P.J. Tucker

[ATTL]

Is PJ a better defender than Bender?
We know bender is a better passer, longer, younger, will be on our team next year, shot isn't dropping right now but should be a better shooter.
Showcasing PJ for a trade?

[bwgood77]

Is PJ a better defender than Bender?
We know bender is a better passer, longer, younger, will be on our team next year, shot isn't dropping right now but should be a better shooter.
Showcasing PJ for a trade?

Bender has taken almost half his shots from 3, is shooting 40% from 3 and 44.4% overall, while Tucker is shooting 20% from 3 and 36.4% overall.

[LukasBMW]

PJ is in the last year of his contract. With Dudley signed for 2 more years and our youngsters showing promise, I really doubt that we ask PJ to come back.

I love love love his hustle, but let's be honest, the guy just isn't very good.

I bet we wouldn't even get a late first rounder for him last year and that is why we didn't end up moving him. If we could somehow get a late 1st rounder for him this year, I'd be all about it. Give PJ a chance to win for the first time in his career and we get another asset back.

[ATTL]

Is PJ a better defender than Bender?
We know bender is a better passer, longer, younger, will be on our team next year, shot isn't dropping right now but should be a better shooter.
Showcasing PJ for a trade?

Bender has taken almost half his shots from 3, is shooting 40% from 3 and 44.4% overall, while Tucker is shooting 20% from 3 and 36.4% overall.

So it has to be that Watson see's PJ as a superior defender since Bender is better at everything else or because tucker is a vet.

[lilfishi22]

I love what I've seen from Bender, especially on the defensive end. He's a step slow at times (still getting used to NBA pace) but he's shown good instincts on defense. He's switch out on PnR is excellent, he's got surprisingly good fundamentals when guarding wings and his weak side defensive awareness solid for a rookie. I definitely want to see him get more minutes

I still think PJ has value on this team. Does he need to play as many minutes as he does? Probably not and I do think he's lost a step defensively. But his hustle is still there, his minuts and usage rate is where it should be (13mpg and usage rate is 2nd lowest on the team and lowest in his career) and while he's not the Harden stopper he was a couple seasons ago, he's still a solid defensive player. He's got great fundamentals and awareness and he's one of our leaders from a defensive and energy standpoint.

If we moved him for something of value and open up minutes for Chriss and Bender, I'm all for it. I wouldn't move him for nothing less value than he's worth though.

[bwgood77]

I love what I've seen from Bender, especially on the defensive end. He's a step slow at times (still getting used to NBA pace) but he's shown good instincts on defense. He's switch out on PnR is excellent, he's got surprisingly good fundamentals when guarding wings and his weak side defensive awareness solid for a rookie. I definitely want to see him get more minutes

I still think PJ has value on this team. Does he need to play as many minutes as he does? Probably not and I do think he's lost a step defensively. But his hustle is still there, his minuts and usage rate is where it should be (13mpg and usage rate is 2nd lowest on the team and lowest in his career) and while he's not the Harden stopper he was a couple seasons ago, he's still a solid defensive player. He's got great fundamentals and awareness and he's one of our leaders from a defensive and energy standpoint.

If we moved him for something of value and open up minutes for Chriss and Bender, I'm all for it. I wouldn't move him for nothing less value than he's worth though.

I really hope we are playing him so much primarily to build up value though because competing to win, while it is nice to get guys like Booker and Warren some wins and contributions towards wins under their belt, I don't want to play Tucker too much at the expense of a guy like Bender.

Having said that, before the season I didn't expect Bender to play much, if at all, but I expected about the same for Chriss, so I am not sure Chriss is deserving of THAT many more minutes since Bender is better at many things, if not most things outside of finishing and perhaps rebounding.

[RaisingArizona]

I don't understand the Tucker hate here. Then again, most of you probably are basing this off of the box scores.

Look at you, so young and naive

[lilfishi22]

I really hope we are playing him so much primarily to build up value though because competing to win, while it is nice to get guys like Booker and Warren some wins and contributions towards wins under their belt, I don't want to play Tucker too much at the expense of a guy like Bender.

Having said that, before the season I didn't expect Bender to play much, if at all, but I expected about the same for Chriss, so I am not sure Chriss is deserving of THAT many more minutes since Bender is better at many things, if not most things outside of finishing and perhaps rebounding.

What I don't understand is the complaint that he plays too much. I agree we can scale it back a bit but he's playing 13mpg. Even if you halve the time he plays, that's still only 6mpg you might give to Bender. I just don't think he's the problem when it comes to Bender not getting as many minutes as we'd like. Maybe it's a trust issue with Watson or maybe the match ups haven't been favourable but PJ isn't the reason.

[bwgood77]

I really hope we are playing him so much primarily to build up value though because competing to win, while it is nice to get guys like Booker and Warren some wins and contributions towards wins under their belt, I don't want to play Tucker too much at the expense of a guy like Bender.

