2021 Playoff and Offseason Speculation - the playoffs. PLAYOFFS????

[Saberestar]

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[bwgood77]

Looking at the standings - of the 8 teams that made it past the 1st round in the bubble, only 1 is above .500 and they got beaten by 50 recently.

I wonder how handicapped they'll be from not having a typical post-season rest.

I don't think too bad given the 4 months rest prior to the bubble. All in all they got more rest last year. The big part could be the condensed schedule.

I think for some teams, when you have an absolute superstar you are used to playing with, it hurts and can snowball, like the Clips losing by that much without Kawhi. Philly lost a bad one without Embiid, the Nets without KD and Kyrie (they should not sit them at the same time unless they are ok throwing away games..they could still beat most teams with one of them).

But even though the Clips got beat by Dallas that bad, the Lakers killed Dallas and the Clips beat the Lakers. Clips kind of own the Lakers so if the Nuggets hadn't knocked out the Clips last year, the Lakers may not have made the finals.

[bwgood77]

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Should have been the Wonder Twins....."POWERS ACTIVATE!"

[bigfoot]

It is relieving to see positive, hardhat-lunchpail culture back for the Suns. The types of players Jones drafted and acquired through FA/trades have turned it around. I'm so jazzed about this team and their future.

[NTB]

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[Crives]

Looking at the standings - of the 8 teams that made it past the 1st round in the bubble, only 1 is above .500 and they got beaten by 50 recently.

I wonder how handicapped they'll be from not having a typical post-season rest.

I don't think too bad given the 4 months rest prior to the bubble. All in all they got more rest last year. The big part could be the condensed schedule.

I think for some teams, when you have an absolute superstar you are used to playing with, it hurts and can snowball, like the Clips losing by that much without Kawhi. Philly lost a bad one without Embiid, the Nets without KD and Kyrie (they should not sit them at the same time unless they are ok throwing away games..they could still beat most teams with one of them).

But even though the Clips got beat by Dallas that bad, the Lakers killed Dallas and the Clips beat the Lakers. Clips kind of own the Lakers so if the Nuggets hadn't knocked out the Clips last year, the Lakers may not have made the finals.

I have a feeling it is a combination of two things.

1. there are many players that did not expect the season to start so soon and were not ready for a Dec start... especially with COVID limiting offseason pickup games.

2. Shortened camps/preseason makes #1 worse, plus players are still acclimating to new teammates and systems.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Looking at the standings - of the 8 teams that made it past the 1st round in the bubble, only 1 is above .500 and they got beaten by 50 recently.

I wonder how handicapped they'll be from not having a typical post-season rest.

I don't think too bad given the 4 months rest prior to the bubble. All in all they got more rest last year. The big part could be the condensed schedule.

I think for some teams, when you have an absolute superstar you are used to playing with, it hurts and can snowball, like the Clips losing by that much without Kawhi. Philly lost a bad one without Embiid, the Nets without KD and Kyrie (they should not sit them at the same time unless they are ok throwing away games..they could still beat most teams with one of them).

But even though the Clips got beat by Dallas that bad, the Lakers killed Dallas and the Clips beat the Lakers. Clips kind of own the Lakers so if the Nuggets hadn't knocked out the Clips last year, the Lakers may not have made the finals.

I have a feeling it is a combination of two things.

1. there are many players that did not expect the season to start so soon and were not ready for a Dec start... especially with COVID limiting offseason pickup games.

2. Shortened camps/preseason makes #1 worse, plus players are still acclimating to new teammates and systems.

Some of the blowouts are also a result of the number of 3s shot. It's a higher variance shot and if one team is hitting and the other missing then scores get lopsided quickly.

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[bwgood77]

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I hope he drops that goofy personality. I know some fans like that kind of thing, but I think he's beginning to understand the "corporate" side of public relations. HIs conditioning looks much better, I expect continued improvement from DA.

I don't like it either, but it is who he is. I don't expect it to change, but I think people let it flow into their evaluation of him not taking things seriously when the coaches say he works hard and the players say he's a sponge for information.

I mean, his defense has vastly improved every year. HIs drtg is extremely improved this year..he is the anchor and is dropping into the paint and moving in front of everyone who gets there, even when the ball moves. I think teams are surprised moving it from the guy he is guarding in the paint to another guy in the paint is not working, as he moves in front of them and then alters/deflects shots.

Also his rebounding is way up, by over 20%...he was a little over 12 reb per 36 last year and is 15.4 reb per 36 this year.

