2020 Preseason Speculation - Lineup battles underway

[bwgood77]

One way to look at this is:

If we had a TON of cap space, and Chris Paul was a FA, would you want to sign him to a 2 year, $85 million contract?

If we had $10 million in cap space, would you trade Rubio AND Oubre to a team like Atlanta who has a ton of cap space to absorb them, for NOTHING in return from Atlanta and THEN sign Paul with the cap space you created to a 2 year, $85 million contract?

And then, the same scenario as the last one, but would you give Atlanta the #10 pick to absorb the Oubre AND Rubio contracts so you could sign CP3 to a 2 year, $85 million contract?

I wonder how people would feel if those were potential scenarios that basically end up with the same result.

[Kerrsed]

An idea im working on:





Still trying to figure out the pick situation (who gets what).

[oddity]

One way to look at this is:

If we had a TON of cap space, and Chris Paul was a FA, would you want to sign him to a 2 year, $85 million contract?

If we had $10 million in cap space, would you trade Rubio AND Oubre to a team like Atlanta who has a ton of cap space to absorb them, for NOTHING in return from Atlanta and THEN sign Paul with the cap space you created to a 2 year, $85 million contract?

And then, the same scenario as the last one, but would you give Atlanta the #10 pick to absorb the Oubre AND Rubio contracts so you could sign CP3 to a 2 year, $85 million contract?

I wonder how people would feel if those were potential scenarios that basically end up with the same result.

But that is not reality. The reality is that CP3 is coming off of a fantastic season and is locked up the next 2 years, giving OKC leverage that in your example Atlanta would never have. The reality is that nobody close to that caliber of player, regardless of age, has actually wanted to play for us in 10 years. Our 44 million is not LA's 44 mill. We have to overpay to get better somehow.

[bwgood77]

One way to look at this is:

If we had a TON of cap space, and Chris Paul was a FA, would you want to sign him to a 2 year, $85 million contract?

If we had $10 million in cap space, would you trade Rubio AND Oubre to a team like Atlanta who has a ton of cap space to absorb them, for NOTHING in return from Atlanta and THEN sign Paul with the cap space you created to a 2 year, $85 million contract?

And then, the same scenario as the last one, but would you give Atlanta the #10 pick to absorb the Oubre AND Rubio contracts so you could sign CP3 to a 2 year, $85 million contract?

I wonder how people would feel if those were potential scenarios that basically end up with the same result.

But that is not reality. The reality is that CP3 is coming off of a fantastic season and is locked up the next 2 years, giving OKC leverage that in your example Atlanta would never have. The reality is that nobody close to that caliber of player, regardless of age, has actually wanted to play for us in 10 years. Our 44 million is not LA's 44 mill. We have to overpay to get better somehow.

It is the exact same result. If he signed with us it would be because he wanted to play with us.

Lets say Paul was coming off the exact same year, which was the lowest ast/game of his entire career. Anyway, I think he is viewed differently, even though he is the same player (though a little better than last year) he has been the last few years when he wasn't an all star.

I am not sure what you mean by Atlanta having leverage. All we would do is be dumping contracts into their cap space. Usually when teams do that because they need to clear space for a FA signing, they have to give up an asset too.

The reality may not be the same but the beginning of the scenario (where our team would be) and the final result (where our team would be at beginning and end) are the exact same.

Obviously if anyone wants to give up assets for him, they'd want to sign him to a 2 year/$85 million contract and would give away assets to clear the space to do so. Why wouldn't they if they'd make the trade? Same thing.

[bwgood77]

An idea im working on:





Still trying to figure out the pick situation (who gets what).

That would be a lot of wings for the Celtics, especially since they start Tatum at the 4 and Brown at the 3. Unless Gordon was going to play C.

[BobbieL]

An idea im working on:





Still trying to figure out the pick situation (who gets what).

I think your OKC Dallas Clippers Suns trade made more sense

maybe the damn thing will fall through
Suns will get Saric back
sign a guard and roll with it

[Crives]

One way to look at this is:

If we had a TON of cap space, and Chris Paul was a FA, would you want to sign him to a 2 year, $85 million contract?

If we had $10 million in cap space, would you trade Rubio AND Oubre to a team like Atlanta who has a ton of cap space to absorb them, for NOTHING in return from Atlanta and THEN sign Paul with the cap space you created to a 2 year, $85 million contract?

And then, the same scenario as the last one, but would you give Atlanta the #10 pick to absorb the Oubre AND Rubio contracts so you could sign CP3 to a 2 year, $85 million contract?

I wonder how people would feel if those were potential scenarios that basically end up with the same result.

Here is how I am looking at it.

