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Suns Offseason Thread 3: Spurned for the Spurs

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Re: Suns Offseason Thread 3: Spurned for the Spurs 

Post#61 » by carey » Sat Jul 4, 2015 10:26 pm

Sun Scorched wrote:
bigfoot wrote:Needed to get a rebounder ... check
Needed a great defender ... check
Needed a veteran presence ... check
Needed to dump Marcus ... check
Needed to draft a shooter ... check

So far off-season is going well. Still have time to work some deals.

Bledsoe / Ish
Knight / Booker
Tucker / Warren
Kief / Leuer
Chandler / Len


I couldn't agree more. I think we've had an underrated off-season. We quietly got the best shooter in the draft who we will have on a rookie scale for the next four years. We also inked, early, Tyson Chandler whom I've always wanted to be a Sun. Albeit, it truly is a few years late, I think Chandler is more valuable than just his stat line, PER or defense - his veteran leadership will be HUGE.

Honestly, I think David West makes way too much sense at this point. He's very close with both TJ Warren, has played with Tyson Chandler and is yet one more veteran locker room presence - things valuable for a playoff push.

PG - Bledsoe / [???]
SG - Knight / Booker / Goodwin
SF - Tucker / Warren
PF - [West] / Morris / Leuer
C - Chandler / Len

I think is an underrated team. And are we locked into Ish? I'd really like to see us grab another young guard and give them a chance. Ish just doesn't do it for me.

I'll pass on West. He wants to play on a contender anyway. I'll also pass on Tucker starting. I never want to see that again. He's an energy guy that doesn't quite know his limitations as a player. Time for Tony Buckets to start. I just worry about his fit with Markieff. Both are midrange guys. TJ's 3-point shot is actually decent looking. If he starts hitting it reliably then he could average 15 a game.

Thank you both for being optimistic. These burn it all down types frustrate me. What for? A chance to get players as good as Bledsoe, Knight, and Markieff? Odds are we get worse players. Just look at Philly, Sacramento, Orlando etc. You don't always strike gold. Sitting through multiple bad seasons for a chance to even mine is risky at best.
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Re: Suns Offseason Thread 3: Spurned for the Spurs 

Post#62 » by randomsun14 » Sat Jul 4, 2015 10:27 pm

SunsFanSSOL wrote:Now what?


What else happens after we miss out on a big FA

nothing we'll keep on waiting for the big mcd trade that never happens. Someway somehow pj tucker will be a starter, and we'll be in the same exact scenario for years.
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Re: Suns Offseason Thread 3: Spurned for the Spurs 

Post#63 » by AtheJ415 » Sat Jul 4, 2015 10:27 pm

JTrain wrote:
AtheJ415 wrote:No. I'd ask why you think PER is a good way to measure anything, when there are much better stats out there, and why you think a team built around its back court would ever win because of its front court. For instance, I'd invite anybody with eyes to argue Omer Asik was better than Len last year.

That's like saying the Thunder can't win when they had Kendrick Perkins at C when they won because of their PG and SF.


PER is, of course, not perfect, but it's one of the best advanced stats we have. (FWIW - Len is also last in WS/48).

If there was a coherent point after the first sentence, I failed to decipher it.


There were plenty of coherent points, but you aren't very good at deciphering.

For instance, your premise states that Omer Asik was better than Alex Len last year. Nobody with eyes would agree.

Also, No was my first sentence, so you responded to the second one. :lol:

The last sentence was simply stating that we win because of our backcourt--not our front court. If I ranked Thabo and Perkins and even a younger Ibaka on similar stats through much of Durant and Westbrook's reign in OKC, it would look just as ugly. We have one of the best backcourts in basketball and you're saying we can't win because of our front court while eliminating the back court from the discussion. How do the Wizards look in that scenario also?
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Re: Suns Offseason Thread 3: Spurned for the Spurs 

Post#64 » by thamadkant » Sat Jul 4, 2015 10:29 pm

Gallinari
Mirotic
David Lee


Heck, maybe Bledsoe is back in the trade table?
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Re: Suns Offseason Thread 3: Spurned for the Spurs 

Post#65 » by SunsFanSSOL » Sat Jul 4, 2015 10:31 pm

Might as well just trade McNeal for Lee and a future 1st. He was an 18 and 9 guy before Kerr. Yeah, his defense sucks, but he sets great illegal screens so Bledsoe and Knight can get open, and he actually rebounds and has a post game. Plus he expires after the year so it's not a risky trade.
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Re: Suns Offseason Thread 3: Spurned for the Spurs 

