Fry opting out?

[NTB]

Frye is in shooting slump like 2 MONTHS !! Why can't he shoots well? That's the biggest problem about him.

[Revived]

Frye's advanced stats place him with the best players in the league right?

Why is it that those best players have WAY better regular, non advanced stats than Frye? Dirk and Love take a very nasty, smelly sh*t on Frye's PPG, RBG, and any other normal stat that you can think of. And the other superstars that he's with also kill him pretty badly.

For example, Dragic had the highest PER out of all SGs in the league for quite a while. But nobody said that Dragic sucked or that those advanced stats were meaningless BECAUSE his normal numbers also matched up very well with the best SGs in the league Harden etc.

[Revived]

And by the way a lot of you are saying that Frye's reputation as a 3pt shooter is what is helping us so much.

How about when Mike D'Antoni told his Lakers to forget about Frye and leave him wide open in that last Lakers game? They dared him to shoot all game and Frye did absolutely nothing with it.

If D'Antoni, who is not known for his defensive guidance can figure out that leaving Frye open and having his man clog the paint to stop Bledsoe and Dragic is what can beat the Suns, then how long before the other HCs in the league figure this out as well?

[DRK]

What do you call Channing Frye in a shooting slump?

A defensive Liability

[RunDogGun]

What do you call Channing Frye in a shooting slump?

A defensive Liability

And yet over the last month he has twelve steals and fourteen blocks.

[RaisingArizona]

And he's given up an uncontested layup how many times? Sorry but he's constantly beat on defense. If his shot isn't going, he's not a productive NBA player.

[RunDogGun]

And he's given up an uncontested layup how many times? Sorry but he's constantly beat on defense. If his shot isn't going, he's not a productive NBA player.

Almost everyone of our guys have been giving up lay ups lately. We are still having trouble rotating correctly, and it seems like all of our guys are just step slower, most likely because of the amount of minutes they have received this season compared to past seasons.

As for Frye, I don't particularly care for him, I think he is not fully recovered from missing a full season, but there is no denying that we are a better team when he is on the floor, and it's not just this season. Odd as it might be, he still finds a way to contribute, even if his shot isn't falling. And when one goes back through the last month's games, he has had a few good games. Now does that warrant a starting position? Who knows more than Jeff? Just three games ago he shot 4-8 from three, so right now I would say his shot is inconsistent. But he also has been getting the ball late in the clock as well. The problem with starting Markieff is that he plays better with his brother, he plays well against second units, and he doesn't seem to get called for so many fouls when he comes off the bench. Moreover, Mark is doing very well coming off the bench lately, and it's nice to have that offense off the bench.

But again, twelve steals and fourteen blocks isn't bad defensive stats for any PF for a month. And on the offensive side, he rarely turns the ball over, which is a huge problem for this team in many games.

Oh well, I am not trying to make anyone change their opinion about Frye, just pointing out what many choose to overlook.

[Wannabe MEP]

Suppose we replaced Frye with…let's say Zach Randolph. Very good player who scores well in RPM, as well as box score stats. He'd get a lot of rebounds, and get some grown-man points in the paint. No doubt, his box score would be more impressive than Frye's. (And half this board would fansturbate all over themselves.)

But…would Bledsoe-Dragic-Tucker-Randolph-Plumlee actually be better than Bledsoe-Dragic-Tucker-Frye-Plumlee?

I'd argue no. And RPM would agree with me (although it's not exactly designed to make that kind of assessment). I think that lineup would be slightly better defensively, but worse offensively. Randolph would get better numbers than Frye, but Bledsoe and especially DRAGIC's numbers would drop off significantly with a more clogged paint.

Oh, and Randolph costs $18.2 million. Frye costs $6.4 million. Kind of important. With Frye, we can redistribute that extra $11.8 million on other quality players.

With Dragic on the court last season, the Suns scored 100.5 points per 100 possessions. This season with Dragic on the court, they're scoring 110.7 points per 100 possessions. That difference can't possibly be Bledsoe, because Dragic units are actually scoring more PPP when Bledsoe is not playing.

I'm saying -- and RPM is saying the exact same thing -- Frye deserves a huge chunk of the credit for that difference in the Suns offense this year. The argument is bolstered by the fact that Dragic-Barbosa-Dudley-Lou-Frye was so ridiculously successful years ago, when none of those five players was considered "good" by most of the basketball world. (It's bolstered further because of how much Dragic struggled the next year when he wasn't playing alongside Frye anymore.)

[RunDogGun]

That is where the main question sits. Do you want a player that can put up good stats, yet hinders the team from playing its best, or a player, who puts up small stats, yet the rest of the team is better when that player is on the floor. Never being a player fan, I would go for the team first.

[thamadkant]

you dont know if Zach Randolph will hinder the Suns... if anything defenses cannot just focus on perimeter.... Suns will have inside and outside threaths.


Anyways, Zach isnt coming to Suns... moot discussion.


Bosh is a possibility.. inside, mid range and outside game.... get it done Sarver!

[DRK]

What do you call Channing Frye in a shooting slump?

A defensive Liability

And yet over the last month he has twelve steals and fourteen blocks.

Steals and Blocks does not always equal good defence.

[Revived]

Imagine having a guy like Bosh, Millsap, Amir Johnson, Taj Gibson, David West, LMA etc instead of Frye. We wouldn't be talking about finding a way to make playoffs, we would be talking about finding a way to get HMA.