Would you sign CP3 to a 1 year $33m contract?
(If we perform trade after FA we can go over cap by 8m)
I would be on the fence about this, likely leaning no.

Now if you tell me that CP3 can help us get FA who would not have considered us and get us bargain deals, allowing us to add an additional 5m to 10m In FA? CP3 on a 23m to 28m contract is something I would likely do if the cost was just Rubio + Oubre.

If we had to add #10 with no picks coming back I would likely lean no again.

If we could flip #10 for #14 + #26, and send Oubre + Rubio + #26... I could get on board with that trade.

[Ghost of Kleine]

An idea im working on:





Still trying to figure out the pick situation (who gets what).

For my part, The picks would be distributed like this:
- Celts/ 25 ( Thunder).
- Magic get 10 ( Phoenix).
- Thunder get 14 ( Boston) and 45 ( Magic).
- Phoenix gets 15 ( Orlando) and 30 ( Boston)? Or something close to that?

[oddity]

One way to look at this is:

If we had a TON of cap space, and Chris Paul was a FA, would you want to sign him to a 2 year, $85 million contract?

If we had $10 million in cap space, would you trade Rubio AND Oubre to a team like Atlanta who has a ton of cap space to absorb them, for NOTHING in return from Atlanta and THEN sign Paul with the cap space you created to a 2 year, $85 million contract?

And then, the same scenario as the last one, but would you give Atlanta the #10 pick to absorb the Oubre AND Rubio contracts so you could sign CP3 to a 2 year, $85 million contract?

I wonder how people would feel if those were potential scenarios that basically end up with the same result.

But that is not reality. The reality is that CP3 is coming off of a fantastic season and is locked up the next 2 years, giving OKC leverage that in your example Atlanta would never have. The reality is that nobody close to that caliber of player, regardless of age, has actually wanted to play for us in 10 years. Our 44 million is not LA's 44 mill. We have to overpay to get better somehow.

It is the exact same result. Lets say Paul was coming off the exact same year. It was the lowest ast/game of his entire career. Anyway, I think he is viewed differently, even though he is the same player (though a little better than last year) he has been the last few years when he wasn't an all star.

I am not sure what you mean by Atlanta having leverage. All we would do is be dumping contracts into their cap space. Usually when teams do that because they need to clear space for a FA signing, they have to give up an asset too.

The reality may not be the same but the beginning of the scenario (where our team would be) and the final result (where our team would be) are the exact same.

Obviously if anyone wants to give up assets for him, they'd want to sign him to a 2 year/$85 million contract and would give away assets to clear the space to do so. Why wouldn't they if they'd make the trade? Same thing.

My point is that although the beginning and end may be the same you are losing all of key important contextual stuff in the middle that matters. We are a team desperate to turn a corner RIGHT NOW. You're talking about our assets like Ryan McD out here.
And even in your example I would do it. I would do it bc we did the same thing with Warren and Rubio and that turned out fine.
Since you want to look at things so mathematically how about this. Are the Suns better with Ricky and Kelly, or CP3 and Gallo? Obviously, it's the latter.

[bwgood77]

One way to look at this is:

If we had a TON of cap space, and Chris Paul was a FA, would you want to sign him to a 2 year, $85 million contract?

If we had $10 million in cap space, would you trade Rubio AND Oubre to a team like Atlanta who has a ton of cap space to absorb them, for NOTHING in return from Atlanta and THEN sign Paul with the cap space you created to a 2 year, $85 million contract?

And then, the same scenario as the last one, but would you give Atlanta the #10 pick to absorb the Oubre AND Rubio contracts so you could sign CP3 to a 2 year, $85 million contract?

I wonder how people would feel if those were potential scenarios that basically end up with the same result.

Here is how I am looking at it.

Would you sign CP3 to a 1 year $33m contract?
(If we perform trade after FA we can go over cap by 8m)
I would be on the fence about this, likely leaning no.

Now if you tell me that CP3 can help us get FA who would not have considered us and get us bargain deals, allowing us to add an additional 5m to 10m In FA? CP3 on a 23m to 28m contract is something I would likely do if the cost was just Rubio + Oubre.

If we had to add #10 with no picks coming back I would likely lean no again.

If we could flip #10 for #14 + #26, and send Oubre + Rubio + #26... I could get on board with that trade.

OK the $33 million makes sense if we do it after FA given that we would be at the cap...or over with minimums to fill out roster. But the fact is we would have him that next year, preventing any free agency moves before our last chance before paying Ayton/Bridges.

Then when Paul is gone we don't have any cap space to sign another PG other than maybe with the MLE. I guess it's possible we might have some depending on Ayton and Bridges' cap holds, unless we give extensions early like with Booker.

