Deandre Ayton news and discussion

[SunsRback4Good]

I can't imagine either, and I'm a bit older than 30. Good for Ayton though. Sounds like he has his priorities straight. I'm glad he's not out on the party circuit and stuff.

I was just joking with Qwigglez the other day how insane life would be if we had kids. We both have dogs that we forget to feed randomly lol
Looking back, I was extremely immature when I was 22. Got arrested and spent a night in jail in Mexico for something silly

Ay! I told ya that in confidence. Don't be telling people that I forget to feed my dogs.

When you said that I thought of this family guy clip.

Watch on YouTube

[Maze]

So, I think I realized that I've been comparing Ayton the wrong way. I think that I've been trying to see him as a true 5 man like David Robinson, but I think that a better comparison is a young Kevin Garnett. Check this clip here from Garnett's second season in the league and look at the types of shots he takes and the way he gets his buckets, it's VERY similar to Ayton including some soft finishes inside that don't come off (I like this clip especially because it shows the misses as well as the makes, and there's some EJ and Charles sightings in it as well)

Watch on YouTube

When you look at Garnett's stats for his first few seasons in the league, they are also similar to Ayton.
KG
Year 1: 10ppg, 6rpg, 1.6bpg
Year 2: 17ppg, 8rpg, 2bpg
Year 3: 17.5, 9.6, 1.8

Ayton
Year 1: 16.3ppg, 10 rpg, .9bpg
Year 2: 18.2ppg, 11.5rpg, 1.5bpg
Year 3: 14.4ppg, 11.2rpg, 1.1bpg

Not THAT much different, with Garnett the better rim protector and Ayton the better rebounder. But I like the comparison because Garnett was asked to defend the perimeter a lot as a 6'11'' guy, much like Ayton, and while Garnett was more athletic overall, I think that they are put in some similar situations.

KGs numbers from his time in Minnesota were 20ppg, 11rpg and 1.6bpg which I think is a pretty reasonable expectation for Ayton. And if Ayton continues progressing on the defensive end the way he has, then I think the comparison becomes even stronger.

I am old enough to remember KG's first years in the league and I can tell you that NO WAY he was similar to Ayton.

Young Antetokoumpo is the player that reminds me of KG on those years. Both played more as an SF than PF/C in their early years and their motors and energy were crazy. I mean...CRAZY. Where do you see that energy and passion in Ayton?

KG handled the ball and played from the outside to the inside a lot of times, his handles were good for his size (like Anteto). Ayton never does that.

KG was a perimeter player with tremendous length and height. On that era he did not shoot 3s, but he was money in transition and going to the rim.

With more weight and years he played more as a traditional PF.

Yeah KG's one of the most passionate/fiercest competitors this league has ever seen.At times, it seems like basketball's mostly uniform for Ayton.He's playing it by default because he's tall.It's just a job.Maybe even a chore.His aloofness frustrates me almost as much as Brandon Knight.

[Revived]

Read on Twitter

He’s had a rough stretch. The giving up 72% at the rim is the worst part (he looked better in the 2nd Minny game which should hopefully improve this).

Because we have no adequate backup/replacement on the roster, we’re gonna need him to be much better imo. Especially as playoffs come around.

[Bogyo]

^^^^ The ususal Ayton stuff. It'll be like this until the end of his career. I'm pretty sure he'll get his head out of his butt for a 5 game strech sooner or later and give us the 20-15 with purposeful, winning plays like he did for five games earlier in the season - after there was a whole lot of b1tching abouth his p*ssy play around the begining of the season by a lot of us. Then he will dissapear for a month and a half. Spit, rinse, repeat on and on and on. Thing is - I just stopped caring about him, not even feel like about posting about him. Even though the Garnett comparison made me chuckle and cry a bit at the same time, I refrained from shtting all over on that, I'm a good boy like that.

Also, don't really care about the next 5 fluff job post with excues for SheAndre that will be made by 2-3 usual suspects that we know by heart now (mr global mod, tpdario). Yawn.

[Mulhollanddrive]

He reminds me of the top 5 pick big that never meets expectation but once they mature learns how to impact the game:

Chandler, Bogut, Aldridge, Horford, Favors, Valanciunus, Kanter.

