Suns Offseason Thread 4: Where's Terrence Williams?

[letsgosuns]

Just, SMH at letsgo. I'm starting to think Kieff kicked your ass

I am not the only one who thinks of him that way. Literally every Suns fan I have spoken to in real life about him wants him off the team for anything in return. The only people I have seen who think he is good and should stay are people on this message board. Jerry Colangelo would have traded him for Papa John's Pizza coupons the day after Markieff made those angry comments about the fans. Fans I have spoken to who have followed the Suns since the 70's/80's said they have never seen players like the Morris brothers on the Suns. They are not the types of players this organization employs. They are thugs, psychos, and egomaniacs.

I hate Markieff as a player. I hate his attitude towards basketball and the way he carries himself. I knew him and his brother were trouble from the moment they had their press conference about their new contracts. During the time they were at the podium next to the Suns staff, they spent so much time staring down at their phones and acting like it was the ultimate inconvenience to be there addressing the media, even though the Suns just gave them 52 million dollars. You see Chandler staring down at his cell phone during his press conference? How about Brandon Knight? No way.

Markieff and his brother are horribly unprofessional and do not have anywhere near the talent level to be prima donnas. Maybe if they were top five players in the league you consider letting them be complete jerks slide, but they suck and I have a hard time rooting for my favorite team because they make me hate basketball. Replace Markieff with a player that will give you everything he has and not blame the fans, the refs, or whoever else when he has a bad game and I guarantee you people will forget all about Markieff.

[RunDogGun]

Wait, what the heck did I just read?

[TeamTragic]

After the off-season we have had and the projected FA next season why should we care about Kieff and/or Tucker? They are not an integral part of our future plans and that is very obvious. If we can retain Kieff great but if he is going to complain because we had to trade his brother to get a shot at an elite player then he should go play for a lottery team.

We made positive changes in the off-season and if he can't see that then trade his fragile ego to Philly. Since he loves playing on losing teams that don't want to improve their roster and compete for the play-offs. Tucker on the other hand needs to get his ass shipped to China. He spends the off-season drinking by the pool and people still want him on this team?

If you are a true SUNS fan you should never want someone like Tucker on your team. He looks more out of shape each time I see him and after his obvious low basketball IQ (see last season) we should waive him and stretch his salary, if possible. Just **** get rid of him and his lack of discipline.

[Sunsdeuce]

After the off-season we have had and the projected FA next season why should we care about Kieff and/or Tucker? They are not an integral part of our future plans and that is very obvious. If we can retain Kieff great but if he is going to complain because we had to trade his brother to get a shot at an elite player then he should go play for a lottery team.

We made positive changes in the off-season and if he can't see that then trade his fragile ego to Philly. Since he loves playing on losing teams that don't want to improve their roster and compete for the play-offs. Tucker on the other hand needs to get his ass shipped to China. He spends the off-season drinking by the pool and people still want him on this team?

If you are a true SUNS fans you should never want someone like Tucker on your team. He looks more out of shape each time I see him and after his obvious low basketball IQ (see last season) we should waive him and stretch his salary, if possible. Just **** get rid of him and his lack of discipline.

Daaaaaammn! I like how you think. Tucker should have been gone last year. He is highly overrated by some Suns fans. But hey, if a low IQ, hardworking, low skilled, d-leaguer guy is your thing, than more power to you (those of you who like him).

I'm am not a fan of keiff. But on the other hand, we have NO OTHER power forward (literally). Kinda of need him. Keiff is a less skilled clone of Rodney Rodgers. Keiff could be a great 6th man (with a good attitude) on a good team but his attitude sucks a$$ and his play is erratic far too much. If I had a choice, I would package keiff for a real power forward but there really isn't much out there at the moment. Keiff is not a team player (obviously) but we are about to see what he is all about this year. Again, not a fan of his but Suns are sorta stuck right now.

@InsiderSuns: After not speaking to Markieff Morris for 3 weeks, the Suns plan on meeting Markieff to address their expectations and future with the team.

