Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 5

[NavLDO]

I don't know if Young or Doncic could start as a rookie on a playoff team but they are both a heck of a lot better prospects than Jamal freakin Murray was. He doesn't even really pass. What did he average in college, like 2 assists per game?

Murray has the talent to be a really good PG. His passing isn’t much of an issue considering that many of the better PGs today are mostly score first PGs anyway. His assist numbers were low in college because he played next to Fox who was their main distributor while Murray played the 2. And his college assist numbers are irrelevant anyway considering the reigning MVP, who now averages like 10+ in every season, only averaged like 3 assists a game in college and 2 assists per game for his college career.

Jamal Murray is a SG who has mostly struggled shooting. He averages 2.6 apg and 2 to pg in his second year. He is just not a good passer. Westbrook averaged 8 apg and 3.3 to pg in his second year.

Murray was the 7th pick in a pretty bad draft after the top 1 or 2 picks. Murray wasn't even in the same ball park as a prospect as Doncic or Young. Young took an unranked team to one of the best teams in the country, is one of the best shooters in college history, and leads the nation in assists with double digit assists (or rather 9.8 at the moment), which is VERY rare in college. Doncic is the best european prospect ever.

Spoiler:

Murray went to the school that has the best recruits in the country and they were not even all that great that year relatively speaking, losing in the 2nd round of the tournament. It was Tyler Ulis, his teammate who won SEC player of the year over him.

Murray may be able to start at G alongside Harris but that's mostly because the offense runs through Jokic who averages 5 apg and Harris also averages 3.3.

Sorry, man, but you are having one of your hyperbolic moments again. He's not even close to being the best shooter...even this season.

http://cbbref.com/tiny/QL8Cg

And that's with a couple of qualifiers added like at least 11 PPG and 4 APG Guards.

He's great and deserves the attention he's getting, but I'd term it more as one of the highest rising prospects ever, and one of the most prolific scoring college PGs ever, but best shooters in college history?? Not really.

And regarding Doncic? Well, that's highly subjective. It seems every year there's a new 'best prospect ever' in some regard. I know the media types are throwing around the 'best Euro prospect ever' as well, and they will again...

“Personally, I would take Darko ahead of LeBron James because he has more skills and can play more positions. There are very few can’t-miss players, but I have no doubt that Darko is a can’t-miss player.”

Not to mention, Pau Gasol, Tony Parker and Dirk Nowitzki. Problem is, back then, the 'Euro-Prospect Hype-Train' had yet to leave the station. It hasn't been but 8-10 years since European players have been REALLY scouted and hyped. Sure, they have for a long time, but not nearly, not close to the extent they are now.

So while Doncic might be the most 'hyped' European prospect ever, put him back 25 years, or put Gasol, Dirk, Parker, Vlade, etc with Doncic today?? Well, I'm not certain he'd be placed above them. And even if you'd want to argue that he would be, he's gonna have a hard time matching:

Gasol: 18.3 points, 9.2 rebounds, 3.3 assists, 1.6 blocks, 51.5 percent shooting, 21.5 PER, 113.9 win shares

Parker: 17.1 points, 3.0 rebounds, 6.0 assists, 49.5 percent shooting, 19.1 PER, 96.6 win shares

Dirk: 22.5 points, 8.1 rebounds, 2.6 assists, 47.7 percent shooting, 38.4 percent three-point shooting, 23.5 PER, 185.9 win shares + an MVP

[BobbieL]

Trade idea: Kings probably say no but they save a bit of cash over three years - well 2.5 and clear up a bunch of cap space in 2018/2019. Save even more cash if they do ta buyout of Monroe

Monroe and Knight for Z-Bo /Hill

If the Suns truly want to be Free agent players after the 2019 season - this deal would do that. Granted, it would add about 18m to next years cap - which isn't very good but would clear Knight the following year

But if they can pawn Chandler off on somebody - that would be a wash

Kings probably don't do it because they can be free and clear in two years

[kennydorglas]

Ramona Shelbourne is reporting that Giannis tried to save Kidd's job.
Wow.

This might be really good for us.

[lilfishi22]

Phoenix has made a franchise record 70 3-pointers over the past five games, a shooting spurt Triano connects to the 500 3-pointers the players have to make each week in practices and shootarounds.