Now people talk about him being an expiring and being tradable but we'd still have to take back a huge salary that wasn't expiring. It could be possible to trade him for something like Beal if we throw in a bunch of firsts and a young player, IF Beal wants out, though Paul probably wouldn't be too happy after maneuvering his way to Phx...possibly Booker too.

I agree with your trade ideas. Even though I am presenting the scenarios, I would probably do it for 26 plus the two players if we were able to get 14 and make the pick.

Still be fine either way though. I like Rubio. I like Oubre. I like prospects at #10. Paul is old...and might revert to his injury ways after an anomaly season.

[Dr Ops]

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[BobbieL]

One way to look at this is:

If we had a TON of cap space, and Chris Paul was a FA, would you want to sign him to a 2 year, $85 million contract?

If we had $10 million in cap space, would you trade Rubio AND Oubre to a team like Atlanta who has a ton of cap space to absorb them, for NOTHING in return from Atlanta and THEN sign Paul with the cap space you created to a 2 year, $85 million contract?

And then, the same scenario as the last one, but would you give Atlanta the #10 pick to absorb the Oubre AND Rubio contracts so you could sign CP3 to a 2 year, $85 million contract?

I wonder how people would feel if those were potential scenarios that basically end up with the same result.

I wouldn't give CP3 85/2 this offseason
So I think this is a good way to look at it
I wouldn't give the 10 to do those two things to sign CP3

I know Book wants CP3 (well if reports are true)
Oubre and Rubio might have ruffled feathers so to speak
but i really want this deal to fall through

[bwgood77]

But that is not reality. The reality is that CP3 is coming off of a fantastic season and is locked up the next 2 years, giving OKC leverage that in your example Atlanta would never have. The reality is that nobody close to that caliber of player, regardless of age, has actually wanted to play for us in 10 years. Our 44 million is not LA's 44 mill. We have to overpay to get better somehow.

It is the exact same result. Lets say Paul was coming off the exact same year. It was the lowest ast/game of his entire career. Anyway, I think he is viewed differently, even though he is the same player (though a little better than last year) he has been the last few years when he wasn't an all star.

I am not sure what you mean by Atlanta having leverage. All we would do is be dumping contracts into their cap space. Usually when teams do that because they need to clear space for a FA signing, they have to give up an asset too.

The reality may not be the same but the beginning of the scenario (where our team would be) and the final result (where our team would be) are the exact same.

Obviously if anyone wants to give up assets for him, they'd want to sign him to a 2 year/$85 million contract and would give away assets to clear the space to do so. Why wouldn't they if they'd make the trade? Same thing.

My point is that although the beginning and end may be the same you are losing all of key important contextual stuff in the middle that matters. We are a team desperate to turn a corner RIGHT NOW. You're talking about our assets like Ryan McD out here.
And even in your example I would do it. I would do it bc we did the same thing with Warren and Rubio and that turned out fine.
Since you want to look at things so mathematically how about this. Are the Suns better with Ricky and Kelly, or CP3 and Gallo? Obviously, it's the latter.

The latter for a year IF they are fortunate enough to stay healthy again, CP3 kind of had an anomaly year after his previous 3 years.

But I do feel it is shortsighted, and in the second year we are probably about the same or we sign someone else with Oubre cap space or trade him for nice piece sooner.

I'm probably higher on Rubio than most though. I think there is a good chance given the games likely played, he has as much impact overall this year. However, Paul might be better in the playoffs if healthy, though Rubio was obviously great in the World Cup when he won MVP.

And I think in 2 years Rubio is likely at least as good or better. And 3 years and beyond we are likely a lot better without the trade.

I am eager for a good year, but not necessarily at the cost of the future when we are building something that looks pretty damn good given our play in the bubble and with the small ball lineup with Oubre at PF.

[WeekapaugGroove]

It is the exact same result. Lets say Paul was coming off the exact same year. It was the lowest ast/game of his entire career. Anyway, I think he is viewed differently, even though he is the same player (though a little better than last year) he has been the last few years when he wasn't an all star.

I am not sure what you mean by Atlanta having leverage. All we would do is be dumping contracts into their cap space. Usually when teams do that because they need to clear space for a FA signing, they have to give up an asset too.

The reality may not be the same but the beginning of the scenario (where our team would be) and the final result (where our team would be) are the exact same.

Obviously if anyone wants to give up assets for him, they'd want to sign him to a 2 year/$85 million contract and would give away assets to clear the space to do so. Why wouldn't they if they'd make the trade? Same thing.

