Suns Offseason Thread 4: Where's Terrence Williams?

[gaspar]

Here are some stats for all of you who think that Tristan Thompson is so much better defensively than Keef:

DRPM:
Markieff 3.03
Thompson -0.48

DefRtg:
Markieff 101.4 on, 107.1 off, -5.7 diff.
Tristan 104.3 on, 103.8 off, +0.5 diff.

Opponent's PPP on post-ups:
Markieff 0.81 (194 poss)
Tristan 0.78 (157)

Opponent's PPP on pick and roll:
Markieff 0.73 (80)
Tristan 0.68 (73)

Opponent's PPP on spot-ups:
Markieff 0.88 (184)
Tristan 1.02 (140)

Opponent's FG% at rim:
Markieff 52.4%
Tristan 52.2%

Def FG% diff. (negative is better):
Markieff -0.1
Tristan +1.0

[suns91fan]

This season will either be a complete surprise and we will shock the NBA and make the playoffs

OR

This season will be a disaster and we will fight the Lakers for the last spot in the division.

Last season we lost 18 games by five points or less and nearly won half our games. I would say the addition of Chandler is going to push us over .500 ... the real question is will we hit 50 wins.

A lot has to go right for us to get 50 wins. Hell, I'd argue a lot has to go right for us to finish at .500

To get .500
-Bledsoe needs to be slightly better then last year
-Knight needs to be the player he was with the bucks
-PJ needs to avoid the booze
-Keef needs to match his performance from last year
-Chandler needs to stay healthy.

To get to 50 wins
-Bledsoe needs to improve from last year (less turnover and a 3 point shot)
-Knight needs to put up allstar numbers
-PJ needs to have a good season
-Keef needs to play at the level he did last year AND keep his cool
-Chandler needs to stay healthy and average a double double
-Len needs to become the best backup center in the NBA
-TJ needs to become a solid bench threat
-We need at least one other consistent performer off the bench.

Usually I'm an optimistic one, but I just don't know anymore.

If Chandler makes the defensive impact we expect him to make, and propels the Suns into Top 10 (or at least Top 15) defensive team, then 50 wins is very realistic. I don't remember the last time Suns had a center of Chandler's caliber (defensively), so his impact to this team could be massive. It's all about him staying healthy. Hopefully Len learns a lot from him.

Offense has never been a problem here. Pretty or not, it's very effective and that's what matters in the end.

[itlnsunsfan]

Here are some stats for all of you who think that Tristan Thompson is so much better defensively than Keef

Source?

[gaspar]

Here are some stats for all of you who think that Tristan Thompson is so much better defensively than Keef

Source?

DRPM: espn.com
everything else: NBA.com/stats

[Sunsdeuce]

Last season we lost 18 games by five points or less and nearly won half our games. I would say the addition of Chandler is going to push us over .500 ... the real question is will we hit 50 wins.

A lot has to go right for us to get 50 wins. Hell, I'd argue a lot has to go right for us to finish at .500

To get .500
-Bledsoe needs to be slightly better then last year
-Knight needs to be the player he was with the bucks
-PJ needs to avoid the booze
-Keef needs to match his performance from last year
-Chandler needs to stay healthy.

To get to 50 wins
-Bledsoe needs to improve from last year (less turnover and a 3 point shot)
-Knight needs to put up allstar numbers
-PJ needs to have a good season
-Keef needs to play at the level he did last year AND keep his cool
-Chandler needs to stay healthy and average a double double
-Len needs to become the best backup center in the NBA
-TJ needs to become a solid bench threat
-We need at least one other consistent performer off the bench.

Usually I'm an optimistic one, but I just don't know anymore.

If Chandler makes the defensive impact we expect him to make, and propels the Suns into Top 10 (or at least Top 15) defensive team, then 50 wins is very realistic. I don't remember the last time Suns had a center of Chandler's caliber (defensively), so his impact to this team could be massive. It's all about him staying healthy. Hopefully Len learns a lot from him.

