2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued

[Revived]

I think the Clippers are going to cut Teodesic, in spite of this article. https://www.eurohoops.net/en/nba-news/710392/the-la-clippers-are-keeping-milos-teodosic/ and the Suns are planning to sign him. They are just waiting for him to be available.

His deal is only partially guaranteed and they have too many players. He is a quality, wiley vet who shoots decently and is a passing wizard. He won't cost us much to sign.

Read on Twitter

[BobbieL]

A lot of this discussion is pointless. Daniels does not need to be moved. We would simply waive him, and if we do that it is simply to sign Sauce, who we can fit into the min exception. The only delay here is probably to see if Bev or another PG (Collison?) gets waived, because 4.4 mil is probably about right for Bev who would want a place to start so he can get a big deal next year.

But will Sarver waive him? Will he eat 3.2 to keep Shaq

It's a sunk cost and thus entirely irrelevant. If you're Sarver all you care about is who is the better player for this team long-term, and if the answer is Shaq you waive him. In no scenario whatsoever unless we morph into the Divac-led Kings would you include picks or take on long-term salary to dump a guy who makes that little. You see if somebody will give you something for him. If they won't, then you waive him. It is that simple.

Exhibit A: Kurt Thomas - he had Kerr use two first rounders to not pay the luxury tax

Exhibit B: there was a rumor that when the Suns traded Shaq for Ben Wallace, that the Suns could have flipped Wallace to the Pelicans for Tyson Chandler. A much younger Tyson Chandler. Buying out Wallace saved Sarver a boatload but I am still convinced Tyson on that team Amare and Grant Hill and Nash - would have won the title.

So its easy to say Daniels will be waived, its a sunk cost. I get all that. And I don't disagree. Does Bobby Sarver get all that? Sorry, until he proves it to me, I still have doubts how "all in " SArver is with making smart rational basketball decisions. The Sarver Struggle is real

[BobbieL]

I think the Clippers are going to cut Teodesic, in spite of this article. https://www.eurohoops.net/en/nba-news/710392/the-la-clippers-are-keeping-milos-teodosic/ and the Suns are planning to sign him. They are just waiting for him to be available.

His deal is only partially guaranteed and they have too many players. He is a quality, wiley vet who shoots decently and is a passing wizard. He won't cost us much to sign.

Read on Twitter

Boban - 7m
Milos - 6.3
Wes J - around 6ish
PBev - 5

pick a PG and one other player and move them for Tyson Chandler as Tyson can "go home"

[Gorilla Warfare]

I would be perfectly fine with Beverley or Teodosic. Teodosic has better vision but there aren’t many players with a more competitive edge than Beverley. We could use a tenacious on-ball defender to get under people’s skin.

[jredsaz]

Reasonable optimism Bfoot… yeah we’re better…

I don’t see a tank coming, I see a team that’s going to try to win but wont. So far, outside of the expected number one pick, this has been a thumb-twiddling off season

I think we are the Lakers from last season. Wins in the mid 30s. Not tanking, not in serious playoff contention either.

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[BobbieL]

I would be perfectly fine with Beverley or Teodosic. Teodosic has better vision but there aren’t many players with a more competitive edge than Beverley. Would could use a tenacious on-ball defender to get under people’s skin.

at some point the Clippers will have decision to make with their players
so as Week said earlier, plenty of time to worry about the final 15

so my posts where the team needs to do something with chandler and Daniels soon are somewhate premature - almost "premature rosterbation" if you will

but agreed, both Teo and Bev bring a skill set that I think would be great off the bench and if Knight "wets the bed" - can start.

[AtheJ415]

But will Sarver waive him? Will he eat 3.2 to keep Shaq

It's a sunk cost and thus entirely irrelevant. If you're Sarver all you care about is who is the better player for this team long-term, and if the answer is Shaq you waive him. In no scenario whatsoever unless we morph into the Divac-led Kings would you include picks or take on long-term salary to dump a guy who makes that little. You see if somebody will give you something for him. If they won't, then you waive him. It is that simple.