[sunsfever68]

Just, SMH at letsgo. I'm starting to think Kieff kicked your ass

I am not the only one who thinks of him that way. Literally every Suns fan I have spoken to in real life about him wants him off the team for anything in return. The only people I have seen who think he is good and should stay are people on this message board. Jerry Colangelo would have traded him for Papa John's Pizza coupons the day after Markieff made those angry comments about the fans. Fans I have spoken to who have followed the Suns since the 70's/80's said they have never seen players like the Morris brothers on the Suns. They are not the types of players this organization employs. They are thugs, psychos, and egomaniacs.

I hate Markieff as a player. I hate his attitude towards basketball and the way he carries himself. I knew him and his brother were trouble from the moment they had their press conference about their new contracts. During the time they were at the podium next to the Suns staff, they spent so much time staring down at their phones and acting like it was the ultimate inconvenience to be there addressing the media, even though the Suns just gave them 52 million dollars. You see Chandler staring down at his cell phone during his press conference? How about Brandon Knight? No way.

Markieff and his brother are horribly unprofessional and do not have anywhere near the talent level to be prima donnas. Maybe if they were top five players in the league you consider letting them be complete jerks slide, but they suck and I have a hard time rooting for my favorite team because they make me hate basketball. Replace Markieff with a player that will give you everything he has and not blame the fans, the refs, or whoever else when he has a bad game and I guarantee you people will forget all about Markieff.

Markieff was fine without Marcus. Marcus is the punk not Markieff. You don't have to be a psychologist to understand that. Look at how marcus talks the smack who started the argument with Hornacek? marcus. who talks the most smack? marcus.

Markieff Morris at 8M a year for his skill set with the current contracts is a steal.

Period.

Put the hatred aside he can absolutely ball on offense you can't question that.

he's best suited as a super sub off the bench dude would win the 6th man of the year or be in the running every year.

He has an amazingly solid midrange game that is super clutch down the stretch of games.

Stop the markieff hate he is good he doesn't suck.

[lilfishi22]

I still like Kieff. He's a solid player on a great contract and I do believe he can help the team. I think he'll get his ish together now that he's on his own again and he doesn't have the comfort of deferring to his brother when the going gets tough. However, if after the meeting it's been determined that he's too butthurt from the trade of his brother (without his consent, I must point out!) then yeah move him. But if he's going to stay professional and stay focused then we should keep him on board.

[TeamTragic]

After the off-season we have had and the projected FA next season why should we care about Kieff and/or Tucker? They are not an integral part of our future plans and that is very obvious. If we can retain Kieff great but if he is going to complain because we had to trade his brother to get a shot at an elite player then he should go play for a lottery team.

We made positive changes in the off-season and if he can't see that then trade his fragile ego to Philly. Since he loves playing on losing teams that don't want to improve their roster and compete for the play-offs. Tucker on the other hand needs to get his ass shipped to China. He spends the off-season drinking by the pool and people still want him on this team?

If you are a true SUNS fan you should never want someone like Tucker on your team. He looks more out of shape each time I see him and after his obvious low basketball IQ (see last season) we should waive him and stretch his salary, if possible. Just **** get rid of him and his lack of discipline.

Daaaaaammn! I like how you think. Tucker should have been gone last year. He is highly overrated by some Suns fans. But hey, if a low IQ, hardworking, low skilled, d-leaguer guy is your thing, than more power to you (those of you who like him).

I'm am not a fan of keiff. But on the other hand, we have NO OTHER power forward (literally). Kinda of need him. Keiff is a less skilled clone of Rodney Rodgers. Keiff could be a great 6th man (with a good attitude) on a good team but his attitude sucks a$$ and his play is erratic far too much. If I had a choice, I would package keiff for a real power forward but there really isn't much out there at the moment. Keiff is not a team player (obviously) but we are about to see what he is all about this year. Again, not a fan of his but Suns are sorta stuck right now.

