Season speculation, free agency, and trade ideas: #ValleyBoyz rise up

[darmani]

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[ImNotMcDiSwear]

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Were you a big Danuel House fan when he was here last season?

[itlnsunsfan]

Who?

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Who?

darmani. Just asking because of his preceding post, regarding JJ, which was pretty harsh.

I liked House. I liked Jones Jr., too. And of course, I've always loved TJ's game. But Jackson's been a rollercoaster. Some people ready to jump off. Odd timing, I think. Just as the team's starting to come around, with JJ playing rotation minutes (and not killing us in those minutes). I think we're invested in him. Might as well see it through. If we don't, seeing Jackson succeed with another team will feel a whooole lot worse than it feels to watch House and Jones Jr.

[Blonde]

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It won't be easy for us to open up room for him Kemba and keep Oubre, but it's possible if we get creative. I'd guess it will probably be Knicks, Pacers, or Lakers if not Charlotte though.

[Crives]

Who?

darmani. Just asking because of his preceding post, regarding JJ, which was pretty harsh.

I liked House. I liked Jones Jr., too. And of course, I've always loved TJ's game. But Jackson's been a rollercoaster. Some people ready to jump off. Odd timing, I think. Just as the team's starting to come around, with JJ playing rotation minutes (and not killing us in those minutes). I think we're invested in him. Might as well see it through. If we don't, seeing Jackson succeed with another team will feel a whooole lot worse than it feels to watch House and Jones Jr.

Long term I am feeling more and more that Jackson will not be a part of our core with the emergence of Bridges/Oubre and TJ finding a 3p shot. I do think we have time to let him develop to increase his trade value for a future asset. I really don’t want to see us lose him for nothing.

[lilfishi22]

Anyone still like the idea of Klove at PF for a couple seasons? Or would you guys prefer Larry Nance?

Oh I'm all for Lance. He's a low usage, athletic, high activity, rebounding, passing, 3PT shooting (kinda) and relatively cheap declining $11m a year PF.

[bwgood77]

Anyone still like the idea of Klove at PF for a couple seasons? Or would you guys prefer Larry Nance?

Nance. He's defense....still a decent rebounder, can hit the 3, is younger by 4 years, etc. I doubt Cleveland gives him up but they do have Thompson and seem(ed) committed to Love. With a high pick, Sexton developing, Love returning, etc, I think they will try and compete and want to keep Love.

But just look at the comparison....BPM, DBPM, per 36 steals, blocks, assists, fg%, etc. He does the little things like steals (which is becoming our identity), good passer, efficient inside, can hit the 3, solid defender, etc.

http://bkref.com/tiny/KqNjl

[bwgood77]

Who?

darmani. Just asking because of his preceding post, regarding JJ, which was pretty harsh.

I liked House. I liked Jones Jr., too. And of course, I've always loved TJ's game. But Jackson's been a rollercoaster. Some people ready to jump off. Odd timing, I think. Just as the team's starting to come around, with JJ playing rotation minutes (and not killing us in those minutes). I think we're invested in him. Might as well see it through. If we don't, seeing Jackson succeed with another team will feel a whooole lot worse than it feels to watch House and Jones Jr.

I don't know what gives you any indication Jackson will develop that much more. He was already older than his draft class, has one of the worst BPMs, OBPMs, VORP, ORPM, etc, ever. I don't think a small stretch of hitting 3s is enough to think he will turn it around. Have you seen those NBA Math charts of 2nd year players?

[lilfishi22]

Honestly, I really think the phrase "defying historical odds" should be something that is used more often when talking about young players. Too often have I seen bad players with potential talked about as if they are at the cusp of turning into a legitimately good player but objectively, they would have to defy historical odds for that to happen.

[King4Day]

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It won't be easy for us to open up room for him Kemba and keep Oubre, but it's possible if we get creative. I'd guess it will probably be Knicks, Pacers, or Lakers if not Charlotte though.

I said it a few days ago that if he were willing to come here, I'm sure we could offer up a couple of players for the Hornets, like Warren and/or Jackson. That would free up some space to prevent us from having to dump many players to make room.

I just hope we get a meeting with him. That's the first thing. If we keep up this good play, I don't see why he wouldn't at least consider us.

Unfortunately, a friend thinks Dallas will be the team to sign him. They have the room, they have a great owner, and they have a great core with another high pick possibly incoming.

[lilfishi22]

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It won't be easy for us to open up room for him Kemba and keep Oubre, but it's possible if we get creative. I'd guess it will probably be Knicks, Pacers, or Lakers if not Charlotte though.

