Suns Offseason Thread V: I Am My Brother's Kieffer

[lilfishi22]

Why doesn't he fit our team? Cause he isn't a Stretch 4? I forgot that our team needs a stretch 4 to win and everyone keeps swearing on these stretch 4's. Let's go find another stretch 4

Thompson hustles and gets Offensive boards. With Chandler and Thompson we would be an amazing rebounding team and also have second chance points on offense.

I think also with the age and motivation for a max. This would be an upgrade to Markieff

[lilfishi22]

I understand what you are saying, and I agree with you....but we are speaking here about a good trade option to save the day with Markieff. I prefer to have a perimeter player like an starting PF for my team ( like Marion was for us or Draymond Green is right now for GSW ) but we don't have the oportunity to grab one of them. We need to trade Markieff for the best package available and I think that Tristan and a pick is a good one.

Markieff will be traded in due time but I'd want more than a one yr rental and a very late pick. I'd prefer lesser player who is excited to be in Phoenix and is a longer term option than have TT who will just be here to showcase TT and get paid elsewhere next offseason. Essentially trading for TT means you're trading Markieff for a very late 1st rounder and/or trash because you can be for damn sure the Cavs aren't giving up anything value.

[letsgosuns]

Tristan Thompson is a superior player to Markieff Morris in many areas except scoring. He is a better rebounder and defender. He provides more hustle and is more athletic than Markieff. In his second and third years in the league, Thompson averaged 12 points and 9 rebounds a game both years as a starter. People keep bringing up his stats this year but he went to the bench and played behind Love. Thompson averaged 10 pts and 13 rebounds per game in the finals. He is a quality player. He has also played 82 games each year the past three years.

Is he worth a max contract right now? Hell no. But like I said earlier, I am not trading for him to give him the max. I am trading for him at his qualifying offer price tag. If he has a great coming season and averages close to or better than 20 and 10, then he will probably be in line for a max contract. And if his averages are that good, the Suns will most likely be pretty good too.

Markieff is only better at shooting than Thompson. Markieff does not play inside or bang down low. Thompson does that. Markieff also seems like he plays in slow motion sometimes with how slow his release is. He is a slow paced player. And I still cannot believe people still want him here after all the things he has said and done. What more does he need to do for some fans to be okay with trading him? Stand outside the arena with an "I hate the Phoenix Suns" sign? C'mon. Just get rid of him already.

[bwgood77]

Tristan Thompson is a superior player to Markieff Morris in many areas except scoring. He is a better rebounder and defender. He provides more hustle and is more athletic than Markieff. In his second and third years in the league, Thompson averaged 12 points and 9 rebounds a game both years as a starter. People keep bringing up his stats this year but he went to the bench and played behind Love. Thompson averaged 10 pts and 13 rebounds per game in the finals. He is a quality player. He has also played 82 games each year the past three years.

Is he worth a max contract right now? Hell no. But like I said earlier, I am not trading for him to give him the max. I am trading for him at his qualifying offer price tag. If he has a great coming season and averages close to or better than 20 and 10, then he will probably be in line for a max contract. And if his averages are that good, the Suns will most likely be pretty good too.

Markieff is only better at shooting than Thompson. Markieff does not play inside or bang down low. Thompson does that. Markieff also seems like he plays in slow motion sometimes with how slow his release is. He is a slow paced player. And I still cannot believe people still want him here after all the things he has said and done. What more does he need to do for some fans to be okay with trading him? Stand outside the arena with an "I hate the Phoenix Suns" sign? C'mon. Just get rid of him already.

I'm ok with trading him, and I think pretty much everyone is, but just not for unequal value. It doesn't really matter WHAT Tristan makes this year, but we would vastly overpay him next summer or lose him for nothing. It just makes no sense. People would write that it is one of the more nonsensical trades they have seen because Tristan will demand a max, and with the huge cap increase that's probably going to be a monster number for him, like $20M+ per year. He's going to want it even if he doesn't average 20 and 10, which he won't, and McD isn't in the business of trading assets for pennies on the dollar.

There have been posters that have said he has waited too long to trade certain assets and their value went down, but I don't necessarily agree that is true. Markieff's value is only going to go up, particularly as he distances himself from the felony charge and people start vastly getting overpaid next summer. I'm not suggesting we keep him for another year, but his value is at a low right now.

