Game 61: Phoenix Suns (31-29) @ Miami Heat (25-33)

[JTrain]

Goran was a bitch and wanted out. He quit on us. What part of that do you not understand?

Goran wanted out of this **** stain of a team

That's fine. I don't care anymore. He's not a Sun anymore so I don't care. All the Gogi fanbois need to find the appropriate Heat board. This isn't the place for them anymore.

Here are three possible thoughts expressing opinions:

1. Thinking Dragic made a reasonable decision to leave the Suns
2. Liking Dragic
3. Wanting the Suns to win every game (i.e. being a Suns fan)

None of these are mutually exclusive.

[bwoolf2]

We are a young team, 3rd youngest in the NBA young teams dont win in the NBA that is just a fact. So if any one here is expecting them to win this year or next you are just being naive. Now if you dont like the talent or assets they have then fine but if you are bitching cause they arent competing for the 8th seed get over it. I happen to like a lot of their talent, I think Hornacek has had a bad year but not ready to write him off yet. If Len continues to progress he will be the best player on this team in the next couple of years and one of the best big men in the league at age 23 which means we should be competitive for a long time.

[bwgood77]

Tucker with 20/14, yep what a total liability.

Played well at center. I've always like him playing as a big rather outside. He is not good at SF position.


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We really should have trialled him at the PF spot earlier on. Was calling for it in the offseason.

- He can play stretch PF from the corner and slip baseline for offensive rebounds
- He rebounds like a PF
- He can guard PFs
- Would stop teams being able to give their star perimeter guy a night off defensively
- would alleviate the SF logjam
- probably the team's best defensive rebounder, which is what you want next to Len altering shots

Bledsoe/ Knight
Knight/ Archie
Marcus/ Warren
Tucker/ Markieff
Len/ Wright

Reward the guy that gives the most effort.

In that case, just start Warren and let the twins come off the bench together. Then we have a major strength off the bench and at least 2-3 guys in the starting unit who can stretch the floor to open up space for Bledsoe to drive.

[Sunsdeuce]

Tucker with 20/14, yep what a total liability.

Played well at center. I've always like him playing as a big rather outside. He is not good at SF position.


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When Tucker is your best player on the court, your not a very good team and more than likely you are going to lose.

Anyway this season is on par with 2012-2013 as one of the worst I have seen. From start to soon to be finish.
1a) bledsoe's long drawn out signing
1b) Tucker gets an extreme DWI
2) Tucker misses team buses
3) IT starts complaining about his role
4) players laughing in the locker room after loses
5) Archie starts talking about possibly wanting to leave to be able to play
6) Morris twins involved in an assault case
7) Dragic starts complaining about his role and calls of the organziation
7a) the Suns FO is unprofessional and calls out dragic
8) dragic is traded for scraps
9) IT is traded
10) the Morris twins call out the fans (of all people)
11) markeiff and his damn technicals
12) Suns record since the all-star break is depressing.

This is depressing. Everyone on the board deserves better. Most of us have been a Suns fan for a very long time and have stayed loyal. Each and every person on this board deserves a winning team.

[nevetsov]

In that case, just start Warren and let the twins come off the bench together. Then we have a major strength off the bench and at least 2-3 guys in the starting unit who can stretch the floor to open up space for Bledsoe to drive.

Gotta get Marcus's trade value up in time for the offseason. Keef has already proven to be great value.

[RunDogGun]

Tucker with 20/14, yep what a total liability.

Played well at center. I've always like him playing as a big rather outside. He is not good at SF position.


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Start him at the four then. Move Morris to the bench with his brother. Try TJ for a few games, and see how he responds. And again, run Knight with Goodwin, and Bledsoe with Bullock.

[Revived]

I now understand why Dragic was on the verge of tears sometimes playing with these guys.

I can't think of a player in the NBA who wouldn't have wanted to leave this train wreck if they had the choice (upcoming FA leverage) and was as good as him.

[Son of Ra]

What...
...the ****...
...did I just watch?

[Marz11]

We are a young team, 3rd youngest in the NBA young teams dont win in the NBA that is just a fact. So if any one here is expecting them to win this year or next you are just being naive. Now if you dont like the talent or assets they have then fine but if you are bitching cause they arent competing for the 8th seed get over it. I happen to like a lot of their talent, I think Hornacek has had a bad year but not ready to write him off yet. If Len continues to progress he will be the best player on this team in the next couple of years and one of the best big men in the league at age 23 which means we should be competitive for a long time.