Exhibit A: Kurt Thomas - he had Kerr use two first rounders to not pay the luxury tax

Exhibit B: there was a rumor that when the Suns traded Shaq for Ben Wallace, that the Suns could have flipped Wallace to the Pelicans for Tyson Chandler. A much younger Tyson Chandler. Buying out Wallace saved Sarver a boatload but I am still convinced Tyson on that team Amare and Grant Hill and Nash - would have won the title.

So its easy to say Daniels will be waived, its a sunk cost. I get all that. And I don't disagree. Does Bobby Sarver get all that? Sorry, until he proves it to me, I still have doubts how "all in " SArver is with making smart rational basketball decisions. The Sarver Struggle is real

You are missing the boat here. We are not in the luxury tax. Thus, there is no "cost to Sarver" aspect here to sort out. Trading him would not save us any money at all unless we traded him to a team who absorbed him, meaning a team that has $5 mil in space and who would not send any salary back. In only that scenario would Sarver save money. The luxury tax multiplier is irrelevant here.

[AtheJ415]

For all those that love Bev, and I do as a temporary rental, I just figured I'd put it out there that his numbers are not that great, even on defense. He can't really guard multiple spots, so while he is tenacious as hell, he isn't as useful as I think many expect on that end. I love him for our current situation in the short-term, but he isn't a long-term solution or something worth trading an item of value (like a high 2nd or any of our 1sts or youngsters) for, particularly coming off of injury. So if the Clips waive him that's awesome, but I am opposed to a trade unless we can get him for a protected 2nd or something.

I actually think Shaq can be the better solution for a defensive PG long-term since his size and athleticism grant him more upside on both ends. He would need to improve his jumper obviously, which would decide how good he becomes.

[bwgood77]

I think the Clippers are going to cut Teodesic, in spite of this article. https://www.eurohoops.net/en/nba-news/710392/the-la-clippers-are-keeping-milos-teodosic/ and the Suns are planning to sign him. They are just waiting for him to be available.

His deal is only partially guaranteed and they have too many players. He is a quality, wiley vet who shoots decently and is a passing wizard. He won't cost us much to sign.

Read on Twitter

Boban - 7m
Milos - 6.3
Wes J - around 6ish
PBev - 5

pick a PG and one other player and move them for Tyson Chandler as Tyson can "go home"

They may still waive him. Today appears to be the final day, regardless of that tweet.

Per Spotrac

2018 Player Option exercised, $2.1 million guaranteed, fully if not waived on or before 7/15/18

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/los-angeles-clippers/milos-teodosic-24094/

I didn't see this posted from a few weeks ago, but perhaps it was...

Here are Kokoskov’s full comments on Teodosic: “I think all the best about Milos, he is my friend and we had the opportunity to meet here. He is basketball legend. These are the names we take a look at when it comes to free agents, but of course, everything is far from a decision. What I can say is that Milos is absolutely an NBA player. He has done a lot both at the level of the (Serbian) national team and at the EuroLeague level, so his path now is the USA – he had a good season and certainly is one of the names we [Suns] discuss.”

https://www.eurohoops.net/en/nba-news/702574/milos-teodosic-among-players-considered-by-the-phoenix-suns/

[Dambo]

Im happy with either Milos or PatBev..hopefully McD understands we need one of them.

[BobbieL]

It's a sunk cost and thus entirely irrelevant. If you're Sarver all you care about is who is the better player for this team long-term, and if the answer is Shaq you waive him. In no scenario whatsoever unless we morph into the Divac-led Kings would you include picks or take on long-term salary to dump a guy who makes that little. You see if somebody will give you something for him. If they won't, then you waive him. It is that simple.

