The 2016 Offseason Thread

[darealjuice]

$145 million for 4 years of Evan Turner and Allen Crabbe? I can't say I understand that.

Nets probably missing out on Tyler Johnson too, but at least they're making the Heat and Blazers overpay for these bench guys.

good for the players
but those are , in my opinion, two horrible moves long term for the Blazers
they signed Meyers Leonard to a four year deal today too - at least it seems like a good one 41/4
But Turner and Crabbe have just killed your cap space.
Hello 7th seed forever

My thoughts exactly. They have $78 million locked up in cap space through 2019 in just Dame, Evan Turner, Allen Crabbe, and Meyers Leonard, not to mention they're going to have to pay CJ a lot of money to hold onto him next offseason. There's a good chance they'll have almost $100 million locked up between an All Star, an above average starter, and 3 role players next offseason, probably not good for the future.

[darealjuice]

one last thought:

y'all are lemmings.

here's the deal: you heap unlimited praise onto Booker because the media does. you give Brandon Knight unlimited scrutiny not because he's the worst player in the league, but because the media has no confidence in him. you think Booker is better than Warren at this point because the media hypes 19 year olds more than 23 year olds.

you're desperate for answers. I get that. we have the third longest playoff drought in the league. (however, we have the 10th longest drought since we won a playoff series. that should be more important. who cares about losing in the first round? not me.)

no one will argue with the fact that putting the entire franchise on Booker's back right now, despite his maturity, is a bad idea. he's 19 years old. LeBron wasn't ready, and neither will Devin Booker be, at least not for another 3 or 4 years. he looked great against the Blazers, but it's Summer League.

let's keep Brandon Knight. let's trust Earl to put the best lineup on the floor. let's give B. Knight the benefit of the doubt, and say that he was a bit messed up on account of injuries. let's see what happens when he steps on the floor. let's appreciate the fact that we can start either Booker or Warren, or bring one or both of them off the bench. we've got great depth.

in the last couple of days, Jared Dudley and Ryan McDonough have both echoed my long-standing sentiment: that despite external expectations, the Suns believe they will contend for a playoff spot this season.

let's try that. you'll see. if you can't, then you're a blind lemming. there are way too many of those in this world.....use your head, and you'll see that there are reasons, not excuses, for last season. there is a very clear explanation as to why we'll be better next season. don't fight it. just wait and see.

I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but I really think Booker is a better basketball player than TJ, and I'm really high on TJ. He's a better shooter, ball handler, and playmaker than Warren already, but TJ is probably a better raw scorer, and neither are particularly good defenders at this point in their careers.

I also don't think that Booker is going to have the franchise placed on his back right now, it seems like Watson and the team's approach is for everyone to hold eachother accountable, although it seems like Bledsoe will end up being/is trying to be the de facto leader of the team, which I'm good with. I don't know if it'd be a terrible idea for Booker to be a leader for the team right now, but it seems like they're trying to groom him into that role as opposed to throwing him into it.

Other than that, I'm agree with what you're saying, I'm fine giving Knight a shot to play under Watson and Triano, even if the end goal is just to build his trade value back up. I don't know if I think the team will be ready to make the playoffs this year, but I'd rather us give it our all and try and make it happen then give up and coast the season to the lottery.

[jcsunsfan]

one last thought:

y'all are lemmings.

here's the deal: you heap unlimited praise onto Booker because the media does. you give Brandon Knight unlimited scrutiny not because he's the worst player in the league, but because the media has no confidence in him. you think Booker is better than Warren at this point because the media hypes 19 year olds more than 23 year olds.

you're desperate for answers. I get that. we have the third longest playoff drought in the league. (however, we have the 10th longest drought since we won a playoff series. that should be more important. who cares about losing in the first round? not me.)

no one will argue with the fact that putting the entire franchise on Booker's back right now, despite his maturity, is a bad idea. he's 19 years old. LeBron wasn't ready, and neither will Devin Booker be, at least not for another 3 or 4 years. he looked great against the Blazers, but it's Summer League.

let's keep Brandon Knight. let's trust Earl to put the best lineup on the floor. let's give B. Knight the benefit of the doubt, and say that he was a bit messed up on account of injuries. let's see what happens when he steps on the floor. let's appreciate the fact that we can start either Booker or Warren, or bring one or both of them off the bench. we've got great depth.

in the last couple of days, Jared Dudley and Ryan McDonough have both echoed my long-standing sentiment: that despite external expectations, the Suns believe they will contend for a playoff spot this season.

let's try that. you'll see. if you can't, then you're a blind lemming. there are way too many of those in this world.....use your head, and you'll see that there are reasons, not excuses, for last season. there is a very clear explanation as to why we'll be better next season. don't fight it. just wait and see.

