NBA PLAYOFFS: Round 2 l Game 1: (4) Phoenix Suns @ (1) Denver Nuggets l Saturday l 5:30pm l TNT

[Revived]

Man I’m watching the Warriors/Kings game, imagine if we had a C like Kevon Looney? 21 freaking rebounds in a close out game 7 and amazing defense all game long. It’s his THIRD 20 rebound game of the series.

And he’s on a $8M/yr contract. Sure he can’t score 20 pts a game maybe ever but he brings the same energy every single night and is tough as nails. No softness about him.

I remember that report about how Sarver didn’t wanna pay Ayton really and preferred having a cheap role player C like Looney instead.

We likely beat Denver in 5 with a C that can play like Looney has in this series.

Even more than the 21 rebounds he had, he drew so many loose ball fouls on the Kings too. Incredible motor and energy every minute he’s on the court.

[spanishninja]

Man I’m watching the Warriors/Kings game, imagine if we had a C like Kevon Looney? 21 freaking rebounds in a close out game 7 and amazing defense all game long. It’s his THIRD 20 rebound game of the series.

And he’s on a $8M/yr contract.

I remember that report about how Sarver didn’t wanna pay Ayton really and preferred having a cheap role player C like Looney instead.

We likely beat Denver in 5 with a C that can play like Looney has in this series.

Even more than the 21 rebounds he had, he drew so many loose ball fouls on the Kings too. Incredible motor and energy every minute he’s on the court.

thinking the same thing. looneyhas turned into their their Rodman or Ben Wallace.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM Forums mobile app

[Sunlight]

Kevon Looney has averaged 6.0 rebounds, 5.4 points and 1.7 assists in 14 games versus Domantas Sabonis in his career.

Deandre Ayton has averaged 17.1 points, 11.1 rebounds and 1.2 assists in 10 games versus Domantas Sabonis in his career.

[kennydorglas]

Imagine having a center that can close games like this.
Not used to this at all

[Hitachi77]

So what’s more likely to explain lack of effort from Ayton, still upset he didn’t get the max contract immediately, or playing video games until 4am?

[Revived]

Kevon Looney has averaged 6.0 rebounds, 5.4 points and 1.7 assists in 14 games versus Domantas Sabonis in his career.

Deandre Ayton has averaged 17.1 points, 11.1 rebounds and 1.2 assists in 10 games versus Domantas Sabonis in his career.

Kevoon Looney averages few pts and gazillion rebounds in this years playoffs with elite defense.

Deandre Ayton averages bunch of pts (all assisted and set up), a decent rebound game every now and then along with mostly nonexistent defense in this years playoffs. Also averages about 4-5 stand and watch plays in each game.

[Sunlight]

Kevon Looney has averaged 6.0 rebounds, 5.4 points and 1.7 assists in 14 games versus Domantas Sabonis in his career.

Deandre Ayton has averaged 17.1 points, 11.1 rebounds and 1.2 assists in 10 games versus Domantas Sabonis in his career.

Kevoon Looney averages few pts and gazillion rebounds in this years playoffs with elite defense.

Deandre Ayton averages bunch of pts (all assisted and set up), a decent rebound game every now and then along with mostly nonexistent defense in this years playoffs. Also averages about 4-5 stand and watch plays in each game.

Looney plays alongside the best power forward in the league. Ayton hasn't had a power forward by his side, just small wingers throughout his career.

[spanishninja]

so now that the league has the lakers/warriors matchup they want, SUUUUUUUUURELY they will want to follow that up with Lebron v KD or Warriors vs KD right? wishful thinking for some favorable ref shenanigans?

[starbosa10]

So what’s more likely to explain lack of effort from Ayton, still upset he didn’t get the max contract immediately, or playing video games until 4am?

I think he just doesn't have the hunger and drive

Imagine how good he could be if he had Book's mindset

[KLEON]

Kevon Looney has averaged 6.0 rebounds, 5.4 points and 1.7 assists in 14 games versus Domantas Sabonis in his career.