I doubt he will be traded until mid season at the earliest. MAYBE right before the season, but I kind of doubt it.

[plonden]

Honestly, 20 and 10 for Tristan Thompson is unrealistic. His career per-36 minute averages are 12.7 points and 10.6 rebounds. Assuming some improvement, he could possibly end up at 15 and 10, but only if he was utilized as a small-ball center. Look at how he scores and where he scores from. Per b-ref, over his career, 87 percent of his shots come within 10 feet of the rim. More importantly, 58.9 percent of his shots are assisted, meaning he has to be set up to score. Last season, a whopping 71.5 percent of his made field goals were assisted! I bet a huge chunk of the remaining points come off of offensive boards/put-backs. TT is a net positive when playing a small-ball center and a net negative when playing PF because of how he scores (assisted or put-backs) and where he scores from (close). He simply won't work next to Chandler or Len.

[Jdiddy701]

Man our team would suck for many years with TT. This board is drunk... Like always.


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[lilfishi22]

Tristan Thompson is a superior player to Markieff Morris in many areas except scoring. He is a better rebounder and defender. He provides more hustle and is more athletic than Markieff. In his second and third years in the league, Thompson averaged 12 points and 9 rebounds a game both years as a starter. People keep bringing up his stats this year but he went to the bench and played behind Love. Thompson averaged 10 pts and 13 rebounds per game in the finals. He is a quality player. He has also played 82 games each year the past three years.

Is he worth a max contract right now? Hell no. But like I said earlier, I am not trading for him to give him the max. I am trading for him at his qualifying offer price tag. If he has a great coming season and averages close to or better than 20 and 10, then he will probably be in line for a max contract. And if his averages are that good, the Suns will most likely be pretty good too.

Markieff is only better at shooting than Thompson. Markieff does not play inside or bang down low. Thompson does that. Markieff also seems like he plays in slow motion sometimes with how slow his release is. He is a slow paced player. And I still cannot believe people still want him here after all the things he has said and done. What more does he need to do for some fans to be okay with trading him? Stand outside the arena with an "I hate the Phoenix Suns" sign? C'mon. Just get rid of him already.

The problem here is two fold. You are trading for him at his QO price but you're not going to be able to resign him because he also won't be the great 20/10 guy who actually deserves a max deal. He won't be a 20/10 guy because he doesn't have the offensive skill or the mindset to be a 20ppg scorer. Even you admitted Kieff is a better scorer and even Kieff as one of the primary options on a high scoring team couldn't be a 20ppg scorer.

He's not worth a max now and he won't be worth a max after next season either. He's an awesome hustle player with a fantastic motor allowing him to contribute to many facets of the game but what he's good at, he's not good at enough to earn him a max deal. In a team without elite scorers in Lebron, Irving and Love, TT is going to be exposed, in the worst possible way.

[Gorilla Warfare]

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/239109/Kings-Sign-Marshall-Henderson-To-Camp-Deal

Haha, as if the Kings didn't already have enough head cases...

[lilfishi22]

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/239109/Kings-Sign-Marshall-Henderson-To-Camp-Deal

Haha, as if the Kings didn't already have enough head cases...

who is this dude?

[Gorilla Warfare]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AKOgh4owr4[/youtube]

[JMac1]

Man our team would suck for many years with TT. This board is drunk... Like always.


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[JMac1]

Oh yea, and hell no to Boozer. Yuck!!

I'd rather take on Chuck Hayes. I'm pretty much giving the starting nod to Mirza.

Looks like PF by committee this yr. I wouldn't play nor even have MoBro involved with this team. He sits at home till we find him a new one. Why play him ? He could blow a knee or pop an achilles and be really worth zero. Sh*t, his mouth alone could further diminish his worth. Hopefully, he'll be gone and we wont have to watch anymore of his pissy antics. I'd be happy with a pick and a TPE. Come on Philly, take him home.

I agree with this post.

[JMac1]

Jumping is not just FORCE of legs against the ground.
Its also how quick this force is applied.