His scoring is down, but his trips to the line are up over 55% and his assists are up.

People still find things to complain about..whatever they can, but he's vastly improved in the little things, and things that don't show up in the box score like off ball and help defense...then also the reb, ast and trips to the line are all big positives.

I think as he learns how to play with Paul he will improve in his scoring as well.

But so many care only about PPG and iso scoring so you see a lot of complaints.

His net rtg or impact per floor per 100 possessions has gone from year to year to +4,+3.+18. Drtg improved by 10 after improving by 5 the year before.

Booker has been the far bigger disappointment, but you don't hear a peep about him relative to Ayton unless people don't fear negatively critiquing Book when he deserves it, when Ayton is improving almost everywhere while Booker's efficiency has gone from a near 62% TS% to a 54.5% TS%...his 3 has dropped from 35.7% to 30.8%, his turnovers per 36 have gone from 3.8 to 5.7 and his assists from 6.5 to 3.8 per 36.

[Saberestar]

Bridges is playing like a guy that wants to get paid. He will get a bigger contract than Ayton if his current play is what you’ll see going forward.

I think that’s a given at this point.

Ayton probably gets a Saric type contract at best. Maybe a lil more at $10M-$11M/yr at the most. I don’t think he will have that big a market either, most teams with cap space when he hits free agency already have Cs that are better.

After the Andrew Wiggins debacle, I think most teams are done paying max deals to top overall draft picks for their “potential” and not their actual performance.

I think that he will get and deserves a bigger contract than Saric.

Personally I think that $72M/4 years would be a fair contract for both sides and I would extend his contract this summer at that price. $18M per year is what Myles Turner is getting, and I think he is as good as Turner.

Turner is a better shot blocker and 3p shooter, but Ayton is a better rebounder and better scorer in the paint...so all in all for now I think they have about the same value in the league.

I would give him more money per year IF he makes a leap in some area before the end of this season, and that is a real possibility, but I need to see it. In that case $90M/4 years would makes sense and we would avoid to go to RFA.

Obviously I would not give Ayton the max or anything close to the max, that is not even a serious option at this point.

[Revived]

Bridges is playing like a guy that wants to get paid. He will get a bigger contract than Ayton if his current play is what you’ll see going forward.

I think that’s a given at this point.

Ayton probably gets a Saric type contract at best. Maybe a lil more at $10M-$11M/yr at the most. I don’t think he will have that big a market either, most teams with cap space when he hits free agency already have Cs that are better.

After the Andrew Wiggins debacle, I think most teams are done paying max deals to top overall draft picks for their “potential” and not their actual performance.

I think that he will get and deserves a bigger contract than Saric.

Personally I think that $72M/4 years would be a fair contract for both sides and I would extend his contract this summer at that price. $18M per year is what Myles Turner is getting, and I think he is as good as Turner.

Turner is a better shot blocker and 3p shooter, but Ayton is a better rebounder and better scorer in the paint...so all in all for now I think they have about the same value in the league.

I would give him more money per year IF he makes a leap in some area before the end of this season, and that is a real possibility, but I need to see it. In that case $90M/4 years would makes sense and we would avoid to go to RFA.

Obviously I would not give Ayton the max or anything close to the max, that is not even a serious option at this point.

I think giving him $72M/4 years would immediately make that an untradeable contract and one of the worst in the league unless he takes major strides in his game. It’s been a while since we’ve had a bad contract on the team (Ryan Anderson or Tyler Johnson would be the last ones iirc).

From his play, interviews, and personality thus far, do you think Ayton is the type of player to be more motivated after securing a big extension or the type to be complacent and lazy after getting his 2nd contract?

I think the Suns have to take a stab at answering that question before giving him that type of money.

[Bogyo]

Bridges is playing like a guy that wants to get paid. He will get a bigger contract than Ayton if his current play is what you’ll see going forward.

I think that’s a given at this point.

Ayton probably gets a Saric type contract at best. Maybe a lil more at $10M-$11M/yr at the most. I don’t think he will have that big a market either, most teams with cap space when he hits free agency already have Cs that are better.

After the Andrew Wiggins debacle, I think most teams are done paying max deals to top overall draft picks for their “potential” and not their actual performance.

I think that he will get and deserves a bigger contract than Saric.

Personally I think that $72M/4 years would be a fair contract for both sides and I would extend his contract this summer at that price. $18M per year is what Myles Turner is getting, and I think he is as good as Turner.

