2016 Draft Thread Part 4

[Kerrsed]

This is why.

again......why do people think Okafor (specifically), a center who can't stretch the floor, play defense, or rebound, a good fit as a Phoenix Sun? you know, the run and gun fun ones? it's not a match.

Really? We do not have an offensive identity.

Bingo. We havent been those Run & Gun Suns for years. Just because we played a certain way in the past, doesnt mean that we need to continue that way. Look, we had a 2 time MVP as a floor general, all-stars in Amre and Marion and JJ, and WE STILL COULDNT GET IT DONE. GS was able to, but they also have the current MVP, a few of the leagues best shooters, and DEFENDERS. Even then tehy still couldnt get it done this year. Defense wins in this league. The fun Run & Gun Suns are dead and we need to start changing up our system to be more defensive orientated. Get players that fit that scheme. If that slowing down the game like the Spurs, so be it. If thats utilizing more half court sets like Cleveland, so be it. Sure Run & Gun was exciting and fun to watch, but you know whats better? WINNING.

[8on]

This is why.

again......why do people think Okafor (specifically), a center who can't stretch the floor, play defense, or rebound, a good fit as a Phoenix Sun? you know, the run and gun fun ones? it's not a match.

Really? We do not have an offensive identity.

Modern NBA! Small ball! Bad defensively and rebound-wise! Already have two centers! Already have Teletovic and Leuer!

Bad! Not a Sun! Not fast! Back to basket game time required! DOES not compute.

[bwgood77]

Plus I kind of like seeing snapshots at various points in time, which you kind of lose with ever changing polls.

I think "trade" should be a poll option.

Yes, I should have put that instead of one of the options, but it probably would reset again if I changed again so I guess we will just see people's choice assuming we keep the pick.

[thamadkant]

if i've said it once, i've said a thousand times......WHY DO PEOPLE THINK OKAFOR IS A GOOD FIT HERE?!?!?!?!?

ahhhhhhh need to log off

This is why.

“He’s not as NBA-ready as the rest of the prospects the Suns are going to be looking at,” Ford told Arizona Sports 98.7 FM’s Burns and Gambo show. “The only thing that makes me question Phoenix taking him at four is that they’ve not been very patient. (Suns owner) Robert Sarver has not been very patient in the past and Marquese Chriss, of all the guys they could select, you’re going to have to be patient with.”

If the Suns really aren’t willing to wait on a rookie to develop, Ford believes they very well could trade out of the No. 4 spot.

While trading down a couple of spots might not net a huge return, it’s possible Phoenix would be happy trading one or both of their lottery picks.

“From everything that I’m hearing, Phoenix is talking to a lot of teams about a lot of things that would have them maybe moving No. 4, to move out of the draft completely and get a youngish veteran that can come in and contribute right now,”

again......why do people think Okafor (specifically), a center who can't stretch the floor, play defense, or rebound, a good fit as a Phoenix Sun? you know, the run and gun fun ones? it's not a match.

As mentioned by jmac.

The suns suck at run and gun and slow tempo. Look at the record for the last 6 years. The suns do not have anything to really build upon on... They dont have an identity worth building on. Okafor could be what shapes the suns next decade.

[8on]

again......why do people think Okafor (specifically), a center who can't stretch the floor, play defense, or rebound, a good fit as a Phoenix Sun? you know, the run and gun fun ones? it's not a match.

Really? We do not have an offensive identity.

Bingo. We havent been those Run & Gun Suns for years. Just because we played a certain way in the past, doesnt mean that we need to continue that way. Look, we had a 2 time MVP as a floor general, all-stars in Amre and Marion and JJ, and WE STILL COULDNT GET IT DONE. GS was able to, but they also have the current MVP, a few of the leagues best shooters, and DEFENDERS. Even then tehy still couldnt get it done this year. Defense wins in this league. The fun Run & Gun Suns are dead and we need to start changing up our system to be more defensive orientated. Get players that fit that scheme. If that slowing down the game like the Spurs, so be it. If thats utilizing more half court sets like Cleveland, so be it. Sure Run & Gun was exciting and fun to watch, but you know whats better? WINNING.

JAHLIL NO DEFENSE! JAHLIL NO GOOD REBOUND! we need rebounding and defense to win championship! right?

also, why oh why would the Sixers talk to us when they could talk to the Celtics?

