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2020 Offseason Speculation, free agency, summer trades (keep draft prospect talk in draft thread)

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Would you prefer a regular season from Christmas to late June and playoffs late June to late August?

Yes, move season back
30
73%
No, leave as is
11
27%
 
Total votes: 41

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Re: 2019-20 Season Speculation, free agency, summer trades: The excitement of the trade deadline has passed! 

Post#641 » by bwgood77 » Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:47 pm

Revived wrote:
Wilber85 wrote:
Revived wrote:Adding a 40% 3pt shooter to a team that ranks 6th worst in the entire league in 3pt shooting % is definitely something I care more about.


Let's add a scrub who doesnt play on the mavericks, and put him on the bench behind our other scrubs!

Mavs have a pretty deep backcourt while the Suns do not....so yeah even if he wasn’t getting minutes there, he would easily play here.


I was thinking the same....generally I would look at guys who were on good teams but they had to release them. I can't remember who Dallas used that spot on or maybe they haven't yet but probably will on a big since Powell went down. But they did (and maybe still do) have the #1 offense, so a shooter from that team, when we need shooting, seems to make sense.
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Re: 2019-20 Season Speculation, free agency, summer trades: The excitement of the trade deadline has passed! 

Post#642 » by WeekapaugGroove » Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:10 pm

As I mentioned earlier some of these guys (like Bender) haven't cleared waivers yet so they litteraly aren't allowed to be signed yet.

I do wonder if it might be Jonah Bolden. As someone mentioned before Monty coached him last year so theres that connection. He's a somewhat interesting prospect who could be worth a look.

As far as Harper I certainly wouldn't care if they cut him and signed someone else to that 2way spot but it's hard to complain about that spot not being a big when the other 2way spot is currently being used on a big in Owens who they didn't play last night.

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Re: 2019-20 Season Speculation, free agency, summer trades: The excitement of the trade deadline has passed! 

Post#643 » by Ghost of Kleine » Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:39 pm

https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2020/2/11/21132935/what-will-phoenix-suns-do-with-their-open-roster-spot

James Jones joined the 98.7 radio show Doug and Wolf on Tuesday and mentioned the move.

“As we approach the opportunity to get healthy out of the All-Star break,” Jones said. “Is there an opportunity to improve our team? If we have a roster spot where we can opportunistic, and pick and choose how we fill in the back end of our roster, we just thought it was best for the team to allow him the opportunity to move on.”


In that same radio interview, Jones cited the release of Tyler Johnson giving the upper rotation wings more time to shine (Cam, Kelly, Devin, Mikal). That’s all well and good. But what I take from that is that Jones saw Johnson as a wing, not a combo guard or point guard.
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Re: 2019-20 Season Speculation, free agency, summer trades: The excitement of the trade deadline has passed! 

Post#644 » by bwgood77 » Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:49 pm

WeekapaugGroove wrote:As I mentioned earlier some of these guys (like Bender) haven't cleared waivers yet so they litteraly aren't allowed to be signed yet.

I do wonder if it might be Jonah Bolden. As someone mentioned before Monty coached him last year so theres that connection. He's a somewhat interesting prospect who could be worth a look.

As far as Harper I certainly wouldn't care if they cut him and signed someone else to that 2way spot but it's hard to complain about that spot not being a big when the other 2way spot is currently being used on a big in Owens who they didn't play last night.

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Oh, I thought you said it took 48 hours and figured it's been far longer than that.

This tweet was early on Saturday, saying he could sign Monday.

Read on Twitter
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Re: 2019-20 Season Speculation, free agency, summer trades: The excitement of the trade deadline has passed! 

Post#645 » by WeekapaugGroove » Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:55 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:As I mentioned earlier some of these guys (like Bender) haven't cleared waivers yet so they litteraly aren't allowed to be signed yet.

I do wonder if it might be Jonah Bolden. As someone mentioned before Monty coached him last year so theres that connection. He's a somewhat interesting prospect who could be worth a look.

