Welcome Ryan Dunn

[mkot]

Aaron Gordon shot like 42 percent from the free throw line, and became respectable enough over time.

Chris webber shot 50% from free throws in two years in collegue and became a good mid range shooter, Blake griffin shot in the high 50%'s and became a respectable three point shooter.

I'm sure if I really searched for it, better examples could be found, but if Dunn can shoot the three ball like Gordon or Blake that's good enough to keep the defense honest.

Aaron Gordon, Blake Griffin and Webber are not perimeter wings and they are not 0 on offense, c'mon

And Aaron Gordon is not a respectable shooter, teams play off him to double team Jokić

[lilfishi22]

Lol.

Jalen Suggs made 2nd team all defense and is not by any stretch of the imagination a good shooter.

Done. Very difficult Next question?

Suggs shot 40% from 3 on 7 attempts per36. He's absolutely a good shooter. You don't have to stretch your imagination, you just have to look at the stats

Suggs shot horribly in his rookie season though. 36% fg 21% 3pfg and played 27 minutes a game. He's actually a good example that some guys get drafted for their defense, and manage to improve their offense enough to become impactful players on both ends.

For the record, I don't think Dunn will be a heavy rotation player in his first year. If he can average 10-15 minutes off the bench by the season's end, I'd be very happy.

He was also a net negative player until he figured out his offense. Which is what I'm saying, some players figure it out but most don't and not least those who come into the league shooting 20% from 3 and sub 55% from the FT line.

If you search for dudes who figured it out, of course you'll find them because they stay in the league. The orders of magnitude more who don't, you won't find much about them because they flamed out faster than they could get onto anyone's consciousness. It's survivorship bias

[Mr Puddles]

Suggs shot 40% from 3 on 7 attempts per36. He's absolutely a good shooter. You don't have to stretch your imagination, you just have to look at the stats

Suggs shot horribly in his rookie season though. 36% fg 21% 3pfg and played 27 minutes a game. He's actually a good example that some guys get drafted for their defense, and manage to improve their offense enough to become impactful players on both ends.

For the record, I don't think Dunn will be a heavy rotation player in his first year. If he can average 10-15 minutes off the bench by the season's end, I'd be very happy.

He was also a net negative player until he figured out his offense. Which is what I'm saying, some players figure it out but most don't and not least those who come into the league shooting 20% from 3 and sub 55% from the FT line.

If you search for dudes who figured it out, of course you'll find them because they stay in the league. The orders of magnitude more who don't, you won't find much about them because they flamed out faster than they could get onto anyone's consciousness. It's survivorship bias

It's not survivorship bias. People realize that Dunn may never develop a shot, our HOPE is that he will be good enough defensively, on cuts, and in transition to justify a rotation spot in his rookie season, and that a few seasons down the road his shot may become respectable enough where he won't be a liability in set pieces.

If Dunn were projected to be a good shooter, he would have been a lottery pick, we got him with pick 28. We drafted a guy who should be a difference-maker on defence and has the upside to become a good NBA starter if he develops other areas of his game.

After being asked for examples of guys who entered the league as bad shooters and developed over time, we provided some examples. Nobody is claiming that it's an easy fix or that there haven't been plenty of players who entered the league and never developed a shot.

[Crives]

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[Slim Charless]

Aaron Gordon shot like 42 percent from the free throw line, and became respectable enough over time.

Chris webber shot 50% from free throws in two years in collegue and became a good mid range shooter, Blake griffin shot in the high 50%'s and became a respectable three point shooter.

I'm sure if I really searched for it, better examples could be found, but if Dunn can shoot the three ball like Gordon or Blake that's good enough to keep the defense honest.

Aaron Gordon, Blake Griffin and Webber are not perimeter wings and they are not 0 on offense, c'mon

And Aaron Gordon is not a respectable shooter, teams play off him to double team Jokić

....and none of them have the defensive potential of Dunn. Yes, i include Gordon in there as he will never win DPOTY, while Dunn might one day.

[Slim Charless]

Giannis and Jokic were Euro players who weren't scouted as much as collegiate players. Jokic in particular was a surprise to all because no one could predict that a fat and slow center could dominate the league as well as he has.

Kawhi was picked 15th one spot ahead of us, wasn't it Sarver or someone who said that they didn't get a good impression of Kawhi because he was so awkward during interviews and was sweating profusely?

