Suns need to stop neglecting to develop their young players

[Scutt]

Add to that, the fact that Goodwin is playing behind multiple very good young players who are still developing or are just approaching their primes. Do you sit down Gragic who is entering his prime and was a 3rd team all NBA last year - hardly mediocre. Do you sit Bledsoe down to whom you just gave him a huge and is a couple of years away from his prime. Do you sit down Green, who averages 2 points every 3 minutes he plays? Many of these guys are still developing their games and skills.

It is easy to sit there and whine about not playing the kids, but these players need to earn the playing time by being at least as good as those who play in front of them.

The only young player who might have a gripe would be Len, his minutes need to rise somewhat, unless he is on some undisclosed minute restriction.

Why do the Suns need all 3 those guys and Thomas though? Of those 3 you mentioned, Bledsoe is the only one I view as young and still developing. Dragic and Green are not old by any means, but they are what they are at this point. I don't see Dragic ever matching last years numbers again, unless we let him be the #1 guy and where will that get this team? Green may refine his game a bit, but he will always be a low IQ player that will make boneheaded mistakes.

I don't think anyone on this board is seriously suggesting the Suns bench Dragic and Bledsoe and throw Goodwin to the fire, but it is not unreasonable that fans are upset that Goodwin's playing time went from 8 minutes a game last year, to 3 minutes a game this year, and only playing in a small handful of games.

We are letting a 20 year old rot on the bench, in favor of letting Gerald Green play for his next contract. The Suns are a rebuilding team, they don't need a 29 year old, who has maxed out his ceiling, to get ALL the back up minutes. Shot happy Gerald Green is best served as a 6th man, spark off the bench, for a contending team. By the time the Suns are contenders again, do you really believe Dragic and Green will still be on the roster playing at a high level? Very rarely do players maintain high level of play into their 30's, let alone improve it, not everyone is Steve Nash, he was an exception to the rule. With all that said, I want the Suns to keep one, just not both. I'd prefer keeping Dragic obviously, but no one on this roster should be considered untradedable, except maybe Len.

[RunDogGun]

This has gone from willful ignorance to plain stupidity.

[aIvin adams]

This has gone from willful ignorance to plain stupidity.

[Revived]

Even if Goodwin is the giant scrub that everyone thinks he is, no excuse for Len to not start and for Warren to not get playing time.

Suns get put into a deficit early because of Plumlee's dumbass where he commits stupid fouls, turnovers or let's his guy beat him easily.

I'd rather watch Len foul out than Plumlee play like a mentally ill child. Like sometimes when I watch Plumlee play, there's tears coming down my cheeks because I feel bad for him because of how much he sucks.

One of the greatest basketball coaches of all time Mike Kryzyweski isn't surprised by any of this.

And Warren...he should be getting all of Tolliver's minutes plus some of Marcus minutes. I know Tolliver's played well lately but again, it's about player development.

Warren needs to be getting at least 20 mins every single game. Making the ACC Player of the Year the waterboy for the team while selfish players who do nothing but iso ball get playing time is a disgrace to Phoenix Suns basketball.

[Moochthemonkey]

Even if Goodwin is the giant scrub that everyone thinks he is, no excuse for Len to not start and for Warren to not get playing time.

Suns get put into a deficit early because of Plumlee's dumbass where he commits stupid fouls, turnovers or let's his guy beat him easily.

I'd rather watch Len foul out than Plumlee play like a mentally ill child. Like sometimes when I watch Plumlee play, there's tears coming down my cheeks because I feel bad for him because of how much he sucks.

One of the greatest basketball coaches of all time Mike Kryzyweski isn't surprised by any of this.

And Warren...he should be getting all of Tolliver's minutes plus some of Marcus minutes. I know Tolliver's played well lately but again, it's about player development.

Warren needs to be getting at least 20 mins every single game. Making the ACC Player of the Year the waterboy for the team while selfish players who do nothing but iso ball get playing time is a disgrace to Phoenix Suns basketball.

[phrazbit]

This has gone from willful ignorance to plain stupidity.

I think you jumped the gun by a few posts

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

In general, I'm with those who think we ought to be playing our young guys. Far as I can tell, Tyler is the most team-oriented, least turnover-prone PG, and I think he's got a good shot of having the best career of all our PGs. I think TJ is likely going to have the best career of everyone on the roster.

I know they're playing behind guys who can win more games for us in the short-term, but it just sucks. As a fan, I want to watch our young guys develop. I'm sold on hope. I get that the guys I want to watch play aren't the league's best players, but we're not winning very much anyways. I think we should sell some of these vets to teams that are closer to contention so we can open up more time for Tyler and TJ.

I like Goodwin too, but I think he might do better on another roster. Kid can neither shoot nor handle the ball. He's got a long ways to go. Send him east.