I said it a few days ago that if he were willing to come here, I'm sure we could offer up a couple of players for the Hornets, like Warren and/or Jackson. That would free up some space to prevent us from having to dump many players to make room.

I just hope we get a meeting with him. That's the first thing. If we keep up this good play, I don't see why he wouldn't at least consider us.

Unfortunately, a friend thinks Dallas will be the team to sign him. They have the room, they have a great owner, and they have a great core with another high pick possibly incoming.

If we can even get a sit down with a guy of his caliber, I think that's already a win. I know it's a low bar for 'success' but the fact that our team's image has been tarnished both by our own doing and by the media coverage, if we can get Kemba to even remotely consider us, I think that means we've at least started to repair our reputation around the league.

I personally think Dallas has bigger fish to fry when their max cap space but if I was Kemba, I would love to sign a long term deal with Dallas for all the reasons you've mentioned.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Who?

darmani. Just asking because of his preceding post, regarding JJ, which was pretty harsh.

I liked House. I liked Jones Jr., too. And of course, I've always loved TJ's game. But Jackson's been a rollercoaster. Some people ready to jump off. Odd timing, I think. Just as the team's starting to come around, with JJ playing rotation minutes (and not killing us in those minutes). I think we're invested in him. Might as well see it through. If we don't, seeing Jackson succeed with another team will feel a whooole lot worse than it feels to watch House and Jones Jr.

I don't know what gives you any indication Jackson will develop that much more. He was already older than his draft class, has one of the worst BPMs, OBPMs, VORP, ORPM, etc, ever. I don't think a small stretch of hitting 3s is enough to think he will turn it around. Have you seen those NBA Math charts of 2nd year players?

What do you think about Marcus Smart's sudden increase in 3FG% this season? Wasn't that, like, impossible?

Of course I've seen the charts, bw. You really think there's a post on this message board I don't read?

[bwgood77]

darmani. Just asking because of his preceding post, regarding JJ, which was pretty harsh.

I liked House. I liked Jones Jr., too. And of course, I've always loved TJ's game. But Jackson's been a rollercoaster. Some people ready to jump off. Odd timing, I think. Just as the team's starting to come around, with JJ playing rotation minutes (and not killing us in those minutes). I think we're invested in him. Might as well see it through. If we don't, seeing Jackson succeed with another team will feel a whooole lot worse than it feels to watch House and Jones Jr.

I don't know what gives you any indication Jackson will develop that much more. He was already older than his draft class, has one of the worst BPMs, OBPMs, VORP, ORPM, etc, ever. I don't think a small stretch of hitting 3s is enough to think he will turn it around. Have you seen those NBA Math charts of 2nd year players?

What do you think about Marcus Smart's sudden increase in 3FG% this season? Wasn't that, like, impossible?

Of course I've seen the charts, bw. You really think there's a post on this message board I don't read?

Well of course guys CAN, and Jackson maybe could....you have Warren and Smart, both of which were better FT shooters, but of course Smart is an ELITE defender, and has almost a 3-1 ast/to ratio. Jackson can take it to the rim but he doesn't finish well...and if he did he'd get fouled, and he's not a good FT shooter....he turns it over as much as he assists, and he's a neutral defender...has energy but not the wingspan or smarts for great team D. Even if he had a good 3 I don't think he provides enough else.

Would you really rather not use what we spend on him when we have better players at his position? A premier defender, a premier scorer and kind of an energy glue great locker room guy?

[lilfishi22]

I'm not an NFL guy but this OBJ trade seems to be a big thing. Can someone come up with an NBA trade that would be equivalent to this OBJ trade so I can comprehend how big of a deal this is?

Thank you

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

I don't know what gives you any indication Jackson will develop that much more. He was already older than his draft class, has one of the worst BPMs, OBPMs, VORP, ORPM, etc, ever. I don't think a small stretch of hitting 3s is enough to think he will turn it around. Have you seen those NBA Math charts of 2nd year players?

What do you think about Marcus Smart's sudden increase in 3FG% this season? Wasn't that, like, impossible?

Of course I've seen the charts, bw. You really think there's a post on this message board I don't read?

Well of course guys CAN, and Jackson maybe could....you have Warren and Smart, both of which were better FT shooters, but of course Smart is an ELITE defender, and has almost a 3-1 ast/to ratio. Jackson can take it to the rim but he doesn't finish well...and if he did he'd get fouled, and he's not a good FT shooter....he turns it over as much as he assists, and he's a neutral defender...has energy but not the wingspan or smarts for great team D. Even if he had a good 3 I don't think he provides enough else.

