Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 1

[Damkac]

If Len and Noel would be free agents last year they would get big contracts. Everyone was overpaying centers then. Now it looks like everybody is afraid to give any money to centers.
I almost feel sorry for them, would be crazy rich if only become FA a year earlier

[Qwigglez]

If Len and Noel would be free agents last year they would get big contracts. Everyone was overpaying centers then. Now it looks like everybody is afraid to give any money to centers.
I almost feel sorry for them, would be crazy rich if only become FA a year earlier

Still crazy rich.

[AtheJ415]

Any updates on Len? Did he pass the deadline without signing the QO?

At this point I will be surprised if PHX has anything but the QO on the table. They won't want to wrap up long-term salary and flexibility next summer if they don't want to. The other option is an upside contract that guarantees him his years and time to develop while still giving upside to PHX. Something like $21/3 He gets a raise, gets to stay in PHX, but PHX gets major value and a very trade-able/ usable asset down the line. If Len keeps his growth up from 2 years back, that would be a major win for PHX, if not, the outstanding balance on the contract would be movable. Len would be smart to take it if offered. Next summer looks like an FA $ wasteland. All that said, I think PHX may be pushing Len to take the QO and look to next summer, so that they keep financial flexibility.

I think there's a 3rd option here, and the one that I would try to follow. Give Len a deal of something like 3 years/$24 mil, with a team option in year 2 and a mutual option in year 3. Also guarantee him a starting spot in year 1 for at least the first half of the season, barring injuries (verbally, b/c you can't have that language in NBA deals). This gives him some financial security, but more importantly, he gets the option to prove his value as a viable starter in this league. Phoenix can cut ties if they don't see that in the offseason, and he can pick somewhere with more opportunity. If he performs well, Phoenix gets him at a discount for year 2, and year 3 both sides have to agree.

[Frank Lee]

I wonder if the FO and Watson intend to ease Chriss and Bender into some C minutes. I would imagine we are going to play Williams 20 minutes a night.... and Chandler at least the same.

With Len, aren't we really talking about a back up who has used up his 'prospect' value? There is no need to do anything, IMO. May be the minutes are better spent on other guys.

[BobbieL]

Any updates on Len? Did he pass the deadline without signing the QO?

At this point I will be surprised if PHX has anything but the QO on the table. They won't want to wrap up long-term salary and flexibility next summer if they don't want to. The other option is an upside contract that guarantees him his years and time to develop while still giving upside to PHX. Something like $21/3 He gets a raise, gets to stay in PHX, but PHX gets major value and a very trade-able/ usable asset down the line. If Len keeps his growth up from 2 years back, that would be a major win for PHX, if not, the outstanding balance on the contract would be movable. Len would be smart to take it if offered. Next summer looks like an FA $ wasteland. All that said, I think PHX may be pushing Len to take the QO and look to next summer, so that they keep financial flexibility.

I think there's a 3rd option here, and the one that I would try to follow. Give Len a deal of something like 3 years/$24 mil, with a team option in year 2 and a mutual option in year 3. Also guarantee him a starting spot in year 1 for at least the first half of the season, barring injuries (verbally, b/c you can't have that language in NBA deals). This gives him some financial security, but more importantly, he gets the option to prove his value as a viable starter in this league. Phoenix can cut ties if they don't see that in the offseason, and he can pick somewhere with more opportunity. If he performs well, Phoenix gets him at a discount for year 2, and year 3 both sides have to agree.

I can see something like 6m in year 1; 8m in year 2 and if year 3 is picked up, 10m or a 1m buyout - that's $15m guaranteed for Len.

Going to be hard pressed to make that much money plus it really gives him two years to prove himself. And if year 3 is mutual well he can opt out

[BobbieL]

Not sure how reliable this guy is but if the Suns really want to tank for 2017/2018 and don't think Bledsoe is the long term answer - here you go> Isiah and Shumpert for Bledsoe. I threw out Frye and Thomas but Shumpert works too instead of Frye

As an aside - if the Cavs were offering their first round pick - Shumpert would be a good asset for the pick. But since they aren't, Bledsoe probably helps them this year instead of Thomas. Suns can have Thomas recover - but in the meantime, tank for top 3 is on

Read on Twitter

[Walt_Uoob]

Not sure how reliable this guy is but if the Suns really want to tank for 2017/2018 and don't think Bledsoe is the long term answer - here you go> Isiah and Shumpert for Bledsoe. I threw out Frye and Thomas but Shumpert works too instead of Frye

As an aside - if the Cavs were offering their first round pick - Shumpert would be a good asset for the pick. But since they aren't, Bledsoe probably helps them this year instead of Thomas. Suns can have Thomas recover - but in the meantime, tank for top 3 is on

Read on Twitter

Bledsoe for Shumpert and an injured expiring IT seems pointless to me though. Surely if all we're trying to do is tank we can get an actual asset of some sort for Bledsoe.

