2019 season speculation including trade ideas

[Crives]

Someone needs to keep a stat on the gift rebounds Ayton gets. I think his stats were inflated and don’t really reflect how much of a pansy he is. Aggression is a trait he does not have. Better get off the high post **** experiment and soon. He doesn’t have head for the decisive reaction needed in a strong roller.

I could go on but it isn’t needed. I think He’s 3 yrs out from what we want him and need him to be. By then, book will be tired of his jabbering about what he says he’s going to become.

Our #1 might be the 5th best player in that draft. He’s just not a baller

On point observation for sure. Defensive rebounds in particular are wildly overrated....box out rates, contested rates, deferred rebounds, and rebounds distances do better jobs of painting the complete picture. Rebound distance, for example, is a proxy for perimeter defense and more generally defensive versatility.

Baynes, Holmes, and Kaminsky for example are honorees in the Brook Lopez BoxOut Association.

And to be clear Ayton is clearly the most gifted rebounder of the bunch...by a mile. But in the regular season defensive rebounding is a team sport measured by 5-man effectiveness.

https://stats.nba.com/players/defensive-rebounding/?Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&CF=GP*G*41:MIN*GE*15&sort=DREB_CONTEST_PCT&dir=1&PlayerPosition=C

I wouldn’t give Ayton the benefit of the doubt because of last season... but I can see it make sense to play less physical in preseason to avoid injury... silver lining..there is a benefit to playing less physical... look at Aytons minutes/games played vs Bagley and JJJ.

[MathiasPW]

Our #1 might be the 5th best player in that draft. He’s just not a baller

Which is where a bunch of serious draft nerds ranked him pre-draft.

It's too early to tell, and I sure hope they were wrong, but evidence so far is in their favor.

[GoodBehavior]

Ayton avg 20/10 + this year watch

I agree, 20/10 is probably right, but those numbers won’t have a lot of weight if they are like 9/16 from the field, 2/3 from the line, his offensive aggressiveness not putting/gathering fouls on opponents front line defenders...not creating gravity and headaches for the oppos coaches to really worry about in general. And then there’s the other side of the court still “in development”. Progress for sure year one... long way to go on the D for Deandre.

I feel like this is something a lot of people don't seem to understand. To me, 20/10 is just a milestone. Like Booker averaging 20ppg+ in his 2nd season. That's a really good milestone for a young player, especially one that was taken towards the end of the lottery. That's all well and good but those 22ppg he averaged in his 2nd season was largely done in isolation of real impact because he wasn't efficient, he wasn't (and still isn't) defending well and his passing game was still in its infancy. So Ayton hitting 20/10 is a milestone, for him to have real game changing impact (like Booker's scoring), he'll need to be able to do more than just be efficient around the rim. He needs to be versatile with his scoring abilities while staying efficient, he'll need to be dominant at least in the paint and he'll need to get better defensively overall.

I always go back to the Wiggins example. The guy puts up solid numbers (career 19/4) but he sucks because aside from a handful of games a year when he's actually dominant, he really doesn't impact the game even with his scoring because he's not efficient, he isn't focused defensively and he doesn't stretch the floor. As a #1 pick, that's not exactly good.

So Ayton hitting 20/10 is good. It's a good milestone to hit but if he's only truly dominant with an impressive display of defense, passing and just unstoppable offense a couple of games a month, is just OK 10 games the rest of the month and disappearing once a month; then what is that? That's good? Is that the low bar we're setting for a #1 pick in probably the most loaded draft since 2009 (Curry, Harden, Blake etc) or perhaps 2003 (Lebron, Wade, Melo etc)?

People think I hate Ayton. I don't. He's really talented, he has the physicals and he has a strong skill set. But so did Wiggins, that's the problem. I don't want him to be just good, I want him to be great because that's the expectation that comes from being the #1 pick.

20/10 with good efficiency makes him a lock for the Hall of Fame. That's what LMA is averaging, and there are very few, if not zero, former NBA players who didn't go in the Hall of Fame with those stats. The closest is probably Chris Webber, but his efficiency is just awful. And lots of people, including myself, believe Chris should be in the Hall of Fame.