[darealjuice]

Mcdonough has pressure to improve this year or he's gonna be gone soon. Thats the big reason I dont see us going with Chriss or someone thats gonna need a few years to develop. Cant have another Len.

Btw, Earl had an interview a few weeks ago and they asked him what kind of players he would like in the draft. He said we need shooting, someone that can play above the rim and versatility.

Who fits that bill? That rules out just everybody else . In theory Chriss is what they are looking for

Juancho and Timothe Luwawu also fit that bill pretty well

[Krush32]

Mcdonough has pressure to improve this year or he's gonna be gone soon. Thats the big reason I dont see us going with Chriss or someone thats gonna need a few years to develop. Cant have another Len.

Btw, Earl had an interview a few weeks ago and they asked him what kind of players he would like in the draft. He said we need shooting, someone that can play above the rim and versatility.

A Steph Curry/Dominqu Wilkins/Magic Johnson Hybrid?

WTF kind of statement is that?

We have 4 draft picks. Think.

[darealjuice]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/NateDuncanNBA/status/745112025106309120[/tweet]

Nate Duncan talking draft with Mike Schmitz. Big fan of Dunc'd On, haven't listened to the entire thing yet but so far so good.

Who does he like coming to us? I couldn't get it to play and probably going to log off soon.

Thought this was funny lol, Duncan was asking Schmitz about his 2 biggest misses for projections in the draft and his first one to mind was Alex Len

Schmitz said he had him 1st overall in the draft, thinks the jury isn't quite out and he can still turn around, and that he thinks injuries have played a part in his slower development

[thamadkant]

Really? We do not have an offensive identity.

Bingo. We havent been those Run & Gun Suns for years. Just because we played a certain way in the past, doesnt mean that we need to continue that way. Look, we had a 2 time MVP as a floor general, all-stars in Amre and Marion and JJ, and WE STILL COULDNT GET IT DONE. GS was able to, but they also have the current MVP, a few of the leagues best shooters, and DEFENDERS. Even then tehy still couldnt get it done this year. Defense wins in this league. The fun Run & Gun Suns are dead and we need to start changing up our system to be more defensive orientated. Get players that fit that scheme. If that slowing down the game like the Spurs, so be it. If thats utilizing more half court sets like Cleveland, so be it. Sure Run & Gun was exciting and fun to watch, but you know whats better? WINNING.

JAHLIL NO DEFENSE! JAHLIL NO GOOD REBOUND! we need rebounding and defense to win championship! right?

also, why oh why would the Sixers talk to us when they could talk to the Celtics?

Wtf you on about. He's a 17ppg 8rpg 1.3bpg for a 18-19 year big man. Thats more than rookie Len and Chandler....

[bwgood77]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/NateDuncanNBA/status/745112025106309120[/tweet]

Nate Duncan talking draft with Mike Schmitz. Big fan of Dunc'd On, haven't listened to the entire thing yet but so far so good.

Who does he like coming to us? I couldn't get it to play and probably going to log off soon.

Thought this was funny lol, Duncan was asking Schmitz about his 2 biggest misses for projections in the draft and his first one to mind was Alex Len

Schmitz said he had him 1st overall in the draft, thinks the jury isn't quite out and he can still turn around, and that he thinks injuries have played a part in his slower development

Even though better centers went behind him, I don't really think too many of the players that went ahead of him, if any, were better picks. I still have hope he'll turn it around too. He was making some nice development in all areas and developed in some areas this year like rebounding and assists, but his shooting was head scratching and blocks going down was odd, but some of that was probably due to playing with Chandler some and splitting time with him and playing with a crap lineup most of the year.

[8on]

fine, but he'll never be a Sun. doesn't matter. (McD will stay, of course. last summer, when Sarver said he had full confidence in McD, he meant it. at least as far as i can tell.)

[TeamTragic]

Like i said the past few days, If we trade our pick to LA for Russell and Bledsoe or Knight to SAC for #8, i still believe that either 1 or both of Chriss/Bender will still be there on the board at #8. I'd feel much better taking a chance on them there than @ #4.

That is not a terrible deal. Highly unlikely we help the Lakers though especially if Lebron is potentially signing with them.