“As we get better individually as players and spend more time shooting the ball we’re going to become better shooters,” Triano said. “We want to expand our game to the 3-point line. I know as a team we’re still 29th percentage wise but that’s one thing we challenged all of our players, to shoot the ball more and be better at it.

“I think the best shooters in the game have always shot the ball more than other people. Young players haven’t been around long enough to do that. That’s one of the reasons we’ve asked them to shoot the ball more to get to that 10,000 mark (of repetitions) a lot earlier in their career.”

https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nba/suns/2018/01/22/game-day-no-timetable-suns-marquese-chriss-return/1051568001/

Good to know that we are working hard to improve our shooting.

Every time I read about something Triano is doing I love it. Sounds like Triano has read Malcolm Gladwell's book "Outliers" which outlines keys to success, and is a very popular book.

common theme that appears throughout Outliers is the "10,000-Hour Rule", based on a study by Anders Ericsson. Gladwell claims that greatness requires enormous time, using the source of The Beatles' musical talents and Gates' computer savvy as examples.[4] The Beatles performed live in Hamburg, Germany over 1,200 times from 1960 to 1964, amassing more than 10,000 hours of playing time, therefore meeting the 10,000-Hour Rule. Gladwell asserts that all of the time The Beatles spent performing shaped their talent, and quotes Beatles' biographer Philip Norman as saying, "So by the time they returned to England from Hamburg, Germany, 'they sounded like no one else. It was the making of them.'"[4] Gates met the 10,000-Hour Rule when he gained access to a high school computer in 1968 at the age of 13, and spent 10,000 hours programming on it.[4]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outliers_(book)

Even though just taking a lot of shots seems simple, I think forcing guys like Warren, Jackson, Chriss and Bender, and well, everyone to have to put up that many shots, is important in today's NBA.

Reminds me of this. Was a good read back then
https://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Tracy-McGrady-freakish-talent-and-the-peril-o?urn=nba-330022

Best-selling author and noted hairsman Malcolm Gladwell introduced the concept while moderating the opening session of this year's Sloan conference. The talk dealt with how the "10,000 hour rule" that Gladwell discussed in his 2008 book "Outliers" — that the key to success in any field is the purposeful practice of a specific task for 10,000 hours — relates to an athlete's development.

In considering that notion, Gladwell asked the panelists what value should be placed on pure natural talent — the innate genetic gift that we often view as the line of demarcation between the elite and the merely professional — in relationship to, say, work ethic and the capacity to accept instruction.

As often occurs when discussing abstract ideas, talk turned quickly to a physical example — in this case, McGrady, whose combination of size, speed, power and grace beguiled the NBA in the last years of the 20th century and made him one of the league's most dominant offensive forces in the early years of the 21st.

But while McGrady's abilities were awe-inspiring, his willingness to further cultivate them wasn't, according to panelist and ESPN NBA analyst Jeff Van Gundy, who coached the Florida-born star with the Houston Rockets from 2004 through 2007.

Van Gundy estimated McGrady at "probably 1,000 hours of practice," just one-tenth of Gladwell's rule, a figure that elicited laughter from the crowd. Noting that McGrady was as close to he's ever seen as a basketball natural, Van Gundy went on to say that T-Mac "should be a Hall of Fame player."

[NavLDO]

Pelicans didn't trade for Cousins to not be able to resign him. They will do everything in their power to resign him and it's been reported that the Pels planning that max extension for him. Is it in their best interest to do that? Probably not but a team like Pels will do what they can do retain talent.

From a financial standpoint, Cousins has already lost millions by not be eligible for the super max when he was traded to the Pelicans. He'll be set to lose more if he doesn't resign with the Pels. I don't see the Suns as being a significantly better proportion from a team perspective to give up more millions to leave Pels.

It doesn't matter whether he signs with us or the Pels...same money...

Because the Pelicans did not draft Cousins, they cannot offer the same extension to him. They will try and convince Cousins, based off the second half of this season and the beginning parts of next, to stay in New Orleans, or else he can walk as an unrestricted free agent in 2018.

Wherever he goes, Cousins will warrant maximum money, but by switching teams, his new “maximum” amount is less than what it could have been with the Kings. That’s why Cousins’ agent tried to dissuade teams from trading for his client. It’s always about the money.

And, as I already showed in another post, good luck, Pels...

I don't know about that. He wasn't eligble for the designated player max because he was traded from the team that drafted him but he could still get the max that can be offered by a team that's holding his current contract. He can get the 5 year max with the higher raises that he can't get from the open market. Am I wrong on this?