Offense has never been a problem here. Pretty or not, it's very effective and that's what matters in the end.

Well actually after the all-star the Suns offense was pretty bad.

[suns91fan]

A lot has to go right for us to get 50 wins. Hell, I'd argue a lot has to go right for us to finish at .500

To get .500
-Bledsoe needs to be slightly better then last year
-Knight needs to be the player he was with the bucks
-PJ needs to avoid the booze
-Keef needs to match his performance from last year
-Chandler needs to stay healthy.

To get to 50 wins
-Bledsoe needs to improve from last year (less turnover and a 3 point shot)
-Knight needs to put up allstar numbers
-PJ needs to have a good season
-Keef needs to play at the level he did last year AND keep his cool
-Chandler needs to stay healthy and average a double double
-Len needs to become the best backup center in the NBA
-TJ needs to become a solid bench threat
-We need at least one other consistent performer off the bench.

Usually I'm an optimistic one, but I just don't know anymore.

If Chandler makes the defensive impact we expect him to make, and propels the Suns into Top 10 (or at least Top 15) defensive team, then 50 wins is very realistic. I don't remember the last time Suns had a center of Chandler's caliber (defensively), so his impact to this team could be massive. It's all about him staying healthy. Hopefully Len learns a lot from him.

Offense has never been a problem here. Pretty or not, it's very effective and that's what matters in the end.

Well actually after the all-star the Suns offense was pretty bad.

1. Big roster changes tend to affect chemistry.
2. Knight (the only starting caliber guard besides Bledsoe) only played 10 games.
3. Suns completely gave up after a loss against the Thunder (ended the last 10 games of the season with only one win)

[NavLDO]

Holy moly! For all you guys that wanted to trade for Gallinari, there's no way he's worth that amount of loot. Up'd this years salary to $14M, next year $15.5M, and $16.1M the year after that. Yeah, good luck with that, Denver...

[NavLDO]

Last season we lost 18 games by five points or less and nearly won half our games. I would say the addition of Chandler is going to push us over .500 ... the real question is will we hit 50 wins.

A lot has to go right for us to get 50 wins. Hell, I'd argue a lot has to go right for us to finish at .500

To get .500
-Bledsoe needs to be slightly better then last year
-Knight needs to be the player he was with the bucks
-PJ needs to avoid the booze
-Keef needs to match his performance from last year
-Chandler needs to stay healthy.

To get to 50 wins
-Bledsoe needs to improve from last year (less turnover and a 3 point shot)
-Knight needs to put up allstar numbers
-PJ needs to have a good season
-Keef needs to play at the level he did last year AND keep his cool
-Chandler needs to stay healthy and average a double double
-Len needs to become the best backup center in the NBA
-TJ needs to become a solid bench threat
-We need at least one other consistent performer off the bench.

Usually I'm an optimistic one, but I just don't know anymore.

If Chandler makes the defensive impact we expect him to make, and propels the Suns into Top 10 (or at least Top 15) defensive team, then 50 wins is very realistic. I don't remember the last time Suns had a center of Chandler's caliber (defensively), so his impact to this team could be massive. It's all about him staying healthy. Hopefully Len learns a lot from him.

Offense has never been a problem here. Pretty or not, it's very effective and that's what matters in the end.

True story. And add in the added impact Warren will have this season, the added 'stretch 4' ability of Mirza/Leuer, and the news of Len pushing is offense out to 16'-20' range, and our offense should be AT LEAST as good as the season before last. Then add in Tyson's 'tip-ins' and the like, and his offensive rebounding prowess, that will give us more '2nd chance' shots, and I'm excited for what our offense will bring. I'm tempering my thoughts on Weems a bit; I'm not sold that he'll be a huge contributor, but I'd love for him to prove me wrong.

And yes, our Defense is likely to be much better, as well, so I think we can get to 50 wins next year, or a least back to 48 wins from two seasons ago.