Deandre Ayton has averaged 17.1 points, 11.1 rebounds and 1.2 assists in 10 games versus Domantas Sabonis in his career.

And?

[Ghost of Kleine]

So what’s more likely to explain lack of effort from Ayton, still upset he didn’t get the max contract immediately, or playing video games until 4am?

I think he just doesn't have the hunger and drive

Imagine how good he could be if he had Book's mindset

1- It's quite simply that he's mentally checked out from this team and ready to move on to a fresh start somewhere else. This all began right after his dominant first postseason appearance when he met Saver at the restaurant to discuss his 1st rookie extension and Saver being Saver explained how much he valued him (centers in general). This is what started killing the relationship back in 2021.


2- Then the contract negotiations wherein Ayton and his agent wanted the 5 yr max due to his less successful peers that were all securing max deals while not being as successful as Ayton was initially and in the postseason during that time. So Saver and Jones tell him no to his contract interests, and tell him to wait until a year later to reevaluate his value. During that time he quietly and professionally accepts all of their requests. First becoming a defensive anchor, then accepting a supplementary cleanup big role for the team.

3- And while doing this without being a malcontent or locker room cancer, the front office continually tries to trade him elsewhere (in 2022) rather than pay him and get a deal done.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10026732-nba-rumors-deandre-ayton-domantas-sabonis-deadline-trade-discussed-by-suns-pacers
NBA Rumors: Deandre Ayton, Domantas Sabonis Deadline Trade Discussed by Suns, Pacers
Point being, when they ask him to stop being offensively dominant back then and instead embrace being more defense anchor for the team, he does to his own detriment which lessens his perceived value as a versatile two way big. He did everything that the front office asked of him whilst not getting paid equitably to his peers, kept quiet and played professionally despite constantly being in trade rumors and jerked around in his role utilization. Along with constantly being criticized all throughout the media and by fans. Then the suns front office looks to trade him yet again in the Durant deal that couldn't happen because of the "hard capped" rule involved. Finally after two full years of sucking things up and not getting paid, constantly being thrown in trades, and not featured and being forced into a lesser role, He finally gets an opportunity to go elsewhere for a fresh start, and when another team steps up and shows legitimate interest and that they value him as a max player, the suns use his restricted free agency to keep him from leaving.

4- Finally, they keep him and still run him in a cleanup glue guy role whilst having everyone complain about him finally getting paid ONLY as an alternative to losing him for nothing because they themselves (front office) chose to not trade him back in 2021 when they decided they didn't want to pay him the 5 yr max. And go and trade his two best friends on the team in Bridges and Johnson. Booker still has Durant, and Williams has Shamet. Ayton who the fanbase rationalizes constantly ridiculing him for every issue plaguing this team has nobody left.

So this began with Saver being cheap and blatantly not valuing him. Then making him wait two years, trying to trade him repeatedly over those two yrs, and then blocking his leaving to another team just to keep him in a lesser role. And all while constantly being criticized by media and fans from his own team. Saver lit the match to the fire that has burnt these bridges between Ayton and the suns and suns fanbase. and over time it just kept burning. Now I'm not saying Ayton doesn't share some of the blame here. But overall, Saver and the suns FO bungled this up good from the jump and fed this disconnect and eventual apathy continually to this obvious end result!

The best case scenario now is to just trade Ayton and move on to other things, Both for his success as well as ours. He's simply emotionally and cognitively done with this team.

[Hitachi77]

So what’s more likely to explain lack of effort from Ayton, still upset he didn’t get the max contract immediately, or playing video games until 4am?

I think he just doesn't have the hunger and drive

Imagine how good he could be if he had Book's mindset

1- It's quite simply that he's mentally checked out from this team and ready to move on to a fresh start somewhere else. This all began right after his dominant first postseason appearance when he met Saver at the restaurant to discuss his 1st rookie extension and Saver being Saver explained how much he valued him (centers in general). This is what started killing the relationship back in 2021.