Post#66 » by matt131 » Sat Jul 4, 2015 10:34 pm

[tweet]https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/status/617461214440873985[/tweet]

a bad player for a bad team
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Re: Suns Offseason Thread 3: Spurned for the Spurs 

Post#67 » by starbosa10 » Sat Jul 4, 2015 10:39 pm

i hate the spurs
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Re: Suns Offseason Thread 3: Spurned for the Spurs 

Post#68 » by SkinnyOMiller » Sat Jul 4, 2015 10:41 pm

Nando88 wrote:We can absorb Channing to come back... Just saying


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I would be down for Channing or Ryan Anderson of the Pelicans.


In anycase, I hope that the Suns maintain cap flexibility to go after a big name FA next year, just gotta keep swinging away, eventually you'll knock one out of the park like Dallas just did after years of missing on big name FA's.
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Re: Suns Offseason Thread 3: Spurned for the Spurs 

Post#69 » by SkinnyOMiller » Sat Jul 4, 2015 10:42 pm

SunsFanSSOL wrote:Might as well just trade McNeal for Lee and a future 1st. He was an 18 and 9 guy before Kerr. Yeah, his defense sucks, but he sets great illegal screens so Bledsoe and Knight can get open, and he actually rebounds and has a post game. Plus he expires after the year so it's not a risky trade.



Lee actually could make sense if they can fit him in under the cap. He'd be a good one year stopgap for this team.
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Post#70 » by King4Day » Sat Jul 4, 2015 10:44 pm

Would anyone:

Offer Thompson the max. If they don't match then deal kieff. Thoughts?
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Re: Suns Offseason Thread 3: Spurned for the Spurs 

Post#71 » by thamadkant » Sat Jul 4, 2015 10:45 pm

I would love to get Ryan Anderson too.
Heck Ryan Anderson + Gallinari
Would allow the Suns to atleast be as good as Warriors from the perimeter. It's the defense that may suffer... Chandler will take the full blunt of the attacks lol. But against jump shooting teams like Warriors... Suns can score as much As them from the arc.
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Re: Suns Offseason Thread 3: Spurned for the Spurs 

Post#72 » by JTrain » Sat Jul 4, 2015 10:48 pm

AtheJ415 wrote:
JTrain wrote:
AtheJ415 wrote:No. I'd ask why you think PER is a good way to measure anything, when there are much better stats out there, and why you think a team built around its back court would ever win because of its front court. For instance, I'd invite anybody with eyes to argue Omer Asik was better than Len last year.

That's like saying the Thunder can't win when they had Kendrick Perkins at C when they won because of their PG and SF.


PER is, of course, not perfect, but it's one of the best advanced stats we have. (FWIW - Len is also last in WS/48).

If there was a coherent point after the first sentence, I failed to decipher it.


There were plenty of coherent points, but you aren't very good at deciphering.

For instance, your premise states that Omer Asik was better than Alex Len last year. Nobody with eyes would agree.

Also, No was my first sentence, so you responded to the second one. :lol:

The last sentence was simply stating that we win because of our backcourt--not our front court. If I ranked Thabo and Perkins and even a younger Ibaka on similar stats through much of Durant and Westbrook's reign in OKC, it would look just as ugly. We have one of the best backcourts in basketball and you're saying we can't win because of our front court while eliminating the back court from the discussion. How do the Wizards look in that scenario also?


Had one of the best backcourts. Dragic and IT were a large part of it.

I would take Len over Asik, but head over to the General board and make a poll and you will see your statement regarding that is simply empirically false (unless you can prove there are a lot of eyeless people over there). But the point is not about arguing PER specifically. The point is that our front court is really bad compared to the other teams in the West by most respected measurements. Feel free to use WS instead. And we don't really know what our backcourt will be like, but the small sample size thus far indicates that it won't be nearly as good as the previous one.
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Re: 

Post#73 » by SkinnyOMiller » Sat Jul 4, 2015 10:48 pm

DarkHawk wrote:Would anyone:

Offer Thompson the max. If they don't match then deal kieff. Thoughts?




Hell no. :-?
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Re: Re: Suns Offseason Thread 3: Spurned for the Spurs 

Post#74 » by King4Day » Sat Jul 4, 2015 10:49 pm

AtheJ415 wrote:Since Wright hasn't signed a deal yet, can we keep his RFA rights and match him?



jcsunsfan wrote:Options: Free agent signing, trade.