Would you really rather not use what we spend on him when we have better players at his position? A premier defender, a premier scorer and kind of an energy glue great locker room guy?

I don't know. Ask me at the end of the season. If the team keeps playing like this, then I'm not moving any of the guys we're currently playing. TJ's the guy I move, because he's the most valuable, he's deserving of a starting role that is not available here, he doesn't fit with the defensive orientation of the squad, and the rest of this group is developing chemistry and an identity. Not saying TJ couldn't fit in and take JJ's minutes - he could. But I don't think that's going to happen. I expect that we will continue to try to mold JJ into a premier defender, a premier scorer and kind of an energy glue great locker room guy (all in one). Add strength, be steady on those open catch-and-shoot threes, and add even more strength. He's got the same wingspan as Jimmy Butler: it's not a death sentence for his defense.

[bwgood77]

What do you think about Marcus Smart's sudden increase in 3FG% this season? Wasn't that, like, impossible?

Of course I've seen the charts, bw. You really think there's a post on this message board I don't read?

Well of course guys CAN, and Jackson maybe could....you have Warren and Smart, both of which were better FT shooters, but of course Smart is an ELITE defender, and has almost a 3-1 ast/to ratio. Jackson can take it to the rim but he doesn't finish well...and if he did he'd get fouled, and he's not a good FT shooter....he turns it over as much as he assists, and he's a neutral defender...has energy but not the wingspan or smarts for great team D. Even if he had a good 3 I don't think he provides enough else.

Would you really rather not use what we spend on him when we have better players at his position? A premier defender, a premier scorer and kind of an energy glue great locker room guy?

I don't know. Ask me at the end of the season. If the team keeps playing like this, then I'm not moving any of the guys we're currently playing. TJ's the guy I move, because he's the most valuable, he's deserving of a starting role that is not available here, he doesn't fit with the defensive orientation of the squad, and the rest of this group is developing chemistry and an identity. Not saying TJ couldn't fit in and take JJ's minutes - he could. But I don't think that's going to happen. I expect that we will continue to try to mold JJ into a premier defender, a premier scorer and kind of an energy glue great locker room guy (all in one). Add strength, be steady on those open catch-and-shoot threes, and add even more strength. He's got the same wingspan as Jimmy Butler: it's not a death sentence for his defense.

TJ has really improved as a defender and you need guys with different roles...we NEED his shooting and efficient scoring. I understand he may have value but maybe not as much with the injuries...not as much as we need him due to the lack of efficient scoring and 3pt shooting. He is a hard worker.

Again, about his defense, I mean he doesn't rack up all the counting stats like rebounds and blocks which hurts is DBPM a bit but his team defense is better than Oubre's and probably Jackson's which shows up in DRPM, despite playing with Booker and Ayton much of the year (before Ayton improved a great deal on D). He is well ahead of Oubre there and ahead right there with Jackson.

While Oubre and Jackson may have more highlight plays they can get out of position more and not rotate well. I think TJ works hard and will be the right balance because Oubre, Bridges and TJ have different strengths.

If we can add Zion or Clarke and keep those guys, I like our squad. I'm still high on the potential of Melton and even Okobo under Igor and think with Tyler one more year, they can develop. We may lose Melton since he has one year left but also if we can't add another PG this year for cheap (McConnell?) then we could add one next year when Jackson comes off, if we can't deal him sooner to clear cap space to sign a PG. The Cavs may need a SF or maybe the Pelicans roll the dice if they rebuild. Then we could add some 3 pt shooting, leadership and a good ball handler in Collison.

[Revived]

I'm not an NFL guy but this OBJ trade seems to be a big thing. Can someone come up with an NBA trade that would be equivalent to this OBJ trade so I can comprehend how big of a deal this is?

Thank you

Westbrook being traded.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Well of course guys CAN, and Jackson maybe could....you have Warren and Smart, both of which were better FT shooters, but of course Smart is an ELITE defender, and has almost a 3-1 ast/to ratio. Jackson can take it to the rim but he doesn't finish well...and if he did he'd get fouled, and he's not a good FT shooter....he turns it over as much as he assists, and he's a neutral defender...has energy but not the wingspan or smarts for great team D. Even if he had a good 3 I don't think he provides enough else.

Would you really rather not use what we spend on him when we have better players at his position? A premier defender, a premier scorer and kind of an energy glue great locker room guy?