I agree in that a young team probably won't win a lot, but a young team should play hard and there should be a culture built to help that young team grow. That is missing and that is the worrying part.

Seeing this team go backwards this season in terms of effort and helping each other is really not a good sign for the future of this team.

The culture is set by management and the coach. When the FO is reactive, defensive and don't take responsibility, then what are they teaching the players?

[SunsFanSSOL]

Lost the passion to watch anymore games. This franchise is going in the dumper really fast, the Suns have become a joke, a downfall which has been 5 years in the making. This isn't the same franchise that I became a fan of during the SSOL years. If I could make a metaphor for my relationship with this team, it would be like watching a close friend or family member develop a drug addiction that changes them to the point where you don't even know who they are anymore. I don't recognize this team, they may have the same colors, play in the same arena, have the same logos, but they're not MY Suns. I'm not from Phoenix, and when people ask me what team I root for, it's embarrassing to say the Suns, I usually get a response like "why?" or "that's weird," and understandably so. If the NBA had a caste system the Suns would be grouped with the Denver Nuggets, Milwaukee Bucks, Minnesota Timberwolves and Orlando Magic's of the league.

I don't know how you could destroy the soul of a team so proficiently. The Suns lost their identity, they're not a fun team to root for anymore, and I don't feel like that is going to change unless Sarver sells the team. If you want to see the soul of the team that we all fell in love with during the Nash years, go and watch the Warriors, they've basically stolen the Suns identity, except perfected it, while the Suns seem to be throwing sh*t at the wall and hope it sticks. It seemed we were on the right track after last season, then we fell off the deep end. I think it's pretty clear last season was a fluke, for all involved. Just to highlight some of the mistakes Sarver has made:

- Forced Kerr out
- Didn't re-sign Amar'e
- Traded LB for Turkoglu
- Signed Childress and Warrick
- Hired Lance Blanks
- Hired an agent, Lon Babby to be President of Basketball Operations
- Pathetically strung Nash around for the last of his years
- Drafted Markieff Morris over Kawhi Leonard
- Traded for Marcus Morris
- "Have fun or get a refund night vs the Mavs."
- Made Michael Beasley our FA priority
- Fired Alvin Gentry, left Majerle and Elston Turner in limbo
- Hired Lindsey Hunter
- Traded Gortat for Tyler Ennis
- Refused to trade a 2nd Rounder for Pau Gasol
- Signed Zoran Dragic
- Signed Isaiah Thomas
- Alienated our players (Plumlee requested a trade, Archie said he intends to request a trade if he doesn't get playtime, Dragic requested a trade, IT probably requested a trade)
- Keeping Hornacek as coach despite his plays and rotations
- Having players question the fan support

Looking closer at Dragic's comments makes me understand his point more. I wouldn't want to play for the Suns if I was in the NBA, and I'm a Suns fan. This FO is delusional. They thought LeBron or Carmelo would want to play here? What a joke. Not even Amare Stoudemire on his last leg wants to play here. Not even no name players like Dragic and Plumlee want to play here. Not even Spencer Hawes wanted to play here. How pathetic. Who does want to play here? Bledsoe if we hold him at gunpoint and give him $70m? The Morris twins if we promise to keep them together? Tucker if we overpay him? This is a very unlikable team at the moment. They remind me of the AZ Diamondbacks with their cheapness and poor product.

We were the OKC Thunder of the 2000's, the market wasn't strong, but the product was entertaining so people from all over, including me, bought in. You didn't have to be from Arizona to love the Suns, they had universal appeal. Few teams in the NBA have this appeal, and the Suns are no longer one of them. This team shows no loyalty to its fans, so it shouldn't expect it in return. The passion we have poored into this team hasn't been returned. I thought that trading Dragic and IT and hitting the reset button would go a long way, but its obviously that our problems are much more deeply rooted. /endrant

[RunDogGun]

Played well at center. I've always like him playing as a big rather outside. He is not good at SF position.


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We really should have trialled him at the PF spot earlier on. Was calling for it in the offseason.

- He can play stretch PF from the corner and slip baseline for offensive rebounds
- He rebounds like a PF
- He can guard PFs
- Would stop teams being able to give their star perimeter guy a night off defensively
- would alleviate the SF logjam
- probably the team's best defensive rebounder, which is what you want next to Len altering shots

Bledsoe/ Knight
Knight/ Archie
Marcus/ Warren
Tucker/ Markieff
Len/ Wright

Reward the guy that gives the most effort.

In that case, just start Warren and let the twins come off the bench together. Then we have a major strength off the bench and at least 2-3 guys in the starting unit who can stretch the floor to open up space for Bledsoe to drive.

Funny, I didn't see your comment when I was posting. I would also start Bullock some games at the three, if the opposing team has a stud three. Bullock used to guard the best wing in college. If he is to be our 3D guy, then we have nothing to lose by testing that now.

We've lost too many games recently, to stick with Green as the first guard off the bench.

So shake things up a bit. We need to keep fresh legs on the court, and run teams out of the building. Attack the rim over and over. Have at least one guy follow the driver and clean up any misses, or missed shots off fouls not called.

But man, if I was coaching, I would have guys shooting free throws after the game. If anyone walks back in defense, you pull them. I don't care who it is, and you rip them a new one on the sideline.

But first things first, throw as much money as needed at Mike Fratello to be the Del Harris. Hornacek needs vet coaching to help him.

[JTrain]

Warren, Morris Twins, Knight, and 1st rounder for Paul George. Pacers can't say no to that.


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[Revived]

Lost the passion to watch anymore games. This franchise is going in the dumper really fast, the Suns have become a joke, a downfall which has been 5 years in the making. This isn't the same franchise that I became a fan of during the SSOL years. If I could make a metaphor for my relationship with this team, it would be like watching a close friend or family member develop a drug addiction that changes them to the point where you don't even know who they are anymore. I don't recognize this team, they may have the same colors, play in the same arena, have the same logos, but they're not MY Suns. I'm not from Phoenix, and when people ask me what team I root for, it's embarrassing to say the Suns, I usually get a response like "why?" or "that's weird," and understandably so. If the NBA had a caste system the Suns would be grouped with the Denver Nuggets, Milwaukee Bucks, Minnesota Timberwolves and Orlando Magic's of the league.

I don't know how you could destroy the soul of a team so proficiently. The Suns lost their identity, they're not a fun team to root for anymore, and I don't feel like that is going to change unless Sarver sells the team. If you want to see the soul of the team that we all fell in love with during the Nash years, go and watch the Warriors, they've basically stolen the Suns identity, except perfected it, while the Suns seem to be throwing sh*t at the wall and hope it sticks. It seemed we were on the right track after last season, then we fell off the deep end. I think it's pretty clear last season was a fluke, for all involved. Just to highlight some of the mistakes Sarver has made:

- Forced Kerr out
- Didn't re-sign Amar'e
- Traded LB for Turkoglu
- Signed Childress and Warrick
- Hired Lance Blanks
- Hired an agent, Lon Babby to be President of Basketball Operations
- Pathetically strung Nash around for the last of his years
- Drafted Markieff Morris over Kawhi Leonard
- Traded for Marcus Morris
- "Have fun or get a refund night vs the Mavs."
- Made Michael Beasley our FA priority
- Fired Alvin Gentry, left Majerle and Elston Turner in limbo
- Hired Lindsey Hunter
- Traded Gortat for Tyler Ennis
- Refused to trade a 2nd Rounder for Pau Gasol
- Signed Zoran Dragic
- Signed Isaiah Thomas
- Alienated our players (Plumlee requested a trade, Archie said he intends to request a trade if he doesn't get playtime, Dragic requested a trade, IT probably requested a trade)
- Keeping Hornacek as coach despite his plays and rotations
- Having players question the fan support

Looking closer at Dragic's comments makes me understand his point more. I wouldn't want to play for the Suns if I was in the NBA, and I'm a Suns fan. This FO is delusional. They thought LeBron or Carmelo would want to play here? What a joke. Not even Amare Stoudemire on his last leg wants to play here. Not even no name players like Dragic and Plumlee want to play here. Not even Spencer Hawes wanted to play here. How pathetic. Who does want to play here? Bledsoe if we hold him at gunpoint and give him $70m? The Morris twins if we promise to keep them together? Tucker if we overpay him? This is a very unlikable team at the moment. They remind me of the AZ Diamondbacks with their cheapness and poor product.

We were the OKC Thunder of the 2000's, the market wasn't strong, but the product was entertaining so people from all over, including me, bought in. You didn't have to be from Arizona to love the Suns, they had universal appeal. Few teams in the NBA have this appeal, and the Suns are no longer one of them. This team shows no loyalty to its fans, so it shouldn't expect it in return. The passion we have poored into this team hasn't been returned. I thought that trading Dragic and IT and hitting the reset button would go a long way, but its obviously that our problems are much more deeply rooted. /endrant

Not enough fans realize this. There's still people here who are very excited about the direction of the franchise. And sports is a business, as long as fans are happy, don't expect many changes.