@InsiderSuns: After not speaking to Markieff Morris for 3 weeks, the Suns plan on meeting Markieff to address their expectations and future with the team.

I'm not saying Kief cannot be a great player. Unfortunately he would have an awesome game one night and then disappear the next. I don't understand how his confidence can be so fragile but I assume there are outside influences (i.e. Mook). Now that Mook is gone there is a chance that Kieff can get to the next level.

He is on a great contract but it seems as though he is already pouting. I wouldn't be surprised if he is dealing with multiple family issues. He could definitely be a great sixth man but he needs to get his life in order otherwise he will end up out of the league after his current contract.

Instead of moving forward from the bitching and whining from last season now we get to watch Kieff throw a tantrum and drag this out until the beginning of the season. I hope I'm wrong because this team deserves high quality players but somehow there is still untapped drama left over from last season

[BobbieL]

I still like Kieff. He's a solid player on a great contract and I do believe he can help the team. I think he'll get his ish together now that he's on his own again and he doesn't have the comfort of deferring to his brother when the going gets tough. However, if after the meeting it's been determined that he's too butthurt from the trade of his brother (without his consent, I must point out!) then yeah move him. But if he's going to stay professional and stay focused then we should keep him on board.

I agree. His skillset on the Suns roster is needed. A guy that can knock down the spot up mid range jumper. He was very effective, Hopefully he is on board without his brother and he can see that playing with Chandler is a good thing. If not ship him out

I think they are keeping Tucker as his contract is not guaranteed next year so they don't want to lose the cap space and take on extra salary. Granted, Tucker for an expiring would work

[bigfoot]

A lot has to go right for us to get 50 wins. Hell, I'd argue a lot has to go right for us to finish at .500

To get .500
-Bledsoe needs to be slightly better then last year
-Knight needs to be the player he was with the bucks
-PJ needs to avoid the booze
-Keef needs to match his performance from last year
-Chandler needs to stay healthy.

To get to 50 wins
-Bledsoe needs to improve from last year (less turnover and a 3 point shot)
-Knight needs to put up allstar numbers
-PJ needs to have a good season
-Keef needs to play at the level he did last year AND keep his cool
-Chandler needs to stay healthy and average a double double
-Len needs to become the best backup center in the NBA
-TJ needs to become a solid bench threat
-We need at least one other consistent performer off the bench.

Usually I'm an optimistic one, but I just don't know anymore.

If Chandler makes the defensive impact we expect him to make, and propels the Suns into Top 10 (or at least Top 15) defensive team, then 50 wins is very realistic. I don't remember the last time Suns had a center of Chandler's caliber (defensively), so his impact to this team could be massive. It's all about him staying healthy. Hopefully Len learns a lot from him.

Offense has never been a problem here. Pretty or not, it's very effective and that's what matters in the end.

True story. And add in the added impact Warren will have this season, the added 'stretch 4' ability of Mirza/Leuer, and the news of Len pushing is offense out to 16'-20' range, and our offense should be AT LEAST as good as the season before last. Then add in Tyson's 'tip-ins' and the like, and his offensive rebounding prowess, that will give us more '2nd chance' shots, and I'm excited for what our offense will bring. I'm tempering my thoughts on Weems a bit; I'm not sold that he'll be a huge contributor, but I'd love for him to prove me wrong.

And yes, our Defense is likely to be much better, as well, so I think we can get to 50 wins next year, or a least back to 48 wins from two seasons ago.

Some reasons I expect will be better is

1) Fewer offensive rebounds by the other team. Chandler is a legit 11-12 rebound per game player.
2) Better offense thru defense ... Chandler will direct the team defense ... leading to more blocks, steals, and rebounds and hence fast break opportunities
3) Better three point shooting ... last year we shot so poorly from three and I don't expect that trend to continue. We have added quite a few players who can hit the three at a decent clip.