I don't know. Ask me at the end of the season. If the team keeps playing like this, then I'm not moving any of the guys we're currently playing. TJ's the guy I move, because he's the most valuable, he's deserving of a starting role that is not available here, he doesn't fit with the defensive orientation of the squad, and the rest of this group is developing chemistry and an identity. Not saying TJ couldn't fit in and take JJ's minutes - he could. But I don't think that's going to happen. I expect that we will continue to try to mold JJ into a premier defender, a premier scorer and kind of an energy glue great locker room guy (all in one). Add strength, be steady on those open catch-and-shoot threes, and add even more strength. He's got the same wingspan as Jimmy Butler: it's not a death sentence for his defense.

TJ has really improved as a defender and you need guys with different roles...we NEED his shooting and efficient scoring. I understand he may have value but maybe not as much with the injuries...not as much as we need him due to the lack of efficient scoring and 3pt shooting. He is a hard worker.

Again, about his defense, I mean he doesn't rack up all the counting stats like rebounds and blocks but his team defense is better than Oubre's and probably Jackson's which shows up in DRPM, despite playing with Booker and Ayton much of the year (before Ayton improved a great deal on D). He is well ahead of Oubre there and ahead right there with Jackson.

While Oubre and Jackson may have more highlight plays they can get out of position more and not rotate well. I think TJ works hard and will be the right balance because Oubre, Bridges and TJ have different strengths.

If we can add Zion or Clarke and keep those guys, I like our squad. I'm still high on the potential of Melton and even Okobo under Igor and think with Tyler one more year, they can develop. We may lose Melton since he has one year left but also if we can't add another PG this year for cheap (McConnell?) then we could add one next year when Jackson comes off, if we can't deal him sooner to clear cap space to sign a PG. The Cavs may need a SF or maybe the Pelicans roll the dice if they rebuild. Then we could add some 3 pt shooting, leadership and a good ball handler in Collison.

Perfectly respectable take. You make a good point about balancing defensive styles. We agree on Clarke of course because obviously. The JJ/TJ question is the substantial issue for the franchise this summer. Not surprising that we would find ourselves on either side of it. It's a good question.

[suns12345]

I don't know. Ask me at the end of the season. If the team keeps playing like this, then I'm not moving any of the guys we're currently playing. TJ's the guy I move, because he's the most valuable, he's deserving of a starting role that is not available here, he doesn't fit with the defensive orientation of the squad, and the rest of this group is developing chemistry and an identity. Not saying TJ couldn't fit in and take JJ's minutes - he could. But I don't think that's going to happen. I expect that we will continue to try to mold JJ into a premier defender, a premier scorer and kind of an energy glue great locker room guy (all in one). Add strength, be steady on those open catch-and-shoot threes, and add even more strength. He's got the same wingspan as Jimmy Butler: it's not a death sentence for his defense.

TJ has really improved as a defender and you need guys with different roles...we NEED his shooting and efficient scoring. I understand he may have value but maybe not as much with the injuries...not as much as we need him due to the lack of efficient scoring and 3pt shooting. He is a hard worker.

Again, about his defense, I mean he doesn't rack up all the counting stats like rebounds and blocks but his team defense is better than Oubre's and probably Jackson's which shows up in DRPM, despite playing with Booker and Ayton much of the year (before Ayton improved a great deal on D). He is well ahead of Oubre there and ahead right there with Jackson.

While Oubre and Jackson may have more highlight plays they can get out of position more and not rotate well. I think TJ works hard and will be the right balance because Oubre, Bridges and TJ have different strengths.

If we can add Zion or Clarke and keep those guys, I like our squad. I'm still high on the potential of Melton and even Okobo under Igor and think with Tyler one more year, they can develop. We may lose Melton since he has one year left but also if we can't add another PG this year for cheap (McConnell?) then we could add one next year when Jackson comes off, if we can't deal him sooner to clear cap space to sign a PG. The Cavs may need a SF or maybe the Pelicans roll the dice if they rebuild. Then we could add some 3 pt shooting, leadership and a good ball handler in Collison.

Perfectly respectable take. You make a good point about balancing defensive styles. We agree on Clarke of course because obviously. The JJ/TJ question is the substantial issue for the franchise this summer. Not surprising that we would find ourselves on either side of it. It's a good question.

Playing devils advocate a bit, but if Clarke is so good, why wont he shoot up the draft boards? and if he is truly a sleep, whats the reason why phoenix would be the ones to actually pick him?