Draymond. Gilbert Arenas(former scoring champ). Ben Wallace. Manu Ginóbili.

We can keep doing this if you want. Your choice. I have more names.

Point is, great players drop all the time into the 20s and lower. Teams let HOFs go by .

Keep going

I'll give you 10 more that didn't do a thing in the NBA for every one awesome player taken out of lottery.

Well yeah. This is the NBA, of course there's gonna be more guys to not make it then make it. NBA is really hard to excel in lmao. I can name a bunch that didn't make it too so I'm not sure your point.....? Dunn, unlike alot of these guys has an elite ability that can translate right now. Your guy Thabeet had no such ability. Hence why he failed.

[Mr Puddles]

Aaron Gordon shot like 42 percent from the free throw line, and became respectable enough over time.

Chris webber shot 50% from free throws in two years in collegue and became a good mid range shooter, Blake griffin shot in the high 50%'s and became a respectable three point shooter.

I'm sure if I really searched for it, better examples could be found, but if Dunn can shoot the three ball like Gordon or Blake that's good enough to keep the defense honest.

Aaron Gordon, Blake Griffin and Webber are not perimeter wings and they are not 0 on offense, c'mon

And Aaron Gordon is not a respectable shooter, teams play off him to double team Jokić

The question was about bad free throw shooters who became respectable over time. I included Gordon because he shot 42% in college. The goal post is being continously moved with this question here.

But to humor you, in their first two seasons in college (the fairest comparison considering Dunn only played two seasons) Herb Jones shot 50% from the free throw line, OG 52%, and Michael Redd 60% and there's guys like Dante Exum, DJJ who didn't go to college but shot horribly coming into the league and improved over time.

As for teams double teaming of off Gordon to cover Jokic - yeah that's what teams will do when you have the best offensive player in the league. We don't need Dunn to take step back contested three pointers either, just hit the shots he'll get when KD/Book are being double teamed. Gordon has shot 40% from three in two consecutive playoffs on 2.5 attempts per game. If we only get 33% from three point land from Dunn on the same volume, with his defense, slashing ability, length and athleticism, he's going to be a starter in the league for a long time.

[Mr Puddles]

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Off-Season hasn't officially started until the shooting videos come in. I wouldn't put to much stock into this, I remember plenty of footage of Ben Simmons and Mudiay lighting up empty gyms

[babyjax13]

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That looks way better already.

[lilfishi22]

Draymond. Gilbert Arenas(former scoring champ). Ben Wallace. Manu Ginóbili.

We can keep doing this if you want. Your choice. I have more names.

Point is, great players drop all the time into the 20s and lower. Teams let HOFs go by .

Keep going

I'll give you 10 more that didn't do a thing in the NBA for every one awesome player taken out of lottery.

Well yeah. This is the NBA, of course there's gonna be more guys to not make it then make it. NBA is really hard to excel in lmao. I can name a bunch that didn't make it too so I'm not sure your point.....? Dunn, unlike alot of these guys has an elite ability that can translate right now. Your guy Thabeet had no such ability. Hence why he failed.

What do you mean "my guy" lol? I just listed a bunch of defensive standouts who didn't have much of an offensive game that flamed out in the NBA because they couldn't stay on the floor. Thabeet was an elite defensive prospect (2× Big East DPOY, 2x NABC DPOY, Consensus second-team All-American)

I was refuting your point that "great players drop all the time into the 20s and lower" while ignoring all the dudes who didn't make it in the NBA outside of the top 20 and lower, and a whole bunch in the top 20 that also didn't make it. We all know there are dudes who have made it in the NBA outside of the lottery and even those who went undrafted. Point being those are exceedingly rare in comparison to the number of players that get drafted every year.

[sunsbg]

The form on his shot doesn't look that bad and he's apparently a hard worker unlike Simmons. I wouldn't bet against him becoming a respectful shooter.

[mkot]

The question was about bad free throw shooters who became respectable over time. I included Gordon because he shot 42% in college. The goal post is being continously moved with this question here.

