2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued

[Frank Lee]

So much effort here to acquire rejects from other teams. Being bad is one thing, but devising strategy to remain that way is why we are in this position. We haven’t made a significant upgrade to this roster in 5+yrs. When was the last FA or trade that actually had immediate impact? Chandler??? Oh that’s right. The grand plan has been to draft our way out of this. Silly me.

‘But if the Thunder wanted to keep Dudley- it would cost them $40m’ boy that’s a Coin flipper eh Bob?

[BobbieL]

So much effort here to acquire rejects from other teams. Being bad is one thing, but devising strategy to remain that way is why we are in this position. We haven’t made a significant upgrade to this roster in 5+yrs. When was the last FA or trade that actually had immediate impact? Chandler??? Oh that’s right. The grand plan has been to draft our way out of this. Silly me.

‘But if the Thunder wanted to keep Dudley- it would cost them $40m’ boy that’s a Coin flipper eh Bob?

Frank -- I said it was a long shot. It did save the Thunder a bit of cash . Personally, the rumors I read last week with OKC trading Melo never made any sense -- as it was always cheaper to stretch and waive. And one last point, in what universe was I keeping Carmelo. I was trading three players on expirings for Melo to save OKC money (small though it may be if they were going to stretch him anyway) and immediately waive or buyout Anthony, clearing THREE roster spots to sign better players .

Personally, I would just waive all three guys, see if they take buyouts and move on. Those three guys are not worth the cost if you ask me. The veteran leadership narrative is nonsense. Get players that can play better basketball. Montrez Harrell I would take over Dudley or Chandler. Alan Williams would take over Chandler.

Surprised Teodosic was kept actually. Maybe a trade chip.

[Suns_RoadRunner]

It’s disappointing to hear that Teodosic was retained. My bet is McD had been waiting patiently all this time for him to fall in our laps.

It’s a damn shame we didn’t grab Napier. He was fantastic in a reserve role for Portland last year. Good shooter, decent defender and a winner. Barring a trade, buckle up for another fun season of Knight

[shrink]

Hey guys. I come in peace, as a fan of all teams doing better, especially teams that have struggled lately.

I am happy to see so many PHX fans are not comfortable with the thought of Brandon Knight coming back from injury as your starting PG. I feel like the Suns have been hurting themselves recently by not having a legitimate, veteran, #1 starting point guard on the roster, who can run an offense. I don’t really care if he adds wins or not, but the key is that he’s a vet who can provide a legitimate framework for an offense, so you can evaluate which of your lottery youth you want to proceed with. Every year that is wasted without finding out what a kid will look like when your team gets it’s ultimate answer at point guard, uses up another year of rookie scale, and brings them all another year closer to having to make a long term decision in restricted free agency. Wasting starting minutes on back up point guards hurts everyone.

Adding a vet starting point guard isn’t sexy, but it’s an investment in the lottery youth you’ve accumulated the last few years. I would look for these attributes:

1. Must be able to run an offense
2. Must be able to create for his teammates, either by passing or penetration
3. Must be at least 26 and have started 300 games, to demonstrate coaches are okay with his abilities.
4. While the size of the contract matters, more important would be a deal no longer than two years.
5. No character problems in the locker room. He needs to lead, and be a good example.

My short list would be Rubio (Mitchell and Exum might make him tradable), and Jeff Teague (Tyus Jones played well, and they signed Derrick Rose),

I’d be looking for “reliable” and “starter level,” over “sexy.” The options in free agency are for second string talent, guys with injury histories and/or character issues. I have watched the Suns from over on the Trade Board, and I want to KNOW how good Chriss, Bender, Jackson, and now Ayton are. If it’s frustrating for me, as just a fan of the game, it must be ten times worse for you guys, as fans of the Suns.

Good luck this season!

[TheXgasm]

Hey guys. I come in peace, as a fan of all teams doing better, especially teams that have struggled lately.

I am happy to see so many PHX fans are not comfortable with the thought of Brandon Knight coming back from injury as your starting PG. I feel like the Suns have been hurting themselves recently by not having a legitimate, veteran, #1 starting point guard on the roster, who can run an offense. I don’t really care if he adds wins or not, but the key is that he’s a vet who can provide a legitimate framework for an offense, so you can evaluate which of your lottery youth you want to proceed with. Every year that is wasted without finding out what a kid will look like when your team gets it’s ultimate answer at point guard, uses up another year of rookie scale, and brings them all another year closer to having to make a long term decision in restricted free agency. Wasting starting minutes on back up point guards hurts everyone.

Adding a vet starting point guard isn’t sexy, but it’s an investment in the lottery youth you’ve accumulated the last few years. I would look for these attributes:

1. Must be able to run an offense
2. Must be able to create for his teammates, either by passing or penetration
3. Must be at least 26 and have started 300 games, to demonstrate coaches are okay with his abilities.
4. While the size of the contract matters, more important would be a deal no longer than two years.
5. No character problems in the locker room. He needs to lead, and be a good example.

My short list would be Rubio (Mitchell and Exum might make him tradable), and Jeff Teague (Tyus Jones played well, and they signed Derrick Rose),

I’d be looking for “reliable” and “starter level,” over “sexy.” The options in free agency are for second string talent, guys with injury histories and/or character issues. I have watched the Suns from over on the Trade Board, and I want to KNOW how good Chriss, Bender, Jackson, and now Ayton are. If it’s frustrating for me, as just a fan of the game, it must be ten times worse for you guys, as fans of the Suns.

Good luck this season!

Rubio is actually my "semi-cheap" dream PG for this team. A distributor who pushes an offense forward and isn't selfish or a locker room problem.

[King4Day]

I'd still like Beverly but if we nabbed him, what happens with Knight, Okobo, and Harrison?
Knight is going to get a chance and if he doesn't work out, we still have one more year with him left.
Harrison performed well enough to be retained but we aren't keeping him as a 4th guard.

Perhaps Okobo stays in the D-league for a while?

[JMac1]

I think Knight is gong to pleasantly surprise you guys, especially when people here act as if he has no ability versus he has just been playing bad basketball. Knight can be a better than average PG if he wants to be. It isn’t like he doesn’t have ability. If he buys in, we have no PG issues.

Knight
Booker
Ariza
Ayton

Can be very good. 8th seed good. Ariza is proven. Knight has played All-Star level basketball and Booker is a young star in the making. Ayton just has to be a good Center in his first year to make us competitive for the 8th spot. With Warren JJ and Bridges and a hit and misss Bender and Chriss, we will be better than 35 victories.

I don’t buy into media driven narrative BS. We’ve been tanking for 2 years straight. We aren’t 21 wins bad, lol!

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

I think Knight is gong to pleasantly surprise you guys, especially when people here act as if he has no ability versus he has just been playing bad basketball. Knight can be a better than average PG if he wants to be. It isn’t like he doesn’t have ability. If he buys in, we have no PG issues.

Knight
Booker
Ariza
Ayton

Can be very good. 8th seed good. Ariza is proven. Knight has played All-Star level basketball and Booker is a young star in the making. Ayton just has to be a good Center in his first year to make us competitive for the 8th spot. With Warren JJ and Bridges and a hit and misss Bender and Chriss, we will be better than 35 victories.

I don’t buy into media driven narrative BS. We’ve been tanking for 2 years straight. We aren’t 21 wins bad, lol!

I actually think the biggest change we're likely to see from Brandon will result from using Koko's system. Getting Brandon the ball in different situations, getting him open off the ball and with space to move, not simply putting him in P&R situations play after play, I think could really open up his game.

[JMac1]

I think Knight is gong to pleasantly surprise you guys, especially when people here act as if he has no ability versus he has just been playing bad basketball. Knight can be a better than average PG if he wants to be. It isn’t like he doesn’t have ability. If he buys in, we have no PG issues.

Knight
Booker
Ariza
Ayton

Can be very good. 8th seed good. Ariza is proven. Knight has played All-Star level basketball and Booker is a young star in the making. Ayton just has to be a good Center in his first year to make us competitive for the 8th spot. With Warren JJ and Bridges and a hit and misss Bender and Chriss, we will be better than 35 victories.

I don’t buy into media driven narrative BS. We’ve been tanking for 2 years straight. We aren’t 21 wins bad, lol!

I actually think the biggest change we're likely to see from Brandon will result from using Koko's system. Getting Brandon the ball in different situations, getting him open off the ball and with space to move, not simply putting him in P&R situations play after play, I think could really open up his game.

Yea. I’m scrapping everything we have been for the last 4-5 dysfunctional years. Not having a system or coaching continuity year after year.....you can’t really judge anything thing with the context we were in effectively.

[jcsunsfan]

I think Knight is gong to pleasantly surprise you guys, especially when people here act as if he has no ability versus he has just been playing bad basketball. Knight can be a better than average PG if he wants to be. It isn’t like he doesn’t have ability. If he buys in, we have no PG issues.

Knight
Booker
Ariza
Ayton

Can be very good. 8th seed good. Ariza is proven. Knight has played All-Star level basketball and Booker is a young star in the making. Ayton just has to be a good Center in his first year to make us competitive for the 8th spot. With Warren JJ and Bridges and a hit and misss Bender and Chriss, we will be better than 35 victories.

I don’t buy into media driven narrative BS. We’ve been tanking for 2 years straight. We aren’t 21 wins bad, lol!

I would like to think this about Knight. I hope we stick with Igor for years to come. We cannot get an itchy trigger finger with our coaches anymore. We need a good coach and then continuity. I think Igor will be good. Even if he has some issues thought, we need to stay the course.

Now about Knight. His MO was to play pg with his head down and go 1 on 5. He cannot do that. If he does, he needs to sit immediately. Coaching will help, but only as much as that coach holds Knight accountable for his play. I always thought Knight had the skills, athleticism, and talent to be a great pg. His problem has been between his ears. So, because he is our only option, I have some very thin optimism for him. I admit though, it's more like a faint hope.

[BobbieL]

I think Knight is gong to pleasantly surprise you guys, especially when people here act as if he has no ability versus he has just been playing bad basketball. Knight can be a better than average PG if he wants to be. It isn’t like he doesn’t have ability. If he buys in, we have no PG issues.

Knight
Booker
Ariza
Ayton

Can be very good. 8th seed good. Ariza is proven. Knight has played All-Star level basketball and Booker is a young star in the making. Ayton just has to be a good Center in his first year to make us competitive for the 8th spot. With Warren JJ and Bridges and a hit and misss Bender and Chriss, we will be better than 35 victories.

I don’t buy into media driven narrative BS. We’ve been tanking for 2 years straight. We aren’t 21 wins bad, lol!

I actually think the biggest change we're likely to see from Brandon will result from using Koko's system. Getting Brandon the ball in different situations, getting him open off the ball and with space to move, not simply putting him in P&R situations play after play, I think could really open up his game.

Yea. I’m scrapping everything we have been for the last 4-5 dysfunctional years. Not having a system or coaching continuity year after year.....you can’t really judge anything thing with the context we were in effectively.

I think Triano was a good coach just not having a training camp - was a problem. But Igor was a solid hire. I think having him on board will be very helpful. I still am hoping for PG depth but right now, this roster is 12-15 games better than last year in my opinion. Health willing

[JMac1]

I actually think the biggest change we're likely to see from Brandon will result from using Koko's system. Getting Brandon the ball in different situations, getting him open off the ball and with space to move, not simply putting him in P&R situations play after play, I think could really open up his game.

Yea. I’m scrapping everything we have been for the last 4-5 dysfunctional years. Not having a system or coaching continuity year after year.....you can’t really judge anything thing with the context we were in effectively.

I think Triano was a good coach just not having a training camp - was a problem. But Igor was a solid hire. I think having him on board will be very helpful. I still am hoping for PG depth but right now, this roster is 12-15 games better than last year in my opinion. Health willing

I’m definitely with that. Win growth and player growth. Can JJ and Mikal replace Ariza after he leaves? Is Devin a Super Star? Is Ayton looking like a unstoppable force one on one and protecting the paint? Is Bender or Chriss a future 3D player? Is Knight a capable PG with more talent around him?

[Qwigglez]

I think Knight is gong to pleasantly surprise you guys, especially when people here act as if he has no ability versus he has just been playing bad basketball. Knight can be a better than average PG if he wants to be. It isn’t like he doesn’t have ability. If he buys in, we have no PG issues.

Knight
Booker
Ariza
Ayton

Can be very good. 8th seed good. Ariza is proven. Knight has played All-Star level basketball and Booker is a young star in the making. Ayton just has to be a good Center in his first year to make us competitive for the 8th spot. With Warren JJ and Bridges and a hit and misss Bender and Chriss, we will be better than 35 victories.

I don’t buy into media driven narrative BS. We’ve been tanking for 2 years straight. We aren’t 21 wins bad, lol!

I have been hyping up Knight a little too much lately, but there's a reason for it. Knight's skillset offensively should compliment Booker/Ayton well. IMO, Knight is a very solid catch and shoot three point shooter, the problem is, he likes to dribble a lot first. I'm hoping Koko and the rest of the coaching staff can help correct this issue because this will open up the floor a lot. We don't need a true pass-first PG on this team, since Booker will demand the ball a lot. With the way our roster is currently constructed I feel our most lethal lineup offensively will be Knight/Booker/Ariza/Bender/Ayton. Jackson/Warren don't open the floor up and allow for the most spacing for Ayton. Ariza, off the top of my head without looking at advanced stats is an above average three point shooter from the corner pocket.
I envision we replicate the Warriors motion offense where we are doing a lot of deception and misdirection type plays. Everyone should constantly be moving because that allows the defense to never settle.

Watching Booker highlights, he creates so much offense by himself, if we have a good system, he should be able to shoot closer to 48% from the field.

Watch on YouTube

[Revived]

I think Knight is gong to pleasantly surprise you guys, especially when people here act as if he has no ability versus he has just been playing bad basketball. Knight can be a better than average PG if he wants to be. It isn’t like he doesn’t have ability. If he buys in, we have no PG issues.

Knight
Booker
Ariza
Ayton

Can be very good. 8th seed good. Ariza is proven. Knight has played All-Star level basketball and Booker is a young star in the making. Ayton just has to be a good Center in his first year to make us competitive for the 8th spot. With Warren JJ and Bridges and a hit and misss Bender and Chriss, we will be better than 35 victories.

I don’t buy into media driven narrative BS. We’ve been tanking for 2 years straight. We aren’t 21 wins bad, lol!

I actually think the biggest change we're likely to see from Brandon will result from using Koko's system. Getting Brandon the ball in different situations, getting him open off the ball and with space to move, not simply putting him in P&R situations play after play, I think could really open up his game.

I think Knight’s mentality has changed and is now in a good place. Plus I think he sees on social media how nobody in Phoenix likes him (he’s gone back and forth a few times with fans) and I think all that will lead to him realizing he’s not the star player that he thought he was.

Plus I think and hope he understands now that with the drafting of Okobo, he could lose his role if he doesn’t play within Kokoskov’s system.

[MathiasPW]

We don't need a pass-first PG, but we need a pass-RIGHT PG, and Knight has never been it. He has barely been a pass-at-all-except-when-clock-expires PG. Or more like a turnover-first PG.

I hope the assessment you guys made, although not really based on much, is right. Seems like we will depend on it.

For now, my only comfort is his usage will probably be drastically cut within Koko's ball-sharing system.

[Sreister]

I find it funny how there are stark sides on the Knight debate. One side saying YES, he HAS changed. The other, clearly saying that no one can change and that he's no exception. He's going to come back and be exactly what he was before.

Come on people, we're adults right? I understand we have opinions and that's exactly what this site is for, but no one knows. Seriously. None of you do. There's no way to look into the past to see what his future holds, and no way to look at his work ethic now and say he's a changed man.