My point is that although the beginning and end may be the same you are losing all of key important contextual stuff in the middle that matters. We are a team desperate to turn a corner RIGHT NOW. You're talking about our assets like Ryan McD out here.
And even in your example I would do it. I would do it bc we did the same thing with Warren and Rubio and that turned out fine.
Since you want to look at things so mathematically how about this. Are the Suns better with Ricky and Kelly, or CP3 and Gallo? Obviously, it's the latter.

The latter for a year IF they are fortunate enough to stay healthy again, CP3 kind of had an anomaly year after his previous 3 years.

But I do feel it is shortsighted, and in the second year we are probably about the same or we sign someone else with Oubre cap space or trade him for nice piece sooner.

I'm probably higher on Rubio than most though. I think there is a good chance given the games likely played, he has as much impact overall this year. However, Paul might be better in the playoffs if healthy, though Rubio was obviously great in the World Cup when he won MVP.

And I think in 2 years Rubio is likely at least as good or better. And 3 years and beyond we are likely a lot better without the trade.

I am eager for a good year, but not necessarily at the cost of the future when we are building something that looks pretty damn good given our play in the bubble and with the small ball lineup with Oubre at PF.

You're allowed to continue to make moves in future years and the better you get the easier it is to get guys.

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[Kerrsed]

An idea im working on:





Still trying to figure out the pick situation (who gets what).

That would be a lot of wings for the Celtics, especially since they start Tatum at the 4 and Brown at the 3. Unless Gordon was going to play C.

They get rid of one wing and take back 2. They could also flip Oubre or Gordon for more assets if they like. But this trade would be getting them out of their two largest contracts. Jalen Brown would then become their highest paid player at $22M this upcoming season. They are turning Kemba into a better PG at half the price and making a very questionable Hayward into 2 players that actually have value, Oubre and Gordon.

I know OKC has said they dont want to take on contracts that extend out past this season, but i wonder if its player specific or just outright. I mean we could cut out Boston if OKC likes Gordon:

Spoiler:

or we cut out Boston and OKC could end up with all expiring's with us taking Gordon (Not a fan):

Spoiler:

.....and then there is this one which i kinda like:



ATL absorbs Oubre and moves from #6 to #10
ORL turns Fournier's expiring/Bamba into Rubio/Jerome and moves back from #15 to #25
OKC trades CP3 for Fournier (Saving a ton of money THIS season) and upgrades from #25 to #15
PHX Send out Rubio/Oubre/Jerome for CP3/Bamba and move up 4 spots in the draft (Which we can then flip if we want).

[bwgood77]

You're allowed to continue to make moves in future years and the better you get the easier it is to get guys.

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Sure, if you have the cap space, or want to trade one of our core pieces. Otherwise it's probably small moves with MLE or not much money in FA. I know it could look similar with Rubio except that with him you could re-sign him with Bird rights (could with Paul too which we might do I guess).

[matt131]

man everybody got 'sources' this time of year

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[BobbieL]

My point is that although the beginning and end may be the same you are losing all of key important contextual stuff in the middle that matters. We are a team desperate to turn a corner RIGHT NOW. You're talking about our assets like Ryan McD out here.
And even in your example I would do it. I would do it bc we did the same thing with Warren and Rubio and that turned out fine.
Since you want to look at things so mathematically how about this. Are the Suns better with Ricky and Kelly, or CP3 and Gallo? Obviously, it's the latter.

The latter for a year IF they are fortunate enough to stay healthy again, CP3 kind of had an anomaly year after his previous 3 years.

But I do feel it is shortsighted, and in the second year we are probably about the same or we sign someone else with Oubre cap space or trade him for nice piece sooner.

I'm probably higher on Rubio than most though. I think there is a good chance given the games likely played, he has as much impact overall this year. However, Paul might be better in the playoffs if healthy, though Rubio was obviously great in the World Cup when he won MVP.

And I think in 2 years Rubio is likely at least as good or better. And 3 years and beyond we are likely a lot better without the trade.

I am eager for a good year, but not necessarily at the cost of the future when we are building something that looks pretty damn good given our play in the bubble and with the small ball lineup with Oubre at PF.

You're allowed to continue to make moves in future years and the better you get the easier it is to get guys.

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One of the reasons I wanted to be more conservative this offseason was to see if the players continued to get better and next summer - maybe have a chance with max cap space for free agency. SAric on a one year deal, Oubre and any free agent signing.

I just read Bickleys article and too me it he wants it almost to make a splash
I want to make good smart basketball moves that lead to winning

[matt131]

haha sorry i keep posting these things (tell me to stop if annoying), but the hype is real around this and it's just fun to me:

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[Saberestar]

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Who. Is. This. Guy?