I can't be sure, but I always thought that once you left the team that drafted you, you were no longer entitled to that super-sweet deal with the extra year. But hey, I'm far from a capologist, and only go by what I read in the media, who are wrong half the time.

But my point was, when I calculated it all out, there is almost no way for them Max Cousins, because they already have a Max on Jrue and AD. They also have 2 '8-digit' multi-year deals remaining on 2 players they will never be able to get rid of, IMO...Asik, at 32-YO next year, and Hill, who was injure this year AND isn't that good, and makes more than Warren.

Just those 4 deals puts them at like, $75M. If Cousins is given a Max at $30.3M, it would take them to over the Cap, and only like $17M to fill the other minimum of 8 spots, and one of those is Ajinca at $8.8M. They are pretty much screwed, IMO, unless someone knows something I don't with how the cap works.

[NavLDO]

It doesn't matter whether he signs with us or the Pels...same money...



And, as I already showed in another post, good luck, Pels...

I don't know about that. He wasn't eligble for the designated player max because he was traded from the team that drafted him but he could still get the max that can be offered by a team that's holding his current contract. He can get the 5 year max with the higher raises that he can't get from the open market. Am I wrong on this?

No, you’re right. His max money with Kings > with Pels > with anyone else (barring S&T).

Nav is also putting some hard cap number on the Pels that would only exist if the Pels wanted to be hard capped (making a specific transaction type and hitting the luxury tax apron’s “hard cap”).

OK...so they can go above the $123M Luxury Tax Cap? I would assume the penalty has to be pretty harsh.

So, what can the Pels do that other teams can't? Because only the Kings were allowed to give him 5 years, and the Max is based upon Cap numbers, so what additional 'benefits' can the Pels give him? And if so, it's going to be even worse, because they ARE going to hit that Limit for Luxury Tax spending. I assumed that was a 'hard cap', and the money between the Cap and the Luxury Tax was grey area teams could use to pay extra, but then also pay a penalty, but you are saying they can go above the Luxury Tax limit?

To me, then what's the point of even having a 'Cap' if you can just keep spending anyway. It's like the Lamborghini owner who doesn't really care if he get's a Parking Ticket for parking in a Handicap Zone; OK, whoop-it-dee-do...they just pay the money, which amounts to like a quarter for people like you and me.

[lilfishi22]

It doesn't matter whether he signs with us or the Pels...same money...



And, as I already showed in another post, good luck, Pels...

I don't know about that. He wasn't eligble for the designated player max because he was traded from the team that drafted him but he could still get the max that can be offered by a team that's holding his current contract. He can get the 5 year max with the higher raises that he can't get from the open market. Am I wrong on this?

I can't be sure, but I always thought that once you left the team that drafted you, you were no longer entitled to that super-sweet deal with the extra year. But hey, I'm far from a capologist, and only go by what I read in the media, who are wrong half the time.

But my point was, when I calculated it all out, there is almost no way for them Max Cousins, because they already have a Max on Jrue and AD. They also have 2 '8-digit' multi-year deals remaining on 2 players they will never be able to get rid of, IMO...Asik, at 32-YO next year, and Hill, who was injure this year AND isn't that good, and makes more than Warren.

Just those 4 deals puts them at like, $75M. If Cousins is given a Max at $30.3M, it would take them to over the Cap, and only like $17M to fill the other minimum of 8 spots, and one of those is Ajinca at $8.8M. They are pretty much screwed, IMO, unless someone knows something I don't with how the cap works.

I was a lot more across the old CBA but I'm learning about this CBA now. There's no reason why they can't afford him from a cap perspective. I don't think it's likely they'll go significantly over the LT like some of the top teams these days but I think they'll keep Cousins and fill the rest of the team using exceptions and vet mins. There is no hard cap in the NBA so teams can literally spend as much as they want. That's how teams like GSW can still afford a guy as good as Nick Young despite being well above the LT already. As long as they have roster spots and exceptions to use, they can do whatever they want essentially.

[lilfishi22]

I don't know about that. He wasn't eligble for the designated player max because he was traded from the team that drafted him but he could still get the max that can be offered by a team that's holding his current contract. He can get the 5 year max with the higher raises that he can't get from the open market. Am I wrong on this?

No, you’re right. His max money with Kings > with Pels > with anyone else (barring S&T).