Unlikely we help the Lakers? What if in reality its actually helping US out in the long run. We traded Nash to them for cheap, and every talked about how much it was helping the Lakers, not knowing in reality Nash was having major issues and in return the trade really helped us out more. I think this is one of those deals. We could either take a chance on a player @ #4 or grab a guy who went #2 in a better draft, already played a season in the league, and even through playing with a s**t team during Kobe's Farewell Tour, still managed to show signs of potential greatness.

And Lebron in Laker gold is laughable. I think they are one of the teams with the least amount of chance of him signing there. This isnt older guys signing with the Lakers due to Kobe or youngsters from small market teams signing to be a part of the fabled Laker Legacy, this is Lebron. He is different. He dances to the beat of his own drummer (Wade).

You aren't getting it Kerrsed. Since we fleeced them on that Nash trade they likely don't want to trade with this franchise period. They will be weary and McD doesn't lose trades. I guarantee they will ask for the farm and you forget we are in same division/conference!

Second Lebron wants to play with his superfriends and guess what? The Lakers have caspace and young talent (plus the #2 pick) which can be moved for veterans/additional picks/etc. Don't forget about a brand new coach (Walton). What other franchise has that flexibility? New York is stuck with Melo and no young talent/no picks unless you consider Porzingis.

Lebron wants to construct his own team and the Lakers will give him the keys if that means competing. I guess you don't see the writing on the wall.

[weslo1812]

again......why do people think Okafor (specifically), a center who can't stretch the floor, play defense, or rebound, a good fit as a Phoenix Sun? you know, the run and gun fun ones? it's not a match.

Really? We do not have an offensive identity.

Bingo. We havent been those Run & Gun Suns for years. Just because we played a certain way in the past, doesnt mean that we need to continue that way. Look, we had a 2 time MVP as a floor general, all-stars in Amre and Marion and JJ, and WE STILL COULDNT GET IT DONE. GS was able to, but they also have the current MVP, a few of the leagues best shooters, and DEFENDERS. Even then tehy still couldnt get it done this year. Defense wins in this league. The fun Run & Gun Suns are dead and we need to start changing up our system to be more defensive orientated. Get players that fit that scheme. If that slowing down the game like the Spurs, so be it. If thats utilizing more half court sets like Cleveland, so be it. Sure Run & Gun was exciting and fun to watch, but you know whats better? WINNING.

EXACTLY!!!! Defense Defense DEFENSE!!!! That's what wins championships. You look at the Spurs, the team that has been the model of consistency and success in the NBA over the last 17 years or so. They've been a team that's always been great defensivley. They have been good offensively as well, but defense has been the name of their game. And they've only won 5 championships and been to numerous western conferencefinals and NBA Finals in that 17 year period or so. Sexy fast pace high scoring games are fun and all, but it obviously fell short time after time with Dantoni. It was all offense and little to no defense. It's gonna be sad if we try to go back down that path again with the team we're trying to assemble now. I've said it already, but untill we start playing some kind of legitimate defense with some sort of consistency there will not be any hope of an NBA title coming to PHX anytime soon.

[JoRain]

Just like Bender's floor is Jan Vesely.

Just like Hield's floor is Jimmer.

Just like Murray's floor is Jerryd Bayless.

I mean, this draft is sorely lacking in high-end prospects. There are exactly two. Everyone from 3-8 has a significant flaw in their game and 8-35 is an absolute cluster.

Chriss and Bender have the highest ceilings in my opinion. The "winner" of this draft is going to be the team that can coach up one of those two.

Bender's floor is definitely not Vesely. Just because of his skills and BBIQ his floor I think something like Motejunas. Other than that, you're spot on.

Also, after watching some Washington's games, I wan't Chriss even less. Despite his shooting ability and athleticism, I fear he might not even be a good offensive player in NBA, not even mentioning the defense. His BBIQ on both ends of the floor is terrible. He doesn't feel his teammates and has no idea of spacing. He follows the ball even if it's on the other side of the court and looses all perception on things around him, like his teammates cutting or getting out for 3 and quite a few times is in their way. Also, after screens he often doesn't make himself available to ball handler neither rolling out for a popping out for a 3 nor cutting to basket, just doesn't do anything and get's caught in the middle, forcing his ball handler to take it himself. The same thing on defense, he get's caught too much watching the ball with no awareness of what's happening around him, which is another reason he's such a bad defensive rebounder and why he finds himself out of position almost all the time, making stupid fouls trying to recover, if you can call it that. Not sure at all that you can teach a feel for the game or awareness on both ends of the floor, especially with things happening so fast in modern NBA. So, despite all his tools and shooting, I am not confident at all, that he can make it in the league, at the very least, he's a very long term project. So I hope the Suns pass on him at 4.

on the other hand, as somebody mentioned, Suns aren't winning anything anytime soon, so wouldn't be the biggest tragedy if we took him - could help getting better lottery picks in the future, but damn it would be frustrating.

Who do you want at 4 if Bender is off the board?

At this point, I might prefer to take a flyer on someone like Skal, who might become version of Channing Frye, though I'll admit, i haven't seen him as much, so my opinion about him is not completely spoiled.

[pelifan]

Sorry obviously I know less about your team than any of you, but wanted to give input as I think the Suns are in a very interesting situation. if Bender isn't there I wouldn't reach. Take BPA/longterm fit with Book and be done with it. To me that guy is Dunn. Forget about the backcourt logjam. Doesn't matter. Gotta get the guy you think can be a star. If Dunn and Booker become John Wall and Ray Allen trading or making Bledsoe or Knight 15 million dollar backups really doesn't matter at that point.

[Kerrsed]

Really? We do not have an offensive identity.

Bingo. We havent been those Run & Gun Suns for years. Just because we played a certain way in the past, doesnt mean that we need to continue that way. Look, we had a 2 time MVP as a floor general, all-stars in Amre and Marion and JJ, and WE STILL COULDNT GET IT DONE. GS was able to, but they also have the current MVP, a few of the leagues best shooters, and DEFENDERS. Even then tehy still couldnt get it done this year. Defense wins in this league. The fun Run & Gun Suns are dead and we need to start changing up our system to be more defensive orientated. Get players that fit that scheme. If that slowing down the game like the Spurs, so be it. If thats utilizing more half court sets like Cleveland, so be it. Sure Run & Gun was exciting and fun to watch, but you know whats better? WINNING.

JAHLIL NO DEFENSE! JAHLIL NO GOOD REBOUND! we need rebounding and defense to win championship! right?

also, why oh why would the Sixers talk to us when they could talk to the Celtics?

Dont get me wrong, im in no way justifying going for Okafor, im just agreeing with the fact that we really dont have a team system identity yet.

But also, on the Okafor part, i want Noel, not Jahlil.

They can still trade Okafor for #3.

#4 for Russell
Bledsoe for #8(Skal)/Future 1st
Knight/Tucker for Noel (76ers Draft Simmons & Dunn ----Dunn/Knight/Covington/Simmons/Embiid)
Draft BPA @ #13 and Maker @ #28 and Payton II @ #34
Max Contract for Batum

Russell/Payton II
Booker/Goodwin
Batum/Warren
Noel/Skal/Maker
Len/Chandler

[SarcasticSun]

Chriss, Brown, or trade the pick for something good. That's where I'm at.

Well that's a first.

Err.. and add Dunn to that mix as well.
1. Chriss
2. Dunn
3. Trade
4. Brown

[SunsFanSSOL]

http://www.csnne.com/video/welsh-noel-okafor-play-possible-celtics-76ers-deal

Tim Welsh (Celtics reporter) says Dragan Bender was "awful" in his workout in front of NBA teams overseas, said no team that was there was impressed.

[SarcasticSun]

I really cooled off on Hield. While I think he will be a solid player in this league, he just isn't what we need on this team and won't fit next to Booker.

I still don't like Bender. His frame terrifies me. He will be abused in the paint, I think he is an injury waiting to happen.

Chriss seems to have very coachable problems. I look at Chriss and I see an elite athlete with a solid shot. His only problems seem to be mental errors. Now this could be a major problem if he were Mike Beasley.. but I think he actually has passion for this game unlike Beasley. Sometimes you just have to go for the boom/bust guy though and Chriss is that. We haven't really drafted a boom/bust since... goodwin? Not to mention we have had the stiffest, most unathletic pf's in the league since amare left. (Turkey glue, anyone?)

[Krush32]

Dragan Bender is Boris Diaw.