If DA averages 20/10 and the team isn't competitive, that's really the fault of the organization that they can't build around a Hall of Fame center. His gravity pull is undeniable on rolling towards the basket and drawing double team against small centers. He's also spacing the floor: teams (at least in the preseason) are not giving him a lot of shooting space. You should be able to field a top 10 offense with him as the anchor. You can certainly build your offense around him, which JJ is doing.

There is a guy in Minnesota, a former #1 pick, that averages 20/10 that people think is an empty stat collector, plays virtually no defense, and considered soft as tissue. His name is KAT, not Wiggins. DA is different from both, but if you want to pick from the two, KAT at least makes some sense.

Wiggins is just a bad comparison. You cannot build an offense around a guy that takes pull-up mid ranger jumper that falls in <40% of the time. Wiggins has zero gravity pull.

[GoodBehavior]

Someone needs to keep a stat on the gift rebounds Ayton gets. I think his stats were inflated and don’t really reflect how much of a pansy he is. Aggression is a trait he does not have. Better get off the high post **** experiment and soon. He doesn’t have head for the decisive reaction needed in a strong roller.

I could go on but it isn’t needed. I think He’s 3 yrs out from what we want him and need him to be. By then, book will be tired of his jabbering about what he says he’s going to become.

Our #1 might be the 5th best player in that draft. He’s just not a baller

On point observation for sure. Defensive rebounds in particular are wildly overrated....box out rates, contested rates, deferred rebounds, and rebounds distances do better jobs of painting the complete picture. Rebound distance, for example, is a proxy for perimeter defense and more generally defensive versatility.

Baynes, Holmes, and Kaminsky for example are honorees in the Brook Lopez BoxOut Association.

And to be clear Ayton is clearly the most gifted rebounder of the bunch...by a mile. But in the regular season defensive rebounding is a team sport measured by 5-man effectiveness.

https://stats.nba.com/players/defensive-rebounding/?Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&CF=GP*G*41:MIN*GE*15&sort=DREB_CONTEST_PCT&dir=1&PlayerPosition=C

I wouldn’t give Ayton the benefit of the doubt because of last season... but I can see it make sense to play less physical in preseason to avoid injury... silver lining..there is a benefit to playing less physical... look at Aytons minutes/games played vs Bagley and JJJ.

I think you guys (Frank Lee and Company) are right but for the wrong reason. I agree his rebounding stats last year was overrated. That's because the team, as a whole, didn't have a secondary rebounder, typically the PF, which was anchored by Warren and Oubre, both are too small to play the position. There were games where Book was the second leading rebounder. And as people have highlighted, DA needs to box out better and tend to lose his assignment at times.

The criticism is wrong, however, since you're comparing a rookie against established players. I think we would be hard pressed to name any 20 year rookie, not named Shaq, that was an above average rebounder out of the gate. It just doesnt happen. Monty says he's gotten much stronger and he's working with Baynes. So we'll see

[Crives]

This Buddy Hield drama could really help us on opening night.

[Mystical Apples]

Think the poll here regarding 3P% is mostly right. I’d have Cam Johnson, then Booker who’s 3P has been better than the percentages suggest, and then a group of Kaminsky and possibly Saric depending on Saric’s volume of C&S compared to OS or popping deep. Saric is interesting because he was lights out in PnP last season but career-wise has generally been just OK there.

In terms of expected gravity I’d clearly go Booker #1 in a tier by himself, then Kaminsky followed by a group of Saric, Tyler, and Cam.

Cam is the wildcard, gravity-wise to slide into 3rd, depending on his off-ball movement which is asking a lot of a rookie. He’s for sure the team’s knockdown shooter, though.

I wouldn’t include Baynes here. His % aside, his volume and shot distances make it an apples/oranges comparison (somewhere around only 40 career threes). Bridges volume should be plenty sufficient, just not sure I’d weight the percentage of a C&S wing the same as On-ball shooters like Booker or off-ball movement/screening from popping bigs or potentially Cam.