To those who say that development happens in practice - watch Alex. The refs call the game differently for different players, and I'm sure our coaches were unable to guess how Alex would be treated. Now he's having an opportunity to learn. He's learning to play against elite offensive bigs, learning how to take it to the rim against guys who really want to stuff his ****. I don't think you can simulate all that in practice.

IMO, this really boils down to what stage of development you think the team's in. If you think we're mostly building, you want to see our more talented, young players play. From where I sit, we're not going to win anything with Bled/Goran/Kieff/Gerald/IT as our best players. We won't win until TJ is the guy. And I'm half-convinced that we won't win until Tyler, not Eric, is our starting PG.

HALF THE PEOPLE around here want to trade Tyler or other youngs for talent that can help us win now. I don't think we're that close. I'd rather trade talent that can help us win now for assets that will continue to help us down the road. And I think that's the basic divide.

Before the season, I was living in the moment, hopeful that we'd kill with speed and depth. Ain't happening. Now, for me, it's Back to the Future.

[RunDogGun]

We have Mark West as an assistant coach, I think we know exactly how PHX Suns bigs are treated.

This has gone from willful ignorance to plain stupidity.

I think you jumped the gun by a few posts

Yes, some clearly haven't watched Tropical Thunder.

[Christine-In-AZ]

Dragic and Green are not old by any means, but they are what they are at this point. I don't see Dragic ever matching last years numbers again, unless we let him be the #1 guy and where will that get this team?

Dragic would and will match his play of last year (many times over) when McDonough gives him the keys, after the Bledsoe+ blockbuster trade that nets the Suns 1st rate frontline player. When that happens PHX will start heading upward again...that's where.

Right now, Goran can't be that Goran a lot of the time due to the backcourt clutter and inconsistent roles.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Dragic and Green are not old by any means, but they are what they are at this point. I don't see Dragic ever matching last years numbers again, unless we let him be the #1 guy and where will that get this team?

Dragic would and will match his play of last year (many times over) when McDonough gives him the keys, after the Bledsoe+ blockbuster trade that nets the Suns 1st rate frontline player. When that happens PHX will start heading upward again...that's where.

Right now, Goran can't be that Goran a lot of the time due to the backcourt clutter and inconsistent roles.

I like the idea, but I've racked my brain, and I just don't see that first-rate frontcourt player being available this year. Will Goran re-sign with us when all we give is a promise? Won't he learn something from IT's predicament?

Tyler Ennis reminds me of Andre Miller, but with better defense. Whatever happens, I want him to play. He makes others better. We need a distributor. And we probably need to transition to more of a defense-oriented team over the next couple years. I know I'm looking ahead a bit, but I'm just not that excited about any of our Galaxy Guards at the moment.

[Christine-In-AZ]

Dragic and Green are not old by any means, but they are what they are at this point. I don't see Dragic ever matching last years numbers again, unless we let him be the #1 guy and where will that get this team?

Dragic would and will match his play of last year (many times over) when McDonough gives him the keys, after the Bledsoe+ blockbuster trade that nets the Suns 1st rate frontline player. When that happens PHX will start heading upward again...that's where.

Right now, Goran can't be that Goran a lot of the time due to the backcourt clutter and inconsistent roles.

I like the idea, but I've racked my brain, and I just don't see that first-rate frontcourt player being available this year. Will Goran re-sign with us when all we give is a promise? Won't he learn something from IT's predicament?

Tyler Ennis reminds me of Andre Miller, but with better defense. Whatever happens, I want him to play. He makes others better. We need a distributor. And we probably need to transition to more of a defense-oriented team over the next couple years. I know I'm looking ahead a bit, but I'm just not that excited about any of our Galaxy Guards at the moment.

I don't see The Trade either. Still, the need (by some means)to court and convince Goran to stay is paramount in my book.

If the FO doesn't manage to hold on to Goran in free agency, this year's motto "Fuel the Fire" might as well have been "F**ked the Fire".

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Dragic would and will match his play of last year (many times over) when McDonough gives him the keys, after the Bledsoe+ blockbuster trade that nets the Suns 1st rate frontline player. When that happens PHX will start heading upward again...that's where.

Right now, Goran can't be that Goran a lot of the time due to the backcourt clutter and inconsistent roles.

I like the idea, but I've racked my brain, and I just don't see that first-rate frontcourt player being available this year. Will Goran re-sign with us when all we give is a promise? Won't he learn something from IT's predicament?

Tyler Ennis reminds me of Andre Miller, but with better defense. Whatever happens, I want him to play. He makes others better. We need a distributor. And we probably need to transition to more of a defense-oriented team over the next couple years. I know I'm looking ahead a bit, but I'm just not that excited about any of our Galaxy Guards at the moment.