[King4Day]

I luh you guys. It's a pleasure talking suns all year round, even when there's nothing to talk about. You guys are the best

[thamadkant]

Bulls / Suns

Markieff Morris + Cavs 2016 pick OR Heat 2018/2019 pick (or combine them)
for
Nikola Mirotic


Why for Suns?
Easy. A true stretch 4 who can create shots and be a threath outside all game long.

Why for Bulls?
They need a scorer off the bench who can isolate and operate against bench level PFs whilst Gasol, Rose and Butler rest. They replace Mirotic's 3pt shooting with McDermott, who has shown some good form in the summer league.
McDermott and Morris combo off the bench gives them a good versatile forward punch inside, mid range and a bit on the low block.

[lilfishi22]

I still like Kieff. He's a solid player on a great contract and I do believe he can help the team. I think he'll get his ish together now that he's on his own again and he doesn't have the comfort of deferring to his brother when the going gets tough. However, if after the meeting it's been determined that he's too butthurt from the trade of his brother (without his consent, I must point out!) then yeah move him. But if he's going to stay professional and stay focused then we should keep him on board.

I agree. His skillset on the Suns roster is needed. A guy that can knock down the spot up mid range jumper. He was very effective, Hopefully he is on board without his brother and he can see that playing with Chandler is a good thing. If not ship him out

I think they are keeping Tucker as his contract is not guaranteed next year so they don't want to lose the cap space and take on extra salary. Granted, Tucker for an expiring would work

Didn't know that. But it could be useful for those teams who are looking to shed salary quick. Potentially valuable trade piece.

[thamadkant]

Tucker to Wizards for a future lottery protected first rounder. (After the Nikola Mirotic trade)

C: Chandler / Len / Leuer
PF: Mirotic / Teletovic / Leuer
SF: Weems / Warren / Booker
SG: Knight / Goodwin / Booker
PG: Bledsoe / Goodwin / Price

[Sunsdeuce]

Tucker to Wizards for a future lottery protected first rounder. (After the Nikola Mirotic trade)

C: Chandler / Len / Leuer
PF: Mirotic / Teletovic / Leuer
SF: Weems / Warren / Booker
SG: Knight / Goodwin / Booker
PG: Bledsoe / Goodwin / Price

After watching his fat a$$ destroy nachos at the summer league (considering he should probably be in the best shape of his life because he should be worried about losing his job to warren), I'm all for trading him for a protected first round BUT it takes two to tango. If I'm Washington, I have Ryan on speaker and than have everyone listening laugh at Ryan. No way would any team give up a first for Tucker.

[TeamTragic]

After watching his fat a$$ destroy nachos at the summer league (considering he should probably be in the best shape of his life because he should be worried about losing his job to warren), I'm all for trading him for a protected first round BUT it takes two to tango. If I'm Washington, I have Ryan on speaker and than have everyone listening laugh at Ryan. No way would any team give up a first for Tucker.

[saintEscaton]

Bulls / Suns

Markieff Morris + Cavs 2016 pick OR Heat 2018/2019 pick (or combine them)
for
Nikola Mirotic


Why for Suns?
Easy. A true stretch 4 who can create shots and be a threath outside all game long.

Why for Bulls?
They need a scorer off the bench who can isolate and operate against bench level PFs whilst Gasol, Rose and Butler rest. They replace Mirotic's 3pt shooting with McDermott, who has shown some good form in the summer league.
McDermott and Morris combo off the bench gives them a good versatile forward punch inside, mid range and a bit on the low block.

Bulls say no. They already have great depth at the 4 anyways with Portis and Gibson(who is the only PF they would make available and drive up the asking price for )so they wouldn't be looking to swap. Thibs barely played Mirotic because he preferred Taj to spell the defensive liability of Gasol but now with an offensive minded coach in Hoiberg, Mirotic will be groomed as the heir apparent and be featured by getting minutes at the 3. Kieff is at best an instaoffense sixth man/PF version of Jamal Crawford (given that he's basically a wannabe SG trapped in a big's body) whereas Mirotic's ceiling is a legitimate franchise building block. We're getting nothing back of such value for dealing Kieff so might as well keep him until his legal issues sort themselves out and we know he's on board.However the verdict in his case is still hanging in the air and the aggravated assault charges may or not be reduced to a misdemeanor after his arraignment But if he demands out ship his ass and get on with it.