Nav is also putting some hard cap number on the Pels that would only exist if the Pels wanted to be hard capped (making a specific transaction type and hitting the luxury tax apron’s “hard cap”).

OK...so they can go above the $123M Luxury Tax Cap? I would assume the penalty has to be pretty harsh.

So, what can the Pels do that other teams can't? Because only the Kings were allowed to give him 5 years, and the Max is based upon Cap numbers, so what additional 'benefits' can the Pels give him? And if so, it's going to be even worse, because they ARE going to hit that Limit for Luxury Tax spending. I assumed that was a 'hard cap', and the money between the Cap and the Luxury Tax was grey area teams could use to pay extra, but then also pay a penalty, but you are saying they can go above the Luxury Tax limit?

To me, then what's the point of even having a 'Cap' if you can just keep spending anyway. It's like the Lamborghini owner who doesn't really care if he get's a Parking Ticket for parking in a Handicap Zone; OK, whoop-it-dee-do...they just pay the money, which amounts to like a quarter for people like you and me.

Since I'm already on this topic, might as well reply to this as well. The Pels have Cousin's Bird Rights which means they can go over their cap to resign Cousins on the Bird Rights max which is 5 years and 8.5% raises. The Kings, had they not traded him, could've give him the Designated Player Extension which would've give him the same 5 years but his first year salary could have commanded 35% of the salary cap rather than 30%. That's a big difference in starting point if you consider over time those raises are based on the starting figure. So he's essentially lost $30m by not being with his original team and by leaving the Pelicans, he can only sign a 4year deal which could mean he's potentially leaving another $50m on the table.

Assuming $100m is the salary cap, this is what he would've gotten
Kings (Super max) - $35m starting salary, with 8.5% yearly raises, over 5 years that equates to about $207.3m or approx $41.5m per
Pels (Bird rights max) - $30m starting salary, with 8.5% yearly raises, over 5 years equates to about $177.7m or approx $35.5m per
Any other team (regular max) - $30m starting salary, with 5% yearly raises, over 4 years, equates to about $129.3m or approx $32.3m per

And yes, the Pels can go over the cap. The penalty or Luxury Tax is dollar for dollar I believe.

[bwgood77]

Murray has the talent to be a really good PG. His passing isn’t much of an issue considering that many of the better PGs today are mostly score first PGs anyway. His assist numbers were low in college because he played next to Fox who was their main distributor while Murray played the 2. And his college assist numbers are irrelevant anyway considering the reigning MVP, who now averages like 10+ in every season, only averaged like 3 assists a game in college and 2 assists per game for his college career.

Jamal Murray is a SG who has mostly struggled shooting. He averages 2.6 apg and 2 to pg in his second year. He is just not a good passer. Westbrook averaged 8 apg and 3.3 to pg in his second year.

Murray was the 7th pick in a pretty bad draft after the top 1 or 2 picks. Murray wasn't even in the same ball park as a prospect as Doncic or Young. Young took an unranked team to one of the best teams in the country, is one of the best shooters in college history, and leads the nation in assists with double digit assists (or rather 9.8 at the moment), which is VERY rare in college. Doncic is the best european prospect ever.

Spoiler:

Murray went to the school that has the best recruits in the country and they were not even all that great that year relatively speaking, losing in the 2nd round of the tournament. It was Tyler Ulis, his teammate who won SEC player of the year over him.

Murray may be able to start at G alongside Harris but that's mostly because the offense runs through Jokic who averages 5 apg and Harris also averages 3.3.

Sorry, man, but you are having one of your hyperbolic moments again. He's not even close to being the best shooter...even this season.

http://cbbref.com/tiny/QL8Cg

And that's with a couple of qualifiers added like at least 11 PPG and 4 APG Guards.

He's great and deserves the attention he's getting, but I'd term it more as one of the highest rising prospects ever, and one of the most prolific scoring college PGs ever, but best shooters in college history?? Not really.

With a bit more research, context, and % of shots unassisted, range of 3s, difficulty of shot, etc, I think he is probably way up there. There was a great article written by Cole Zwicker about it in which he made some very impressive lists. His percentages have dipped a bit in conference play and with teams game planning specifically for him, but make no mistake, he's one of the best shooting prospects ever.

Your list obviously shows he technically isn't at the top of the best TS% list ever, particularly when some of the players on the list have numbers for 1 or 2 games, I still think if you were to really dig into the numbers, usage and look at the tape, it would be evident he is up there near the top.