Well we were talking about why he dropped so low, and you bring big athletic guys who can't shot into the convversation... these are like apples and oranges. Guys like Aaron Gordon for example wouldn't drop despite his FT% is because he is a big with wing skills. Great athlete who can guard 1-5, decent handle to take bigger guy off dribble or post smaller guard in the post. His FT% is somewhat irrelevant because these guys play around the rim

Anyway, my take on Dunn has been clear from the beginning, be realistic, chances are he won't improve, which is fine. I've said at the very beginning in the draft thread, with the offensive firepower we have, he should be a good fit. The rotation and lineup just need to be smart and that's coach's job to utilize players' strength and 'hide' their weakness. To me high motor athlete is more crucial to team success than you can see on paper. I'm excited for the possibility, just being realistic about his ceiling.

[babyjax13]

The form on his shot doesn't look that bad and he's apparently a hard worker unlike Simmons. I wouldn't bet against him becoming a respectful shooter.

Apparently he could shoot in high school but had a crisis of confidence at Virginia. https://www.facebook.com/UVAMensHoops/videos/ryan-dunn-is-a-6-7-190-pound-athletic-shooting-guard-who-shot-44-percent-from-3-/260056625973095/

[Slim Charless]

Keep going

I'll give you 10 more that didn't do a thing in the NBA for every one awesome player taken out of lottery.

Well yeah. This is the NBA, of course there's gonna be more guys to not make it then make it. NBA is really hard to excel in lmao. I can name a bunch that didn't make it too so I'm not sure your point.....? Dunn, unlike alot of these guys has an elite ability that can translate right now. Your guy Thabeet had no such ability. Hence why he failed.

What do you mean "my guy" lol? I just listed a bunch of defensive standouts who didn't have much of an offensive game that flamed out in the NBA because they couldn't stay on the floor. Thabeet was an elite defensive prospect (2× Big East DPOY, 2x NABC DPOY, Consensus second-team All-American)

I was refuting your point that "great players drop all the time into the 20s and lower" while ignoring all the dudes who didn't make it in the NBA outside of the top 20 and lower, and a whole bunch in the top 20 that also didn't make it. We all know there are dudes who have made it in the NBA outside of the lottery and even those who went undrafted. Point being those are exceedingly rare in comparison to the number of players that get drafted every year.

I'm just saying I haven't even seen the word "Thabeet" til you brought him up. Hence, your guy lol. I was mostly joking.

To the point, those guys that have made it outside of the draft have an actual skill they excel at (rebounding, shooting, vision).......and defense. Like what Dunn offers. By every metric and by every analyst opinions, he's elite on defense. Absolutely elite. Destructive, even.

Those skills translate and I feel that he'll be able to earn mins and a starting position his rookie year. I maintain that he'll also be all defense NBA before his rookie deal us up as well

[lilfishi22]

Well yeah. This is the NBA, of course there's gonna be more guys to not make it then make it. NBA is really hard to excel in lmao. I can name a bunch that didn't make it too so I'm not sure your point.....? Dunn, unlike alot of these guys has an elite ability that can translate right now. Your guy Thabeet had no such ability. Hence why he failed.

What do you mean "my guy" lol? I just listed a bunch of defensive standouts who didn't have much of an offensive game that flamed out in the NBA because they couldn't stay on the floor. Thabeet was an elite defensive prospect (2× Big East DPOY, 2x NABC DPOY, Consensus second-team All-American)

I was refuting your point that "great players drop all the time into the 20s and lower" while ignoring all the dudes who didn't make it in the NBA outside of the top 20 and lower, and a whole bunch in the top 20 that also didn't make it. We all know there are dudes who have made it in the NBA outside of the lottery and even those who went undrafted. Point being those are exceedingly rare in comparison to the number of players that get drafted every year.

I'm just saying I haven't even seen the word "Thabeet" til you brought him up. Hence, your guy lol. I was mostly joking.

To the point, those guys that have made it outside of the draft have an actual skill they excel at (rebounding, shooting, vision).......and defense. Like what Dunn offers. By every metric and by every analyst opinions, he's elite on defense. Absolutely elite. Destructive, even.