2- Then the contract negotiations wherein Ayton and his agent wanted the 5 yr max due to his less successful peers that were all securing max deals while not being as successful as Ayton was initially and in the postseason during that time. So Saver and Jones tell him no to his contract interests, and tell him to wait until a year later to reevaluate his value. During that time he quietly and professionally accepts all of their requests. First becoming a defensive anchor, then accepting a supplementary cleanup big role for the team.

3- And while doing this without being a malcontent or locker room cancer, the front office continually tries to trade him elsewhere (in 2022) rather than pay him and get a deal done.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10026732-nba-rumors-deandre-ayton-domantas-sabonis-deadline-trade-discussed-by-suns-pacers
NBA Rumors: Deandre Ayton, Domantas Sabonis Deadline Trade Discussed by Suns, Pacers
Point being, when they ask him to stop being offensively dominant back then and instead embrace being more defense anchor for the team, he does to his own detriment which lessens his perceived value as a versatile two way big. He did everything that the front office asked of him whilst not getting paid equitably to his peers, kept quiet and played professionally despite constantly being in trade rumors and jerked around in his role utilization. Along with constantly being criticized all throughout the media and by fans. Then the suns front office looks to trade him yet again in the Durant deal that couldn't happen because of the "hard capped" rule involved. Finally after two full years of sucking things up and not getting paid, constantly being thrown in trades, and not featured and being forced into a lesser role, He finally gets an opportunity to go elsewhere for a fresh start, and when another team steps up and shows legitimate interest and that they value him as a max player, the suns use his restricted free agency to keep him from leaving.

4- Finally, they keep him and still run him in a cleanup glue guy role whilst having everyone complain about him finally getting paid ONLY as an alternative to losing him for nothing because they themselves (front office) chose to not trade him back in 2021 when they decided they didn't want to pay him the 5 yr max. And go and trade his two best friends on the team in Bridges and Johnson. Booker still has Durant, and Williams has Shamet. Ayton who the fanbase rationalizes constantly ridiculing him for every issue plaguing this team has nobody left.

So this began with Saver being cheap and blatantly not valuing him. Then making him wait two years, trying to trade him repeatedly over those two yrs, and then blocking his leaving to another team just to keep him in a lesser role. And all while constantly being criticized by media and fans from his own team. Saver lit the match to the fire that has burnt these bridges between Ayton and the suns and suns fanbase. and over time it just kept burning. Now I'm not saying Ayton doesn't share some of the blame here. But overall, Saver and the suns FO bungled this up good from the jump and fed this disconnect and eventual apathy continually to this obvious end result!

The best case scenario now is to just trade Ayton and move on to other things, Both for his success as well as ours. He's simply emotionally and cognitively done with this team.

I def understand all of this, but I wish these guys would grow up and realize they have a pretty good life. Sarver is gone and you never know how many chances you will get at a title in your career. And you aren’t playing for Sarver or JJ. You are playing for your teammates, yourself, and the fans (who are the reason you can get 30M+ a year playing a sport).

[Ghost of Kleine]

Spoiler:

I think he just doesn't have the hunger and drive

Imagine how good he could be if he had Book's mindset

1- It's quite simply that he's mentally checked out from this team and ready to move on to a fresh start somewhere else. This all began right after his dominant first postseason appearance when he met Saver at the restaurant to discuss his 1st rookie extension and Saver being Saver explained how much he valued him (centers in general). This is what started killing the relationship back in 2021.


2- Then the contract negotiations wherein Ayton and his agent wanted the 5 yr max due to his less successful peers that were all securing max deals while not being as successful as Ayton was initially and in the postseason during that time. So Saver and Jones tell him no to his contract interests, and tell him to wait until a year later to reevaluate his value. During that time he quietly and professionally accepts all of their requests. First becoming a defensive anchor, then accepting a supplementary cleanup big role for the team.

3- And while doing this without being a malcontent or locker room cancer, the front office continually tries to trade him elsewhere (in 2022) rather than pay him and get a deal done.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10026732-nba-rumors-deandre-ayton-domantas-sabonis-deadline-trade-discussed-by-suns-pacers
NBA Rumors: Deandre Ayton, Domantas Sabonis Deadline Trade Discussed by Suns, Pacers

Point being, when they ask him to stop being offensively dominant back then and instead embrace being more defense anchor for the team, he does to his own detriment which lessens his perceived value as a versatile two way big. He did everything that the front office asked of him whilst not getting paid equitably to his peers, kept quiet and played professionally despite constantly being in trade rumors and jerked around in his role utilization. Along with constantly being criticized all throughout the media and by fans. Then the suns front office looks to trade him yet again in the Durant deal that couldn't happen because of the "hard capped" rule involved. Finally after two full years of sucking things up and not getting paid, constantly being thrown in trades, and not featured and being forced into a lesser role, He finally gets an opportunity to go elsewhere for a fresh start, and when another team steps up and shows legitimate interest and that they value him as a max player, the suns use his restricted free agency to keep him from leaving.

4- Finally, they keep him and still run him in a cleanup glue guy role whilst having everyone complain about him finally getting paid ONLY as an alternative to losing him for nothing because they themselves (front office) chose to not trade him back in 2021 when they decided they didn't want to pay him the 5 yr max. And go and trade his two best friends on the team in Bridges and Johnson. Booker still has Durant, and Williams has Shamet. Ayton who the fanbase rationalizes constantly ridiculing him for every issue plaguing this team has nobody left.

So this began with Saver being cheap and blatantly not valuing him. Then making him wait two years, trying to trade him repeatedly over those two yrs, and then blocking his leaving to another team just to keep him in a lesser role. And all while constantly being criticized by media and fans from his own team. Saver lit the match to the fire that has burnt these bridges between Ayton and the suns and suns fanbase. and over time it just kept burning. Now I'm not saying Ayton doesn't share some of the blame here. But overall, Saver and the suns FO bungled this up good from the jump and fed this disconnect and eventual apathy continually to this obvious end result!

The best case scenario now is to just trade Ayton and move on to other things, Both for his success as well as ours. He's simply emotionally and cognitively done with this team.

I def understand all of this, but I wish these guys would grow up and realize they have a pretty good life. Sarver is gone and you never know how many chances you will get at a title in your career. And you aren’t playing for Sarver or JJ. You are playing for your teammates, yourself, and the fans (who are the reason you can get 30M+ a year playing a sport).

Oh I do agree. The problem is that when you're so incredibly athletically gifted like Ayton and some of these other kids are, they get coddled from far to early an age and don't have to work as hard for success. Then they get drafted to the nba ( which they already are aware of) and become multi millionaires at far too early an age to have genuine shared life experiences real concerns like normal society does.

This is greatly exacerbated by their ability to get drafted after only one season of college, and they too often come into the league unprepared and still immature to the nature of true work, diligence and the determination to become better because they're immediately set for life in their late teens or early 20's. This is a huge problem honestly, but it won't be corrected because it's a player empowered league and the players union wouldn't allow it.

What needs to change is for the nba to require a full 4 yrs of college taking precedence over quick profit from the media hype machine. And they should require a certain number of hours of professional development courses from either college program coordinators for athletes. And an eventual transition to annual performance reviews in correlation to individual players salary increase which would be reduced by not reaching certain benchmark goals towards their individual advancement in their profession.

But again, it's very unlikely to happen as this monster has been untethered for too long. Just the same, I'd introduce a lower salary scale with annual promotional increases for benchmark development and improvements to incentive individual work ethic. It still is a job after all, regardless of the entertainment aspects.

[sunsbum]

Kevon Looney has averaged 6.0 rebounds, 5.4 points and 1.7 assists in 14 games versus Domantas Sabonis in his career.

Deandre Ayton has averaged 17.1 points, 11.1 rebounds and 1.2 assists in 10 games versus Domantas Sabonis in his career.

Kevoon Looney averages few pts and gazillion rebounds in this years playoffs with elite defense.

Deandre Ayton averages bunch of pts (all assisted and set up), a decent rebound game every now and then along with mostly nonexistent defense in this years playoffs. Also averages about 4-5 stand and watch plays in each game.

Looney plays alongside the best power forward in the league. Ayton hasn't had a power forward by his side, just small wingers throughout his career.

Whos the best PF in the league? Surely you arent talking about Draymond Green?

[POLI]

Man I’m watching the Warriors/Kings game, imagine if we had a C like Kevon Looney? 21 freaking rebounds in a close out game 7 and amazing defense all game long. It’s his THIRD 20 rebound game of the series.

And he’s on a $8M/yr contract. Sure he can’t score 20 pts a game maybe ever but he brings the same energy every single night and is tough as nails. No softness about him.

I remember that report about how Sarver didn’t wanna pay Ayton really and preferred having a cheap role player C like Looney instead.

We likely beat Denver in 5 with a C that can play like Looney has in this series.

Even more than the 21 rebounds he had, he drew so many loose ball fouls on the Kings too. Incredible motor and energy every minute he’s on the court.

Looney just sets screens and runs to the basket after that for the off rebounds. Then he usually plays near the rim on defence as he is much unable to defend any other kind of situation.
He cannot shoot, he is not good at passing, he is unable to dribbling, unable to do so many things.
It is a good centre for Curry, Thomson, Wiggins, Poole...

[SunsRback4Good]

Man I’m watching the Warriors/Kings game, imagine if we had a C like Kevon Looney? 21 freaking rebounds in a close out game 7 and amazing defense all game long. It’s his THIRD 20 rebound game of the series.

And he’s on a $8M/yr contract. Sure he can’t score 20 pts a game maybe ever but he brings the same energy every single night and is tough as nails. No softness about him.

I remember that report about how Sarver didn’t wanna pay Ayton really and preferred having a cheap role player C like Looney instead.

We likely beat Denver in 5 with a C that can play like Looney has in this series.

Even more than the 21 rebounds he had, he drew so many loose ball fouls on the Kings too. Incredible motor and energy every minute he’s on the court.

Looney just sets screens and runs to the basket after that for the off rebounds. Then he usually plays near the rim on defence as he is much unable to defend any other kind of situation.
He cannot shoot, he is not good at passing, he is unable to dribbling, unable to do so many things.
It is a good centre for Curry, Thomson, Wiggins, Poole...

[sunsbum]

Ayton is such a bum. I'm so sick of watching this loser. I'm not attacking his character I'm just saying he's a really bad basketball player.

[Calvin Klein]

So what’s more likely to explain lack of effort from Ayton, still upset he didn’t get the max contract immediately, or playing video games until 4am?

Have you seen the video where they ask him about his motor? He has no awareness at all. In his mind, he is doing what he is supposed to be doing.

People who think he is checked out amuse me. Does that mean he's been checked out since his rookie season? He's always been like this! He had a good run during the 21 playoffs (not the finals) but that's it.

[Revived]

Read on Twitter

Will be interesting to see the adjustments they make to this.

[flagstaff]

Man I’m watching the Warriors/Kings game, imagine if we had a C like Kevon Looney? 21 freaking rebounds in a close out game 7 and amazing defense all game long. It’s his THIRD 20 rebound game of the series.

And he’s on a $8M/yr contract. Sure he can’t score 20 pts a game maybe ever but he brings the same energy every single night and is tough as nails. No softness about him.

I remember that report about how Sarver didn’t wanna pay Ayton really and preferred having a cheap role player C like Looney instead.

We likely beat Denver in 5 with a C that can play like Looney has in this series.

Even more than the 21 rebounds he had, he drew so many loose ball fouls on the Kings too. Incredible motor and energy every minute he’s on the court.

Looney just sets screens and runs to the basket after that for the off rebounds. Then he usually plays near the rim on defence as he is much unable to defend any other kind of situation.
He cannot shoot, he is not good at passing, he is unable to dribbling, unable to do so many things.
It is a good centre for Curry, Thomson, Wiggins, Poole...

Lets play Ayton that way then..Lota money for that, but it may be the best use of him at this point.