[BobbieL]

Not sure how reliable this guy is but if the Suns really want to tank for 2017/2018 and don't think Bledsoe is the long term answer - here you go> Isiah and Shumpert for Bledsoe. I threw out Frye and Thomas but Shumpert works too instead of Frye

As an aside - if the Cavs were offering their first round pick - Shumpert would be a good asset for the pick. But since they aren't, Bledsoe probably helps them this year instead of Thomas. Suns can have Thomas recover - but in the meantime, tank for top 3 is on

Read on Twitter

Bledsoe for Shumpert and an injured expiring IT seems pointless to me though. Surely if all we're trying to do is tank we can get an actual asset of some sort for Bledsoe.

Probably would have to waive IT; and hope Shumpert opts out. Probably a reach - and you are right, Bledsoe can probably get a better asset

[LukasBMW]

I'd bet GM Lebron is telling the Cavs that unless IT is healthy.... NO DEAL.

That Brooklyn pick could be #1 overall in a loaded draft. And Crowder is no slouch. But IT was the selling point to Lebron to minimize the drop off at PG. Hell, in many ways, it could have been a lateral move.

Thing is, will Dan Gilbert really cave in and give up that GOLDEN Brooklyn pick in exchange for a lesser pick from Miami or Phoenix and hope that Bledsoe or Dragic (both of which have had injury problems too) is the answer? (There are no other options!!)

If I'm Dan Gilbert, I roll the dice on IT staying healthy and risk losing Lebron next year just to get that Brooklyn pick.

If things are bad midseason, then I trade Lebron and Love and IT to the highest bidder at the deadline for more picks. Sure it sells out Lebron, but F-it. Lebron sold him out once. Business is business.

[LukasBMW]

Boston could have:

-Drafted Fultz (the closest "sure thing" in the draft)
-Kept IT
-Signed Hawayrd
-Traded the next years Brooklyn pick for Butler

IT/Fultz
Hayward/Bradley
Butler/Brown
Morris
Horford

A little thin in the front court, but the perfect blend of "win now" players (4 potential all stars in the starting 5) and two young prospects. If money was a concern, they could even let IT walk at the end of the year if Fultz looked like the real deal.

Ainge really mucked up a great situation.

[edurham88]

Boston could have:

-Drafted Fultz (the closest "sure thing" in the draft)
-Kept IT
-Signed Hawayrd
-Traded the next years Brooklyn pick for Butler

IT/Fultz
Hayward/Bradley
Butler/Brown
Morris
Horford

A little thin in the front court, but the perfect blend of "win now" players (4 potential all stars in the starting 5) and two young prospects. If money was a concern, they could even let IT walk at the end of the year if Fultz looked like the real deal.

Ainge really mucked up a great situation.

Although I'm guessing the Bulls wanted players that could play this year. Apparently they were big fans of Markkanen, which is part of the reason they took that trade package. And I doubt they would have waited for free agency to trade Butler after the Celtics signed Hayward.

Also, Bradley was traded for Morris, so they couldn't both be on that team.

[AtheJ415]

Getting Isaiah has 0 value to us. He is an impending FA, and we have the cap space to sign him so it's not like his bird rights hold value to us. Taking on a bad contract in Shumpert plus getting someone who is valueless for Bledsoe (to this team anyways) makes 0 sense.

[bwgood77]

If Len and Noel would be free agents last year they would get big contracts. Everyone was overpaying centers then. Now it looks like everybody is afraid to give any money to centers.
I almost feel sorry for them, would be crazy rich if only become FA a year earlier

I know, and Steven Adams if VERY lucky they gave him like a 4 year, $100 million extension last year. Had they waited until he was a RFA this summer, he probably gets quite a bit less.

[bwgood77]

At this point I will be surprised if PHX has anything but the QO on the table. They won't want to wrap up long-term salary and flexibility next summer if they don't want to. The other option is an upside contract that guarantees him his years and time to develop while still giving upside to PHX. Something like $21/3 He gets a raise, gets to stay in PHX, but PHX gets major value and a very trade-able/ usable asset down the line. If Len keeps his growth up from 2 years back, that would be a major win for PHX, if not, the outstanding balance on the contract would be movable. Len would be smart to take it if offered. Next summer looks like an FA $ wasteland. All that said, I think PHX may be pushing Len to take the QO and look to next summer, so that they keep financial flexibility.

I think there's a 3rd option here, and the one that I would try to follow. Give Len a deal of something like 3 years/$24 mil, with a team option in year 2 and a mutual option in year 3. Also guarantee him a starting spot in year 1 for at least the first half of the season, barring injuries (verbally, b/c you can't have that language in NBA deals). This gives him some financial security, but more importantly, he gets the option to prove his value as a viable starter in this league. Phoenix can cut ties if they don't see that in the offseason, and he can pick somewhere with more opportunity. If he performs well, Phoenix gets him at a discount for year 2, and year 3 both sides have to agree.

I can see something like 6m in year 1; 8m in year 2 and if year 3 is picked up, 10m or a 1m buyout - that's $15m guaranteed for Len.