Funny. I completely disagree with the way your post starts. Not lemmings, not praising Booker because the media does, not putting the franchise on Booker's back (he is taking it only his back himself, but the team is not expected to contend for a title so he can grow into it), not down on B. Knight because of the media (there are pretty astutue fans here who actually watch him play, and are down on him for his hero ball and selfishness on the court), not down on TJ at all.

Then, all of a sudden, I agree with what you are saying--sort of. Yes trust Earl, most here do. Yes, lets keep Knight and see how he fits (although we do glut of guards). Most here would be glad to keep Knight if he would willingly come off the bench, which would be good for both him and the team. And yes, lets start to get better, even if it means going out in the first round. We have committed to a real rebuild, so going out in the first round now would be a step toward better things rather than fighting against an inevitable slide like it was several years ago.

Not sure the lemmings comment was accurate, wise, or helpful.

[Puff]

The Suns have too many guards. There are six guards that need to play. Look at the rotation (Gambo said Knight will backup Bledsoe):

PG: Bledsoe/Knight/Ulis
SG: Booker/Barbosa/Goodwin

How can you please all of them with sufficient minutes. You cannot. There is no way the Suns signed Barbosa for 4 million a year to keep him on the bench. Booker and Bledsoe are the clear starters and will get at least 30 minutes per game. I also do not see Booker playing small forward and going with a Bledsoe/Knight/Booker lineup. Not with Warren and Tucker still on the team. And do not forget Dudley plays small forward too. Even Bender looks like he can play small forward. When you have so much talent, length, and versatility, you do not play a small dual point guard lineup. Knight is the guy that needs to go. There is no point in having a player on the team that wants to be the main ball handler and play at least 30 minutes a game when the team already has players that do that. Knight needs to be on a team where he is the starting point guard and not fighting for minutes.

Everyone seems to think that Booker is not going to play the three. Well I think you are completely wrong in that belief. This will surely happen after the trade for LB, unless Knight is traded.

I foresee our starting lineup on opening to be as follows:

C - Chandler or Len (This is the only position of question)
PF - Dudley
SF - Booker - (maybe Warren but my money is on Booker starting)
SG - Knight
PG - Bledsoe

It surely could be our best lineup at crunch time, unless one of the rookies step up, which likely will not happen early in the year.

The writing has been on the wall since Watson was hired on as coach. He said he saw Booker at the three as viable, as I remember.

If that is the Suns starting lineup or best lineup in crunch time, I expect them to lose every night. They would be the worst team in basketball. That lineup would be 6'1", 6'3", 6'6, and 6'7" at positions 1-4. How are they supposed to defend? They would get destroyed. How could that team defend Curry at 6'3", Thompson at 6'7", and Durant at almost 7'. You want Booker guarding Durant?

If I had to choose, I would trade Knight and Tucker and start Bledsoe, Booker, Warren, Bender, and Len. Ulis, Barbosa, Dudley, Chriss, and Chandler would be my second team. Goodwin and Williams can round out the bench or Goodwin can play more if he shoots better.

I also find this Dudley at the four spot hilarious. Does anybody realize that with Dudley playing power forward, the Wizards knew they were not going anywhere and traded for Markieff. That team was 24-28 in the East with Dudley playing power forward. This is a team that made the second round of the playoffs two years in a row prior to Dudley going there. With Dudley and then Markieff playing power forward, they did not even make the playoffs. They got worse with Dudley on the team. Do people not remember that? If the Suns play Dudley at the four spot, they will suck. I do not care about Bender or Chriss' ages. Talent is what matters. I would play them immediately and let them develop rather than suck with mediocre players playing just because they are veterans.

You can call it hilarious but I can see it happening unless Watson all of a sudden falls in love with Warren. God forbid he starts Tucker, anywhere. He might just do that, unfortunately.

The league is all about putting their best players on the floor. The Warriors won a championship that way that last year and the Cavs followed suit this year. They both played a version of small ball. The Cav's basically won a championship this year with a PF at center (Thompson), I doubt they would have missed Love at all. What happened to Mosgov? The Warriors won with Draymond Green playing their most important minutes at the 5.

To go back in time in 1975 the Warriors actually created small ball with George Johnson and Clifford Ray splitting the minutes at the 5. They started each game with 12 fouls and used them aggressively. They really had no one you could call a legit PF on that team, they were fantastic. I can see us using Chandler and Len in a similar fashion this season. We do not need them to be scorers we need them to dominate the paint on both ends. I really think both are more than capable of doing that. We will see how it turns out.

[MrMiyagi]

How awful is Brooklyn going to be this season? Lost their two biggest FA signings... Will Boston draft #1 next season?

