Deandre Ayton news and discussion

[King4Day]

This will be worrisome as it relates to DA's extension.
He'll push for at least 20-30mil more per year. I fully expect his agent to demand max and if we don't give it to him, he'll wait till next year. I think it'd be a mistake if he does but that's what I see happening.

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[sunsbg]

Wow, a real mature message board complaint, asking about the other posters age. Son, let me tell you that is not a very mature reaction.

If our legit complaints get the excuses like: "cp3 not respecting him" and such, we old geezers might turn to a bit of humour you know, kiddo? That's what adults might do.

And if you'll be old enough you might excercise comprehensive reading too, that way you'll really understand others posts, and will not think - for example - that we are complaining becouse he is not Luka, which wasn't the subject in the last year or so.

Now if you promise me that you won't make such childish posts in the future I might get you something nice for your sweet 16 in a couple of years.

Hopefully you don't forget your promise, old man.

For every "Ayton played only 5 good games all season" there will be "cp3 not respecting him" posts, I hope you realize it.

[Bogyo]

Wow, a real mature message board complaint, asking about the other posters age. Son, let me tell you that is not a very mature reaction.

If our legit complaints get the excuses like: "cp3 not respecting him" and such, we old geezers might turn to a bit of humour you know, kiddo? That's what adults might do.

And if you'll be old enough you might excercise comprehensive reading too, that way you'll really understand others posts, and will not think - for example - that we are complaining becouse he is not Luka, which wasn't the subject in the last year or so.

Now if you promise me that you won't make such childish posts in the future I might get you something nice for your sweet 16 in a couple of years.

Hopefully you don't forget your promise, old man.

For every "Ayton played only 5 good games all season" there will be "cp3 not respecting him" posts, I hope you realize it.

You really made me laugh, thank you! If most all of our responses would be like these we'd have far less problems in the world.
Kudos to you, and an and1.

[Slim Charless]

I must say Bogyo, Revived, Frank and rest of the Ayton haters here are nothing like Ayton haters from phx-suns.net. There is some fella over there who wants to trade DA for... Tristan Thompson. Some other guy wants to start Dario Saric at C full time. SMH.

See - THAT is hating. What we are saying here is the (sad) reality. Even though we read the whole "Holy book of basketball excuses - extended version 3.0 by DA's friends and family" about 3-4 times on every page here. Truth is - he just ain't it.

Yeah but then I read proposals to trade DA for Nikola Vucevic and I'm like, You mean that guy DA completely shut down last time we played? If DA "ain't it", then Vuc ain't ****. I don't even know what fans want from DA anymore. If they want to find out what it's like to have Jarrett Allen or Vuc instead of DA, we could just stop switching the 5 on D. You won't see any plays with Harden blowing by Capella because you'll never see Capella guarding the Beard.

Wack.

I'll respond to this one since I brought the Vuc trade up. I'm not saying Ayton needs to moved now and is trash. I think everyone on this forum would agree that Vuc makes our offense better this year and in the short term. For the window that we have CP3 (3 years roughly) we can't really mess around and wait. Now, will our D suffer? It's possible, but Vuc is still a presence in the paint-he just can't switch onto the guards as easily as Ayton does.

Ultimately, like I've mentioned before I think that we'd have to wait till the summer to make this move. We need to see if DA can take it up a notch over the next 30 games and playoffs.

Lastly, I'd point out that the trade I made up, also brought us Cole Anthony who would be our PG of the future, and give us roughly 70 million coming off the cap at the same time. That would allow for some major FAs to be signed when cp3 and Vuc are done.

[bwgood77]

I must say Bogyo, Revived, Frank and rest of the Ayton haters here are nothing like Ayton haters from phx-suns.net. There is some fella over there who wants to trade DA for... Tristan Thompson. Some other guy wants to start Dario Saric at C full time. SMH.

See - THAT is hating. What we are saying here is the (sad) reality. Even though we read the whole "Holy book of basketball excuses - extended version 3.0 by DA's friends and family" about 3-4 times on every page here. Truth is - he just ain't it.

Yeah but then I read proposals to trade DA for Nikola Vucevic and I'm like, You mean that guy DA completely shut down last time we played? If DA "ain't it", then Vuc ain't ****. I don't even know what fans want from DA anymore. If they want to find out what it's like to have Jarrett Allen or Vuc instead of DA, we could just stop switching the 5 on D. You won't see any plays with Harden blowing by Capella because you'll never see Capella guarding the Beard.

Wack.

Yeah, there seem to be many people who seem to like Ayton's development at his age, particularly when looking at other Cs coming into the league in his class, but they tire of posting because of all the nonsense and continued criticism of the guy when ignoring other problems and consistency of other players on the team.

Simply put, even at his young age, he has become more important than box scores indicate due to gravity, screening to help the almighty Booker get better throughout the year and get open shots (as well as Paul), both who had slow starts, making shots tougher on everyone by contesting them, and being the only solid rebounder despite still needing to work on box outs.