$18m for that type of skillset is still a genuine piece, we just need to recalibrate expectation.

This also relies on his fumbling that's suddenly appeared getting fixed as it's turning into 2-3 turnovers per game.

[Bogyo]

He reminds me of the top 5 pick big that never meets expectation but once they mature learns how to impact the game:

Chandler, Bogut, Aldridge, Horford, Favors, Valanciunus, Kanter.

$18m for that type of skillset is still a genuine piece, we just need to recalibrate expectation.

This also relies on his fumbling that's suddenly appeared getting fixed as it's turning into 2-3 turnovers per game.

Yeah, more like this. No KG, Ewing, Duncan or any other greats. Problem is - even these are in serious jeopardy if he gets his second contract and decides he is satisfied with how he is set for life with a +100million usd lifetime earning.

[Calvin Klein]

He reminds me of the top 5 pick big that never meets expectation but once they mature learns how to impact the game:

Chandler, Bogut, Aldridge, Horford, Favors, Valanciunus, Kanter.

$18m for that type of skillset is still a genuine piece, we just need to recalibrate expectation.

This also relies on his fumbling that's suddenly appeared getting fixed as it's turning into 2-3 turnovers per game.

Horford is a weird comaprison. Multiple time all star and a super underrated player even now.

[bwgood77]

Yeah, those are better comparisons. Though I never had any Embiid, Robinson, Hakeem, Shaq or whatever comparisons. Thought those were ridiculous after watching him at UA.

However, I still don't think he's intentionally not trying like some think but that he just goes through stretches where he overthinks things and it slows down his instincts...that's happened since AZ. I think it happens a lot more this year because he keeps hearing more from CP3 giving him pause to think about things. Ultimately what he his hearing might serve him well but he needs to not overthink things at times and just get to playing instinctual more often...more freely. When he does that...and stops thinking he looks loads better. CP3 is so methodical though it really slows things down, and I think the slower place has had impact on his instincts too...and did with others for the first 15-20 or so games when we were like 8-8 and 11-9.

[Bogyo]

He reminds me of the top 5 pick big that never meets expectation but once they mature learns how to impact the game:

Chandler, Bogut, Aldridge, Horford, Favors, Valanciunus, Kanter.

$18m for that type of skillset is still a genuine piece, we just need to recalibrate expectation.

This also relies on his fumbling that's suddenly appeared getting fixed as it's turning into 2-3 turnovers per game.

Horford is a weird comaprison. Multiple time all star and a super underrated player even now.

Well, yes and no... I think Ayton could have his career easy - if he cared and tried and had his mind on basketball, etc... Heck he could easily be better (more established and decorated) when all things are said and done, he is more athletically gifted than Al ever was.

[bwgood77]

Ayton has much better offensive skillset than DAJ and Capela. Let's see after being asked to focus on defense if they focus on improving his offense next season. It was worrisome when he said he doesn't care about offense. I don't want a C that scores 3-4ppg like those in the past.

I don't watch them much. Do they do those little money hook shots? Sometimes after backing down opposing big? Or the short fadeaway? It's funny that a lot of people say he plays more like Aldridge on offense, but others say he only plays like Capela or DAJ.

Anyway, he's still going to progress in all areas. By far the best C at his age and 3rd best under 25, and that's if you include Bam and Sabonis as Cs.

He already has more gravity than either of those guys though so for whatever reason teams view him as more of an offensive threat down low.

I don't watch them either, but doubt they had a stretch in their careers shooting 5/7 from 3 like Ayton did in the bubble. Or a fadeaway, which he featured back to his rookie year. Or great passes to cutting wings like those to Mikal I posted in his thread. Now it's up to DA and the team to build on those skills in the future.

'
He's a big part of our 27-13 record, despite still developing at his young age. I wouldn't make a change to the team at this point and potentially screw it up, outside of adding a nice backup big if we can.

I do think he will improve next year too, maybe quite a bit, after finally playing with the same PG for two years and having an offseason to work with people, etc. Also, in his next contract, if people are worried about his effort, they can build in incentives, like Capela for example has incentives and $500K extra per year if he can maintain a 30% rebound rate, which he has done, or 65% free throw %, which he hasn't.