I don't see The Trade either. Still, the need (by some means)to court and convince Goran to stay is paramount in my book.

If the FO doesn't manage to hold on to Goran in free agency, this year's motto "Fuel the Fire" might as well have been "F**ked the Fire".

I think we overrate Dragic dramatically. And I think the player on our roster whose game most closely resembles Goran's is Warren - and I think he'll be a much better version, making Goran redundant. I really don't care what happens with him, but I may be the only one.

... If Goran continues to struggle all year, which one's the anomaly? Last year, or this one and the year before?

[Christine-In-AZ]

I like the idea, but I've racked my brain, and I just don't see that first-rate frontcourt player being available this year. Will Goran re-sign with us when all we give is a promise? Won't he learn something from IT's predicament?

Tyler Ennis reminds me of Andre Miller, but with better defense. Whatever happens, I want him to play. He makes others better. We need a distributor. And we probably need to transition to more of a defense-oriented team over the next couple years. I know I'm looking ahead a bit, but I'm just not that excited about any of our Galaxy Guards at the moment.

I don't see The Trade either. Still, the need (by some means)to court and convince Goran to stay is paramount in my book.

If the FO doesn't manage to hold on to Goran in free agency, this year's motto "Fuel the Fire" might as well have been "F**ked the Fire".

I think we overrate Dragic dramatically. And I think the player on our roster whose game most closely resembles Goran's is Warren - and I think he'll be a much better version, making Goran redundant. I really don't care what happens with him, but I may be the only one.

... If Goran continues to struggle all year, which one's the anomaly? Last year, or this one and the year before?

I don't watch college basketball...and so have seen little of Warren. What little I have seen of TJ makes me think of Ced Ceballos...not anything like Goran to me.

Goran has been my "developing" Manu Ginobili for years. I still think they will continue to be comparable, both in game skills, BBIQ and longevity. Without being tremendously athletic, I think Goran is a top player in this league when it comes to grading out A to Z. He would be a regular, much talked about All NBA player if surrounded by the right team.

Maybe someday.

[Scutt]

Dragic and Green are not old by any means, but they are what they are at this point. I don't see Dragic ever matching last years numbers again, unless we let him be the #1 guy and where will that get this team?

Dragic would and will match his play of last year (many times over) when McDonough gives him the keys, after the Bledsoe+ blockbuster trade that nets the Suns 1st rate frontline player. When that happens PHX will start heading upward again...that's where.

Right now, Goran can't be that Goran a lot of the time due to the backcourt clutter and inconsistent roles.

Again I ask, where is this team going to go if you "give the keys" to Goran Dragic and have him as your best player? For him to average 20 and 6, that's what has to be done. He has to be your #1 guy, handling the ball all the time, to put up those stats. If getting Dragic back to that means shipping out Bledsoe, who is younger and a much better defender, than this team is never going to sniff the playoffs. Bledsoe just turned 25 and is already outplaying Dragic this year. He is younger, and already locked up to a long term deal, I certainly don't want to trade him in favor of Dragic. I would much rather see Green, Thomas, or both moved. 20 and 6 from your best player wont cut it in this league, Goran is not taking his game to the next level, Bledsoe has that chance still.

[Christine-In-AZ]

Dragic and Green are not old by any means, but they are what they are at this point. I don't see Dragic ever matching last years numbers again, unless we let him be the #1 guy and where will that get this team?

Dragic would and will match his play of last year (many times over) when McDonough gives him the keys, after the Bledsoe+ blockbuster trade that nets the Suns 1st rate frontline player. When that happens PHX will start heading upward again...that's where.

Right now, Goran can't be that Goran a lot of the time due to the backcourt clutter and inconsistent roles.

Again I ask, where is this team going to go if you "give the keys" to Goran Dragic and have him as your best player? For him to average 20 and 6, that's what has to be done. He has to be your #1 guy, handling the ball all the time, to put up those stats. If getting Dragic back to that means shipping out Bledsoe, who is younger and a much better defender, than this team is never going to sniff the playoffs. Bledsoe just turned 25 and is already outplaying Dragic this year. He is younger, and already locked up to a long term deal, I certainly don't want to trade him in favor of Dragic. I would much rather see Green, Thomas, or both moved.

I'd rather keep Dragic for the long haul if forced to choose. I recognize EB great talent, but I'll keep Goran and translate Bled into the needed goods. Bledsoe gets the Suns more return.

Don't see a trade anytime soon, but the FO will be patient. Never was about this year anyway. No panic.

[phrazbit]

I've noticed a trend among the fans who reeeeeally like Dragic is that they seem to worry far more about Dragic's stats than how the team is doing. Bledsoe is a better player, the team plays significantly better with Bledsoe than when they didn't have him and Dragic was putting up big stats. Bledsoe is marginally behind Dragic on offense but worlds better as a defender.