[bwgood77]

It's strange to see so many people bashing Ayton so badly and a bunch talking about trading him for Towns before we've even played 1 game.

I'm used to seeing people more pumped up going into the season and not getting down until 10 games in (or in some years 2 or 3).

But a second year player before he's played getting this much negative talk, and talk of trading him, especially considering our draft picks the two years before, is a bit bizarre.

[MathiasPW]

Think the poll here regarding 3P% is mostly right. I’d have Cam Johnson, then Booker who’s 3P has been better than the percentages suggest, and then a group of Kaminsky and possibly Saric depending on Saric’s volume of C&S compared to OS or popping deep. Saric is interesting because he was lights out in PnP last season but career-wise has generally been just OK there.

In terms of expected gravity I’d clearly go Booker #1 in a tier by himself, then Kaminsky followed by a group of Saric, Tyler, and Cam.

Cam is the wildcard, gravity-wise to slide into 3rd, depending on his off-ball movement which is asking a lot of a rookie. He’s for sure the team’s knockdown shooter, though.

I wouldn’t include Baynes here. His % aside, his volume and shot distances make it an apples/oranges comparison (somewhere around only 40 career threes). Bridges volume should be plenty sufficient, just not sure I’d weight the percentage of a C&S wing the same as On-ball shooters like Booker or off-ball movement/screening from popping bigs or potentially Cam.

Connecting two topics here: in terms of gravity, Ayton really has not shown much, albeit being an efficient scorer.
I think that happens because he doesn't establish much position in the paint nor drives/dribbles much, which are types of plays who usually drag defenders towards you. He scores a lot on midrange catch and shoot plays and lobs or putbacks (90% of his shots have 0 or 1 dribble, and only 51% of his shots were in the restricted area, with 73% of them being assisted).

If he stands at the elbow/FT line to drag the opposing rim protector out, it's not far enough, so the defender can recover if one of our guards drives past his man. He really does not force the defense to adjust too much to his presence, yet.

Maybe the presence of a capable playmaker will allow him to play deeper in the paint and force some double-teams. It would do wonders for our offense.

[Frank Lee]

Whatever Bwg
This is an observation from me. The kid runs his mouth about how good he's going to be, when he frankly is, miles away on what we/others think he can potentially be. His lack of passion for this game is evident. I don't care how old he is, how many yrs he has.... passion and fire have no age limits. Compare his approach to the game to Bagley or Donic. Those guys are killers. They bring it. They are not resting on the compliments and accolades and ego pumping reach arounds that everyone is giving them. Ayton dines on that syrup daily.

The trade talk is just fun stuff that gets done around here. We all know it won't happen for a while. but No more far fetched than the 20 and 10 he's a HOFer chatter. But If this candy sucking kid doesn't man up and start showing some aggression, some determination (and just shuts the F up)....well then may be we have something. He's a nice kid whose basketball career has been paved with pyrite bricks simply due to his physical stature. He is the poster child for 'IF'.

Unbelievable potential, but subpar determination. He plays scared. How do you correct that Is it his nature ? I'll creep out on the stereotyping limb and attribute part of his passiveness to his cultural upbringing. I've known several people from the islands, and they are truly the most consistently laid back people Ive met. Im sure there are some 'baddies' down there... but in my limited old white guy experience, hands down, overall, they are the nicest group of people I know, top to bottom. May be its a front...IDK. But this kid has way too much of a jolly-by-golly attitude to be on a fast track to superstardom.

To build a team around him at this point the wrong direction to go. Stats be damned, he's the weak link in the starting 5.

[bwgood77]

Whatever Bwg
This is an observation from me. The kid runs his mouth about how good he's going to be, when he frankly is, miles away on what we/others think he can potentially be. His lack of passion for this game is evident. I don't care how old he is, how many yrs he has.... passion and fire have no age limits. Compare his approach to the game to Bagley or Donic. Those guys are killers. They bring it. They are not resting on the compliments and accolades and ego pumping reach arounds that everyone is giving them. Ayton dines on that syrup daily.