They could do it for rebounding, scoring (or efficiency), making an all NBA team and/or all star team, etc.

[Slim Charless]

I don't watch them much. Do they do those little money hook shots? Sometimes after backing down opposing big? Or the short fadeaway? It's funny that a lot of people say he plays more like Aldridge on offense, but others say he only plays like Capela or DAJ.

Anyway, he's still going to progress in all areas. By far the best C at his age and 3rd best under 25, and that's if you include Bam and Sabonis as Cs.

He already has more gravity than either of those guys though so for whatever reason teams view him as more of an offensive threat down low.

I don't watch them either, but doubt they had a stretch in their careers shooting 5/7 from 3 like Ayton did in the bubble. Or a fadeaway, which he featured back to his rookie year. Or great passes to cutting wings like those to Mikal I posted in his thread. Now it's up to DA and the team to build on those skills in the future.

'
He's a big part of our 27-13 record, despite still developing at his young age. I wouldn't make a change to the team at this point and potentially screw it up, outside of adding a nice backup big if we can.

I do think he will improve next year too, maybe quite a bit, after finally playing with the same PG for two years and having an offseason to work with people, etc. Also, in his next contract, if people are worried about his effort, they can build in incentives, like Capela for example has incentives and $500K extra per year if he can maintain a 30% rebound rate, which he has done, or 65% free throw %, which he hasn't.

They could do it for rebounding, scoring (or efficiency), making an all NBA team and/or all star team, etc.

I mentioned this in another thread, but I wonder about the frameworks of a Vuc-Ayton deal would entail? Orlando is trash right now and Vuc is 30 so he won't be around for when they turn it around, meanwhile he would fit nicely over here our guys. Perfect age to pair with CP3 and Book as our 2nd option on offense. Maybe the Magic would bite on an Ayton/Cam combo...?

[bwgood77]

I don't watch them either, but doubt they had a stretch in their careers shooting 5/7 from 3 like Ayton did in the bubble. Or a fadeaway, which he featured back to his rookie year. Or great passes to cutting wings like those to Mikal I posted in his thread. Now it's up to DA and the team to build on those skills in the future.

'
He's a big part of our 27-13 record, despite still developing at his young age. I wouldn't make a change to the team at this point and potentially screw it up, outside of adding a nice backup big if we can.

I do think he will improve next year too, maybe quite a bit, after finally playing with the same PG for two years and having an offseason to work with people, etc. Also, in his next contract, if people are worried about his effort, they can build in incentives, like Capela for example has incentives and $500K extra per year if he can maintain a 30% rebound rate, which he has done, or 65% free throw %, which he hasn't.

They could do it for rebounding, scoring (or efficiency), making an all NBA team and/or all star team, etc.

I mentioned this in another thread, but I wonder about the frameworks of a Vuc-Ayton deal would entail? Orlando is trash right now and Vuc is 30 so he won't be around for when they turn it around, meanwhile he would fit nicely over here our guys. Perfect age to pair with CP3 and Book as our 2nd option on offense. Maybe the Magic would bite on an Ayton/Cam combo...?

I responded to that. I think Orlando would do the trade straight up. Vucevic is great offensively and is a great passer, 3 pt shooter and rebounder. I think we'd probably be worse defensively, or at least he couldn't switch. Feels like Ayton and Cam is too much though.

[Slim Charless]

'
He's a big part of our 27-13 record, despite still developing at his young age. I wouldn't make a change to the team at this point and potentially screw it up, outside of adding a nice backup big if we can.

I do think he will improve next year too, maybe quite a bit, after finally playing with the same PG for two years and having an offseason to work with people, etc. Also, in his next contract, if people are worried about his effort, they can build in incentives, like Capela for example has incentives and $500K extra per year if he can maintain a 30% rebound rate, which he has done, or 65% free throw %, which he hasn't.

They could do it for rebounding, scoring (or efficiency), making an all NBA team and/or all star team, etc.

I mentioned this in another thread, but I wonder about the frameworks of a Vuc-Ayton deal would entail? Orlando is trash right now and Vuc is 30 so he won't be around for when they turn it around, meanwhile he would fit nicely over here our guys. Perfect age to pair with CP3 and Book as our 2nd option on offense. Maybe the Magic would bite on an Ayton/Cam combo...?