From Cole Zwicker's article:

The following is a chart outlines the intersection of true shooting percentage greater than 60 percent and usage rate over 30 percent for drafted guards since 2001/02 (I created this database derived from DraftExpress which should be exhaustive) :

(see chart)

That’s an insane list to be on even in a limited sample, and all but one of those players (Curry as a sophomore) accomplished this in their senior season. Maintaining historical efficiency with an outlier usage rate as a freshman is incredibly promising,

Rendering this more impressive is Young is creating an obscene amount of his own offense and doing so with peak efficiency. Compare his self-created shooting on 2pt jumpers and 3pt jumpers to Lillard as a senior and McCollum’s junior and senior seasons:

Assisted Offense

(See chart)

We haven’t seen anything quite like this, at least over the last decade or so. And to reiterate, we’re talking about being in the same company as some of the best shooters (and the best shooter) of all time.

Perhaps the most promising indicator is at the foul line, where Young again finds a place among elite company:

Free Throw Percentage (Free Throw Attempts > 8 per game 40 Minutes Pace Adjusted) Guards Since 2001/02

(see chart)

https://www.thestepien.com/2017/12/11/can-trae-young-generational-shooter/

Now this was written before conference play so the sample size was smaller but being that he was in such impressive company, and that most of the seasons he compared to were some of the best college seasons by some of the best shooters in history when they were upperclassmen, or Curry as a sophomore, and the fact that he is a freshman, is impressive.

And it is very impressive how much more he creates his own shot than those others who were assisted far more often on their shots.

He obviously will have dropped some on those lists now, but I wouldn't really try and discount his elite shooting too much. He's jumped up and possibly cracked this top elite top 5 prospects primarily because of his shooting (it's certainly not his measurables or athleticism)..it has been so transcendent it took a team with largely the same cast on it from last year, when they were 11-20, to unranked before the season, to #4 in the country last week.

[bwgood77]

It doesn't matter whether he signs with us or the Pels...same money...



And, as I already showed in another post, good luck, Pels...

I don't know about that. He wasn't eligble for the designated player max because he was traded from the team that drafted him but he could still get the max that can be offered by a team that's holding his current contract. He can get the 5 year max with the higher raises that he can't get from the open market. Am I wrong on this?

I can't be sure, but I always thought that once you left the team that drafted you, you were no longer entitled to that super-sweet deal with the extra year. But hey, I'm far from a capologist, and only go by what I read in the media, who are wrong half the time.

But my point was, when I calculated it all out, there is almost no way for them Max Cousins, because they already have a Max on Jrue and AD. They also have 2 '8-digit' multi-year deals remaining on 2 players they will never be able to get rid of, IMO...Asik, at 32-YO next year, and Hill, who was injure this year AND isn't that good, and makes more than Warren.

Just those 4 deals puts them at like, $75M. If Cousins is given a Max at $30.3M, it would take them to over the Cap, and only like $17M to fill the other minimum of 8 spots, and one of those is Ajinca at $8.8M. They are pretty much screwed, IMO, unless someone knows something I don't with how the cap works.

If you have a player's bird rights, you can sign them for five years with 8% raises. Other teams can max out at 4 years and lesser raises (5%). They did create a designated super max you can earn if you stay with the team that drafted you, but that is dependent on certain factors (making all nba, etc) and you can sign those players you drafted up to like 35% of the cap.

But by trading for Cousins, the Pelicans did acquire his "Bird Rights", which allows New Orleans to give the big man a potential five-year extension worth $179 million this offseason and tie him to the franchise through the 2022-23 season.

But the big man could also opt to sign a shorter extension with the Pelicans in order to maximize his potential contract earnings and make up for some of the money he lost after getting traded by Sacramento.

Cousins is only two years away from being eligible for the maximum contract afforded to players that have been in the league for 10 years or longer, which would put him in the position to sign a five-year deal worth up $229 million in the summer of 2020.

http://www.nola.com/pelicans/index.ssf/2017/02/demarcus_cousins_trade_to_new.html

About the cap...you can always go over the cap to re-sign your own free agents. There is no hard cap..they call it a soft cap...that's why they have the luxury tax. The cap is like $99 million and the luxury tax starts at like $113 million. But they can go over the luxury tax if they want. My guess is they would for a season or two until some of those other contracts expire. I doubt they would have traded for him if they were not planning on giving him the max.