[sunsbum]

one last thought:

y'all are lemmings.

here's the deal: you heap unlimited praise onto Booker because the media does. you give Brandon Knight unlimited scrutiny not because he's the worst player in the league, but because the media has no confidence in him. you think Booker is better than Warren at this point because the media hypes 19 year olds more than 23 year olds.

you're desperate for answers. I get that. we have the third longest playoff drought in the league. (however, we have the 10th longest drought since we won a playoff series. that should be more important. who cares about losing in the first round? not me.)

no one will argue with the fact that putting the entire franchise on Booker's back right now, despite his maturity, is a bad idea. he's 19 years old. LeBron wasn't ready, and neither will Devin Booker be, at least not for another 3 or 4 years. he looked great against the Blazers, but it's Summer League.

let's keep Brandon Knight. let's trust Earl to put the best lineup on the floor. let's give B. Knight the benefit of the doubt, and say that he was a bit messed up on account of injuries. let's see what happens when he steps on the floor. let's appreciate the fact that we can start either Booker or Warren, or bring one or both of them off the bench. we've got great depth.

in the last couple of days, Jared Dudley and Ryan McDonough have both echoed my long-standing sentiment: that despite external expectations, the Suns believe they will contend for a playoff spot this season.

let's try that. you'll see. if you can't, then you're a blind lemming. there are way too many of those in this world.....use your head, and you'll see that there are reasons, not excuses, for last season. there is a very clear explanation as to why we'll be better next season. don't fight it. just wait and see.

If you cant see why Booker deserves the praise hes gotten and BK on the other end of the stick you just wasted a lot of time typing.

[Qwigglez]

I feel like it's McD's job to help the Nets. Give the Nets Tucker/Goodwin for an "I owe you one." Maybe Archie plays like a savage over there, really don't give two craps if he starts putting up some solid numbers because we are pretty much set at the guard position anyway. I don't want the Celtics to get another high draft pick because then they can put together a better package of picks for an all-star than we can.

[8on]

one last thought:

y'all are lemmings.

here's the deal: you heap unlimited praise onto Booker because the media does. you give Brandon Knight unlimited scrutiny not because he's the worst player in the league, but because the media has no confidence in him. you think Booker is better than Warren at this point because the media hypes 19 year olds more than 23 year olds.

you're desperate for answers. I get that. we have the third longest playoff drought in the league. (however, we have the 10th longest drought since we won a playoff series. that should be more important. who cares about losing in the first round? not me.)

no one will argue with the fact that putting the entire franchise on Booker's back right now, despite his maturity, is a bad idea. he's 19 years old. LeBron wasn't ready, and neither will Devin Booker be, at least not for another 3 or 4 years. he looked great against the Blazers, but it's Summer League.

let's keep Brandon Knight. let's trust Earl to put the best lineup on the floor. let's give B. Knight the benefit of the doubt, and say that he was a bit messed up on account of injuries. let's see what happens when he steps on the floor. let's appreciate the fact that we can start either Booker or Warren, or bring one or both of them off the bench. we've got great depth.

in the last couple of days, Jared Dudley and Ryan McDonough have both echoed my long-standing sentiment: that despite external expectations, the Suns believe they will contend for a playoff spot this season.

let's try that. you'll see. if you can't, then you're a blind lemming. there are way too many of those in this world.....use your head, and you'll see that there are reasons, not excuses, for last season. there is a very clear explanation as to why we'll be better next season. don't fight it. just wait and see.

If you cant see why Booker deserves the praise hes gotten and BK on the other end of the stick you just wasted a lot of time typing.

I never said anything resembling that. I can see the praise for Booker's potential. I can see the reasons for Knight's criticism, but you guys are absolutely multiplying 1 by 1 and getting 7. Knight was hurt. Booker is 19. The reason you guys can ignore those realities is because without knowing it, you're probably letting ESPN tell you what to think. It's the same reason Burns and Gambo say we're rebuilding. We won 38 games two seasons ago. The biggest difference between that season and this one is that we finished that season with Bledsoe, but not this one.

No doubt there's a social component to this. If everyone on this forum says one thing, and everyone on ESPN echoes that, people without the audacity to believe things, and/or question what they hear and see, feel a lot of pressure to conform to the majority. Most people accept that pressure. It's a failing of our society, but when we defy expectations next year, as we did in the exact same situation three years ago, ask yourself why you and everyone else thought this team wouldn't be good next season.