I know body builders who can leg press near a ton... they cant jump more than 20 inches. The ones that does jump 30+ inches also do a lot of running and plyometrics along with leg weight presses.


I know much smaller guys who are good sprinters and they can jump 36 inches easily.

Jumping high = Explosiveness, means power and speed, force is highly dependent on speed/velocity.

Just say quick twitch muscle. Jumping is like running, you are born with it, and can only improve so much.

Some people are indeed born with well developed twitch muscles.

But they can be improved. To what extent I'm not sure.


It's like boxing, some people just jabs with such power/force naturally. But some can develop explosive punches through training.
Jumping can be developed too, but not too late. Lots of high jumpers develop twitch muscles around early teen years. Playing sports and sprinting at that age helps.

Older, and it gets harder. I know 20 year olds who've improved 4-5 inches in verticals after a year of plyometrics. But the real athletic explosive ones are rare. Must of developed their twitch muscles way younger...

You can lose it too, through atrophy

Pretty much spot on IMO and from my experience.

[AtheJ415]

Tristan Thompson is not worth a max on any planet. You can fit at most 3 max players on 1 team. Can you win a title with 3 Tristan Thompson caliber players? I don't think he can be anything better than the 5th best player on a title contender.

He's elite at 1 thing and only 1 thing--grabbing offensive boards. He's a solid defender, but not elite, and his offensive game is so bad that he often doesn't even know what to do when he boards a ball under the hoop.

Yeah, let's pay a record-breaking max to a 1 way player who excels at hustle. Might as well trade for Faried at that point. And people want to move Markieff's 8 mil per year deal for the absolutely nightmarish right to overpay this poor man's Faried and his Jabroni agent 4 times what Kieff gets?! Just reading those ideas makes me want to puke.

[AtheJ415]

Tristan Thompson is supposedly refusing to sign for anything less than a max contract: http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/08/31/report-tristan-thompson-wont-accept-less-than-max-from-cavaliers-his-agent-thinks-raptors-will-offer-it-next-summer/

I think the qualifying offer is just under 7 million for one year. I would trade Markieff for one year of Thompson plus maybe a draft pick or two from the Cavaliers (protected picks of course). The reason why is because if Thompson wants a max contract, he will have to play out of his mind to get it. There is nothing better than having a player signed to a one year deal with the motivation to get paid. It happened with Tim Thomas in 2006. He played incredible for the Suns and basically saved the season that year. Boris Diaw also has done it multiple times where he played better in a contract year.

Taking a one year flyer on a motivated Thompson is not a long term investment and it gets rid of the problem child in Markieff. If Thompson plays amazing and turns into a star as the starting power forward for the Suns, the team can sign him to a long term deal. If it does not work out, let him walk. There is really no financial risk and it does not hurt long term cap space. If anything it helps because it also gets rid of Markieff's 8 million per year contract. It is not like anyone here thinks the Suns are going to win the championship this coming season with Markieff on the team anyway. Might as well get a defender/rebounder/dirty work type player who plays inside like Thompson and go all out with great defense.

If Kieff creates issues for the team as he said he would then I would do this trade in a heartbeat. Why not give TT an opportunity to prove his worth?

He played plenty last year. He proved what he's worth, and it's nowhere close to what his lunatic agent wants, which is why he has no deal, just like the rest of his agent's clients do in this situation.

Thompson simply cannot prove he's worth a max because he lacks the ability to play at that level. His offensive game would have to do a decade's worth of development immediately for him to get anywhere near good enough to become a max player.

[Gorilla Warfare]

Oh yea, and hell no to Boozer. Yuck!!

I'd rather take on Chuck Hayes. I'm pretty much giving the starting nod to Mirza.

Looks like PF by committee this yr. I wouldn't play nor even have MoBro involved with this team. He sits at home till we find him a new one. Why play him ? He could blow a knee or pop an achilles and be really worth zero. Sh*t, his mouth alone could further diminish his worth. Hopefully, he'll be gone and we wont have to watch anymore of his pissy antics. I'd be happy with a pick and a TPE. Come on Philly, take him home.

Some things just can't be unseen...

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wQq9YWZ568[/youtube]

[sunskerr]

Please dude. I don't need an education on this subject.