As far as Harper I certainly wouldn't care if they cut him and signed someone else to that 2way spot but it's hard to complain about that spot not being a big when the other 2way spot is currently being used on a big in Owens who they didn't play last night.

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Oh, I thought you said it took 48 hours and figured it's been far longer than that.

This tweet was early on Saturday, saying he could sign Monday.

Read on Twitter
I don't think they officially waived Bender until Monday when they signed Williams. Boldon I think has cleared waivers.

They might be waiting a little bit as more buy out guys filter through the system. As you mentioned earlier really no rush with only one game before the break.

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Re: 2019-20 Season Speculation, free agency, summer trades: The excitement of the trade deadline has passed! 

Post#646 » by bwoolf2 » Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:23 am

WeekapaugGroove wrote:As I mentioned earlier some of these guys (like Bender) haven't cleared waivers yet so they litteraly aren't allowed to be signed yet.

I do wonder if it might be Jonah Bolden. As someone mentioned before Monty coached him last year so theres that connection. He's a somewhat interesting prospect who could be worth a look.

As far as Harper I certainly wouldn't care if they cut him and signed someone else to that 2way spot but it's hard to complain about that spot not being a big when the other 2way spot is currently being used on a big in Owens who they didn't play last night.

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Ya but Owens isn't really a big he is more likely a really skinny small forward, I get he is listed at 6'9 but he can't bang with NBA pf or C he really could only guard SF.
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Re: 2019-20 Season Speculation, free agency, summer trades: The excitement of the trade deadline has passed! 

Post#647 » by sunskerr » Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:11 am

No point talking about banger power forwards if they're not able to hit the 3 ball anymore. It's 2020 folks. Most teams in the NBA are running two "forwards", and don't give a **** about any SF/PF distinction. Keeping up with players on the perimeter is now more important than being isolated/posted up for an inefficient two points.
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Re: 2019-20 Season Speculation, free agency, summer trades: The excitement of the trade deadline has passed! 

Post#648 » by bwoolf2 » Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:52 am

sunskerr wrote:No point talking about banger power forwards if they're not able to hit the 3 ball anymore. It's 2020 folks. Most teams in the NBA are running two "forwards", and don't give a **** about any SF/PF distinction. Keeping up with players on the perimeter is now more important than being isolated/posted up for an inefficient two points.


Except our little forwards got absolutely abused last night, but I agree they have to be able to shoot but I don't think there is any way the Rockets experience goes anywhere, in the playoffs teams like Milwaukee and the Lakers will just beat them up over the course of the series, size still matters in the NBA the difference now is they should be able to shoot also...
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Re: 2019-20 Season Speculation, free agency, summer trades: The excitement of the trade deadline has passed! 

Post#649 » by KLEON » Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:05 am

I always wonder what this team record would be like if they were at full strength. I've never seen this team with so many injuries before and now I'm wondering if the medical staff is injured as well
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Re: 2019-20 Season Speculation, free agency, summer trades: The excitement of the trade deadline has passed! 

Post#651 » by sunskerr » Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:14 am

Years after years of the NBA trending towards playmakers and shooting because the math (aka irrefutable evidence) supports that is the superior playstyle and people still wanna bang down low with bigs. As for last night, yeah, we were missing our best rebounder. Of course they'll go crazy on the boards. The Rockets have good rebounders regardless of their height by the way in Westbrook, Harden, Covington, and Tucker.

Also since you had to bring up the Rockets... if you don't understand how to analyze the Rockets with nuance, I'll leave this here because I don't feel like retyping this entire thing. Everyone needs to read this before drawing their conclusions about how the game of basketball is supposed to be played, based on the evidence of one freaking team. Because that's what you banger PF guys do. You take things and run with it in your mind and start doubling down. Just slow it down a little and wait. Parse out what the factors are in determining why something is succeeding and why something doesn't work. Don't think "we shouldn't do this because they couldn't win"- rather, ask "what can we take from them and then make better?".

sunskerr wrote:You need to appreciate how what the rockets are doing (shooting a billion threes) is able to bridge the talent gap between them and a team like the 2018 Warriors. The fact that it took a CP3 season ender (again, I have to stress this so you don't forget it) for them to lose against a team as stacked as the Warriors seems to suggest one or two of, or most likely a combination of (1) the Rockets' offensive system of shooting an apparently ridiculous number of 3s is superior, and (2) the Warriors did not know how to deal with this level of volume shooting.

In other words, you should measure the systems success relative to some other standard, and not just whether they won a championship. If you think the Warriors were more talented (i.e. they have more stars/better players-I don't think anyone would argue they didn't), then you measure whether or not the Rockets were "over-performing" relative to the Warriors, or relative to what the rest of the league is able to achieve.

This is how improvements/optimizations are made in the NBA. It's not just about copying what the championship winners are doing. Otherwise, no teams would have started increasing the pace of their offenses following the SSOL Suns. The Suns were "successful" in this light despite losing to a dynasty in San Antonio filled with talent, because they found an offensive system that allowed them to play "better" relative to their competition. In that same way, the Warriors in 2015 pushed the envelope in terms of 3PA, and the rest of the league followed suit. The rest of the league caught up and even exceeded the Warriors in terms of 3PA in 2016, especially the Rockets, and they saw "success". Now teams follow the Rockets' lead and are increasing their 3PA every year since 2016.

So going back to what the Rockets are doing today (going with all shooters, no rim runner), their success will be measured by NBA teams' front offices/analytics departments on whether or not they were able to improve their offense and defense- and analysts will take into account the talent level of the Rockets' roster when doing so, as well as the kind of competition they are facing. If they are "successful" then teams will look to emulate it, derive principles from, improve it (6'8"-6'9" 3&D player at center instead of 6'5" PJ Tucker, anyone?), and develop plans against it.

On a slightly related note:

I also think one of the most important things that cannot be understated is the lag time after an innovation in play is made until the rest of the league begins to copy it or develop an adaptation against it. You have a very small window (often just one season long) where your success has the best chance of getting you through to a deep playoff run or even a championship. "The NBA is derivative" is often said, but it is completely true. Coaches are always copying each other and planning against new schemes. You only have a very short time in which the likelihood of you capitalizing on your innovation is at its highest.


Sorry for sounding annoyed. But I really am. It gets to me when people ignore everything in favour of looking at a couple of examples, and brush off certain things that we should actually be learning from, in favour of either who won a game, or who won a championship. It just doesn't work like that in the actual NBA- no front office is doing that, even the very worst ones. I can promise you they have nuanced analyses.
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Re: 2019-20 Season Speculation, free agency, summer trades: The excitement of the trade deadline has passed! 

Post#652 » by BobbieL » Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:19 am

KLEON wrote:I always wonder what this team record would be like if they were at full strength. I've never seen this team with so many injuries before and now I'm wondering if the medical staff is injured as well



I think they would be a few games better. Maybe .500. It’s too bad Jones’ vision didn’t come through. But such is life. Just keep bringing it each night. Getting better.
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Re: 2019-20 Season Speculation, free agency, summer trades: The excitement of the trade deadline has passed! 

Post#653 » by Revived » Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:26 am

Sun trade three 1st-round picks to sign star Bonner

This is the first headline if you go on the ESPN app right now and I read it and scared the **** out of me for like 2 seconds. I immediately thought only the Suns would find a way to circumvent the trade deadline rules and trade three picks for some player related to Matt Bonner.

Whew...
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Post#654 » by sunskerr » Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:30 am

My post can also just be briefly summed up as: Small ball is not about being small- it's about skill set. In other words, PJ Tuckers combination of shooting, rebounding, post defense, and perimeter defense, is more valuable than Capela's rebounding and post defense, in the context of playing with dribble penetrators like Westbrook and Harden.

In that light, the way to improve the Rockets is not by getting a guy like Capela, but getting a replacement for PJ Tucker, who is like PJ Tucker, but...better than PJ Tucker.
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Re: 2019-20 Season Speculation, free agency, summer trades: The excitement of the trade deadline has passed! 

Post#655 » by thamadkant » Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:30 am

sunskerr wrote:No point talking about banger power forwards if they're not able to hit the 3 ball anymore. It's 2020 folks. Most teams in the NBA are running two "forwards", and don't give a **** about any SF/PF distinction. Keeping up with players on the perimeter is now more important than being isolated/posted up for an inefficient two points.




Name the playoff teams running two small forward lineups and compare them to other playoff teams with big front court lineups.


The very best team in the league, Bucks... Run a massive front court... Albeit super unique combo of Giannis and Lopez. But still a huge lineup.
76ers have a massive front court also same with Lakers.
Pacers also have a big front court...

Jazz, Celtics, Nuggets, Rockets, Clippers come to mind as having two combo forwards next to their centers... But look at their defensive players next to those forwards... Clippers actually go big depending on who they play.
Nuggets have a 6'9 athletic SF as its PF but they have a super unique play making center to take advantage of it.

I think you are bias towards a certain style of play rather than actually looking at the real contenders.

The only true solution is to be flexible. The ability to field a fast and small team to matchup well against similar builds but also to go big against big teams.

Oubre and Bridges don't box out for Ayton as well. So teams just bait Ayton out to switch and watch their bigs abuse Oubre and Bridges who try to grab rebounds rather than boxing out. It's crazy.
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Re: 2019-20 Season Speculation, free agency, summer trades: The excitement of the trade deadline has passed! 

Post#656 » by sunskerr » Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:35 am

thamadkant wrote:
sunskerr wrote:No point talking about banger power forwards if they're not able to hit the 3 ball anymore. It's 2020 folks. Most teams in the NBA are running two "forwards", and don't give a **** about any SF/PF distinction. Keeping up with players on the perimeter is now more important than being isolated/posted up for an inefficient two points.




Name the playoff teams running two small forward lineups and compare them to other playoff teams with big front court lineups.


The very best team in the league, Bucks... Run a massive front court... Albeit super unique combo of Giannis and Lopez. But still a huge lineup.
76ers have a massive front court also same with Lakers.
Pacers also have a big front court...

Jazz, Celtics, Nuggets, Rockets, Clippers come to mind as having two combo forwards next to their centers... But look at their defensive players next to those forwards... Clippers actually go big depending on who they play.
Nuggets have a 6'9 athletic SF as its PF but they have a super unique play making center to take advantage of it.

I think you are bias towards a certain style of play rather than actually looking at the real contenders.

The only true solution is to be flexible. The ability to field a fast and small team to matchup well against similar builds but also to go big against big teams.

Oubre and Bridges don't box out for Ayton as well. So teams just bait Ayton out to switch and watch their bigs abuse Oubre and Bridges who try to grab rebounds rather than boxing out. It's crazy.


I like, just posted this a few minutes ago.

sunskerr wrote:My post can also just be briefly summed up as: Small ball is not about being small- it's about skill set. In other words, PJ Tuckers combination of shooting, rebounding, post defense, and perimeter defense, is more valuable than Capela's rebounding and post defense, in the context of playing with dribble penetrators like Westbrook and Harden.

In that light, the way to improve the Rockets is not by getting a guy like Capela, but getting a replacement for PJ Tucker, who is like PJ Tucker, but...better than PJ Tucker.


Also read my really long post above to see why all this stuff needs to actually play out, and also how to effectively critique what the Rockets are doing.

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Re: 2019-20 Season Speculation, free agency, summer trades: The excitement of the trade deadline has passed! 

Post#657 » by KLEON » Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:36 am

Revived wrote:
Sun trade three 1st-round picks to sign star Bonner

This is the first headline if you go on the ESPN app right now and I read it and scared the **** out of me for like 2 seconds. I immediately thought only the Suns would find a way to circumvent the trade deadline rules and trade three picks for some player related to Matt Bonner.