Just because Bogyo likes to continually call out people disrespectfully for telling it like they see it, and by no means excusing anything since we simply see it differently and don't feel a need to excuse a damn thing...outside of maybe not having a proper offseason to help development and conditioning and adjusting to a new PG and style which Book obviously had to as well.

[bwgood77]

I must say Bogyo, Revived, Frank and rest of the Ayton haters here are nothing like Ayton haters from phx-suns.net. There is some fella over there who wants to trade DA for... Tristan Thompson. Some other guy wants to start Dario Saric at C full time. SMH.

There are certainly worse ones elsewhere than the majority here. Funny thing I was the main one in year one when he legit was bad...really bad..but some just look at PPG.

There are a full straight on trolls here about it who only post negative stuff about him. One certainly not worth responding to anymore and another has gotten a tad better. Revived has always been negative about everything, and likes to post the most negative stuff he can find from twitter, etc.

I know I annoy many by actually being too positive and defending him, and not because I don't think he has issues he needs to work on, but because I think he takes such an unfair amount of criticism for any team issues and it's one of the most bizarre things I've seen as a Suns fan.

[Wilber85]

Bogyo doesnt understand basketball, and neither do these fans if they think we will get better with an ayton trade.

Ayton trade will truly rely on adding Saric or Crowder and will make our depth suffer. Then on top of it, you all are asking him to be traded for offensive Centers who cant play a lick of defense.

Name 1 center that has been tasked to guard Leonard, Lebron, etc. Can you name one?

[bwgood77]

My perception of DA has changed over the season. Right now I consider him the 2nd most important player on the team because of his defense and rebounding. Without DA we would be a below average defensive team hovering around 8th in the West. It would have to be a very generous offer for me to consider trading him at this point. Although it makes me cringe when I see some of his mistakes and lack of fire but if it is true that bigs take longer to develop, then there is hope in 2-3 years DA will turn into Dominayton

Just go look at guy's #s in their 2nd/3rd seasons like Chandler, Jordan..guys mentioned as playing better with CP3 on offense yet scored fewer points...despite people saying he is tentative on offense.

Other guys like Steven Adams took awhile. Almost EVERY C to come into the league outside of Jokic and Towns and AD (if you consider him a C) were not good for about 5 years. Embiid was in his few games in year 3 after being injured his first two and really was good in year 4.

People ignore his draft class and how putrid most of the Cs are. Robinson while good at blocking shots doesn't even start on an ok team. Bamba stinks. WCJ stinks. Bagley his horrid on D. These are all guys who were really loved. JJJ can't rebound and his D is much worse than expected...only shoots 3s.

People wanted that C too..thank God we didn't take someone else. Disappointment relative to Doncic? Of course. But how many guys are 1st team all NBA in their 2nd year. Almost none outside of guys like LeBron.

[bwgood77]

My perception of DA has changed over the season. Right now I consider him the 2nd most important player on the team because of his defense and rebounding. Without DA we would be a below average defensive team hovering around 8th in the West. It would have to be a very generous offer for me to consider trading him at this point. Although it makes me cringe when I see some of his mistakes and lack of fire but if it is true that bigs take longer to develop, then there is hope in 2-3 years DA will turn into Dominayton

I think if Ayton played in the 90s he might average close to 30 PPG. Dude's touch within 8 feet of the basket is remarkable.

One thing that bothers me about the way we've handled Ayton is that we don't keep going to him if he makes a mistake or misses a shot. Often it's one miss, he's out of the offense. Players seem to get frustrated when he fails to catch a pass, but no one seems to get frustrated when Booker goes on a turnover-spree.

Really, it's their personalities. Booker is fearless, insistent, fiery. Ayton is almost sheepish.

I get stoked when I see Ayton pumped and energetic. That game against MEM where JV went off against everyone but DA... there were a few plays in a row where JV ran into Ayton and just bounced off him. Dude is strong. Then there was that dunk against the Lakers last night where he got up like he rarely does - head at the rim. The inconsistency is kinda nuts. I just wish there was a way to flip that switch to the on position all the time. I dare say might be favorites to win it all if THAT Deandre were guaranteed to show up every night.

.... Of course, you just know the refs would take him out of at least a couple games - or a whole series, if their handlers felt like it. F this league.

SSOL he would have averaged 20+ easy with the fast paced spread offense and been far better than Ayton on D and rebounding. I loved Ayton too but he had lots of defensive problems. Many liked it better with Diaw in there the year Ayton was out like people like it better with Dario in there, despite him playing mostly like crap lately and most of last year. Though that's why he got a cheap contract, especially after a terrible year 3, much much worse than Ayton's.

[Wilber85]

My perception of DA has changed over the season. Right now I consider him the 2nd most important player on the team because of his defense and rebounding. Without DA we would be a below average defensive team hovering around 8th in the West. It would have to be a very generous offer for me to consider trading him at this point. Although it makes me cringe when I see some of his mistakes and lack of fire but if it is true that bigs take longer to develop, then there is hope in 2-3 years DA will turn into Dominayton

Just go look at guy's #s in their 2nd/3rd seasons like Chandler, Jordan..guys mentioned as playing better with CP3 on offense yet scored fewer points...despite people saying he is tentative on offense.