Here is more on contracts:

Max salaries fall into three major categories. In the simplest scenario, players with 0-6 years of experience are eligible for 25 percent of the salary cap, 7-9 years at 30 percent and 10 years (or over) of years in the league brings that number up to 35 percent. Players who sign under “Bird rights” are eligible for 8 percent annual raises and ones without them for 5 percent (up from 7.5 and 4.5 percent in the previous cap). Bird rights can get quite nuanced, but in most cases this is the choice between signing with your own team or another. Bird rights are also the difference between being available for a five- or four-year deal.

http://hoopshype.com/2017/05/13/hoopshype-explains-how-do-maximum-contracts-work/

The best argument for him leaving might be that he may want to just to a 1 year deal so he can get to that 10 year mark where h can sign a deal that starts at 35% of the cap in 2020.

If he is just signing that 1 year deal than it would be the same max number wherever he goes (but the only team that could exceed the salary cap to sign it to him is New Orleans)...so that leaves only a handful of teams with the cap space...Dallas, Chicago, LA and a few others and whoever could clear the cap space by trading players.

[bwgood77]

I don't know about that. He wasn't eligble for the designated player max because he was traded from the team that drafted him but he could still get the max that can be offered by a team that's holding his current contract. He can get the 5 year max with the higher raises that he can't get from the open market. Am I wrong on this?

No, you’re right. His max money with Kings > with Pels > with anyone else (barring S&T).

Nav is also putting some hard cap number on the Pels that would only exist if the Pels wanted to be hard capped (making a specific transaction type and hitting the luxury tax apron’s “hard cap”).

OK...so they can go above the $123M Luxury Tax Cap? I would assume the penalty has to be pretty harsh.

So, what can the Pels do that other teams can't? Because only the Kings were allowed to give him 5 years, and the Max is based upon Cap numbers, so what additional 'benefits' can the Pels give him? And if so, it's going to be even worse, because they ARE going to hit that Limit for Luxury Tax spending. I assumed that was a 'hard cap', and the money between the Cap and the Luxury Tax was grey area teams could use to pay extra, but then also pay a penalty, but you are saying they can go above the Luxury Tax limit?

To me, then what's the point of even having a 'Cap' if you can just keep spending anyway. It's like the Lamborghini owner who doesn't really care if he get's a Parking Ticket for parking in a Handicap Zone; OK, whoop-it-dee-do...they just pay the money, which amounts to like a quarter for people like you and me.

The penalty to go over is harsher than it used to be, but with the extra tv money, most teams are likely making a nice profit so paying some tax to keep stars is likely more palatable. Look at the team payrolls....there are 3 teams well over $130 million and 8 teams over $120 million http://hoopshype.com/salaries/

[SideSwipe]

I know some will excoriate me for this, but I'm not totally on the Trae Young bandwagon. I'm worried about his footspeed, athleticism and height at the next level. The least interesting of the big three PG's stat wise is actually a little more interesting to me as a prospect. Trevon Duvalls length and motor make him look like a better prospect, even though I am firmly in the "we need more proven draftees bandwagon" He's less of a passer but still a good passer. He's not as good a shooter for sure, but I don't think Trae's percentages will hold in the NBA. I think Duvall will be able to crash through to the rim and get separation easier at the next level.
My opinion could certainly change between now and the end of the year based on continued consistency, or bad games by Duvall,
but right now that's how I see it

[Qwigglez]

Kawhi “distant” from spurs. Giannis “devastated” by Kidd’s firing. This is exactly why I’m not ready to give up our assets for someone like Kemba Walker. Not saying either of these guys are available today but a true superstar can become available at any moment. We need to be ready for it.

Yet no one sees the irony of a distant Kawhi when the Spurs currently are tied third best record in the West, or a devastated Giannis when the Bucks are currently in the 7th seed in the East. And Booker is this happy-go-lucky kid that is completely content being on a bottom of the barrel team with the Suns, even though Giannis is only two years older than Booker. Not to mention, two of our amazing assets (Heat pick, Bucks pick) expire after the draft, the only real asset we have left is the 2021 Miami Heat Pick. Let's be realistic, using those picks on the rookies we want, is kind of like buying a new car as soon as you leave the lot, the car loses half of it's value. Same with the pick, as soon as we make our choice the rookie's value is now severely diminished.