Those skills translate and I feel that he'll be able to earn mins and a starting position his rookie year. I maintain that he'll also be all defense NBA before his rookie deal us up as well

And so was Thabeet

NBA Comparison: Dikembe Mutombo
Strengths: Jim Calhoun called Thabeet “one of the most dominant players in the history of college basketball,” and it’s hard to disagree … Had Thabeet returned for his senior year, he likely would have broken the NCAA career-record for blocked shots (he left UConn 118 behind the all-time leader, Wojciech Mydra of Louisiana-Monroe)… Averaged 4.5 blocks per game as a junior, but altered about eight or nine more … Has impeccable timing and athleticism for someone 7-foot-3 … Is extremely mobile for someone his size. Often beats guards down the court … Jumpshot improved considerably in his three years at UConn. Towards the end of his junior year, Thabeet began to take—and make—12-15 foot jumpshots within the offense … Has a soft touch and a good stroke. With some polishing, there’s reason to believe Thabeet can be a consistent mid-range shooter at the next level … Shot just 63 percent from the free throw line, but shoots it with confidence and an excellent motion for a bigman and should be able to increase that number to the mid-to-high 70s throughout his career … Has a good nose for the ball on the boards … Tremendous lateral quickness for a player his size. Can guard smaller players out to the 3-point line … Is a bit stronger than he appears. Overall, Thabeet has a scary combination of size and athleticism that doesn’t come along often … Upside is tremendous.

Being elite on one side of the court is a great base to have and start off with, no one is doubting Dunn's impact on defense is legit and potentially elite at the NBA level but if you don't have much of anything else and you don't improve on those significant weaknesses, then you'll go the way of the many other one trick ponies that have come and gone over the years whose name you don't even know/remember.

[Saberestar]

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[Slim Charless]

What do you mean "my guy" lol? I just listed a bunch of defensive standouts who didn't have much of an offensive game that flamed out in the NBA because they couldn't stay on the floor. Thabeet was an elite defensive prospect (2× Big East DPOY, 2x NABC DPOY, Consensus second-team All-American)

I was refuting your point that "great players drop all the time into the 20s and lower" while ignoring all the dudes who didn't make it in the NBA outside of the top 20 and lower, and a whole bunch in the top 20 that also didn't make it. We all know there are dudes who have made it in the NBA outside of the lottery and even those who went undrafted. Point being those are exceedingly rare in comparison to the number of players that get drafted every year.

I'm just saying I haven't even seen the word "Thabeet" til you brought him up. Hence, your guy lol. I was mostly joking.

To the point, those guys that have made it outside of the draft have an actual skill they excel at (rebounding, shooting, vision).......and defense. Like what Dunn offers. By every metric and by every analyst opinions, he's elite on defense. Absolutely elite. Destructive, even.

Those skills translate and I feel that he'll be able to earn mins and a starting position his rookie year. I maintain that he'll also be all defense NBA before his rookie deal us up as well

And so was Thabeet

NBA Comparison: Dikembe Mutombo
Strengths: Jim Calhoun called Thabeet “one of the most dominant players in the history of college basketball,” and it’s hard to disagree … Had Thabeet returned for his senior year, he likely would have broken the NCAA career-record for blocked shots (he left UConn 118 behind the all-time leader, Wojciech Mydra of Louisiana-Monroe)… Averaged 4.5 blocks per game as a junior, but altered about eight or nine more … Has impeccable timing and athleticism for someone 7-foot-3 … Is extremely mobile for someone his size. Often beats guards down the court … Jumpshot improved considerably in his three years at UConn. Towards the end of his junior year, Thabeet began to take—and make—12-15 foot jumpshots within the offense … Has a soft touch and a good stroke. With some polishing, there’s reason to believe Thabeet can be a consistent mid-range shooter at the next level … Shot just 63 percent from the free throw line, but shoots it with confidence and an excellent motion for a bigman and should be able to increase that number to the mid-to-high 70s throughout his career … Has a good nose for the ball on the boards … Tremendous lateral quickness for a player his size. Can guard smaller players out to the 3-point line … Is a bit stronger than he appears. Overall, Thabeet has a scary combination of size and athleticism that doesn’t come along often … Upside is tremendous.

Being elite on one side of the court is a great base to have and start off with, no one is doubting Dunn's impact on defense is legit and potentially elite at the NBA level but if you don't have much of anything else and you don't improve on those significant weaknesses, then you'll go the way of the many other one trick ponies that have come and gone over the years whose name you don't even know/remember.