[Son of Ra]

Didn't even read any of the posts yet in this thread but I don't even know if I want to. Really don't have any interest in reading posts defending even this sh.itshow tonight...

[bwgood77]

In that case, just start Warren and let the twins come off the bench together. Then we have a major strength off the bench and at least 2-3 guys in the starting unit who can stretch the floor to open up space for Bledsoe to drive.

Gotta get Marcus's trade value up in time for the offseason. Keef has already proven to be great value.

You sure starting him would INCREASE his trade value? Going against second units with Kieff might help (or at least not hurt as much).

[Revived]

Didn't even read any of the posts yet in this thread but I don't even know if I want to. Really don't have any interest in reading posts defending even this sh.itshow tonight...

Isn't it fascinating that there is people still defending this crap?

[bwgood77]

Funny, I didn't see your comment when I was posting. I would also start Bullock some games at the three, if the opposing team has a stud three. Bullock used to guard the best wing in college. If he is to be our 3D guy, then we have nothing to lose by testing that now.

We've lost too many games recently, to stick with Green as the first guard off the bench.

So shake things up a bit. We need to keep fresh legs on the court, and run teams out of the building. Attack the rim over and over. Have at least one guy follow the driver and clean up any misses, or missed shots off fouls not called.

But man, if I was coaching, I would have guys shooting free throws after the game. If anyone walks back in defense, you pull them. I don't care who it is, and you rip them a new one on the sideline.

But first things first, throw as much money as needed at Mike Fratello to be the Del Harris. Hornacek needs vet coaching to help him.

I agree. I want to see more Bullock. Everyone wants more Archie but I want to see if Bullock can be a knock down shooter. Yes, a vet presence on the coaching staff might be a positive thing. Heck, maybe they need a guy who wouldn't back down from anyone and would tell them how crappy they are at rebounding. Rodman? OK, not coaching material but I'd love to see him talk to the twins and stare them down about their rebounding skills and selfish ball.

[RunDogGun]

We are a young team, 3rd youngest in the NBA young teams dont win in the NBA that is just a fact. So if any one here is expecting them to win this year or next you are just being naive. Now if you dont like the talent or assets they have then fine but if you are bitching cause they arent competing for the 8th seed get over it. I happen to like a lot of their talent, I think Hornacek has had a bad year but not ready to write him off yet. If Len continues to progress he will be the best player on this team in the next couple of years and one of the best big men in the league at age 23 which means we should be competitive for a long time.

I agree in that a young team probably won't win a lot, but a young team should play hard and there should be a culture built to help that young team grow. That is missing and that is the worrying part.

Seeing this team go backwards this season in terms of effort and helping each other is really not a good sign for the future of this team.

The culture is set by management and the coach. When the FO is reactive, defensive and don't take responsibility, then what are they teaching the players?

But we had that in the OKC game, which was just a few games ago. What I see is that guys can't get over the touch to tackle treatment we get. In this game, the first quarter was good. Both team got calls, and non calls. It was pretty even. Then the second quarter was nuts. We drawing the contact, but getting little to nothing. Back to our three fouls to get one called. It changed the game. We tried to get back into the game in the third, and then we lose both Morris and Len on two bs situations. Game was changed.

Throughout the season, we have been in almost every game, but the free throw differential has been greater than the loss differential. We aren't good enough at shooting to overcome this. So what happens? Guys turn to hero ball and ISO instead of team ball. Jeff needs to step up. He needs to work better two man teams, and better plays. Green's minutes should be given to guys we have under contract past this season. Thornton doesn't need to play for us, for the same reason.

[letsgosuns]

Well I have been bad mouthing the Morris brothers the entire season and was pummeled by fans telling me I am stupid. Now so many people see why I bashed them. Besides the fact that their on court play has been average at best, their actions on and off the court are detrimental to the team in every way. Just take a look at how poorly Markieff has handled himself on the court this year. This does not even include anything from the past month.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qS6pGNovW0c

I know people will argue how Markieff's statistics show he is one of the best clutch scorers in the league at the end of games. Okay. Yes I will give him that. He has hit big shots many times this year. However, the fact remains that he flat out sucks on defense and rebounding, is a selfish basketball player (Marcus is even more selfish), and his attitude is awful. He does not take responsibility for anything. He even said after the game tonight that it was just a hard foul. If he had any class or maturity he should have just said I should not have put the team in that position to play without me. Hell he had already had one technical earlier in the game. He is pathetic.

[Jdiddy701]

I just don't get how Throton plays.


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