Turner is a better shot blocker and 3p shooter, but Ayton is a better rebounder and better scorer in the paint...so all in all for now I think they have about the same value in the league.

I would give him more money per year IF he makes a leap in some area before the end of this season, and that is a real possibility, but I need to see it. In that case $90M/4 years would makes sense and we would avoid to go to RFA.

Obviously I would not give Ayton the max or anything close to the max, that is not even a serious option at this point.

I was just wondering about this. And figured that if he gets the contract of Turner, he will be as untradeable as Turner. Plus I get the vibes off him that he will get lazy after securing the bag. That is a disaster waiting to happen with his goofiness. I'm not sure I'd go above 60mill/4years. Let's see what other teams are offering him, maybe match, maybe do a sign and trade if that makes sense for us. We'll need a retool in 1-2 years anyways most likely - when CP3s contract is off/expiring, and Crowder and Saric are becoming expiring.

[Saberestar]

I think that’s a given at this point.

Ayton probably gets a Saric type contract at best. Maybe a lil more at $10M-$11M/yr at the most. I don’t think he will have that big a market either, most teams with cap space when he hits free agency already have Cs that are better.

After the Andrew Wiggins debacle, I think most teams are done paying max deals to top overall draft picks for their “potential” and not their actual performance.

I think that he will get and deserves a bigger contract than Saric.

Personally I think that $72M/4 years would be a fair contract for both sides and I would extend his contract this summer at that price. $18M per year is what Myles Turner is getting, and I think he is as good as Turner.

Turner is a better shot blocker and 3p shooter, but Ayton is a better rebounder and better scorer in the paint...so all in all for now I think they have about the same value in the league.

I would give him more money per year IF he makes a leap in some area before the end of this season, and that is a real possibility, but I need to see it. In that case $90M/4 years would makes sense and we would avoid to go to RFA.

Obviously I would not give Ayton the max or anything close to the max, that is not even a serious option at this point.

I think giving him $72M/4 years would immediately make that an untradeable contract and one of the worst in the league unless he takes major strides in his game. It’s been a while since we’ve had a bad contract on the team (Ryan Anderson or Tyler Johnson would be the last ones iirc).

From his play, interviews, and personality thus far, do you think Ayton is the type of player to be more motivated after securing a big extension or the type to be complacent and lazy after getting his 2nd contract?

I think the Suns have to take a stab at answering that question before giving him that type of money.

There is a middle ground from David Robinson/Olajuwon to current Derrick Favors/Miles Plumlee.

He is not looking a future HOF for now but he is better than current Favors who is getting $30M/3 years as a first backup from the bench.

Steven Adams and Myles Turner are getting around $18M per year the next couple of years and I think that would be good money for Ayton and the Suns IF he does not improve his game a lot.

Just imagine that he ends this season averaging around 13 points, 11 rebounds and 1.5 blocks per game on a low usage with good defense and we go to the playoffs for the first time in a decade. You would not agree to that deal avoiding RFA in a year?

[Revived]

I think that he will get and deserves a bigger contract than Saric.

Personally I think that $72M/4 years would be a fair contract for both sides and I would extend his contract this summer at that price. $18M per year is what Myles Turner is getting, and I think he is as good as Turner.

Turner is a better shot blocker and 3p shooter, but Ayton is a better rebounder and better scorer in the paint...so all in all for now I think they have about the same value in the league.

I would give him more money per year IF he makes a leap in some area before the end of this season, and that is a real possibility, but I need to see it. In that case $90M/4 years would makes sense and we would avoid to go to RFA.

Obviously I would not give Ayton the max or anything close to the max, that is not even a serious option at this point.

I think giving him $72M/4 years would immediately make that an untradeable contract and one of the worst in the league unless he takes major strides in his game. It’s been a while since we’ve had a bad contract on the team (Ryan Anderson or Tyler Johnson would be the last ones iirc).

From his play, interviews, and personality thus far, do you think Ayton is the type of player to be more motivated after securing a big extension or the type to be complacent and lazy after getting his 2nd contract?

I think the Suns have to take a stab at answering that question before giving him that type of money.

There is a middle ground from David Robinson/Olajuwon to current Derrick Favors/Miles Plumlee.

He is not looking a future HOF for now but he is better than current Favors who is getting $30M/3 years as a first backup from the bench.

Steven Adams and Myles Turner are getting around $18M per year the next couple of years and I think that would be good money for Ayton and the Suns IF he does not improve his game a lot.

