First no other team wants them and second you create animosity within the team.

2) Contrary to your opinion there are not a bunch of guys all looking for contracts. The Suns have everyone wrapped up but Bledsoe and Tucker who are restricted free agents. Everyone else is signed through next year. Frye has a player option but why would he exercise it?? If he did all the better as it frees more cap room next year for free agents.

3) Very few free agents go to teams with losing cultures. Houston, post-Yao, never hit rock bottom like you are saying we should do. Do you recall a top-3 pick made by Houston recently? Dwight Howard signed with Houston which was a team at the middle of the pack last year. Would he have signed with a cellar dwelling team? Not likely!

4) True Suns fans are always in the win now mode. You can wish all you want for a top 3 pick but the Leastern conference already has a death grip on the 2014 draft. I'll never understand hating on winning just to get some ping pong balls. Its akin to buying Powerball tickets for a retirement plan.

5) Our new GM said if the Suns were provided the opportunity to acquire a star player we will do it. We now have assets (veterans and draft picks) to do such a thing. If we can make our team better now then by all means we should do so.

6) Why does a team have to be made up of players 25 and under? Take a few minutes and research the average age of NBA teams with championships. You'll find it is about 29.

You need to read my post again too. I'm not being pro "tank" by wanting to watch the youngsters develop. I don't want us to lose on purpose, I just do not want to see Frye and Green playing 40 minutes a night ALL YEAR when they are not part of the future of this team. The whole point of my post was a vent basically saying " the vets on our team are playing really well, I hope our GM is smart enough to trade them now, so we can still end up with a good pick in the draft this year." There is nothing short sighted about it, im thinking about the future.

I mean that in the sense that Tucker and Green don't want to end up back overseas, Frye wants to prove he can come back from his heart thing. They want to show they belong in the NBA and I would rather they not do it on a rebuilding Suns team, if you know what I am saying.

Face the facts, the Lebrons and Durants of the league are not coming to Phoenix in free agency. WE NEED TO DRAFT AND DEVELOP OUR SUPERSTAR. The Suns have always been good, but never good enough. We have never had the #1 pick in the draft, and we have never won a title, see the correlation? Look who has won titles over the last 30 years, its teams that draft their star player. Championships are won through the draft, and that is why the Suns are lacking one. For years our organization has been too short sighted to actually use the draft, instead they tried to rely on free agency all the time.

How can you not understand wanting a top 3 pick in this draft when the Suns desperately need a franchise changer? Id give anything to have a Wiggens, Parker or Randall on this team for the next 10 years, as opposed to overachieving and trying for the 8th seed this year. Why does wanting a franchise player, not wanting to be mediocre, and thinking about the future make me less of a fan?

The whole idea behind a rebuilding team is having a lot of young raw players who can develop, so wanting them to be under 25 makes sense. How many teams rebuild with a bunch of guys in their late 20's? None, because by that age in basketball, you usually are what you are. There is not much room to grow.

[JMac1]

Scutt I think your post nailed it.

[JMac1]

I didn’t want to start a new topic, but I want to vent so I am posing here:

I had high hopes in the offseason for the suns. We seemed to finally land a gm that was committed to rebuilding the right way. I listened and shook my head in complete agreement when the front office said they didn’t want to be a team stuck in the middle of the pack. If you are not a contender for a championship, you should be building towards one.

I was glad to see them ship off Gortat and Scola in the offseason, and I would be fine watching Bledsoe, Plumlee, Goodwin, Len, and to the lesser degree the Mori bros overachieve and get us more wins than expected. Yes, our pick would be worse, but that would mean our young talent would be developing, but this isn’t the case with this team. Night after night, I have to watch PJ Tucker, Gerald Green, and Channing Frye play 35 mins a night. Meanwhile, Goodwin has played surprising well in the few minutes he gets, but those are few and far between. Archie should be getting 20 minutes a night regardless of how he plays. The same thing for Len when he is healthy. The best experience is going up against actual NBA talent in a game setting, and don’t feed me the “rookies have to earn their minutes” line, on a playoff team, yes, but again, we are supposed to be a rebuilding team.

Those guys are not our future and them playing well all season to prove they can ball in the NBA does nothing but hurt us in the long term unless we trade them soon. I would include Dragic in this group, but we drafted him and I will forever be a fan, but he should be our only vet. When you play Dragic, Green, Frye, and Tucker (Guys who are all on the wrong side of 25) so many minutes every night, can you really call the Suns a REBUILDING team? Seems like a treadmill team to me.

Basically, I would love to see Tucker, Green, and Frye all moved to free up time for the youngsters, and if we get a good offer on Dragic, we should move him too. I am a long time Suns fan and those last two years of the Nash era were extremely painful, watching us gun for the 8th seed and ending up with 12th and 13th picks. The Suns are looking way too much like those post Yao Rockets teams right now. Of course the year there is a deep draft with 3 legit stars and possible franchise changers, the Suns decide to run and gun with a bunch of guys all looking for contracts and destroy their draft chances.

The funny part to me is Suns fans in all of this. In the offseason, when we were predicted to be abysmal, most fans embraced it and “hey we are finally rebuilding the right way, and this is the draft to do it in”. But now that we are a .500 team and look like we are going to overachieve this year, Suns fans have jumped back on the “win now” and be mediocre bandwagon. I’ve actually seen “fans” on here posting that we should package our 2014 picks for an impact veteran starter. Really?? I think we have enough of those as it is on this “so called” rebuilding Suns team.

This was an excellent post

[bwgood77]

I think there are great points by most everyone in this discussion. I think it has become ridiculous that someone like Chad Ford is advocating that like 15 different teams should definitely tank, because they need that star. Sure, people need stars, but if everyone followed his strategy, there are going to be 10-12 teams pissed off they wasted a season and made their players disgruntled and demonstrated to the league and free agents that they don't care about winning as much as getting high draft picks.

I think after the trade deadline, particularly if it is clear we are not making the playoffs, the front office and coaches will likely play the younger guys more and more.

For me, the biggest positive this season is the fact that the coaching staff has REALLY seemed to get so much out of players that previously were thought of as scrubs. Obviously for pro tankers, this is not a good thing, because you can imagine what they would do with players with more potential.

But you have to be happy about having a solid staff and four draft picks this season, regardless of where they fall. There are so many horrid teams this year, that even if we tried to intentionally lose, we might still end up with the 7th pick anyway.

Ultimately, I'm hoping karma rewards the teams that didn't intentionally tank this season and that all the pro tank teams end up pissed off.

[JMac1]

Well if Gordon Hayward keeps playing this way.......we may be able to get him at a bargain price next year. heck if Bledsoe hadn't gotten hurt and we were able to finish better, we'd be looking a the No. 2 seed right now..

All we need is a good spot up shooter who can put it on the floor when ran off of the 3pt line. Bledsoe, Dragic, Hayward, Frye and Plumlee...........with Len and Goodwin developing and Green and the Morri coming off of the bench. I'd take that going into 2014.

That is the best we can get for next year.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Totally understand and agree it would be awesome to land wiggins Parker or randle but as a glass half full guy there are positives. Honesak looks like he can coach. Bledsoe could be a difference maker. Len and Goodwin are still nice prospects. Plumlee looks like a rotation player. Goran tucker and fry look like positive assets. The morri are coming around. And call me crazy but green is interesting. Take all that and a ton of cap space and picks an the next 3-4 yrs could be fun.


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[bigfoot]

Wrong on so many levels and honestly just another pro-tank post.

1) Too short-sighted to recognized you have to show the value of your veterans to other teams if you want to trade them for assets. Green, Frye, Tucker, and Dragic playing at high levels only increases their trade value. Sit them on the bench and you've created two problems. First no other team wants them and second you create animosity within the team.

2) Contrary to your opinion there are not a bunch of guys all looking for contracts. The Suns have everyone wrapped up but Bledsoe and Tucker who are restricted free agents. Everyone else is signed through next year. Frye has a player option but why would he exercise it?? If he did all the better as it frees more cap room next year for free agents.

3) Very few free agents go to teams with losing cultures. Houston, post-Yao, never hit rock bottom like you are saying we should do. Do you recall a top-3 pick made by Houston recently? Dwight Howard signed with Houston which was a team at the middle of the pack last year. Would he have signed with a cellar dwelling team? Not likely!

4) True Suns fans are always in the win now mode. You can wish all you want for a top 3 pick but the Leastern conference already has a death grip on the 2014 draft. I'll never understand hating on winning just to get some ping pong balls. Its akin to buying Powerball tickets for a retirement plan.

5) Our new GM said if the Suns were provided the opportunity to acquire a star player we will do it. We now have assets (veterans and draft picks) to do such a thing. If we can make our team better now then by all means we should do so.

6) Why does a team have to be made up of players 25 and under? Take a few minutes and research the average age of NBA teams with championships. You'll find it is about 29.

You need to read my post again too. I'm not being pro "tank" by wanting to watch the youngsters develop. I don't want us to lose on purpose, I just do not want to see Frye and Green playing 40 minutes a night ALL YEAR when they are not part of the future of this team. The whole point of my post was a vent basically saying " the vets on our team are playing really well, I hope our GM is smart enough to trade them now, so we can still end up with a good pick in the draft this year." There is nothing short sighted about it, im thinking about the future.

I mean that in the sense that Tucker and Green don't want to end up back overseas, Frye wants to prove he can come back from his heart thing. They want to show they belong in the NBA and I would rather they not do it on a rebuilding Suns team, if you know what I am saying.

Face the facts, the Lebrons and Durants of the league are not coming to Phoenix in free agency. WE NEED TO DRAFT AND DEVELOP OUR SUPERSTAR. The Suns have always been good, but never good enough. We have never had the #1 pick in the draft, and we have never won a title, see the correlation? Look who has won titles over the last 30 years, its teams that draft their star player. Championships are won through the draft, and that is why the Suns are lacking one. For years our organization has been too short sighted to actually use the draft, instead they tried to rely on free agency all the time.

How can you not understand wanting a top 3 pick in this draft when the Suns desperately need a franchise changer? Id give anything to have a Wiggens, Parker or Randall on this team for the next 10 years, as opposed to overachieving and trying for the 8th seed this year. Why does wanting a franchise player, not wanting to be mediocre, and thinking about the future make me less of a fan?

The whole idea behind a rebuilding team is having a lot of young raw players who can develop, so wanting them to be under 25 makes sense. How many teams rebuild with a bunch of guys in their late 20's? None, because by that age in basketball, you usually are what you are. There is not much room to grow.

Over the past 30 years only three #1 picks have ever won a championship with their original team that drafted them ... Tim Duncan, David Robinson (only because of Duncan), and Hakeem Olajuwan.

Meanwhile the Cavs (4x), Clippers (3x), and Magic (3x) have had 10 #1 picks combined over 30 years and zero championships to show for it.

Finally stating we should be playing younger players who are clearly worse than veteran players, coupled with complaining that the veteran players are getting us more wins, and then drooling over Wiggins, Parker, and Randle is just another way to say we should be tanking. You can try to weasel out of it but facts are facts. You want to see the Suns play inferior players, lose, and get a high draft pick ... definition of tanking. Fortunately players, coaches, GMs, and real Suns fans will have nothing to do with that nonsense.

[lilfishi22]

JMac is right to the extent that we cannot completely rule it out. But I'd say it's incredibly unlikely. Almost as unlikely as Lebron signing with us.

Personally, I don't want to see him here. It cost the Knicks a decent TEAM to bring him to NY and he'll cost us that if he signs here. There's no doubt he's a great individual player who's proven he can at times carrying the team offensively on his own but is that the brand of basketball we want to be promoting? Do we want to build team where one guy takes all the shots and we defer to him whenever possible? Because regardless of what offensive schemes you run, Melo's gonna get his and he'll freeze out the other 4 guys on the court to get it. That's not what I want to see, that's not what the fans want to see and I don't believe McD has a shortcut-to-a-championship type of mindset.

I think the idea is to sign him in free agency, not trade for him. That way we won't have to gut our roster acquiring him

When I say it'll cost us a decent team, i'm not talking about trade. I'm talking about bringing in other veteran players meaning less PT for our young guys and changes to our offensive philosophy to accommodate Melo's offense.

It will cost us a decent team to bring him

[Frank Lee]

I have no interest in Heywadd at all. I don't really see what the hubbub is/was about.

In Archie I trust.


Furthermore to Scutt and Jmac.... you guys would not like to see a playoff run ? Its early, but its becoming more evident that another month of this kind of success, and this team will pick up a swagger. A young team with a swagger at the 7th or 8th seed is a dangerous one. I see your points about playing youngsters.... but you need to see the points about winning and do not discount the positive affects winning has not only on our youngsters, but on the Free Agents looking for new homes. Get comfortable with the way things are and enjoy the ride. Gawd... after last yr, if we would have back to backed our performance, I would have shelved these guys for something more entertaining. I have hibernated before.

[JMac1]

I have no interest in Heywadd at all. I don't really see what the hubbub is/was about.

In Archie I trust.


Furthermore to Scutt and Jmac.... you guys would not like to see a playoff run ? Its early, but its becoming more evident that another month of this kind of success, and this team will pick up a swagger. A young team with a swagger at the 7th or 8th seed is a dangerous one. I see your points about playing youngsters.... but you need to see the points about winning and do not discount the positive affects winning has not only on our youngsters, but on the Free Agents looking for new homes. Get comfortable with the way things are and enjoy the ride. Gawd... after last yr, if we would have back to backed our performance, I would have shelved these guys for something more entertaining. I have hibernated before.

What are you talking about? How did you infer I don't want to make the playoffs, because I want Archie to get burn?

You don't see the fuss about Hayward? He'd be our best starting SF by far, so that is the fuss. Like it or not, Hayward would be our best bet in a trade this year or FA signing next year. We are not getting a top pick and Lebron or Melo ain't happening (per this board), so what do you suggest instead of Hayward who is playing on a horrible team. I guarantee he doesn't want to go back to that Jazz. I know he doesn't have a choice, but the Jazz are so far away they might be willing to let him go with much of a fight.

When I make my wish lists, I like to make it realistic!

[Frank Lee]

Its a shame you can't embrace the notion that this team is playing to win and doing with their best players. The Horn tooted in the off season that playing will be earned in practice. You won't be crying if/when the FO packages up a player like Frye, Green, Tucker, or the MoBros to trade with will you ? You can't have it both ways.

You say you want to win, but would rather do it by playing guys who can't beat out their co-workers. So you want to win, but on your 'non'tanking, I'm developing youngsters' methods. Perhaps the FO is being cautiously cagey in bringing along these kids. I'm going to trust the coaching staff and FO on what they do with their personnel. Keep in mind, neither Goodwin or Len are going anywhere anytime soon. And the bottom line is, Goodwin can't beat out Tucker or Green for minutes.... just yet.

TheLAW, Bgood, and BFoot all posted very logical comments about this matter....

I like this Nutshell too

Totally understand and agree it would be awesome to land wiggins Parker or randle but as a glass half full guy there are positives. Honesak looks like he can coach. Bledsoe could be a difference maker. Len and Goodwin are still nice prospects. Plumlee looks like a rotation player. Goran tucker and fry look like positive assets. The morri are coming around. And call me crazy but green is interesting. Take all that and a ton of cap space and picks an the next 3-4 yrs could be fun.


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[Scutt]

Furthermore to Scutt and Jmac.... you guys would not like to see a playoff run ? .

I would love to see a line up of say Dragic / Bledsoe/ Morris/ Morris/ Plumlee and Archie, Len (if healthy) and Kravtsov coming off the bench to overachieve and make the playoffs. I would love that because I feel all of these players could grow with the Suns and be apart of the future. When Channing Frye, PJ Tucker, and Gerald Green start, I don't get excited. Those guys are stop gaps and not our future, why should I be excited to watch them?

[Scutt]

You say you want to win, but would rather do it by playing guys who can't beat out their co-workers. So you want to win, but on your 'non'tanking, I'm developing youngsters' methods.

I am saying I do not understand why Green, Tucker, and Frye get so many minutes on a rebuilding Suns team, I think those minutes should be going to Archie, the Mori, and Plumlee. By your logic, why did our GM trade Gortat? He certainly is more capable of being a starting center than Plumlee and is the better player. Why didn't we keep him, if you always go with the best player? I am not going to argue with you Frank, you posted in another tread that the Suns should go after Deng or Paul Pierce in the offseason.

It seems many of you want the Suns just to make the playoffs as soon as possible, while I would like to see them rebuild the right way and become contenders again, not 7th and 8th seed fodder.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Another positive is it sure looks like the suns finally have a competent gm. He turned gortat Dudley and Scola into Bledsoe 2 1sts green and plumlee. That's pretty amazing and gives me hope he can pull off some great moves this summer with the stockpile of assets.


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[bwgood77]

You say you want to win, but would rather do it by playing guys who can't beat out their co-workers. So you want to win, but on your 'non'tanking, I'm developing youngsters' methods.