I responded to that. I think Orlando would do the trade straight up. Vucevic is great offensively and is a great passer, 3 pt shooter and rebounder. I think we'd probably be worse defensively, or at least he couldn't switch. Feels like Ayton and Cam is too much though.

Ahh didn't see ur response. I agree that we would probably lose the switching that DA provides, but we would be staying even with the rebounding while gaining a significant amount of scoring. When DA gets his extension next year he'll be making the max or near enough to it. If we had a younger version of Paul, I'd be down to keep Ayton and let him Book, and CP3 just grow together but he's old and who knows how many years he has left. The defensive drop would be the big question but with the way DA has played these past cpl weeks, the drop off can't be too much.

Ultimately though I don't think JJ and Monty would make such a huge trade at this point in the season. It would have to be a an off-season trade if it happened at all.

[bwgood77]

I mentioned this in another thread, but I wonder about the frameworks of a Vuc-Ayton deal would entail? Orlando is trash right now and Vuc is 30 so he won't be around for when they turn it around, meanwhile he would fit nicely over here our guys. Perfect age to pair with CP3 and Book as our 2nd option on offense. Maybe the Magic would bite on an Ayton/Cam combo...?

I responded to that. I think Orlando would do the trade straight up. Vucevic is great offensively and is a great passer, 3 pt shooter and rebounder. I think we'd probably be worse defensively, or at least he couldn't switch. Feels like Ayton and Cam is too much though.

Ahh didn't see ur response. I agree that we would probably lose the switching that DA provides, but we would be staying even with the rebounding while gaining a significant amount of scoring. When DA gets his extension next year he'll be making the max or near enough to it. If we had a younger version of Paul, I'd be down to keep Ayton and let him Book, and CP3 just grow together but he's old and who knows how many years he has left. The defensive drop would be the big question but with the way DA has played these past cpl weeks, the drop off can't be too much.

Ultimately though I don't think JJ and Monty would make such a huge trade at this point in the season. It would have to be a an off-season trade if it happened at all.

Well, I don't know if you gain much in scoring, even though Vucevic scores a lot as the #1 option in Orlando. I don't think he'd be the #1 option. Plus, Ayton's points are on high efficiency (62.7% vs Vuc's 56.9%, which is near his career best...he is usually much worse).

In his 3rd year, Vuc's #s were 14/11 on 53.6% TS%. And he's 30.

I think he's underrated, especially among Magic fans who, for the most part, only complain about him, but he is a lot older and doesn't have any upside, while Ayton has a ton being 22.

But if Vucevic scored more points, it's not like it comes out of nowhere, it's just fewer shots from someone else, on not so great efficiency. His best traits would be spreading the floor with his 3 pt shooter which he shoots very well, and his passing (just under 4 apg).

Vuc does average as many total rebounds, but Ayton is a lot better on offensive rebounds, giving us extra opportunities too.

Overall, I think it would be an ok trade for now and could potentially make us better, but I imagine next year and beyond we'd be worse. And if we had to give up Cam, I think we'd be worse this year for sure...or Crowder..we'd have to give up others to make the salaries work.

[NapoleonII]

Is there an opposite of diminishing returns?

We've got a top 5 offense BECAUSE we're asking for DA to do so little.

Monty has found a sweet spot. We hot-wired this offense with CP3 and Book, shooters, cutters, stretch 5's, and an inconsistent beast in DA.

I really don't care about DA as long as he brings it on defense, rebounds, and is ready to eat off Cp3.

[Bogyo]

Is there an opposite of diminishing returns?

We've got a top 5 offense BECAUSE we're asking for DA to do so little.

Monty has found a sweet spot. We hot-wired this offense with CP3 and Book, shooters, cutters, stretch 5's, and an inconsistent beast in DA.

I really don't care about DA as long as he brings it on defense, rebounds, and is ready to eat off Cp3.