The trade talk is just fun stuff that gets done around here. We all know it won't happen for a while. but No more far fetched than the 20 and 10 he's a HOFer chatter. But If this candy sucking kid doesn't man up and start showing some aggression, some determination (and just shuts the F up)....well then may be we have something. He's a nice kid whose basketball career has been paved with pyrite bricks simply due to his physical stature. He is the poster child for 'IF'.

Unbelievable potential, but subpar determination. He plays scared. How do you correct that Is it his nature ? I'll creep out on the stereotyping limb and attribute part of his passiveness to his cultural upbringing. I've known several people from the islands, and they are truly the most consistently laid back people Ive met. Im sure there are some 'baddies' down there... but in my limited old white guy experience, hands down, overall, they are the nicest group of people I know, top to bottom. May be its a front...IDK. But this kid has way too much of a jolly-by-golly attitude to be on a fast track to superstardom.

To build a team around him at this point the wrong direction to go. Stats be damned, he's the weak link in the starting 5.

It's not just you, it's a lot of people. A lot of people on twitter. I'm used to your posts obviously, the negative, to the very positive and back I guess.

I don't necessarily disagree with a lot of what you are saying...the timing of everyone saying it right now just seems odd. A lot of guys don't play with a lot of fire during the preseason...probably most. He has never looked like he had passion for the game, and rarely played with intensity, and a lot of times seems like his head isn't in it, and you saw and commented on the post about him playing the game "like it's his hobby" seems pretty on par too from a lot of his games. I just usually hear more about this type of stuff from people later than a week before tipoff of our first game.

I wouldn't have chosen to build a team around him either, but we did. A number of GMs picked Jaren Jackson to be the breakout player this year. Maybe if him and Bagley start out strong, as well as Trae and Doncic, it will help light that fire.

It is sad people are arguing that they'd rather have him than Trae, picked 5th. I hope he's a better choice than the 5th draft pick. Hopefully he's better than more than 1 player that went in the top 5.

[GoodBehavior]

Whatever Bwg
This is an observation from me. The kid runs his mouth about how good he's going to be, when he frankly is, miles away on what we/others think he can potentially be. His lack of passion for this game is evident. I don't care how old he is, how many yrs he has.... passion and fire have no age limits. Compare his approach to the game to Bagley or Donic. Those guys are killers. They bring it. They are not resting on the compliments and accolades and ego pumping reach arounds that everyone is giving them. Ayton dines on that syrup daily.

The trade talk is just fun stuff that gets done around here. We all know it won't happen for a while. but No more far fetched than the 20 and 10 he's a HOFer chatter. But If this candy sucking kid doesn't man up and start showing some aggression, some determination (and just shuts the F up)....well then may be we have something. He's a nice kid whose basketball career has been paved with pyrite bricks simply due to his physical stature. He is the poster child for 'IF'.

Unbelievable potential, but subpar determination. He plays scared. How do you correct that Is it his nature ? I'll creep out on the stereotyping limb and attribute part of his passiveness to his cultural upbringing. I've known several people from the islands, and they are truly the most consistently laid back people Ive met. Im sure there are some 'baddies' down there... but in my limited old white guy experience, hands down, overall, they are the nicest group of people I know, top to bottom. May be its a front...IDK. But this kid has way too much of a jolly-by-golly attitude to be on a fast track to superstardom.

To build a team around him at this point the wrong direction to go. Stats be damned, he's the weak link in the starting 5.

"His talent and grace had never been questioned, but the feeling was growing that after four seasons in the league he was too much of a finesse player, too reliant on jump shots instead of inside power moves. In short, the thinking was that he was too soft to lead the Spurs to an NBA championship."

This was a quote from SI regarding DAVID ROBINSON, after he posted four seasons of respectable stats to begin his career and considered "soft". David was known as someone without passion for the game, and had too many interests outside the game. FWIW, season five and beyond, David Robinson took his game to absurd level and became a perennial MVP candidate.

It takes time to develop into a dominant player. Yes, DA says a lot of questionable stuff (bully season), but drawing any conclusion from just one year of play and his personality is just shortsighted. Remember when Tim Duncan was criticized for not having "killer instinct." Would anyone say that today?