Going to be hard pressed to make that much money plus it really gives him two years to prove himself. And if year 3 is mutual well he can opt out

How do you see that? I thought max raises were like 7 or 7.5%? I'd probably do 2 year deal with team option in year 2..$7 million a year or something. Gives us insurance if we trade Tyson and don't draft a C next summer. If you can do that mutual option thing, that's fine too.

[BobbieL]

I think there's a 3rd option here, and the one that I would try to follow. Give Len a deal of something like 3 years/$24 mil, with a team option in year 2 and a mutual option in year 3. Also guarantee him a starting spot in year 1 for at least the first half of the season, barring injuries (verbally, b/c you can't have that language in NBA deals). This gives him some financial security, but more importantly, he gets the option to prove his value as a viable starter in this league. Phoenix can cut ties if they don't see that in the offseason, and he can pick somewhere with more opportunity. If he performs well, Phoenix gets him at a discount for year 2, and year 3 both sides have to agree.

I can see something like 6m in year 1; 8m in year 2 and if year 3 is picked up, 10m or a 1m buyout - that's $15m guaranteed for Len.

Going to be hard pressed to make that much money plus it really gives him two years to prove himself. And if year 3 is mutual well he can opt out

How do you see that? I thought max raises were like 7 or 7.5%? I'd probably do 2 year deal with team option in year 2..$7 million a year or something. Gives us insurance if we trade Tyson and don't draft a C next summer. If you can do that mutual option thing, that's fine too.

Oh good point - forgot about the cap restrictions on raises. So keep it with the CBA approved ranges. Thanks for clarification

My guess is Len will take the one year QO - 4.1m and bet on himself

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

I can see something like 6m in year 1; 8m in year 2 and if year 3 is picked up, 10m or a 1m buyout - that's $15m guaranteed for Len.

Going to be hard pressed to make that much money plus it really gives him two years to prove himself. And if year 3 is mutual well he can opt out

How do you see that? I thought max raises were like 7 or 7.5%? I'd probably do 2 year deal with team option in year 2..$7 million a year or something. Gives us insurance if we trade Tyson and don't draft a C next summer. If you can do that mutual option thing, that's fine too.

Oh good point - forgot about the cap restrictions on raises. So keep it with the CBA approved ranges. Thanks for clarification

My guess is Len will take the one year QO - 4.1m and bet on himself

I don't think Len wants to be here. I think he wants a shot with another team. I think the FO knows this but has no incentive to simply let him go.

[BobbieL]

How do you see that? I thought max raises were like 7 or 7.5%? I'd probably do 2 year deal with team option in year 2..$7 million a year or something. Gives us insurance if we trade Tyson and don't draft a C next summer. If you can do that mutual option thing, that's fine too.

Oh good point - forgot about the cap restrictions on raises. So keep it with the CBA approved ranges. Thanks for clarification

My guess is Len will take the one year QO - 4.1m and bet on himself

I don't think Len wants to be here. I think he wants a shot with another team. I think the FO knows this but has no incentive to simply let him go.

He is worth 4.1m - at worst - he helps the team meet the salary cap floor. Plus one more year, might have the light bulb go off and he stops bringing the ball down to his feet or trying to be Hakeem in the low post with his moves.

[bwgood77]

How do you see that? I thought max raises were like 7 or 7.5%? I'd probably do 2 year deal with team option in year 2..$7 million a year or something. Gives us insurance if we trade Tyson and don't draft a C next summer. If you can do that mutual option thing, that's fine too.

Oh good point - forgot about the cap restrictions on raises. So keep it with the CBA approved ranges. Thanks for clarification

My guess is Len will take the one year QO - 4.1m and bet on himself

I don't think Len wants to be here. I think he wants a shot with another team. I think the FO knows this but has no incentive to simply let him go.

Well I'm sure he wants to get a contract, regardless of team. But it doesn't really matter what he wants if no one gives him an offer. I don't see anyone giving him an offer. Few teams have cap space and none really need a C I don't think.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Oh good point - forgot about the cap restrictions on raises. So keep it with the CBA approved ranges. Thanks for clarification

My guess is Len will take the one year QO - 4.1m and bet on himself

I don't think Len wants to be here. I think he wants a shot with another team. I think the FO knows this but has no incentive to simply let him go.

Well I'm sure he wants to get a contract, regardless of team. But it doesn't really matter what he wants if no one gives him an offer. I don't see anyone giving him an offer. Few teams have cap space and none really need a C I don't think.

I don't see Len not taking the QO. I also don't see him being ahead of Chandler or Williams in the rotation. I could see us withdrawing the QO, but I expect Ryan to hold out.

[bwgood77]

I don't think Len wants to be here. I think he wants a shot with another team. I think the FO knows this but has no incentive to simply let him go.

Well I'm sure he wants to get a contract, regardless of team. But it doesn't really matter what he wants if no one gives him an offer. I don't see anyone giving him an offer. Few teams have cap space and none really need a C I don't think.

I don't see Len not taking the QO. I also don't see him being ahead of Chandler or Williams in the rotation. I could see us withdrawing the QO, but I expect Ryan to hold out.

I think it's well past the deadline to where we could have withdrawn it.