Having said that, before the season I didn't expect Bender to play much, if at all, but I expected about the same for Chriss, so I am not sure Chriss is deserving of THAT many more minutes since Bender is better at many things, if not most things outside of finishing and perhaps rebounding.

What I don't understand is the complaint that he plays too much. I agree we can scale it back a bit but he's playing 13mpg. Even if you halve the time he plays, that's still only 6mpg you might give to Bender. I just don't think he's the problem when it comes to Bender not getting as many minutes as we'd like. Maybe it's a trust issue with Watson or maybe the match ups haven't been favourable but PJ isn't the reason.

Well the discussion about his time taking away from Bender is more from the last two games when Bender has either not played or played extremely limited minutes. P.J. was still coming off of injury and didn't play much the first few games, but played almost 27 against the Clippers and over 20 last night. That's not something I want to see continue. Cut it in half and give 10-14 to both, and that's fine with me. And hopefully trade him mid season and give 15-20 to Bender.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/tuckepj01/gamelog/2017

[lilfishi22]

Yeah I'm just not on board with the narative that PJ playing (even 13mpg and the occasional 20+min) is a detriment to Bender's development. He's already taken on a smaller role (less minutes and coming off the bench) and he's not having a cry about his minutes so he's everything an NBA pro should be. I mean, we are paying him $5m a year to play. It's up to Bender to prove he's deserving of minutes over Dudley, Warren, PJ and Booker (he played some 3).

Yet PJ still gets an unwarranted amount of criticism especially in regards to Bender's development.

[DRK]

I dont see how anyone who has watched the games this year can confidently say that PJ has played to a level that justifies his playing time over Bender.

[bigfoot]

KEEP

At least three Suns coaches have recognized the value of PJ Tucker. Gentry, Horny, and now Watson. He is certainly not the perfect player but he brings heart and grit. I guarantee Tucker gets at least a two year $20M offer next year ($10M per year) from some team. That's bare minimum without a doubt. He will likely get more.

The big reason to keep him is the Suns need to change the revolving door culture. In the past McD has touted his philosophy of gathering assets. Too me that goes against Watson's philosophy of family. The Suns need to do some damage control so that free agents will take a serious look at the team. Constantly moving and trading away players doesn't help the cause.

Can we get a 1st round pick for Tucker? Most certainly we can send him to a contending team and get a late pick (27-30). We've saw how Archie worked out. Then we have our own picks, the two Miami picks, and boatload of current young players do we really need more picks? You have to ask if the goodwill of keeping him on and possibly getting a discount to resign him next year would be worth the damage done by a trade.

[PackSuns]

In regards to Bender and PJ. We don't know what happens in practice (at least I don't ) and that is what usually dictates PT. Last year it didn't from what I have heard.

[lilfishi22]

Tucker should get PT because he has experience and he's been paid to be productive. His 10-15mpg is about right for a vet. It isn't like he's expected to be playing 30mpg like he was in the last few seasons. We've more than halved his minutes, he's taking less shots, he's rebounding at the same rate and he's still out there bringing the energy. If anything, the reason why Bender isn't playing is because Chriss is getting decent minutes at the 4 and TJ is playing so damn well he's at 36mpg.

FWIW, Bender has been playing the majority of his minutes at the 4 and a bit at the 5. Has nothing to do with PJ backing up TJ

[blacksun]

Tucker should get PT because he has experience and he's been paid to be productive. His 10-15mpg is about right for a vet. It isn't like he's expected to be playing 30mpg like he was in the last few seasons. We've more than halved his minutes, he's taking less shots, he's rebounding at the same rate and he's still out there bringing the energy. If anything, the reason why Bender isn't playing is because Chriss is getting decent minutes at the 4 and TJ is playing so damn well he's at 36mpg.

FWIW, Bender has been playing the majority of his minutes at the 4 and a bit at the 5. Has nothing to do with PJ backing up TJ

I see your argument but I disagree. Not to disregard your points, but PJ's shots and rebounding literally doesnt matter coz were not even contending for a playoff spot this year anyway. If his 2points/3rebs per 13 mins comes at a loss, then whats the point? If we play Bender, at least we can try to build something with him. Plus i think Bender can easily get those numbers if he plays PJ's minutes instead. And at least from the games ive seen, he doesnt bring much energy these days compared to before. As for the minutes, we can easily accommodate a four man rotation of Warren, Chriss, Dudley, and Bender for the two forward spots. Add that to the fact that he has his bonehead plays every now and then, and that Bender seems to be a high IQ player in comparison, then I think it should be an easy decision.

As to why they havent done it yet, it could be that theyre trying to build up PJ's value, or maybe they want Dragan to "earn" his minutes. But more likely, they probably dont think that Bender is ready, to which i disagree completely. Booker wouldnt have gotten to the All-NBA first team if they brought him along slowly, which they probably would have done if Bled and Knight didnt get injured.

At the end of the day, playing a PJ Tucker over your freshly-minted, high-ceiling, 4th overall pick, its bad look. Just my two cents.

[LacosteM]

I love what I've seen from Bender, especially on the defensive end. He's a step slow at times (still getting used to NBA pace) but he's shown good instincts on defense. He's switch out on PnR is excellent, he's got surprisingly good fundamentals when guarding wings and his weak side defensive awareness solid for a rookie. I definitely want to see him get more minutes

I still think PJ has value on this team. Does he need to play as many minutes as he does? Probably not and I do think he's lost a step defensively. But his hustle is still there, his minuts and usage rate is where it should be (13mpg and usage rate is 2nd lowest on the team and lowest in his career) and while he's not the Harden stopper he was a couple seasons ago, he's still a solid defensive player. He's got great fundamentals and awareness and he's one of our leaders from a defensive and energy standpoint.

If we moved him for something of value and open up minutes for Chriss and Bender, I'm all for it. I wouldn't move him for nothing less value than he's worth though.

I really hope we are playing him so much primarily to build up value though because competing to win, while it is nice to get guys like Booker and Warren some wins and contributions towards wins under their belt, I don't want to play Tucker too much at the expense of a guy like Bender.

Having said that, before the season I didn't expect Bender to play much, if at all, but I expected about the same for Chriss, so I am not sure Chriss is deserving of THAT many more minutes since Bender is better at many things, if not most things outside of finishing and perhaps rebounding.

I guess Watson thinks Chriss is more ready than Bender for whatever reason. It's definitely strange that Chriss is already part of rotation while Bender is fighting for scraps, eventough he looked more impressive in limited minutes he received. Perhaps Watson is showing some favoritism, or basing his minutes on practice performances ,idk.

[lilfishi22]

Tucker should get PT because he has experience and he's been paid to be productive. His 10-15mpg is about right for a vet. It isn't like he's expected to be playing 30mpg like he was in the last few seasons. We've more than halved his minutes, he's taking less shots, he's rebounding at the same rate and he's still out there bringing the energy. If anything, the reason why Bender isn't playing is because Chriss is getting decent minutes at the 4 and TJ is playing so damn well he's at 36mpg.

FWIW, Bender has been playing the majority of his minutes at the 4 and a bit at the 5. Has nothing to do with PJ backing up TJ

I see your argument but I disagree. Not to disregard your points, but PJ's shots and rebounding literally doesnt matter coz were not even contending for a playoff spot this year anyway. If his 2points/3rebs per 13 mins comes at a loss, then whats the point? If we play Bender, at least we can try to build something with him. Plus i think Bender can easily get those numbers if he plays PJ's minutes instead. And at least from the games ive seen, he doesnt bring much energy these days compared to before. As for the minutes, we can easily accommodate a four man rotation of Warren, Chriss, Dudley, and Bender for the two forward spots. Add that to the fact that he has his bonehead plays every now and then, and that Bender seems to be a high IQ player in comparison, then I think it should be an easy decision.

As to why they havent done it yet, it could be that theyre trying to build up PJ's value, or maybe they want Dragan to "earn" his minutes. But more likely, they probably dont think that Bender is ready, to which i disagree completely. Booker wouldnt have gotten to the All-NBA first team if they brought him along slowly, which they probably would have done if Bled and Knight didnt get injured.

At the end of the day, playing a PJ Tucker over your freshly-minted, high-ceiling, 4th overall pick, its bad look. Just my two cents.

Then you could say Chandler's contribution don't matter. Why not just play Len 35mpg if it's all about development? Why is Dudley playing 23mpg when he could be playing 2 and have Bender take over his minutes? Because we're not contending is not a good reason not to have some veteran play in the game. I see no reason to reduce PJ's already signficantly reduced role. I feel he's playing the right amount of minutes behind Warren and he's not disrupting the overall flow of the offense.

As for why Bender isn't playing more minutes ...that's up for debate but I don't believe it's because PJ is playing a measly 13mpg. Perhaps he's not getting it done in practice, perhaps there's a part of his game Watson wants more developed first or maybe he just doesn't like a certain habit Bender has. My take all rookies have not changed; minutes are their's to take, not their's to lose.

It's a bad look for the freshly-minted, high-ceiling, 4th overall pick if he can't earn his minutes. This is on Watson/Bender, not on PJ who by all measures is doing exactly what he's been paid to do; play hard, play defense, hit the occasional shot.

[blacksun]

Then you could say Chandler's contribution don't matter. Why not just play Len 35mpg if it's all about development? Why is Dudley playing 23mpg when he could be playing 2 and have Bender take over his minutes? Because we're not contending is not a good reason not to have some veteran play in the game. I see no reason to reduce PJ's already signficantly reduced role. I feel he's playing the right amount of minutes behind Warren and he's not disrupting the overall flow of the offense.