Bargnani would provide a Channing Frye type presence and he would be cheap.
Trade for David Lee and Kevon Looney (Tucker?)
Trade for Anthony Bennett (Cleveland pick?) He is going nowhere on that Minny roster. Maybe there is some potential there. His body hasn't been right and we have the training staff for that.

I am just throwing ideas out there.


I'd def do the Bennet deal.
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Re: Re: Suns Offseason Thread 3: Spurned for the Spurs 

Post#75 » by SkinnyOMiller » Sat Jul 4, 2015 10:52 pm

DarkHawk wrote:
AtheJ415 wrote:Since Wright hasn't signed a deal yet, can we keep his RFA rights and match him?



jcsunsfan wrote:Options: Free agent signing, trade.

Bargnani would provide a Channing Frye type presence and he would be cheap.
Trade for David Lee and Kevon Looney (Tucker?)
Trade for Anthony Bennett (Cleveland pick?) He is going nowhere on that Minny roster. Maybe there is some potential there. His body hasn't been right and we have the training staff for that.

I am just throwing ideas out there.


I'd def do the Bennet deal.





I don't care what the Suns do as long as they don't get into any long term deals for mediocre players. Acquiring a guy like Lee or Anderson, both of whom have expiring contracts would be perfect. Yeah they struck out on Aldridge but I do feel like they gained credibility in the process and could have an easier time with a top FA next year, particularly if they end up making the playoffs this season.
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Re: Suns Offseason Thread 3: Spurned for the Spurs 

Post#76 » by MilotheSlayer » Sat Jul 4, 2015 10:54 pm

Can we trade a 2nd for the expiring contract of Haywood? Then sign Chandler outright. Then flip Haywood for Lee. I think that would be legal with the cap. That way we don't lose anyone worth anything and pick up Lee, who I think would be a great backup to Kief. Lee can stretch it out to 10-15ft. He can run the floor and scores the ball at a high percentage. Plus his ball movement is key. He's a more than willing passer who always swings it to the open guy. He's a good locker room guy and I'd be more than willing to pick up his 15? mil salary for the year. We'd have to stud PF's on the offensive side, and 2 stud Centers on the defensive side.
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Post#77 » by King4Day » Sat Jul 4, 2015 10:57 pm

Guys here needed to chill out for a minute. No to gallo, no to nene, no to west, etc.
Kieff will have a chip on his shoulder and. Let's see what chandler can offer as a leader. Grow the kids. Let leur play a lotand see if his shooting can help.

I can't understand why, on such a cheap contact, people want to deal away kieff. He's productive.

I'd only do it for Thompson if we had to.
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Re: 

Post#78 » by SkinnyOMiller » Sat Jul 4, 2015 10:59 pm

DarkHawk wrote:Guys here needed to chill out for a minute. No to gallo, no to nene, no to west, etc.
Kieff will have a chip on his shoulder and. Let's see what chandler can offer as a leader. Grow the kids. Let leur play a lotand see if his shooting can help.

I can't understand why, on such a cheap contact, people want to deal away kieff. He's productive.

I'd only do it for Thompson if we had to.



This, Morris is being incredibly underrated. Its not like there's a whole bunch of better options out there. I'd be happy with another veteran guy like a Stoudemire to back up PF, a wing shooter or a backup PG like Ish Smith.
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Re: 

Post#79 » by Kerrsed » Sat Jul 4, 2015 10:59 pm

DarkHawk wrote:Would anyone:

Offer Thompson the max. If they don't match then deal kieff. Thoughts?


Sorry, I'm a bit leery of mediocre players who have a big uptic all of a sudden after playing with the best player in the league.

It's almost like how other players would benefit from playing with Nash, then once they leave they arnt half the player people/teams thought they were.

That, in a nutshell, is what I think of Thompson and his situation.
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Re: Re: 

Post#80 » by SkinnyOMiller » Sat Jul 4, 2015 11:01 pm

Kerrsed wrote:
DarkHawk wrote:Would anyone:

Offer Thompson the max. If they don't match then deal kieff. Thoughts?


Sorry, I'm a bit leery of mediocre players who have a big uptic all of a sudden after playing with the best player in the league.

It's almost like how other players would benefit from playing with Nash, then once they leave they arnt half the player people/teams thought they were.

That, in a nutshell, is what I think of Thompson and his situation.



I agree, I want no part of him, he's not a max level player and wouldn't be a difference maker. Nobody that is left is worth a max contract(other than LBJ), the Suns should try to carryover cap space to go hard after a free agent next year.

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