[Wannabe MEP]

Imagine having a guy like Bosh, Millsap, Amir Johnson, Taj Gibson, David West, LMA etc instead of Frye.

One of my dream scenarios is actually pairing Amir Johnson WITH Channing Frye. Frye thrived beside Lou -- Amir strikes me as a much-improved Lou. I thought he was attainable for a very reasonable price a few years ago, but I can't imagine Toronto trading him now (even though they have a glut of PFs).

Based on RPM...

Bledsoe +3.52
Dragic +3.69
Tucker -0.53
Frye +4.06
Plumlee -1.66

...Plumlee's the first to replace. I like Plumlee fine, and that unit's been so good as is. But I've long dreamed about finding a Lou-Amare hybrid to pair with Frye -- which Plumlee certainly is not. (The uber-ideal player is a Lou-Amare-Marion hybrid that may not really exist.)

I mean, seriously, look at these numbers again:

Frye +4.06
Plumlee -1.66

And everyone want to get rid of Frye?

I would be very, very happy with us keeping the core 8 of Dragic, Frye, Bledsoe, Tucker, Plumlee, Markieff, Marcus, and Green together. My ideal addition is a Lou-Amare-Marion hybrid to pair with Frye for a go-to closing (not necessarily starting) unit.

[Wannabe MEP]

you dont know if Zach Randolph will hinder the Suns... if anything defenses cannot just focus on perimeter.... Suns will have inside and outside threaths.

Right...but none of us know anything when it comes to projecting theoretical futures.

Since the return of Bledsoe (& Tucker) in March...

Suns ppg within 5 ft: 18.5; 67.6%
Griz ppg within 5 ft: 17.4; 57.1%

If only we had inside threats so we could get high percentage looks near the basket.

[RunDogGun]

What do you call Channing Frye in a shooting slump?

A defensive Liability

And yet over the last month he has twelve steals and fourteen blocks.

Steals and Blocks does not always equal good defence.

True, but both are defensive stats that many here live and die talking about.

[NaturalBuns]

It's actually scary to think the suns are winning so many games with frye sucking it up.
Imagine if he gets his stroke back

[RunDogGun]

It's actually scary to think the suns are winning so many games with frye sucking it up.
Imagine if he gets his stroke back

He was 4-8 from three just a few games ago. If we can get him the ball in rhythm instead of right before the clock runs out, his numbers might be better. However, the threat that he might make those shots still have an effect. In switches the other night, OKC was double and also triple teaming Frye, we just didn't capitalize on it.

[Revived]

Imagine having a guy like Bosh, Millsap, Amir Johnson, Taj Gibson, David West, LMA etc instead of Frye.

One of my dream scenarios is actually pairing Amir Johnson WITH Channing Frye. Frye thrived beside Lou -- Amir strikes me as a much-improved Lou. I thought he was attainable for a very reasonable price a few years ago, but I can't imagine Toronto trading him now (even though they have a glut of PFs).

Based on RPM...

Bledsoe +3.52
Dragic +3.69
Tucker -0.53
Frye +4.06
Plumlee -1.66

...Plumlee's the first to replace. I like Plumlee fine, and that unit's been so good as is. But I've long dreamed about finding a Lou-Amare hybrid to pair with Frye -- which Plumlee certainly is not. (The uber-ideal player is a Lou-Amare-Marion hybrid that may not really exist.)

I mean, seriously, look at these numbers again:

Frye +4.06
Plumlee -1.66

And everyone want to get rid of Frye?

I would be very, very happy with us keeping the core 8 of Dragic, Frye, Bledsoe, Tucker, Plumlee, Markieff, Marcus, and Green together. My ideal addition is a Lou-Amare-Marion hybrid to pair with Frye for a go-to closing (not necessarily starting) unit.

Even though I have seen it win 60 games with Amare & Marion, I'm not a huge fan of it.

Let me rephrase that...I LOVE small ball when it's used in spurts and I think it's a lot more effective that way. But I don't like it as the starting lineup or the "main" lineup even though I know this season our main lineup is probably Bledsoe, Dragic, Green, Tucker, Kieff. And when Bledsoe was out, frye was probably in that lineup.

^i didn't look at the stats for those, I'm just guessing.

Based on the players we have right now, I want our main lineup to be Bledsoe-Dragic-Green-Tucker-Plumlee

[DRK]

And yet over the last month he has twelve steals and fourteen blocks.

Steals and Blocks does not always equal good defence.

True, but both are defensive stats that many here live and die talking about.

Im still not sure what side of the argument you are on, but from my experience watching him play, no amount of blocks or steals.. or even +/= that show up on the stat sheet is going to convince me that he isnt a horrible defender and hurts the team.

You can "Los Soles"me until the cows come home, but I'm not going to agree that Channing Frye isnt a one-trick pony.. who has lost his trick right now.

[RunDogGun]

Los is just providing valid statistical data, I really don't think he is weighing in on whether Frye is a good defender or not. Neither am I really, for I think he has lost a step this season, which is understandable because of missing a whole season from heart issues.

However, none of that changes the FACT that the Suns are a better team when Frye is on the court, and clearly that does not show up in everyone's eye test. So regardless of whether you like/dislike Frye, or whatever pony you think he is, you either want the team and players to be better as a whole team, or you don't. Frye, for whatever reason, makes the whole team better.