[bwgood77]

Holy moly! For all you guys that wanted to trade for Gallinari, there's no way he's worth that amount of loot. Up'd this years salary to $14M, next year $15.5M, and $16.1M the year after that. Yeah, good luck with that, Denver...

For them it's worth it. Look at their committed salaries next year. They would be unlikely to be able to get a better player in free agency next year, and they need to spend money to get to the floor. http://hoopshype.com/salaries/denver_nuggets/

[RaisingArizona]

Holy moly! For all you guys that wanted to trade for Gallinari, there's no way he's worth that amount of loot. Up'd this years salary to $14M, next year $15.5M, and $16.1M the year after that. Yeah, good luck with that, Denver...

Kieff at 8 or Gallo at twice that... hmmmm. Tough call!

[letsgosuns]

With the salary cap going up, Gallinari is totally worth it, especially for the Nuggets. I thought they actually got him at a great price. Some people on here thought he was gonna get a max contract and the Nuggets got him way below what the new max will be. Plus can somebody tell me how many times Gallinari has destroyed the Nuggets fan base, been ejected from games more than once, or been accused of aggravated felony assault? Did not think so.

How many times has Markieff had multiple 40 point games in a season. Oh yeah, none. Gallinari is only about one year older than Markieff so age is not a factor. And D'antoni called Gallinari the best shooter he has ever seen. [D'Antoni wasn't joking, however, when he addressed Danilo Gallinari's potential. The Knicks coach said of the second-year forward: "He's the best shooter I've ever seen."] http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/coach-mike-antoni-danilo-gallinari-knicks-shooting-star-article-1.408009

And one more thing, Ryan McDonough and Jeff Hornacek STILL have not contacted Markieff at all. It has been three weeks since the trade. Do you actually think a GM and coach would not call a player once in three weeks after they trade his brother if they wanted to build around him? Hard to imagine that. This article was just posted this morning: http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2015/7/22/9013453/phoenix-suns-coach-gm-still-have-not-talked-to-embattled-markieff
I think Markieff will absolutely get traded. No way do I see him on the team next year. I would much rather have Teletovich start anyway and have a stretch four out there on the court with Chandler.

[WeekapaugGroove]

I get why people think and want keif traded but I certainly don't think it's all that likely for 2 reasons. 1 is I would assume they would want a pf in return with equal or greater value and there just aren't that many logical available targets. 2 is the legal issue, until that's cleared up his value is really in limbo.

The fact they haven't talked to him is a little concerning. But that might be just a little tough love. Might be the suns say hey dude were done coddling you, it's time for you to act like a professional and come ready to fulfill your contact.

I feel like it's most likely he's here to start the season and maybe dealt at the deadline or next summer.

[letsgosuns]

I get why people think and want keif traded but I certainly don't think it's all that likely for 2 reasons. 1 is I would assume they would want a pf in return with equal or greater value and there just aren't that many logical available targets. 2 is the legal issue, until that's cleared up his value is really in limbo.

The fact they haven't talked to him is a little concerning. But that might be just a little tough love. Might be the suns say hey dude were done coddling you, it's time for you to act like a professional and come ready to fulfill your contact.

I feel like it's most likely he's here to start the season and maybe dealt at the deadline or next summer.

What would you consider a return of equal or greater value? Because I would trade him for first round picks just so the Suns can get out of paying him for the next four seasons and not have his negative attitude around anymore. And first round picks are always very attractive in future trades. The Suns traded Marcus for a 2020 second round pick so they are not afraid of doing addition by subtraction and trading players for very little in return. Trading Markieff for picks actually opens up playing time for Warren, Goodwin, and Booker because Tucker can slide over to power forward or even Warren if the Suns are playing a smaller team. That allows for more of the Suns perimeter players to be on the court at the same time. They could play four perimeter scorers with Chandler or Len out there.