[Qwigglez]

one last thought:

y'all are lemmings.

here's the deal: you heap unlimited praise onto Booker because the media does. you give Brandon Knight unlimited scrutiny not because he's the worst player in the league, but because the media has no confidence in him. you think Booker is better than Warren at this point because the media hypes 19 year olds more than 23 year olds.

you're desperate for answers. I get that. we have the third longest playoff drought in the league. (however, we have the 10th longest drought since we won a playoff series. that should be more important. who cares about losing in the first round? not me.)

no one will argue with the fact that putting the entire franchise on Booker's back right now, despite his maturity, is a bad idea. he's 19 years old. LeBron wasn't ready, and neither will Devin Booker be, at least not for another 3 or 4 years. he looked great against the Blazers, but it's Summer League.

let's keep Brandon Knight. let's trust Earl to put the best lineup on the floor. let's give B. Knight the benefit of the doubt, and say that he was a bit messed up on account of injuries. let's see what happens when he steps on the floor. let's appreciate the fact that we can start either Booker or Warren, or bring one or both of them off the bench. we've got great depth.

in the last couple of days, Jared Dudley and Ryan McDonough have both echoed my long-standing sentiment: that despite external expectations, the Suns believe they will contend for a playoff spot this season.

let's try that. you'll see. if you can't, then you're a blind lemming. there are way too many of those in this world.....use your head, and you'll see that there are reasons, not excuses, for last season. there is a very clear explanation as to why we'll be better next season. don't fight it. just wait and see.

Complete BS man. Just loads and loads of fluff. Nobody is praising Booker just because the media does, we're all Suns fans and we all watch the games, he passes the eye test quite clear. Booker IS better than Warren. Warren is a great scorer, but he's still limited and he plays within his limitations.

No one is also giving Knight unlimited amount of scrutiny, he is getting the same amount of scrutiny as every other player on our roster when they deserve it (okay maybe he gets more). Oh, and it's not because the media has no confidence in Knight, it's again, the eye test, that's really a silly argument. I don't think anyone wants to trade him for the sake of trading him, I think we all want him gone because he impedes Booker's development. At this point, I'm fine with Knight on the roster and I doubt he is going anywhere. We brought in LB/Dudley and I think they can both convince him to take a 6th man role and still not see his playing time diminish.

Most of what you said I have no clue where you heard all that from. Nobody is desperate for answers, I think we've all been pretty excited as to what has been happening all summer and know what is to come.I think many posters here believe the Suns will fight for a playoff spot.

[8on]

i didn't hear anything. i've tried to read between the lines, and i understand the pressure of conformity. it is what it is, and it's potent.

by no metric is Booker better than Knight, Bledsoe or Warren. last season TJ was even a better shooter, although I understand why Booker didn't shoot well.

the eye test is deceiving. that's the point of analytics.

of course we're desperate for answers. of course we want to make the playoffs. you can bandage the wound, but i know what's under there. we long for the glory days, and we're disappointed that Nash couldn't take us to the promised land. so we might get a little ahead of ourselves, trying to get back to prominence.

the acidic reaction to what i've suggested, which is simply a way of explaining how bias feeds into the conversation, is exactly why i'll try not to post from this point on, as i intended.

[sunsbum]

What a weird take lol.

[sunsbum]

Booker is better than all those guys and it involves a ton more than %'s and anylitics.

[8on]

Not sure the lemmings comment was accurate, wise, or helpful.

You're right. It wasn't. It was meant to fight emotion with emotion. But, if I say it that way, perhaps it'll get people thinking.

Do I just think Booker is better than Warren because everyone else says so, or because I'm afraid to get chewed out on this forum?

Why is that the case? What do numbers tell me? Besides benefit of the doubt, in which areas is Booker better than Warren or Knight? Any?

[Qwigglez]

The only media I get is what posters on this forum say. I watch Suns games online, I don't watch ESPN, I don't listen to podcasts, I don't reiterate what expert analyst say. I highly doubt many posters here are formulating their opinion on the Suns based on what ESPN/podcasts say.

[lilfishi22]

I'd say versatility is one area Booker is ahead of Warren. Warren at this point in time is fairly one dimensional but he's certainly above average when it comes to that one skill. Booker can score off assists and off his own abilities, he can pass and he can make plays. We're talking about a kid who was 19 when he showed more advanced skills compared to a TJ who had 3 extra years (he's 22) of development and experience.

[jredsaz]

Booker is better than all those guys and it involves a ton more than %'s and anylitics.

Booker isn't right now but he has the potential to be a superior player.

[dremill24]

Not sure the lemmings comment was accurate, wise, or helpful.

You're right. It wasn't. It was meant to fight emotion with emotion. But, if I say it that way, perhaps it'll get people thinking.

Do I just think Booker is better than Warren because everyone else says so, or because I'm afraid to get chewed out on this forum?

Why is that the case? What do numbers tell me? Besides benefit of the doubt, in which areas is Booker better than Warren or Knight? Any?

Serious question..there was a guy here who was posting and in the midst of it mentioned that they really dont watch the games much. Was that you?

[sunsbum]

Booker is better than all those guys and it involves a ton more than %'s and anylitics.

Booker isn't right now but he has the potential to be a superior player.

He is right now.

[Blackification]

Booker is better than Knight and Warren, but probably not Bledsoe.

[Barkley6]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/WojVerticalNBA/status/752247796263055360[/tweet]

Wow!

Suns need to offer Harkless NOW.