I like them both together, I think last year proved that they can function at a high level together, but if one of them has to go, IMO its a no brainer that you let Dragic walk.

[NavLDO]

Dragic would and will match his play of last year (many times over) when McDonough gives him the keys, after the Bledsoe+ blockbuster trade that nets the Suns 1st rate frontline player. When that happens PHX will start heading upward again...that's where.

Right now, Goran can't be that Goran a lot of the time due to the backcourt clutter and inconsistent roles.

Again I ask, where is this team going to go if you "give the keys" to Goran Dragic and have him as your best player? For him to average 20 and 6, that's what has to be done. He has to be your #1 guy, handling the ball all the time, to put up those stats. If getting Dragic back to that means shipping out Bledsoe, who is younger and a much better defender, than this team is never going to sniff the playoffs. Bledsoe just turned 25 and is already outplaying Dragic this year. He is younger, and already locked up to a long term deal, I certainly don't want to trade him in favor of Dragic. I would much rather see Green, Thomas, or both moved.

I'd rather keep Dragic for the long haul if forced to choose. I recognize EB great talent, but I'll keep Goran and translate Bled into the needed goods. Bledsoe gets the Suns more return.

Don't see a trade anytime soon, but the FO will be patient. Never was about this year anyway. No panic.

If one of the two were to be trade during THIS period prior to the trade deadline, I'd prefer to trade EB, due to what has already mentioned--EB will net us a bigger impact player in the Frontcourt. He's the better player of the two AND he's 3 years younger, right?

But if stay put through the end of the season, then let's keep EB and let Goran walk if it's going to cause us to invest $30M a year for the two. I'd rather have Green for $5M/per (he won't command more than that, right?) We have Ennis and Goodwin to develop behind them, and then with Warren and Len, we can "shop" for a PF, either to start over Kieff, or play behind him, either way we get better for next year, IMO.

[aIvin adams]

green will get more than $5M/yr

i'd guess 7-9M right now. but who knows

[JDLAW]

I've noticed a trend among the fans who reeeeeally like Dragic is that they seem to worry far more about Dragic's stats than how the team is doing. Bledsoe is a better player, the team plays significantly better with Bledsoe than when they didn't have him and Dragic was putting up big stats. Bledsoe is marginally behind Dragic on offense but worlds better as a defender.

I like them both together, I think last year proved that they can function at a high level together, but if one of them has to go, IMO its a no brainer that you let Dragic walk.

I agree with you up to a couple of points. I do no think the team is better with either of them out of the line-up. Dragic's work with Bledsoe out is bigger, but the team struggles with Dragic out of the line-up. The reason the pairing of them works is because both can make plays and both are very good offensive players. Bledsoe is a better defender at the point, but Dragic is a better defender on the #2 guard (eyeball test). It is not a choice between the two. I do not think you let either of them go. Trading Dragic or Bledsoe does not solve our problems, it creates new ones.

To all those who think Goran is going to walk at the end of the year, think harder. The market for him will not be great because of the glut of point guards in the league. I also believe the Suns have a deal ready for him already and they made it known to him and his agent after Bledsoe signed. I also think he believes this is home and wants to be here.

From the Suns standpoint, although no one is untouchable, Dragic, Bledsoe and Len are as close as it gets for this team.

[JDLAW]

Again I ask, where is this team going to go if you "give the keys" to Goran Dragic and have him as your best player? For him to average 20 and 6, that's what has to be done. He has to be your #1 guy, handling the ball all the time, to put up those stats. If getting Dragic back to that means shipping out Bledsoe, who is younger and a much better defender, than this team is never going to sniff the playoffs. Bledsoe just turned 25 and is already outplaying Dragic this year. He is younger, and already locked up to a long term deal, I certainly don't want to trade him in favor of Dragic. I would much rather see Green, Thomas, or both moved.

I'd rather keep Dragic for the long haul if forced to choose. I recognize EB great talent, but I'll keep Goran and translate Bled into the needed goods. Bledsoe gets the Suns more return.

Don't see a trade anytime soon, but the FO will be patient. Never was about this year anyway. No panic.

If one of the two were to be trade during THIS period prior to the trade deadline, I'd prefer to trade EB, due to what has already mentioned--EB will net us a bigger impact player in the Frontcourt. He's the better player of the two AND he's 3 years younger, right?

But if stay put through the end of the season, then let's keep EB and let Goran walk if it's going to cause us to invest $30M a year for the two. I'd rather have Green for $5M/per (he won't command more than that, right?) We have Ennis and Goodwin to develop behind them, and then with Warren and Len, we can "shop" for a PF, either to start over Kieff, or play behind him, either way we get better for next year, IMO.

You do not let Dragic walk for a couple of million dollars. He'll likely get a contract that matches Bledsoe's and will resign.