[Walt_Uoob]

Hypothetical rosterbating scenario while I should be doing real work: Knicks are better this year but still not a playoff team. Melo is not happy with the rebuild and demands a trade. Realizing they'll have more leverage next summer when multiple teams will be able to absorb his salary, the team refuses to deal him until next summer and tries to start a bidding war then. Many teams will want him but he still has veto power over any trade, so it will have to be a team that can make an attractive offer to the Knicks without gutting their roster. Assume Melo has a mostly healthy year and is in the top 10 scorers in the league.

What does it take for the Suns to get him? Kieff plus an assortment of picks might do it in a scenario like that. 2016/17 lineup of Bledsoe-Knight-Warren-Melo-Chandler with Booker-Tucker-Len-Weems-Goodwin off the bench.

What team -- that Melo would be willing to go to -- could offer something better than the package we could put together? Boston has lots of assets but might not be an attractive destination for him and a NYK-BOS trade might be unlikely. Houston could probably find a way to get into the conversation. Miami could maybe just swap Bosh for Melo and then everyone saves face. Utah could make some sense but I doubt Melo would go there.

[Qwigglez]

I know it's a fantasy world, but if we could get Love for Kieff/Tucker/multiple picks I would do it. With Chandler at center, this would be our best frontcourt ever. Nash would come out of retirement for that frontcourt.
Bledsoe/Knight/Warren/Love/Chandler
Price/Booker/Weems/Mirza/Len
Alright enough beating a dead horse, lol.

[Saberestar]

I know it's a fantasy world, but if we could get Love for Kieff/Tucker/multiple picks I would do it. With Chandler at center, this would be our best frontcourt ever. Nash would come out of retirement for that frontcourt.
Bledsoe/Knight/Warren/Love/Chandler
Price/Booker/Weems/Mirza/Len
Alright enough beating a dead horse, lol.

Yes...they are not trading Love for depth.

[Qwigglez]

I know it's a fantasy world, but if we could get Love for Kieff/Tucker/multiple picks I would do it. With Chandler at center, this would be our best frontcourt ever. Nash would come out of retirement for that frontcourt.
Bledsoe/Knight/Warren/Love/Chandler
Price/Booker/Weems/Mirza/Len
Alright enough beating a dead horse, lol.

Yes...they are not trading Love for depth.

Yup. No reason for them too. Just wanted to say, plug Love in and our roster looks beautiful. Might have to give up Len or Bledsoe to get some kind of deal done.

[WeekapaugGroove]

I think love signed his 5 year deal so he can't be traded until December at the earliest.

[WeekapaugGroove]

I get why people think and want keif traded but I certainly don't think it's all that likely for 2 reasons. 1 is I would assume they would want a pf in return with equal or greater value and there just aren't that many logical available targets. 2 is the legal issue, until that's cleared up his value is really in limbo.

The fact they haven't talked to him is a little concerning. But that might be just a little tough love. Might be the suns say hey dude were done coddling you, it's time for you to act like a professional and come ready to fulfill your contact.

I feel like it's most likely he's here to start the season and maybe dealt at the deadline or next summer.

What would you consider a return of equal or greater value? Because I would trade him for first round picks just so the Suns can get out of paying him for the next four seasons and not have his negative attitude around anymore. And first round picks are always very attractive in future trades. The Suns traded Marcus for a 2020 second round pick so they are not afraid of doing addition by subtraction and trading players for very little in return. Trading Markieff for picks actually opens up playing time for Warren, Goodwin, and Booker because Tucker can slide over to power forward or even Warren if the Suns are playing a smaller team. That allows for more of the Suns perimeter players to be on the court at the same time. They could play four perimeter scorers with Chandler or Len out there.

it would depend where that pick was projected to be. I wouldn't give him away for a late 1st next year since it's supposed to be a terrible draft class.

Now if it was a borderline lotto pick then maybe. But even that's a tough scenario. You'd have to find a team with cap room to absorb his contract or an expiring coming back. Off the tip of my head I can't think of any teams that make sense.

[RaisingArizona]

Just, SMH at letsgo. I'm starting to think Kieff kicked your ass