Exhibit A: Kurt Thomas - he had Kerr use two first rounders to not pay the luxury tax

Exhibit B: there was a rumor that when the Suns traded Shaq for Ben Wallace, that the Suns could have flipped Wallace to the Pelicans for Tyson Chandler. A much younger Tyson Chandler. Buying out Wallace saved Sarver a boatload but I am still convinced Tyson on that team Amare and Grant Hill and Nash - would have won the title.

So its easy to say Daniels will be waived, its a sunk cost. I get all that. And I don't disagree. Does Bobby Sarver get all that? Sorry, until he proves it to me, I still have doubts how "all in " SArver is with making smart rational basketball decisions. The Sarver Struggle is real

You are missing the boat here. We are not in the luxury tax. Thus, there is no "cost to Sarver" aspect here to sort out. Trading him would not save us any money at all unless we traded him to a team who absorbed him, meaning a team that has $5 mil in space and who would not send any salary back. In only that scenario would Sarver save money. The luxury tax multiplier is irrelevant here.

That is a very good point. Since they were under the cap and well under at the start of free agency - they can NOT get close to the luxury tax. I think I figured out - if they release say Daniels and Chandler or Dudley and sign Williams and use the 4.4m exception - they will still only - cash wise - be about $6.5-7m over the current cap. No where close to lux tax territory.

[BobbieL]

Read on Twitter

Boban - 7m
Milos - 6.3
Wes J - around 6ish
PBev - 5

pick a PG and one other player and move them for Tyson Chandler as Tyson can "go home"

They may still waive him. Today appears to be the final day, regardless of that tweet.

Per Spotrac

2018 Player Option exercised, $2.1 million guaranteed, fully if not waived on or before 7/15/18

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/los-angeles-clippers/milos-teodosic-24094/

I didn't see this posted from a few weeks ago, but perhaps it was...

Here are Kokoskov’s full comments on Teodosic: “I think all the best about Milos, he is my friend and we had the opportunity to meet here. He is basketball legend. These are the names we take a look at when it comes to free agents, but of course, everything is far from a decision. What I can say is that Milos is absolutely an NBA player. He has done a lot both at the level of the (Serbian) national team and at the EuroLeague level, so his path now is the USA – he had a good season and certainly is one of the names we [Suns] discuss.”

https://www.eurohoops.net/en/nba-news/702574/milos-teodosic-among-players-considered-by-the-phoenix-suns/

BW - this quote was posted and some on here - and I thought it too- suggested it was tampering as it was Pre 7/1 and Milos was still under contract.

My thinking was hopefully the NBA League Office realized that was a unique interview: first International coach of an NBA team talking to media from his country about a player from that country - Serbia. I would hope the NBA would allow a bit of latitude.

[jcsunsfan]

They simplest way is for Sarver to give McD the go ahead to waive Daniels outright. Sarver eats his $3.2M contract. We'd still be over the cap, just barely. Then use bi-annual or non-taxpayer mid-level exception to sign someone else for one year. That's like $3.3M or $8.2M to sign another vet.

Pretty sure the Suns only have the 4.4m exception since they were well under the cap to start free agency.


Sarver can still waive Daniels to open a roster spot. I think we all are thinking Shaq and Reed will be kept, hence the need for a spot if the 4.4 exception is used


I was jacking around with capulator - if the thunder traded for Daniels Chandler and Dudley for melo, they would save like 8m - stretching the three guys as opposed to just stretching Melo because of lower salaries for the three compared to melo Granted they might buyout and stretch melo which saves them money too

Granted they have no assets to do that but it would be away for the suns to clear three roster spots if they wanted

Suns could do Dudley and Chandler straight up for Anthony and then stretch those two. The Thunder would reduce their tax bill from $150 mil to $47mil. Question is would we want Carmelo at PF for one year and would he want to play here and waive his no trade clause?

Why? What good would Melo be on this team?


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[Waylay13]

Pretty sure the Suns only have the 4.4m exception since they were well under the cap to start free agency.