Whew...

Still pissed they traded Bonner and they know that D.T is now injury prone. If they somehow manage to get Tina Charles and Skylar Diggins that would make me happy
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Re: 2019-20 Season Speculation, free agency, summer trades: The excitement of the trade deadline has passed! 

Post#658 » by Revived » Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:39 am

bwgood77 wrote:
Revived wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Treadmill at the bottom of the league? This treadmill is like a baby crawling on it for 10 years.

You forgot the immediate years after Amare left?

If only they had rebuild properly then...


No, but that was a joke too, adding the guys we did and then drafting guys like Morris and Marshall. It's not often you have a championship window. I have said before I would have given Amare the contract over signing those other guys. We would have contended at least for 2 more years before he started to regress, but at least by then maybe we figure something out, or just deal Nash and have the bad Amare contract for a couple years. His FG% was actually still good until he retired in 2016...hovered around a TS% of 60%. He might have outlasted Nash, but then we bring Dragic back at the same time he replaces Nash. Would have been nice had we never made the Marion for Shaq trade too.

I’ve always felt we should’ve re-signed him too. There’s a good chance that his body wouldn’t have broke down under Aaron Nelson or at least it would’ve done so towards the very end of his deal. Our title window was still very much open if we just brought back that same exact roster for the next season which we easily could have done instead of wasting $$ on bunch of scrubs like they did.
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Re: 2019-20 Season Speculation, free agency, summer trades: The excitement of the trade deadline has passed! 

Post#659 » by sunsbum » Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:17 am

Ghost of Kleine wrote:https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2020/2/11/21132935/what-will-phoenix-suns-do-with-their-open-roster-spot

James Jones joined the 98.7 radio show Doug and Wolf on Tuesday and mentioned the move.

“As we approach the opportunity to get healthy out of the All-Star break,” Jones said. “Is there an opportunity to improve our team? If we have a roster spot where we can opportunistic, and pick and choose how we fill in the back end of our roster, we just thought it was best for the team to allow him the opportunity to move on.”


In that same radio interview, Jones cited the release of Tyler Johnson giving the upper rotation wings more time to shine (Cam, Kelly, Devin, Mikal). That’s all well and good. But what I take from that is that Jones saw Johnson as a wing, not a combo guard or point guard.


I hope Dave King doesn't actually get paid to write. How stupid do you have to be to take that snippet from James and twist it into something that makes it seem like JJ views TJ as a SF. Dave King actually believes he knows more about basketball than James Jones :lol:
"Mannnnn I’m like the guy that pissed this whole board off saying literally all year no Mikal, no Mikal in the KD trade."
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Re: 2019-20 Season Speculation, free agency, summer trades: The excitement of the trade deadline has passed! 

Post#660 » by bwgood77 » Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:22 am

Revived wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Revived wrote:You forgot the immediate years after Amare left?

If only they had rebuild properly then...


No, but that was a joke too, adding the guys we did and then drafting guys like Morris and Marshall. It's not often you have a championship window. I have said before I would have given Amare the contract over signing those other guys. We would have contended at least for 2 more years before he started to regress, but at least by then maybe we figure something out, or just deal Nash and have the bad Amare contract for a couple years. His FG% was actually still good until he retired in 2016...hovered around a TS% of 60%. He might have outlasted Nash, but then we bring Dragic back at the same time he replaces Nash. Would have been nice had we never made the Marion for Shaq trade too.

I’ve always felt we should’ve re-signed him too. There’s a good chance that his body wouldn’t have broke down under Aaron Nelson or at least it would’ve done so towards the very end of his deal. Our title window was still very much open if we just brought back that same exact roster for the next season which we easily could have done instead of wasting $$ on bunch of scrubs like they did.


In a way it was very bad that Sarver bought the team right when we became really good, because I think he just became used to it and expected it, regardless of what we did, and then we got to 2010-11.

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