Again, I'm not advocating trading for Kemba (I really don't like his style... or his height), but if an opportunity arises over the summer like it did last summer, we better pounce. Lillard, McCollum, Blake Griffin could all be potential trade targets. Schroder and Vucevic could be more attainable trade targets. Paul George, Boogie Cousins, and Deandre Jordan are all unrestricted free agents. Restriced free agent such as Aaron Gordon, Clint Capela, Zach Lavine could possibly be stolen (though I think all three teams will easily match). Just saying, we better not just draft 3 more rookies and expect any significant changes at least over the next 2 years in terms of wins and losses. I know we are currently the 5th worst team in the league, and I don't mind standing pat this trade deadline, but we better make some incredible changes this summer.

[bwgood77]

I know some will excoriate me for this, but I'm not totally on the Trae Young bandwagon. I'm worried about his footspeed, athleticism and height at the next level. The least interesting of the big three PG's stat wise is actually a little more interesting to me as a prospect. Trevon Duvalls length and motor make him look like a better prospect, even though I am firmly in the "we need more proven draftees bandwagon" He's less of a passer but still a good passer. He's not as good a shooter for sure, but I don't think Trae's percentages will hold in the NBA. I think Duvall will be able to crash through to the rim and get separation easier at the next level.
My opinion could certainly change between now and the end of the year based on continued consistency, or bad games by Duvall,
but right now that's how I see it

I think there are some certainly higher on Trae than me as well, though I haven't given any thought to Duval, as I would rather not watch Duke basketball. So I haven't seen much of Bagley or Carter either.

There are some things that are a little concerning with Young, at least in relation to how well he looked earlier. With tougher opponents in conference play, his percentages have dropped a bit and his turnovers seem to go up. But he is handling SO MUCH of the offense, so it's hard to know how much you should forgive for that. If I had an earlier worry it would be getting to the rim, but then you watch and it looks like he can do that too.

It just seems like shooting and passing translate well and the fact that he is carried a division 1 school in a major conference on his back to the #4 ranking without really any other really good players on the team is about as impressive as it gets. Obviously they have dropped now after a loss or two down to like 10th and Duke is now #4, and that's with three top prospects in Bagley, Carter and Duval, and probably a lot of other really good players.

While I don't know where I'd place Trae Young, he's hard to ignore.

The good thing about liking Duval is that if we take a big with our first pick, we could maybe get Duval with the Miami pick, and almost certainly with the Milwaukee pick if it conveys.

[Qwigglez]

No, you’re right. His max money with Kings > with Pels > with anyone else (barring S&T).

Nav is also putting some hard cap number on the Pels that would only exist if the Pels wanted to be hard capped (making a specific transaction type and hitting the luxury tax apron’s “hard cap”).

OK...so they can go above the $123M Luxury Tax Cap? I would assume the penalty has to be pretty harsh.

So, what can the Pels do that other teams can't? Because only the Kings were allowed to give him 5 years, and the Max is based upon Cap numbers, so what additional 'benefits' can the Pels give him? And if so, it's going to be even worse, because they ARE going to hit that Limit for Luxury Tax spending. I assumed that was a 'hard cap', and the money between the Cap and the Luxury Tax was grey area teams could use to pay extra, but then also pay a penalty, but you are saying they can go above the Luxury Tax limit?

To me, then what's the point of even having a 'Cap' if you can just keep spending anyway. It's like the Lamborghini owner who doesn't really care if he get's a Parking Ticket for parking in a Handicap Zone; OK, whoop-it-dee-do...they just pay the money, which amounts to like a quarter for people like you and me.

The penalty to go over is harsher than it used to be, but with the extra tv money, most teams are likely making a nice profit so paying some tax to keep stars is likely more palatable. Look at the team payrolls....there are 3 teams well over $130 million and 8 teams over $120 million http://hoopshype.com/salaries/

The penalty is a lot harsher than it used to be...
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2017/07/06/nba-signing-day-brings-salary-cap-luxury-tax-questionsss/103486828/

Q: Are there penalties for exceeding the cap?