Well - yes and no again... The gripe with the inconsistend beast is just that. If he played up to 75% of his capabilities each game, with 90% effort we'd be real contenders. So basically he should really hustle 9 games out of 10. That is all up to him, not an impssible thing to do I'd say. I'm not even asking 100% - we are humans, we have our off days, no matter what. Also asking for playing up to capabilities in 3 games out of 4. This is harder than hustle becouse there are a lot of other things involved which are not 100% determined by himself individually. Hence the lower percentage - let's try to be realistic here, he is not MJ, and noone expects him to even be an All-NBA type big by now. (sad )

The way things are right now we fringe contenders, who have a good record partially becouse our starters have been healthy pretty much all year, and our bench is deep enough to overcome the absence of the smaller injuries (or covid stuff) which happened there. If you check other (playoff) teams and some of the outside-looking-in teams health this year we've had the best luck so far, which explains some of the good record. And we re about to play the Lakers sans AD or LeBron...

If DA played with the 90% and the 75% I outlined here, we'd be real contenders in my view.
(We'd also have a better record, but it's not like I'm unhappy with our record as is, so just sayin'...)

[Slim Charless]

I responded to that. I think Orlando would do the trade straight up. Vucevic is great offensively and is a great passer, 3 pt shooter and rebounder. I think we'd probably be worse defensively, or at least he couldn't switch. Feels like Ayton and Cam is too much though.

Ahh didn't see ur response. I agree that we would probably lose the switching that DA provides, but we would be staying even with the rebounding while gaining a significant amount of scoring. When DA gets his extension next year he'll be making the max or near enough to it. If we had a younger version of Paul, I'd be down to keep Ayton and let him Book, and CP3 just grow together but he's old and who knows how many years he has left. The defensive drop would be the big question but with the way DA has played these past cpl weeks, the drop off can't be too much.

Ultimately though I don't think JJ and Monty would make such a huge trade at this point in the season. It would have to be a an off-season trade if it happened at all.

Well, I don't know if you gain much in scoring, even though Vucevic scores a lot as the #1 option in Orlando. I don't think he'd be the #1 option. Plus, Ayton's points are on high efficiency (62.7% vs Vuc's 56.9%, which is near his career best...he is usually much worse).

In his 3rd year, Vuc's #s were 14/11 on 53.6% TS%. And he's 30.

I think he's underrated, especially among Magic fans who, for the most part, only complain about him, but he is a lot older and doesn't have any upside, while Ayton has a ton being 22.

But if Vucevic scored more points, it's not like it comes out of nowhere, it's just fewer shots from someone else, on not so great efficiency. His best traits would be spreading the floor with his 3 pt shooter which he shoots very well, and his passing (just under 4 apg).

Vuc does average as many total rebounds, but Ayton is a lot better on offensive rebounds, giving us extra opportunities too.

Overall, I think it would be an ok trade for now and could potentially make us better, but I imagine next year and beyond we'd be worse. And if we had to give up Cam, I think we'd be worse this year for sure...or Crowder..we'd have to give up others to make the salaries work.

Well that would the problem. It'd be a move for right now when we have CP3 and attempting to go all in. But Vuc's game isn't really athleticism based so he wouldn't hopefully fall off that much. This wouldn't happen till the summer anyway I'd guess. Maybe DA will turn it on over the course of the rest of the season.

[RedIndian]

As critical as I am of Ayton, Vucevic does NOT improve us. Ayton's a big part of our record, so let's not assume we'll improve just by getting someone who's better on offense.

I'd make the trade for KAT - who's transcendent offensively, but not for Vuc who's hitting a career vest 57% TS. That's of no value to us, especially given how much you'd lose on D. Vucevic will be absolutely hunted by smaller guards in the playoffs.

Look, at this point, the best we can do for our roster is add Aldridge in a buyout. I don't think it makes any sense to make a major change to our roster at this stage of the season. If there is a big trade to be made, it needs to done in the offseason once we know how these guys fare in the playoffs.

If we think that there is a small window for contention this year, then it stands to reason that that small window will be open next year as well. I do not se CP3 falling off a cliff suddenly, unless he gets hurt (touch wood).

[Adrao]

If we consider Ayton a rol player in his second year (149 games in the league) we can be happy with him. He just need to be more regular but experience gives that.
Of course we have to pay him as a rol player when he renews the contract.

[Mulhollanddrive]

We're 8th in offensive rating and 17th at shots at the rim.

The team has capacity if he is able to lift us higher.