And we don't need replies like that on this board that don't contribute anything to the discussion.

I gave you a clear outline of why you're not necessarily correct. Brandon Knight was doing an explosive exercise to work on his explosiveness and coordination. If he's box jumping 5 feet, at such a point it's pretty safe to say the person isn't a couch potato.

Thank you for your understanding.

[letsgosuns]

Tristan Thompson is not worth a max on any planet. You can fit at most 3 max players on 1 team. Can you win a title with 3 Tristan Thompson caliber players? I don't think he can be anything better than the 5th best player on a title contender.

He's elite at 1 thing and only 1 thing--grabbing offensive boards. He's a solid defender, but not elite, and his offensive game is so bad that he often doesn't even know what to do when he boards a ball under the hoop.

Yeah, let's pay a record-breaking max to a 1 way player who excels at hustle. Might as well trade for Faried at that point. And people want to move Markieff's 8 mil per year deal for the absolutely nightmarish right to overpay this poor man's Faried and his Jabroni agent 4 times what Kieff gets?! Just reading those ideas makes me want to puke.

Who on here said they want to give Thompson a max contract? Everybody, including myself, has said he is nowhere near a max player. My idea was to trade Markieff for him at his qualifying offer salary plus also one or two future first round picks. I would much rather have a player like Thompson who is trying to earn a max contract (therefore will play as hard as he can) for one year instead of a guy who hates the organization and wants off the team like Markieff. Then if Thompson leaves at the end of the season, so what. You still have the one or two first round picks.

If Thompson comes to Phoenix and plays out of his mind, maybe he is the free agent the Suns will go after and keep. The point is that you replace Markieff with another starting caliber power forward and see how it works out. If it does not work, move on after the season. It is not like anyone expects the Suns to win the title this year. What do they have to lose? They are probably not even going to make the playoffs this year anyway.

And for the people that say Thompson and Chandler will not work because of spacing, who cares. Seriously, who cares. The team is going nowhere with Markieff. Maybe for the first time in 50 years this organization can field one team built around defense and rebounding instead of run as fast as you can and do not play defense like they always do. Plus, if the organization had any confidence in Markieff they would not have done what they did to recruit Aldridge. You are not downgrading if you swap Thompson for Markieff. You lose mid range shooting but gain rebounding and defense. Rebounding and defense wins championships. Not soft, weak players like Markieff who do not even play inside.

[bigfoot]

TT can not be traded without his approval if he signs the qualifying offer. Why would he go to the Suns when he can make more money by winning in the east and making another finals appearance?

[lilfishi22]

Who on here said they want to give Thompson a max contract? Everybody, including myself, has said he is nowhere near a max player. My idea was to trade Markieff for him at his qualifying offer salary plus also one or two future first round picks. I would much rather have a player like Thompson who is trying to earn a max contract (therefore will play as hard as he can) for one year instead of a guy who hates the organization and wants off the team like Markieff. Then if Thompson leaves at the end of the season, so what. You still have the one or two first round picks.

If Thompson comes to Phoenix and plays out of his mind, maybe he is the free agent the Suns will go after and keep. The point is that you replace Markieff with another starting caliber power forward and see how it works out. If it does not work, move on after the season. It is not like anyone expects the Suns to win the title this year. What do they have to lose? They are probably not even going to make the playoffs this year anyway.

If you're not going to resign TT then you've essentially traded Kieff for maybe one very late 1st rounder. That's absolutely terrible value

And for the people that say Thompson and Chandler will not work because of spacing, who cares. Seriously, who cares. The team is going nowhere with Markieff. Maybe for the first time in 50 years this organization can field one team built around defense and rebounding instead of run as fast as you and can do not play defense like they always do. Plus, if the organization had any confidence in Markieff they would not have done what they did to recruit Aldridge. You are not downgrading if you swap Thompson for Markieff. You lose mid range shooting but gain rebounding and defense. Rebounding and defense wins championships. Not soft, weak players like Markieff who do not even play inside.

And for those (you) who are saying TT and Chandler won't work but don't care, then you're not about winning. Plain and simple. We're not winning a championship next season so TT's rebounding and defense is moot. This team isn't going anywhere with Markieff but neither will we with TT.