[JTrain]

Suns have a new alternate uni this season. See all black on far right:

[Revived]

It's pretty crazy that he dragged a team to the playoffs that started Smush Parker and Kwame Brown. That team had no business being there or winning a single playoff game.

He is supposedly a superstar, a guy like that in his prime should not miss the playoffs regardless of his roster. Chris Paul hauled some horrible Hornet teams to the 2nd round, LeBron dragged a complete joke of a Cavs deep on several deep playoff runs.

Please stop praising Chris Paul. It burns my eyes.

Chris Paul is garbage. He is not on the level of great players like Bryant, or Steve Nash(Sorry had to throw in a 2nd player so I didn't feel dirty speaking positively of Bryant).

Chris Paul has done nothing in the league. All players he's played with that looked good with him, had success and shown to be good with out him.
The NOH teams that Chris Paul lead to mediocrity were not terrible aside from him. He had teams that had David West & Tyson Chandler in the starting line-up, and other good players like Peja. Now I am not implying that those guys are superstars, but those are guys that you combine with true great players and can do some damage in the league.
Chris Paul just this year lost to a Houston Rockets team that is James Harden and nothing. Ok and Dwight Howard, but is Howard even better than DeAndre "no 5" Jordan?
Paul is the most B plus-iest player I have ever seen that has been regarded as a great player.

I think calling him garbage is probably going too far but I agree that he's definitely overrated. Its mind boggling that a player who has played with the likes of guys like David West, Blake Griffin, DeAndre Jordan, and elite shooters like Peja and Reddick can't win more than a series. IMO there is absolutely no comparison between him and Kobe and its probably disrespectful to even mention both in the same breath. And I don't even like Kobe to begin with.

[bigfoot]

He is supposedly a superstar, a guy like that in his prime should not miss the playoffs regardless of his roster. Chris Paul hauled some horrible Hornet teams to the 2nd round, LeBron dragged a complete joke of a Cavs deep on several deep playoff runs.

Please stop praising Chris Paul. It burns my eyes.

Chris Paul is garbage. He is not on the level of great players like Bryant, or Steve Nash(Sorry had to throw in a 2nd player so I didn't feel dirty speaking positively of Bryant).

Chris Paul has done nothing in the league. All players he's played with that looked good with him, had success and shown to be good with out him.
The NOH teams that Chris Paul lead to mediocrity were not terrible aside from him. He had teams that had David West & Tyson Chandler in the starting line-up, and other good players like Peja. Now I am not implying that those guys are superstars, but those are guys that you combine with true great players and can do some damage in the league.
Chris Paul just this year lost to a Houston Rockets team that is James Harden and nothing. Ok and Dwight Howard, but is Howard even better than DeAndre "no 5" Jordan?
Paul is the most B plus-iest player I have ever seen that has been regarded as a great player.

I think calling him garbage is probably going too far but I agree that he's definitely overrated. Its mind boggling that a player who has played with the likes of guys like David West, Blake Griffin, DeAndre Jordan, and elite shooters like Peja and Reddick can't win more than a series. IMO there is absolutely no comparison between him and Kobe and its probably disrespectful to even mention both in the same breath. And I don't even like Kobe to begin with.

Funny but there was a NBA coaches round-table on NBA-TV before the summer league championship game. McCale, Karl, Gentry, Blatt, Carslie, and Hollins. Chris Paul's name was mentioned many times in the show in a very positive light.

http://247sports.com/Bolt/WATCH-NBA-coaches-name-the-smartest-players-theyve-ever-had-38319229

[JTrain]

Here are the throwbacks I'd like: