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[King4Day]

My bad man!
I thought that as long as the salaries incoming were "dollar for dollar or less than the salary we'd be sending out, then we could get back a couple of players cumulatively. Like if sending out 18 million in salary from Nurkic, as long as we got back say Caruso (9.8 million) and Craig ( 2,8 million) would be under Nurkics' 18 million salary at 12.6 million. I may be wrong on this, but my understanding was/is that as a 2nd apron team, it's a "dollar for dollar" matching of salaries or a lesser amount coming back. But not sure that we can't receive multiple players back as long as it doesn't exceed the outgoing salary from us, WITH THE EXCEPTION THAT we can't aggregate salaries and another 2nd apron team can't either, BUT if the team/teams we're trading with are not 2nd apron teams, then they can absorb our salary or send back cumulative salaries UP TO the 18 million we're sending out, but not a dollar more. I hope that's correct and makes sense somewhat?

Maybe I have it reversed. I know there is a player aggregation restriction. You'd think the NBA would allow it since teams need ways to get under the tax threshold and restricting trades like this will prevent that even further.

[bwgood77]

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Maybe we could operate as a 3rd team facilitator for Chicago while getting back Caruso and a 2nd rounder or two? Chicago would need to get up to the 4-6 range in a trade with one of San Antonio, Detroit, or Charlotte to be in range for Clingan.

Not too sure of three team frameworks here, but it'd likely require us sending out Nurkic as he's our largest salary that we can exchange in trade for Caruso's 9.8 million salary. Especially since Allen can't be traded until October.

San Antonio/ Chicago/ Phoenix 3 team trade

San Antonio-
Nurkic/ Terry/ Phoenix 2031 1st (top 4 protected)/ 11th pick.

Chicago-
Devonte Graham/ 4th pick ( Clingan).


Phoenix
Caruso/ 35th and 48th picks.

Not the best deal for us giving up Nurkic for two 2nds, BUT we could just target a center at 22 ( Missi or Edey) and then take Ajay Mitchell at 35 and Keshad Johnson at 42? Otherwise with the 22nd, 35th and 38th picks, we could take Kolek at 22, Holmes or Comche at 35, and Johnson or Bridges at 48. Then sign Ariel Hukporti ( 7'0 ft Capela) from the undrafted range.

Chicago/Phoenix/ Detroit 3 team trade

Detroit-
Nurkic/ Caruso/ 22nd pick ( Phoenix) / Phoenix 2031 1st/ 25' POR 1st ( protected 1-14).

Chicago-
Sasser/ Metu / 5th pick (Clingan).

Phoenix-
Carter/ Craig/ 11th pick/ 53rd pick.
**( We trade the 11th and 53rd picks to New York for their 24th, 25th and 38th picks).


Chicago/ Phoenix/ Charlotte 3 team trade

Charlotte-
Nurkic/ Terry/ Carter/ 22nd pick/ PHX 2031 1st/ 25' POR 1st ( 1- 14 protected).

Chicago-
Bertans/ Micic/ 6th pick ( Clingan).


Phoenix-
Caruso/ Craig/ Richards/ 11th pick.
** ( We trade the 11th pick to either New York or Utah for):

New York-
24th, 25th, 38th picks.

Utah-
Little ( salary)/ 11th pick for Walker Kessler/ Micah Potter/ 29th and 32nd picks. Kessler becomes our more mobile starting center. Micah potter is a 6'10 245 lb budget version of Maxi Kleber ( can hit threes). So we've upgraded our frontcourt a bit and can use the 29th pick for Daron Holmes or Ulriche Comche. And the 32nd pick for Ajay Mitchell. Sign Ariel Hukporti or Joel Soriano from the undrafted range pool for backup center.

Beal/ Booker/ Batum/ KD / Kessler.
Caruso/ Allen/ O' neale/ Potter/ Richards.
Mitchell/ D Lee/ Bol Bol/ Comche/ Soriano.

Have you ever considered a 2 team trade?

Suns can't receive more than one player back if they trade with one team. That's why we hired that guy from the Nets (likely GoK in disguise ), since he's great at 3 team deals

Though, I don't think we can get back more than one player per team. So 2 in, as long as it's one per team.

Are you positive we can get two players back in a trade (and send more than one player out) just because multiple teams are involved? Maybe with two separate trades with different players. Seems like a loophole that doesn't seem like it should work.

[bwgood77]

While I agree Luka and Book being at least a tier apart, I don't think the Suns getting swept then Wolves getting gentlemen swept means Mavs are then necessarily multiple tiers above us. That's not how match ups work. For example, I think Denver could've dismantled the Mavs and give the C's a really good run for their money but they ran into a team that just had the size and the players to make it really tough for the Nuggets and Jokic to execute their elite offense consistently. Match ups and peaking at the right time really goes a long way. I thought we had a good match up with the Wolves but while we were still finding our feet, they were absolutely starting to peak and they just brought it whereas we didn't.

I meant we are a tier below those top teams but the gap is huge IMO.

The Wolves definitely peaked at the right time, I still think Denver is the better team. They lost G7 because Malone only played 6 guys running Jokić and a already limping Murray to the ground. I was pretty high on the Wolves before the playoff and after our series, but after what I saw in the Denver series then in the Mavs series, I think they are less then what they showed. Denver actually had the blue print but they don't have a consistent secondary guy as a release point to Murray, and the Mavs have Kyrie and even Exum to help on that part. We see when their ball pressure doesn't work, they really don't have plan B.

Anyway I don't want to make this long but my point is, as it stands, Nuggets, Mavs, Wolves are on a tier of their own. OKC is close but I think they are clearly below the above 3 teams and like you said, matchup is a thing and teams like the Lakers can give them problems. After OKC it's the rest of the above .500 team in the West and I like our chance against any team in this tier maybe besides the Lakers. The only way I see us break through and have a shot at the top 4 teams above is if we get a starter caliber PG or Wing that can handle the ball and set guys up. The fact that James Jones and Matt Ishbia came out and said we don't really need one give me 0 hope at climbing to the top.

I don't think OKC is below the first tier. They were right there with the #1 seed(s) which changed throughout the season, but were close, and crushed a lot of other great teams...including us I think. Plus, they are the one team that most certainly will improve the most of all of them, given their age and upside.

[King4Day]

Have you ever considered a 2 team trade?

Suns can't receive more than one player back if they trade with one team. That's why we hired that guy from the Nets (likely GoK in disguise ), since he's great at 3 team deals

Though, I don't think we can get back more than one player per team. So 2 in, as long as it's one per team.

Are you positive we can get two players back in a trade (and send more than one player out) just because multiple teams are involved? Maybe with two separate trades with different players. Seems like a loophole that doesn't seem like it should work.

I found this which speaks to it a bit. I'm sure there are clearer articles too. I'm not sure if this means we CAN trade 2 for 2 or if we simply can't send out more than a single player per trade.

The second-apron repercussions will begin in earnest once the league calendar flips to 2024-25, with teams above that threshold now losing any mid-level exception entirely. They aren’t just limited to the 100% salary matching in trades, but second apron teams will also be prohibited from combining multiple players’ salaries into trades as well. Phoenix, as a specific example, could not trade both Jusuf Nurkić and Nassir Little for one player making $24.8 million. Second-apron teams also can’t utilize trade exceptions from previous years or send cash to help get deals over the finish line.

https://sports.yahoo.com/nba-offseason-what-is-the-cbas-second-apron-and-how-does-it-limit-high-spending-teams-215607328.html

[dremill24]

Suns can't receive more than one player back if they trade with one team. That's why we hired that guy from the Nets (likely GoK in disguise ), since he's great at 3 team deals

Though, I don't think we can get back more than one player per team. So 2 in, as long as it's one per team.

Are you positive we can get two players back in a trade (and send more than one player out) just because multiple teams are involved? Maybe with two separate trades with different players. Seems like a loophole that doesn't seem like it should work.

I found this which speaks to it a bit. I'm sure there are clearer articles too. I'm not sure if this means we CAN trade 2 for 2 or if we simply can't send out more than a single player per trade.

The second-apron repercussions will begin in earnest once the league calendar flips to 2024-25, with teams above that threshold now losing any mid-level exception entirely. They aren’t just limited to the 100% salary matching in trades, but second apron teams will also be prohibited from combining multiple players’ salaries into trades as well. Phoenix, as a specific example, could not trade both Jusuf Nurkić and Nassir Little for one player making $24.8 million. Second-apron teams also can’t utilize trade exceptions from previous years or send cash to help get deals over the finish line.

https://sports.yahoo.com/nba-offseason-what-is-the-cbas-second-apron-and-how-does-it-limit-high-spending-teams-215607328.html

The aggregation restriction is on outgoing salaries, not incoming.

[King4Day]

Are you positive we can get two players back in a trade (and send more than one player out) just because multiple teams are involved? Maybe with two separate trades with different players. Seems like a loophole that doesn't seem like it should work.

I found this which speaks to it a bit. I'm sure there are clearer articles too. I'm not sure if this means we CAN trade 2 for 2 or if we simply can't send out more than a single player per trade.

The second-apron repercussions will begin in earnest once the league calendar flips to 2024-25, with teams above that threshold now losing any mid-level exception entirely. They aren’t just limited to the 100% salary matching in trades, but second apron teams will also be prohibited from combining multiple players’ salaries into trades as well. Phoenix, as a specific example, could not trade both Jusuf Nurkić and Nassir Little for one player making $24.8 million. Second-apron teams also can’t utilize trade exceptions from previous years or send cash to help get deals over the finish line.

https://sports.yahoo.com/nba-offseason-what-is-the-cbas-second-apron-and-how-does-it-limit-high-spending-teams-215607328.html

The aggregation restriction is on outgoing salaries, not incoming.

I believe that's why the 3-team trade ideas are so important.
One player to one team, and one to another is supposed to be allowed

[dremill24]

I found this which speaks to it a bit. I'm sure there are clearer articles too. I'm not sure if this means we CAN trade 2 for 2 or if we simply can't send out more than a single player per trade.

The aggregation restriction is on outgoing salaries, not incoming.

I believe that's why the 3-team trade ideas are so important.
One player to one team, and one to another is supposed to be allowed

Really not sure where you're going here...if it is ONE trade transaction, then no matter how many teams are involved (2 or 3 or 8), the Suns cannot send out more than one player. They can receive as many players as they want back in this transaction as long as all other applicable rules for the transaction are followed. I suppose there are ways you could do mutliple transactions with the same team where you send out one player in one transaction and a 2nd player in another, but it would technically be two trades and each trade individually would be subject to all the applicable transaction restrictions based on the teams involved.

A 3 team trade scenario is more beneficial in working around the restriction of the Suns not being able to take back more salary than they send out, not so much the aggregation restriction. So if the 2nd team needs to send out 3 salaries to be able to take in one of ours, but that total 3-player salary is more than what we sent out, then a 3rd team that can add salary can take, say, the 3rd guy that would be coming our way so that the deal is legal for the Suns. You just then have to make it worthwhile for that 3rd team, and round/round you go.

[mkot]

I don't think OKC is below the first tier. They were right there with the #1 seed(s) which changed throughout the season, but were close, and crushed a lot of other great teams...including us I think. Plus, they are the one team that most certainly will improve the most of all of them, given their age and upside.

I said this base on what happened this season and in the playoffs, not 1 year down the line that's why I said as it stands. OKC's frontline got exposed in the playoffs, mainly Chet Holmgren even against the depleted Pelicans frontline. He only scored over 20pt once, grabbed double digit board once, and shooting below 30% beyond the arc throughout the playoffs. All the 3 teams above them are bigger at the 4 and 5 spot, if he and Jaylin Williams struggle against Gafford and Lively, they will have a even tougher time against the bigs from Denver and Minny. The same reason why the Lakers are consistently beating them and are a bad matchup for them despite how flawed of a team the Lakers are

[KdoubleDees23]

Suns were on track to be the celtics! but they went for a homerun swing and missed.

Bridges, Booker, Veteran PG, CamJo, etc. They shouldnt have got KD, Beal.

Should have traded Ayton and some picks for Defensive big, and more shooters.

[mkot]

Suns were on track to be the celtics! but they went for a homerun swing and missed.

Bridges, Booker, Veteran PG, CamJo, etc. They shouldnt have got KD, Beal.

Should have traded Ayton and some picks for Defensive big, and more shooters.

It's a proof of concept that you can still win even if you don't have a top 5 player on your team as long as you have 5 all-star caliber

[garrick]

I don't think OKC is below the first tier. They were right there with the #1 seed(s) which changed throughout the season, but were close, and crushed a lot of other great teams...including us I think. Plus, they are the one team that most certainly will improve the most of all of them, given their age and upside.

I said this base on what happened this season and in the playoffs, not 1 year down the line that's why I said as it stands. OKC's frontline got exposed in the playoffs, mainly Chet Holmgren even against the depleted Pelicans frontline. He only scored over 20pt once, grabbed double digit board once, and shooting below 30% beyond the arc throughout the playoffs. All the 3 teams above them are bigger at the 4 and 5 spot, if he and Jaylin Williams struggle against Gafford and Lively, they will have a even tougher time against the bigs from Denver and Minny. The same reason why the Lakers are consistently beating them and are a bad matchup for them despite how flawed of a team the Lakers are

Luckily OKC has so many draft picks and young talent that they could easily swing some trades like how Dallas did and add some size to their roster.

They also need a second all star level player to pair with SGA since I am not really convinced Chet is that player, he is very good in some ways but his lack of strength is a real liability in the playoffs.

[sunsbg]

Suns reddit having fun today.

Treadmill is Luka Doncic father

Fan who got ejected is Luka Doncic father

Lateral defensive movement is Luka Doncic father

Wet spot on floor is Luka Doncic father

Entire Celtics roster is Luka Doncic father

https://i.redd.it/xmicj1pr697d1.png?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

[bullsaficianado]

Well Booker and Luka have something in common now to talk over while having a beer together. Both lost in the Finals.

[sunsbg]

Well Booker and Luka have something in common now to talk over while having a beer together. Both lost in the Finals.

Jrue is Luka and Book's father

What a turn of events.

Maybe the brothers can join and win one in future. Since we don't have any assets before Luka turns 35yo most likely that will happen on the Mavs.

[KdoubleDees23]

At least we won 2 against Jrue!!!

[garrick]

Suns were on track to be the celtics! but they went for a homerun swing and missed.

Bridges, Booker, Veteran PG, CamJo, etc. They shouldnt have got KD, Beal.

Should have traded Ayton and some picks for Defensive big, and more shooters.

It's a proof of concept that you can still win even if you don't have a top 5 player on your team as long as you have 5 all-star caliber

Well it's also playing the long game and having really good GM's, front office and coaches.

Ainge started this by drafting Brown and Tatum and Brad Stevens pulled off a lot of good moves by getting KP, White, Horford and Holiday.

The Celtics are the team that Silver would like the rest of the league to emulate while the Suns are the poster child of what not to do and a lesson for any new owners not to go crazy with trades without learning a bit about the business first.

[bwgood77]

I don't think OKC is below the first tier. They were right there with the #1 seed(s) which changed throughout the season, but were close, and crushed a lot of other great teams...including us I think. Plus, they are the one team that most certainly will improve the most of all of them, given their age and upside.

I said this base on what happened this season and in the playoffs, not 1 year down the line that's why I said as it stands. OKC's frontline got exposed in the playoffs, mainly Chet Holmgren even against the depleted Pelicans frontline. He only scored over 20pt once, grabbed double digit board once, and shooting below 30% beyond the arc throughout the playoffs. All the 3 teams above them are bigger at the 4 and 5 spot, if he and Jaylin Williams struggle against Gafford and Lively, they will have a even tougher time against the bigs from Denver and Minny. The same reason why the Lakers are consistently beating them and are a bad matchup for them despite how flawed of a team the Lakers are

Luckily OKC has so many draft picks and young talent that they could easily swing some trades like how Dallas did and add some size to their roster.

They also need a second all star level player to pair with SGA since I am not really convinced Chet is that player, he is very good in some ways but his lack of strength is a real liability in the playoffs.

Jalen Williams may possibly be that star. All star is tough in the west right now. But they have multiple very solid very young players with Williams, Chet and Giddey.

[mkot]

[

Luckily OKC has so many draft picks and young talent that they could easily swing some trades like how Dallas did and add some size to their roster.

They also need a second all star level player to pair with SGA since I am not really convinced Chet is that player, he is very good in some ways but his lack of strength is a real liability in the playoffs.

It would be crazy for them to give up Chet this early, I think what they really need is a starting calibre big man to move Chet to the 4 and Jalen Williams to the 3 which I think is his natural position. Jaylin Williams is not the answer at the starting 5, he is ok off the bench

[mkot]

Well it's also playing the long game and having really good GM's, front office and coaches.

Ainge started this by drafting Brown and Tatum and Brad Stevens pulled off a lot of good moves by getting KP, White, Horford and Holiday.

The Celtics are the team that Silver would like the rest of the league to emulate while the Suns are the poster child of what not to do and a lesson for any new owners not to go crazy with trades without learning a bit about the business first.

If you look at the champs from the past few years, Warriors, Nuggets and Celtics, the common theme is continuity, meaning you identify your core guys and make moves on the margin to improve the roster. Even if you failed due to health or unlucky break here and there, be patient, keep the faith until the wheel falls off ala Warriors this year.

Unfortunately for us, our core of Booker, KD and Beal doesn't really fit well together, but so does Brown and Tatum. That's why what we see from Tatum this playoff is so inspiring. He let Brown have his moment and did enough of other things to help his team. They still can't have good games together where they can play off each other success but who cares, they have enough guys to contribute and do their job to help win games. All their starters are all-star calibre players and are stars in their role, buy in and accept a lesser role for the bigger picture. Boston have Jrue Holiday playing the 5th option, Denver have Aaron Gordon playing the 4th option behind their core, we have Eric freaking Gordon demanding more shots.

[lilfishi22]

I just don't think there is one singular "blueprint" to winning a championship. Every few years that "blueprint" changes so trying to chase what the most recent winners has done doesn't necessarily mean you are or will build a winner. So there are traits you certainly want to value like continuity but so should offense, defense, TALENT, coaching etc etc. There's a myriad of different data points you could highlight to say *this* is why they won but reality is that it's a multitude of factors and imo the biggest is just maximising the talent you have but whatever means you can. Like if I look at the Mavs, I don't think they come close to the most talented teams but on their run, they absolutely maximised the role players which allowed their true talents to cook. Not too dissimilar to what the Heat have been doing routinely over the last few years while beating those Celtics teams. Continuity is a big factor but the Lakers won with a team that didn't know how to win before Lebron, coached by Vogel. Remember when the dynasty warriors was the blueprint? Well it's great on paper if you can find dudes as unique is Steph, Draymond and Klay while being coached by Kerr.

Like I said, maximising the talent you have will give you the best chance of being competitive, no matter what level of talent you have. If you have elite talent like we have, then maximising that will give you a good chance to have postseason success.