As for why Bender isn't playing more minutes ...that's up for debate but I don't believe it's because PJ is playing a measly 13mpg. Perhaps he's not getting it done in practice, perhaps there's a part of his game Watson wants more developed first or maybe he just doesn't like a certain habit Bender has. My take all rookies have not changed; minutes are their's to take, not their's to lose.

It's a bad look for the freshly-minted, high-ceiling, 4th overall pick if he can't earn his minutes. This is on Watson/Bender, not on PJ who by all measures is doing exactly what he's been paid to do; play hard, play defense, hit the occasional shot.

Well yes, I dont think Chandler and Dudley's numbers matter, and it wouldnt be bad for Len to play 35mpg. But im also not against veterans, as long as they dont slow the growth of our young players. I get that some people especially outside of these forums want to ship Chandler, Dudley etc for scraps but I dont agree with that. Its good to have them around for the off-court stuff. But with that being said, Chandler and Dudley are enough and PJ is just surplus to requirements. If we dont have an extra prospect that needs playing time, then by all means play PJ. And whether he earned minutes or not is up for debate. I for one think he's already earned it, but thats just me.

But its alright. Ive read my fill of complaints about PJ Tucker, and i dont want to add to that. Bender will get his minutes eventually, and the Suns are fun to watch so ill just enjoy the ride.

[lilfishi22]

Well yes, I dont think Chandler and Dudley's numbers matter, and it wouldnt be bad for Len to play 35mpg. But im also not against veterans, as long as they dont slow the growth of our young players. I get that some people especially outside of these forums want to ship Chandler, Dudley etc for scraps but I dont agree with that. Its good to have them around for the off-court stuff. But with that being said, Chandler and Dudley are enough and PJ is just surplus to requirements. If we dont have an extra prospect that needs playing time, then by all means play PJ. And whether he earned minutes or not is up for debate. I for one think he's already earned it, but thats just me.

But its alright. Ive read my fill of complaints about PJ Tucker, and i dont want to add to that. Bender will get his minutes eventually, and the Suns are fun to watch so ill just enjoy the ride.

The point is, every single rebound, every single point, every single assist matter #Allstatsmatter. Whether it's coming from Chandler or it's coming from Bender or it's coming from Booker. They matter LESS coming from veterans and matter more coming from our young players on a rebuilding team but they all matter because they contribute to competitiveness. Competitiveness is important because it builds a winning mentality and it teaches young kids not just how to win but also what it takes to win.

I want Bender to have his minutes and I want them to be productive minutes and if Watson doesn't think he'll be productive (whether he's recording points or rebounds or not) then he's not ready for. If he's deserving of minutes then he'll naturally get his.

[DRK]

Well yes, I dont think Chandler and Dudley's numbers matter, and it wouldnt be bad for Len to play 35mpg. But im also not against veterans, as long as they dont slow the growth of our young players. I get that some people especially outside of these forums want to ship Chandler, Dudley etc for scraps but I dont agree with that. Its good to have them around for the off-court stuff. But with that being said, Chandler and Dudley are enough and PJ is just surplus to requirements. If we dont have an extra prospect that needs playing time, then by all means play PJ. And whether he earned minutes or not is up for debate. I for one think he's already earned it, but thats just me.

But its alright. Ive read my fill of complaints about PJ Tucker, and i dont want to add to that. Bender will get his minutes eventually, and the Suns are fun to watch so ill just enjoy the ride.

The point is, every single rebound, every single point, every single assist matter #Allstatsmatter. Whether it's coming from Chandler or it's coming from Bender or it's coming from Booker. They matter LESS coming from veterans and matter more coming from our young players on a rebuilding team but they all matter because they contribute to competitiveness. Competitiveness is important because it builds a winning mentality and it teaches young kids not just how to win but also what it takes to win.

I want Bender to have his minutes and I want them to be productive minutes and if Watson doesn't think he'll be productive (whether he's recording points or rebounds or not) then he's not ready for. If he's deserving of minutes then he'll naturally get his.

And do you think that Bender cant easily replicate PJ's production? I think that is the argument here, not whether PJ is producing, but whether Bender can match PJ's production on the court

PJ's specialty was his lockdown defence, but I have seen nothing this season to say he is playing "lockdown D,"or even good defence so far. If PJ was routinely locking down the opponents best player every night, he would easily justify his minutes, but he isnt.
So thats a negative on PJ. If PJ doesnt have that, what can PJ do on the court that Bender cant? Bender is a better shooter, better ball handler, about 7 inches taller, 12 years younger, and unlike PJ, hes part of our core for the future.

Pj's play almost cost us a win last game, and hes certainly the reason for some of our losses (or at least part of a bigger reason).