So, instead of doing that, how about we find out by fire. We throw him in, and SEE WHAT HE DOES. This season, whereas it IS a turning point for our franchise, isn't about making a run for the championship, so we can fiddle and play with what we have and see if it works. We are obligated to pay the man his money, so there's no sense in not kicking the tires after such a long absence. I'd be more disappointed in our FO if we DIDN'T give him a shot, because that means we make rash decisions based on emotion than taking the logical step in letting him play first, and decide what to do after you have an actual sample size to base your judgement on.

[m1chal]

I find optimistic opinions on Knight unwarranted. I'm all for giving him another try with new coach in a new system but I believe he's going to be remembered as McD's worst acquisition.

[shrink]

So, instead of doing that, how about we find out by fire. We throw him in, and SEE WHAT HE DOES. This season, whereas it IS a turning point for our franchise, isn't about making a run for the championship, so we can fiddle and play with what we have and see if it works. We are obligated to pay the man his money, so there's no sense in not kicking the tires after such a long absence. I'd be more disappointed in our FO if we DIDN'T give him a shot, because that means we make rash decisions based on emotion than taking the logical step in letting him play first, and decide what to do after you have an actual sample size to base your judgement on.

The problem with the uncertainty is that it may cost you development time for the true values on your team - your lottery picks.

I understand keeping the money involved, and using Knight as a potential back up wouldn’t be bad. However, it is far more important to develop your lottery talent, evaluate them, and figure out who you pay for the future. I feel you need to add a vet PG to run the offense.

There is too big of an investment in those players to accept Knight’s uncertainty, and spend time kicking the tires on him.

(go hawks)

[bigfoot]

So, instead of doing that, how about we find out by fire. We throw him in, and SEE WHAT HE DOES. This season, whereas it IS a turning point for our franchise, isn't about making a run for the championship, so we can fiddle and play with what we have and see if it works. We are obligated to pay the man his money, so there's no sense in not kicking the tires after such a long absence. I'd be more disappointed in our FO if we DIDN'T give him a shot, because that means we make rash decisions based on emotion than taking the logical step in letting him play first, and decide what to do after you have an actual sample size to base your judgement on.

The problem with the uncertainty is that it may cost you development time for the true values on your team - your lottery picks.

I understand keeping the money involved, and using Knight as a potential back up wouldn’t be bad. However, it is far more important to develop your lottery talent, evaluate them, and figure out who you pay for the future.

There is too big of an investment in those players to accept Knight’s uncertainty, and spend time kicking the tires on him.

(go hawks)

The flaw with this is the Suns have been developing young players for a few years. The best of them, Booker, wants to win now. The simple measuring stick is that Knight is the best PG we have. Therefore he plays over Okobu our high second round pick. I don't have a problem with Knight and Harrison competing for PG minutes or the right to start. Harrison is certainly a step ahead of Knight on defense but can we afford to have Booker and Ariza as the only three point threats in the starting lineup (Harrison, Warren-or-Jackson, and Ayton).

[shrink]

Rubio is actually my "semi-cheap" dream PG for this team. A distributor who pushes an offense forward and isn't selfish or a locker room problem.

Me too. For the first half of last season, I tried to come up with reasonable ways to get him to the Suns. However, halfway through, he really turned it on for the Jazz, and it would have cost too much to trade for him. Now though, maybe he can be had at a reasonable price again.

I liked Rubio because he checked most of the boxes. He’s a supreme passer, and he makes the game easier for teammates by getting the ball to players in spots where it’s easier for them to succeed. He made Kevin Love an All Star, so he knows how to help big men. He’s pass-first, low-usage, and really wants his teammates to succeed. His defense is excellent as well, and he’s great in the locker room. I think he’d be a great choice.

However, I am a bit concerned by two things - health, and how different he is from other point guards. Whoever you get for a vet PG to run the offense, he probably is not long term, so you may prefer someone who is more standard, so your youth develops personally, and gets used to the play of your next point guard. This is why I started thinking about Teague. He still averages 7 APG, but he’s a penetrator like most PG’s in the league. He’s also healthier than Rubio.

I think either guy would provide vet leadership and create an offense with which you could develop your youth, and neither would cost much in trade assets, since you don’t want to be spending assets on a temporary (1-2 year) solution.