Jim Calhoun was his coach.....he's got a reason to boost Thabeet's stock. He was nowhere near as universally praised as Dunn is and was. He's also a great cutter and dunker, which are things that will be useful paired with 3 perimeter shooters that we employ. He'll be able to get space needed and will be found when he gets to the hoop.

[lilfishi22]

I'm just saying I haven't even seen the word "Thabeet" til you brought him up. Hence, your guy lol. I was mostly joking.

To the point, those guys that have made it outside of the draft have an actual skill they excel at (rebounding, shooting, vision).......and defense. Like what Dunn offers. By every metric and by every analyst opinions, he's elite on defense. Absolutely elite. Destructive, even.

Those skills translate and I feel that he'll be able to earn mins and a starting position his rookie year. I maintain that he'll also be all defense NBA before his rookie deal us up as well

And so was Thabeet

NBA Comparison: Dikembe Mutombo
Strengths: Jim Calhoun called Thabeet “one of the most dominant players in the history of college basketball,” and it’s hard to disagree … Had Thabeet returned for his senior year, he likely would have broken the NCAA career-record for blocked shots (he left UConn 118 behind the all-time leader, Wojciech Mydra of Louisiana-Monroe)… Averaged 4.5 blocks per game as a junior, but altered about eight or nine more … Has impeccable timing and athleticism for someone 7-foot-3 … Is extremely mobile for someone his size. Often beats guards down the court … Jumpshot improved considerably in his three years at UConn. Towards the end of his junior year, Thabeet began to take—and make—12-15 foot jumpshots within the offense … Has a soft touch and a good stroke. With some polishing, there’s reason to believe Thabeet can be a consistent mid-range shooter at the next level … Shot just 63 percent from the free throw line, but shoots it with confidence and an excellent motion for a bigman and should be able to increase that number to the mid-to-high 70s throughout his career … Has a good nose for the ball on the boards … Tremendous lateral quickness for a player his size. Can guard smaller players out to the 3-point line … Is a bit stronger than he appears. Overall, Thabeet has a scary combination of size and athleticism that doesn’t come along often … Upside is tremendous.

Being elite on one side of the court is a great base to have and start off with, no one is doubting Dunn's impact on defense is legit and potentially elite at the NBA level but if you don't have much of anything else and you don't improve on those significant weaknesses, then you'll go the way of the many other one trick ponies that have come and gone over the years whose name you don't even know/remember.

Jim Calhoun was his coach.....he's got a reason to boost Thabeet's stock. He was nowhere near as universally praised as Dunn is and was. He's also a great cutter and dunker, which are things that will be useful paired with 3 perimeter shooters that we employ. He'll be able to get space needed and will be found when he gets to the hoop.

One guy went #2, the other went #28. There's no way this is close to being right

[Slim Charless]

And so was Thabeet



Being elite on one side of the court is a great base to have and start off with, no one is doubting Dunn's impact on defense is legit and potentially elite at the NBA level but if you don't have much of anything else and you don't improve on those significant weaknesses, then you'll go the way of the many other one trick ponies that have come and gone over the years whose name you don't even know/remember.

Jim Calhoun was his coach.....he's got a reason to boost Thabeet's stock. He was nowhere near as universally praised as Dunn is and was. He's also a great cutter and dunker, which are things that will be useful paired with 3 perimeter shooters that we employ. He'll be able to get space needed and will be found when he gets to the hoop.

One guy went #2, the other went #28. There's no way this is close to being right

Because he's 7'3..... you can't teach height. You know wise went high? Ayton. Over Luka. Anthony Bennett went #1. Sam Bowie over Jordan. Michael olawakandi went #1. Didn't make them the right choice.

NBA values height. Always has.

[lilfishi22]

Jim Calhoun was his coach.....he's got a reason to boost Thabeet's stock. He was nowhere near as universally praised as Dunn is and was. He's also a great cutter and dunker, which are things that will be useful paired with 3 perimeter shooters that we employ. He'll be able to get space needed and will be found when he gets to the hoop.

One guy went #2, the other went #28. There's no way this is close to being right

Because he's 7'3..... you can't teach height. You know wise went high? Ayton. Over Luka. Anthony Bennett went #1. Sam Bowie over Jordan. Michael olawakandi went #1. Didn't make them the right choice.

NBA values height. Always has.

And bigs have always had an outsized impact on defense. It's why DPOY has historically been big men