[Jarlaxle0204]

It's strange to see so many people bashing Ayton so badly and a bunch talking about trading him for Towns before we've even played 1 game.

I'm used to seeing people more pumped up going into the season and not getting down until 10 games in (or in some years 2 or 3).

But a second year player before he's played getting this much negative talk, and talk of trading him, especially considering our draft picks the two years before, is a bit bizarre.

It seems to be getting worse every year. I think the past two years there's been an increase in expectations for the team and people are just getting really frustrated with the losing. If we don't show some improvement this year, I don't look forward to reading all the posts about how we need to trade Booker and Ayton over and over.

[MathiasPW]

Whatever Bwg
This is an observation from me. The kid runs his mouth about how good he's going to be, when he frankly is, miles away on what we/others think he can potentially be. His lack of passion for this game is evident. I don't care how old he is, how many yrs he has.... passion and fire have no age limits. Compare his approach to the game to Bagley or Donic. Those guys are killers. They bring it. They are not resting on the compliments and accolades and ego pumping reach arounds that everyone is giving them. Ayton dines on that syrup daily.

The trade talk is just fun stuff that gets done around here. We all know it won't happen for a while. but No more far fetched than the 20 and 10 he's a HOFer chatter. But If this candy sucking kid doesn't man up and start showing some aggression, some determination (and just shuts the F up)....well then may be we have something. He's a nice kid whose basketball career has been paved with pyrite bricks simply due to his physical stature. He is the poster child for 'IF'.

Unbelievable potential, but subpar determination. He plays scared. How do you correct that Is it his nature ? I'll creep out on the stereotyping limb and attribute part of his passiveness to his cultural upbringing. I've known several people from the islands, and they are truly the most consistently laid back people Ive met. Im sure there are some 'baddies' down there... but in my limited old white guy experience, hands down, overall, they are the nicest group of people I know, top to bottom. May be its a front...IDK. But this kid has way too much of a jolly-by-golly attitude to be on a fast track to superstardom.

To build a team around him at this point the wrong direction to go. Stats be damned, he's the weak link in the starting 5.

"His talent and grace had never been questioned, but the feeling was growing that after four seasons in the league he was too much of a finesse player, too reliant on jump shots instead of inside power moves. In short, the thinking was that he was too soft to lead the Spurs to an NBA championship."

This was a quote from SI regarding DAVID ROBINSON, after he posted four seasons of respectable stats to begin his career and considered "soft". David was known as someone without passion for the game, and had too many interests outside the game. FWIW, season five and beyond, David Robinson took his game to absurd level and became a perennial MVP candidate.

It takes time to develop into a dominant player. Yes, DA says a lot of questionable stuff (bully season), but drawing any conclusion from just one year of play and his personality is just shortsighted. Remember when Tim Duncan was criticized for not having "killer instinct." Would anyone say that today?

While this is an awesome find (really is), for every David Robinson there have been many bums who just never amounted to anything. Statistics may be against him, but our hope sure is that he gets it.

[bwgood77]

It's strange to see so many people bashing Ayton so badly and a bunch talking about trading him for Towns before we've even played 1 game.

I'm used to seeing people more pumped up going into the season and not getting down until 10 games in (or in some years 2 or 3).

But a second year player before he's played getting this much negative talk, and talk of trading him, especially considering our draft picks the two years before, is a bit bizarre.

It seems to be getting worse every year. I think the past two years there's been an increase in expectations for the team and people are just getting really frustrated with the losing. If we don't show some improvement this year, I don't look forward to reading all the posts about how we need to trade Booker and Ayton over and over.

The worse we do the less trade value they will have anyway. The trades that have been brought up wouldn't happen with the other teams anyway. And our team wouldn't likely trade Booker or probably Ayton since they are the faces and marketing of the franchise. However, many argued how we would draft Ayton because of the marketability and him being a UA guy. I can't imagine our attendance ended up being much higher last year, if it was higher at all, because of drafting him, after the first few weeks or so. It might have been higher with a different draft pick. But at this point, what's done is done. Of course we have a surprise draft choice this year too.