Just imagine that he ends this season averaging around 13 points, 11 rebounds and 1.5 blocks per game on a low usage with good defense and we go to the playoffs for the first time in a decade. You would not agree to that deal avoiding RFA in a year?

If he’s only gonna average 13 pts then he’s gotta average 2+ blocks to go with it. His defense would need to be near elite status.

Turner and Adams are two of the worst contracts in the league. Especially Adams. We shouldn’t look around the league and see the worst deals and imagine that to be the market value imo.

Let the market set the rate for Ayton. How many teams or fan bases would be excited about the prospect of adding Ayton to the team? How many of those teams have cap space in ‘22? I think the best case is to let him hit free agency and then if the offer he gets is something cheap then match it otherwise make him our own offer that’s team friendly.

The chance that another team would sign Ayton to an offer sheet for the max or anywhere close to it is slim to none imo (barring an unforeseen career development) so its a low risk/high reward move for the Suns to sign him to something cheap or let the market set his price.

[bwgood77]

Bridges is playing like a guy that wants to get paid. He will get a bigger contract than Ayton if his current play is what you’ll see going forward.

I think that’s a given at this point.

Ayton probably gets a Saric type contract at best. Maybe a lil more at $10M-$11M/yr at the most. I don’t think he will have that big a market either, most teams with cap space when he hits free agency already have Cs that are better.

After the Andrew Wiggins debacle, I think most teams are done paying max deals to top overall draft picks for their “potential” and not their actual performance.

I think that he will get and deserves a bigger contract than Saric.

Personally I think that $72M/4 years would be a fair contract for both sides and I would extend his contract this summer at that price. $18M per year is what Myles Turner is getting, and I think he is as good as Turner.

Turner is a better shot blocker and 3p shooter, but Ayton is a better rebounder and better scorer in the paint...so all in all for now I think they have about the same value in the league.

I would give him more money per year IF he makes a leap in some area before the end of this season, and that is a real possibility, but I need to see it. In that case $90M/4 years would makes sense and we would avoid to go to RFA.

Obviously I would not give Ayton the max or anything close to the max, that is not even a serious option at this point.

Who knows how much these guys will make halfway through their rookie contracts? Ayton is probably near top 5 in the rookie class right now. After last year RAPTOR projected his 5 year value to be $135, or about $27 million a year.

I have no idea what he will make. I wouldn't guess right now either because I have no idea what he will look like after another 140-145 games. He's only played in about 110 so far...and will probably make more improvements in his next 145 than he has in his first 110, and he's made vast improvements already.

$27 million seems kind of like a lot, but it probably won't be that much in 2 years...it's also what Steven Adams makes this year. The guys who make more than that are Embiid, Jokic, Towns, Drummond and Gobert. Vucevic is at $26. So right now his value should probably be less than that. There are not really any other bigger name Cs out there though...a guy like Myles Turner, who isn't nearly as good, who averaged 13 and 7 in his 4th year, makes $18 million a year.

[Adrao]

Let's compare Ayton and Crowder, who deserves more money?
I wouldn't pay more money to Ayton than Jae.

[bwgood77]

Let's compare Ayton and Crowder, who deserves more money?
I wouldn't pay more money to Ayton than Jae.

Right now we should pay Ayton about 2/23, and we are for these next two years. Doesn't make sense to assess what guys on rookie contracts will make halfway through them. Way too much undetermined. I doubt I would pay Crowder more.

Ayton is now the anchor of our D and the best C we've had in over 30 years (not counting Amare as C), and he's only in his 3rd year (but more like his second because last year was about a half year)...so not sure I want to go back to looking for another one. Our D has finally gotten upper tier and he has the best Drtg of anyone on our team.

[MrMiyagi]

Let's compare Ayton and Crowder, who deserves more money?
I wouldn't pay more money to Ayton than Jae.

Right now we should pay Ayton about 2/23, and we are for these next two years. Doesn't make sense to assess what guys on rookie contracts will make halfway through them. Way too much undetermined. I doubt I would pay Crowder more.

Ayton is now the anchor of our D and the best C we've had in over 30 years (not counting Amare as C), and he's only in his 3rd year (but more like his second because last year was about a half year)...so not sure I want to go back to looking for another one. Our D has finally gotten upper tier and he has the best Drtg of anyone on our team.

Yeah, but he doesn't dunk. Straight trash, bro.

[Mr Puddles]

I'd just like to point out that we signed Crowder for basically the same amount of money per year as Memphis and Portland are paying former Suns players Melton and Derrick Jones Jr.

James Jones' offseason just keeps on looking better and better.