I am saying I do not understand why Green, Tucker, and Frye get so many minutes on a rebuilding Suns team, I think those minutes should be going to Archie, the Mori, and Plumlee. By your logic, why did our GM trade Gortat? He certainly is more capable of being a starting center than Plumlee and is the better player. Why didn't we keep him, if you always go with the best player? I am not going to argue with you Frank, you posted in another tread that the Suns should go after Deng or Paul Pierce in the offseason.

It seems many of you want the Suns just to make the playoffs as soon as possible, while I would like to see them rebuild the right way and become contenders again, not 7th and 8th seed fodder.

I think Tucker and Green could be part of a future, as role players....or even Tucker as the glue/defensive guy, especially if we have big money going to two or three players...it's nice that he is cheap. Green is pretty cheap too and can hit threes. These guys also might me the type of guys to stay with the Suns for cheap over going elsewhere for more money, because they enjoy playing for the Suns where they got an opportunity.

Frye isn't really cheap, but I think the Morris twins already get enough playing time, and like I said before, it's nice to showcase Frye to the league, in case we could include him in a trade package. But I could even see Frye sticking around at a lot less money in the future because he loves the Suns and they already gave him a very nice contract before...if we can't trade him, maybe we sign him on the cheap later and he becomes the veteran locker room presence and is no higher than 8th or so in the rotation. Frye isn't really taking anyone else's minutes. Now if Len was healthy and Plumlee could slide to the four, that might be something to try at some point, but that currently isn't an option, and I trust the coaches to do what's right...they seem to know what they are doing.

[JDLAW]

Did you or did someone else write the following?

Basically, I would love to see Tucker, Green, and Frye all moved to free up time for the youngsters, and if we get a good offer on Dragic, we should move him too. I am a long time Suns fan and those last two years of the Nash era were extremely painful, watching us gun for the 8th seed and ending up with 12th and 13th picks. The Suns are looking way too much like those post Yao Rockets teams right now. Of course the year there is a deep draft with 3 legit stars and possible franchise changers, the Suns decide to run and gun with a bunch of guys all looking for contracts and destroy their draft chances.

Seems to me you are advocating trading players who are in their primes that are contributing to wins and urging the use of players that are not ready to play. The obvious result is to lose games and get one of the "legit 3 stars." I guess we have a different definition of tanking.

Players like Frye, Tucker, Green are building blocks for this team. They are role player and every championship caliber team needs role players. Mostly they are veterans who know their roles, accept them and are not jealous of the "stars" Miami has won the last 2 championships and one key reason is that they have very solid role players outside of James and Wade. Dallas has one star in Nowitski and 11 role players on its championship team. The Spurs draft and pick up players that have been discarded from other teams. At this point they have one star in Parker, one declining star in Duncan and 10 role players. I have been following the Suns since its inception and NBA for a couple of years before that. I have said it before and it bears repeating, There are many ways to build a championship contending team. OKC's blueprint is not the only way.

I am enjoying the Suns' success this year and I hope it continues.

[Frank Lee]

.... I am not going to argue with you Frank, you posted in another tread that the Suns should go after Deng or Paul Pierce in the offseason.

keep it correct scutt... I said i would not be surprised if.... there is a difference.
Again, I will trust the FO.... so far so good. You might enjoy this season a little more if you weren't so adamant about what you think the Suns should do.

[Scutt]

You are correct, I apologize for that, I should have double checked before posting that. Frank, you seem to be an Archie fan so I ask you this...

When we played the Kings the first night and Archie had his best performance of the season, putting up 16,2,2, and 2 in just 19 minutes, it didn't bother you that despite his good play he saw very little time in the 2nd half because we were so desperate to try and win that game? If we were really a rebuilding team, Archie should have been rewarded for his good play and allowed more minutes, but no, we have to play our 30 year olds even when the young guys play well...

[tviper]

Laker fan here. Wondering whether you see Pau as a possible fit for your roster. Easy swap for Okafor+Lakers 2015 1st. Not saying Lakers would do that, but it occurred to me that such a trade would save some tax money this year and allow you to try out Pau and make a legit playoff push. He still has amazing skills around the basket, leads the team in points and rebounds, and I bet a trade would light a fire, which seems to be somewhat missing this year. Haven't seen the Suns play this year yet, so thought I would come to this board to see what you guys think.