[Jarlaxle0204]

You might be right with the marketing. I really hope that was not the reason we picked him. I had no problems with the pick and still don't. He can be a very valuable piece and I look forward to seeing him progress this year. I've already seen some decent chemistry between him and Rubio in the preseason.

[GoodBehavior]

Whatever Bwg
This is an observation from me. The kid runs his mouth about how good he's going to be, when he frankly is, miles away on what we/others think he can potentially be. His lack of passion for this game is evident. I don't care how old he is, how many yrs he has.... passion and fire have no age limits. Compare his approach to the game to Bagley or Donic. Those guys are killers. They bring it. They are not resting on the compliments and accolades and ego pumping reach arounds that everyone is giving them. Ayton dines on that syrup daily.

The trade talk is just fun stuff that gets done around here. We all know it won't happen for a while. but No more far fetched than the 20 and 10 he's a HOFer chatter. But If this candy sucking kid doesn't man up and start showing some aggression, some determination (and just shuts the F up)....well then may be we have something. He's a nice kid whose basketball career has been paved with pyrite bricks simply due to his physical stature. He is the poster child for 'IF'.

Unbelievable potential, but subpar determination. He plays scared. How do you correct that Is it his nature ? I'll creep out on the stereotyping limb and attribute part of his passiveness to his cultural upbringing. I've known several people from the islands, and they are truly the most consistently laid back people Ive met. Im sure there are some 'baddies' down there... but in my limited old white guy experience, hands down, overall, they are the nicest group of people I know, top to bottom. May be its a front...IDK. But this kid has way too much of a jolly-by-golly attitude to be on a fast track to superstardom.

To build a team around him at this point the wrong direction to go. Stats be damned, he's the weak link in the starting 5.

"His talent and grace had never been questioned, but the feeling was growing that after four seasons in the league he was too much of a finesse player, too reliant on jump shots instead of inside power moves. In short, the thinking was that he was too soft to lead the Spurs to an NBA championship."

This was a quote from SI regarding DAVID ROBINSON, after he posted four seasons of respectable stats to begin his career and considered "soft". David was known as someone without passion for the game, and had too many interests outside the game. FWIW, season five and beyond, David Robinson took his game to absurd level and became a perennial MVP candidate.

It takes time to develop into a dominant player. Yes, DA says a lot of questionable stuff (bully season), but drawing any conclusion from just one year of play and his personality is just shortsighted. Remember when Tim Duncan was criticized for not having "killer instinct." Would anyone say that today?

While this is awesome find (really is), for every David Robinson there have been many bums who just never amounted to anything. Statistics may be against him, but our hope sure is that he gets it.

It's the opposite. Statistics heavily favored him being a monster. He has a ridiculous frame and absurd strength level. He will be a beast one day, especially in a game where opposing center keeps getting smaller. His progression is going as plan.

It just guys like Frank Lee assume you have to be a "hard" center from day one. And that's not the case. It's the opposite. Jokic got pushed around like a rag doll in his rookie year. LMA was considered soft for years. AD was considered soft, and still is. Tyson Chandler is a 180 degree different player than when he emerge as a undersized center. I already mentioned Tim Duncan and Robinson, etc. Like I said before, there's no 20 year old center, except Shaq, that didn't go through some physical transformation and frankly some bumps and pains. You're expected to be weak during your rookie year. Joel said DA was going to get his ass beat during his first year, and that's EXACTLY what happened. You have to pay your dues.

And this passion/fire thing is also nonsense. How often did Tim Duncan show fire in games? The kid stayed in Phoenix all summer and worked his butts off. When he has a bad game, the pain is evident in his post game interviews. DA also got into a shouting match with Booker. Kid clearly cares. The only thing I agree with Frank is DA talks a lot nonsense, but that's just his playful personality.

[SunsLyf3]

It's strange to see so many people bashing Ayton so badly and a bunch talking about trading him for Towns before we've even played 1 game.

I'm used to seeing people more pumped up going into the season and not getting down until 10 games in (or in some years 2 or 3).