Sarver can still waive Daniels to open a roster spot. I think we all are thinking Shaq and Reed will be kept, hence the need for a spot if the 4.4 exception is used


I was jacking around with capulator - if the thunder traded for Daniels Chandler and Dudley for melo, they would save like 8m - stretching the three guys as opposed to just stretching Melo because of lower salaries for the three compared to melo Granted they might buyout and stretch melo which saves them money too

Granted they have no assets to do that but it would be away for the suns to clear three roster spots if they wanted

Suns could do Dudley and Chandler straight up for Anthony and then stretch those two. The Thunder would reduce their tax bill from $150 mil to $47mil. Question is would we want Carmelo at PF for one year and would he want to play here and waive his no trade clause?

Why? What good would Melo be on this team?


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There are not many players that I would want less then Melo. His time is done and he should be shipped to the glue factory just find some use for him.

[BobbieL]

Pretty sure the Suns only have the 4.4m exception since they were well under the cap to start free agency.


Sarver can still waive Daniels to open a roster spot. I think we all are thinking Shaq and Reed will be kept, hence the need for a spot if the 4.4 exception is used


I was jacking around with capulator - if the thunder traded for Daniels Chandler and Dudley for melo, they would save like 8m - stretching the three guys as opposed to just stretching Melo because of lower salaries for the three compared to melo Granted they might buyout and stretch melo which saves them money too

Granted they have no assets to do that but it would be away for the suns to clear three roster spots if they wanted

Suns could do Dudley and Chandler straight up for Anthony and then stretch those two. The Thunder would reduce their tax bill from $150 mil to $47mil. Question is would we want Carmelo at PF for one year and would he want to play here and waive his no trade clause?

Why? What good would Melo be on this team?


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When I suggested that move, and I included Daniels - it was to waive, buyout Anthony which means three rosters spots open --if the team were trying to move on from all three players and didn't want to just "waive them". The deal above does save OKC extra 8m - but what is in it for the Suns to only have two roster spots taken at the cost of $4m of extra salary. I added Daniels because all three save the Thunder about 5m total but it opens three places on the roster for - maybe the following:

1) Big Sauce
2) maybe a PG with the 4.4m exception
3) another player looking to make the veteran minimum.

It was a long shot when I suggested it . Now the Thunder might be open to the 3:1 trade for this reason - if they value Jared Dudley

If the Thunder just stretch Anthony - it saves them $113m dollars
If the Thunder traded Anthony for Dudley, Chandler and Daniels and stretch all three - it saves them $117m
But if the Thunder wanted to keep Dudley - it would cost them $40m - but do they value Dudley as a bench player, meaning they save 77m. If they valued say Daniels for his shooting and waived the other team, savings would be $105m or so.

Suns like I said, would get three roster spots back for $1.1m. And if Anthony took a buyout, probably would make that up pretty easily. And Carmelo Anthony would never even set foot in Phoenix, fly over airspace, etc.

[KLEON]

Can't believe the Bulls released Paul Zipser. Very talented player who can shoot the lights out of the ball. McD should make space for this guy

[BobbieL]

Can't believe the Bulls released Paul Zipser. Very talented player who can shoot the lights out of the ball. McD should make space for this guy

Thats the reason I kind of kicked around the 3:1 Melo deal - there could be players out there for very cheap and the Suns could sign them. The 4.4m exception - pretty sure that can be split up too - I know they split the MLE for players. Like Swaggy P was half the MLE.

[bwgood77]

Teodosic not waived so fully guaranteed... https://www.clipsnation.com/2018/7/15/17575068/milos-teodosics-contract-is-now-fully-guaranteed-for-the-2018-2019-season-clippers

[lilfishi22]

Teodosic not waived so fully guaranteed... https://www.clipsnation.com/2018/7/15/17575068/milos-teodosics-contract-is-now-fully-guaranteed-for-the-2018-2019-season-clippers

Trade chip?

[JohnWall2]

Okafor still hasn't been picked up by any team yet

And lets hope we don't go anywhere near him.