A: Yes, there are penalties. And they can be severe, depending on how much a team goes over the cap and how often. Teams pay a luxury tax this year if they exceed $119 million. It starts with $1.50 for every $1 they are over, and rises at various levels from there if they soar $5 million or more past the tax. But that starts at $2.50 for every $1 if a team is a "repeater," having been a taxpayer for the previous three seasons

So for the Pelicans, they really need to shed just 1mil in salary to be under the luxury tax this year, I'm not sure if they paid the luxury tax last year, but if they sign Boogie this off-season to a max deal, then the following season, they will be sitting at $123mil. They could likely trade someone like Darius Miller along with a pick so they are not in the luxury tax this year, and then possibly avoid the repeat offender tax too in the future.

The Warriors and Cavs are paying $137mil, which means they are $18mil over the luxury tax so they have to pay 3.25 times the amount they are over. I believe teams that are over the luxury tax have to pay the teams that are under, so just with the Warriors and Cavs alone, they are going to be paying close to $110mil, and currently there are 8 teams over. Though again, I could see teams that are on the cusps, such as the Blazers, Clippers, and Pelicans move a contract to avoid paying.

[darealjuice]

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/nba/charlotte-hornets/article196084984.html

Charlotte Hornets majority owner Michael Jordan said Monday night he’s not looking to trade point guard Kemba Walker, and would do so only if the return included a major All-Star, such as the San Antonio Spurs’ Kawhi Leonard.

Can we stop talking about the "opportunity we're missing" with Kemba now?

[bwgood77]

The penalty is a lot harsher than it used to be...
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2017/07/06/nba-signing-day-brings-salary-cap-luxury-tax-questionsss/103486828/

Q: Are there penalties for exceeding the cap?

A: Yes, there are penalties. And they can be severe, depending on how much a team goes over the cap and how often. Teams pay a luxury tax this year if they exceed $119 million. It starts with $1.50 for every $1 they are over, and rises at various levels from there if they soar $5 million or more past the tax. But that starts at $2.50 for every $1 if a team is a "repeater," having been a taxpayer for the previous three seasons

Yeah, that repeater tax is what people really want to avoid, and for a team like the Pelicans, if they went into luxury tax by signing Boogie to a long term deal, they could probably get out of it by 2020 when Asik, Hill and Moore come off the books, so they'd avoid the repeater. But they should start adding some cheap rookie contract guys and young talent to be ready when those guys drop off, or they'll have to just find cheap vets and stuff.

[lilfishi22]

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/nba/charlotte-hornets/article196084984.html

Charlotte Hornets majority owner Michael Jordan said Monday night he’s not looking to trade point guard Kemba Walker, and would do so only if the return included a major All-Star, such as the San Antonio Spurs’ Kawhi Leonard.

Can we stop talking about the "opportunity we're missing" with Kemba now?

Is that his version of saying he's not trading Kemba? Or is he delusional?

[darealjuice]

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/nba/charlotte-hornets/article196084984.html

Charlotte Hornets majority owner Michael Jordan said Monday night he’s not looking to trade point guard Kemba Walker, and would do so only if the return included a major All-Star, such as the San Antonio Spurs’ Kawhi Leonard.

Can we stop talking about the "opportunity we're missing" with Kemba now?

Is that his version of saying he's not trading Kemba? Or is he delusional?

Just the author's summation, I think. Direct quote he likely worked with was:

“Obviously, the season has been a disappointment so far, and there have been teams asking about players. Also, we’ve been asking about players,” Jordan said, with the NBA’s trade deadline looming Feb. 8. “We ask teams who they like on our roster and they always say Kemba.

“It’s not like we are shopping him. We would not just give him up. I love Kemba Walker. I would not trade him for anything but an All-Star player.”

While the Kawhi part was probably just included because of the new supposed drama with him and the Spurs.

[lilfishi22]

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/nba/charlotte-hornets/article196084984.html



Can we stop talking about the "opportunity we're missing" with Kemba now?

Is that his version of saying he's not trading Kemba? Or is he delusional?

Just the author's summation, I think. Direct quote he likely worked with was:

“Obviously, the season has been a disappointment so far, and there have been teams asking about players. Also, we’ve been asking about players,” Jordan said, with the NBA’s trade deadline looming Feb. 8. “We ask teams who they like on our roster and they always say Kemba.

“It’s not like we are shopping him. We would not just give him up. I love Kemba Walker. I would not trade him for anything but an All-Star player.”

While the Kawhi part was probably just included because of the new supposed drama with him and the Spurs.

That's a crap ton of assumption to go from "all-star player" to Kawhi freakin' Leonard (DPOY, MVP candidate, all-NBA player) lol