But a second year player before he's played getting this much negative talk, and talk of trading him, especially considering our draft picks the two years before, is a bit bizarre.

2nd year player who had a historic rookie season nonetheless. People are still sore about Luka and its becoming a cancer here.

[GoodBehavior]

It's strange to see so many people bashing Ayton so badly and a bunch talking about trading him for Towns before we've even played 1 game.

I'm used to seeing people more pumped up going into the season and not getting down until 10 games in (or in some years 2 or 3).

But a second year player before he's played getting this much negative talk, and talk of trading him, especially considering our draft picks the two years before, is a bit bizarre.

2nd year player who had a historic rookie season nonetheless. People are still sore about Luka and its becoming a cancer here.

+1, hit it right on the nail. Subconscious racial preference as well. You all know what I am talking about.

[bwgood77]

"His talent and grace had never been questioned, but the feeling was growing that after four seasons in the league he was too much of a finesse player, too reliant on jump shots instead of inside power moves. In short, the thinking was that he was too soft to lead the Spurs to an NBA championship."

This was a quote from SI regarding DAVID ROBINSON, after he posted four seasons of respectable stats to begin his career and considered "soft". David was known as someone without passion for the game, and had too many interests outside the game. FWIW, season five and beyond, David Robinson took his game to absurd level and became a perennial MVP candidate.

It takes time to develop into a dominant player. Yes, DA says a lot of questionable stuff (bully season), but drawing any conclusion from just one year of play and his personality is just shortsighted. Remember when Tim Duncan was criticized for not having "killer instinct." Would anyone say that today?

While this is awesome find (really is), for every David Robinson there have been many bums who just never amounted to anything. Statistics may be against him, but our hope sure is that he gets it.

It's the opposite. Statistics heavily favored him being a monster. He has a ridiculous frame and absurd strength level. He will be a beast one day, especially in a game where opposing center keeps getting smaller. His progression is going as plan.

It just guys like Frank Lee assume you have to be a "hard" center from day one. And that's not the case. It's the opposite. Jokic got pushed around like a rag doll in his rookie year. LMA was considered soft for years. AD was considered soft, and still is. Tyson Chandler is a 180 degree different player than when he emerge as a undersized center. I already mentioned Tim Duncan and Robinson, etc. Like I said before, there's no 20 year old center, except Shaq, that didn't go through some physical transformation and frankly some bumps and pains. You're expected to be weak during your rookie year. Joel said DA was going to get his ass beat during his first year, and that's EXACTLY what happened. You have to pay your dues.

And this passion/fire thing is also nonsense. How often did Tim Duncan show fire in games? The kid stayed in Phoenix all summer and worked his butts off. When he has a bad game, the pain is evident in his post game interviews. DA also got into a shouting match with Booker. Kid clearly cares. The only thing I agree with Frank is DA talks a lot nonsense, but that's just his playful personality.

Robinson didn't do much his freshman year in college, but his second year he averaged 4 bpg along with over 23 ppg and over 11 rpg, and his jr year is was 5.9 bpg, and 22+ ppg along with 13 rpg.

Even as a rookie in the NBA (of course he was 24) he averaged 24 and 12 with 3.9 bpg, 1.7 spg, and 2 apg.

Even if his scoring wasn't in a dominant fashion, he was obviously a very good defensive C and rim protector early.

[bwgood77]

It's strange to see so many people bashing Ayton so badly and a bunch talking about trading him for Towns before we've even played 1 game.

I'm used to seeing people more pumped up going into the season and not getting down until 10 games in (or in some years 2 or 3).

But a second year player before he's played getting this much negative talk, and talk of trading him, especially considering our draft picks the two years before, is a bit bizarre.

2nd year player who had a historic rookie season nonetheless. People are still sore about Luka and its becoming a cancer here.

+1, hit it right on the nail. Subconscious racial preference as well. You all know what I am talking about.

I don't know that we need to get into race, but I think, in general, people would rather not draft white guys....or euro guys. The primary reason most wanted Doncic was because it was clearly evident he was a fierce competitor and winner, and had the perfect type of game for the modern NBA. You were never going to question heart from him.