Other guys like Steven Adams took awhile. Almost EVERY C to come into the league outside of Jokic and Towns and AD (if you consider him a C) were not good for about 5 years. Embiid was in his few games in year 3 after being injured his first two and really was good in year 4.

People ignore his draft class and how putrid most of the Cs are. Robinson while good at blocking shots doesn't even start on an ok team. Bamba stinks. WCJ stinks. Bagley his horrid on D. These are all guys who were really loved. JJJ can't rebound and his D is much worse than expected...only shoots 3s.

People wanted that C too..thank God we didn't take someone else. Disappointment relative to Doncic? Of course. But how many guys are 1st team all NBA in their 2nd year. Almost none outside of guys like LeBron.

We are better than the Mav's and tbh I am not sure if booker would have been happy with how much usage Doncic would have had.

Doncic was drafted in a good spot, that led to his success, never know if he would be the same guy here.

We are in 3rd place! Ya'll still crying.

[bwgood77]

This will be worrisome as it relates to DA's extension.
He'll push for at least 20-30mil more per year. I fully expect his agent to demand max and if we don't give it to him, he'll wait till next year. I think it'd be a mistake if he does but that's what I see happening.

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Personally I am not sure extension is the right move unless you can get him for $20-$22 million a year or less, however, I imagine if you wait, with new tv deals coming, his likely big development next year, etc, he will command a lot more next year.

The difference of $5 million a year, what we spend on someone like Carter, is not worth too much concern, or worth letting him walk or trade for pennies on the dollar.

There will be tons of teams after him if we go that route. He has a skill set few Cs do today, particularly for his age.

CP3's contract, if he sticks around, will likely be cut in half at least, as well. Only one PG played anything close to what they did previously at age 37, and that's Stockton.

[sunsbg]

We are better than the Mav's and tbh I am not sure if booker would have been happy with how much usage Doncic would have had.

Doncic was drafted in a good spot, that led to his success, never know if he would be the same guy here.

We are in 3rd place! Ya'll still crying.

Doncic would be very successful on any team, no question about that, but no way Booker is happy if he had the same usage playing together on the Suns. Actually lurking on Mavs board it seems there is already a rift between him and Porzingis after the later took 7 shots in last game and it appears they don't like each other that much. That with KP being a C who doesn't need the ball in his hands to be effective. So in 3 years the Mavs released many players for not being good enough to play with Luka and now KP will be probably on the block soon enough. In addition to his ball-dominance I don't think this is a good sign for other star players who would potentially join as FAs.

[sunsbg]

Simply put, even at his young age, he has become more important than box scores indicate due to gravity, screening to help the almighty Booker get better throughout the year and get open shots (as well as Paul), both who had slow starts, making shots tougher on everyone by contesting them, and being the only solid rebounder despite still needing to work on box outs.

Not sure if this PIE stat on NBA.com has much value as it seems to favor big man(comparing it for a few players), but Ayton is 12.8 while Booker 12.4. So yeah, I don't get this claim Ayton has 1 good game out of 5 and being that inconsistent according to many.

[Wilber85]

We are better than the Mav's and tbh I am not sure if booker would have been happy with how much usage Doncic would have had.

Doncic was drafted in a good spot, that led to his success, never know if he would be the same guy here.

We are in 3rd place! Ya'll still crying.

Doncic would be very successful on any team, no question about that, but no way Booker is happy if he had the same usage playing together on the Suns. Actually lurking on Mavs board it seems there is already a rift between him and Porzingis after the later took 7 shots in last game and it appears they don't like each other that much. That with KP being a C who doesn't need the ball in his hands to be effective. So in 3 years the Mavs released many players for not being good enough to play with Luka and now KP will be probably on the block soon enough. In addition to his ball-dominance I don't think this is a good sign for other players who would potentially join as FAs.

That is my thoughts. I am glad Luka is having success, I was a doubter and I admitted he woke me up, especially living in Texas and seeing a lot of his play. Players need the right fit and the right team to be successful. Doncic landed in the right spot.

I think Booker would have been upset not being the leader, the guy, and the usage would be in Doncic favor. Then we would have never got CP3, and wonder who would be our starting 4/5

[Mulhollanddrive]

I do like Ayton's improved game iq when it comes to shot selection.

Establishing a base for an efficient / impact game and then building out his star factor from there.

[Wilber85]

Ayton also has a higher Per than Booker.
Ayton is top 25 in WS and booker isn't
Ayton is top 10 in DWS
Ayton is top 10 OReb %
Ayton is top 10 Dreb %
Ayton is top 20 TS %

All while his usage is #99 at 19% and he still is avg 14/12 !!!!

You guys still complain!!!!

Do you want him top 5 in all of those and avg 24/12 and the suns to be undefeated?

[Mulhollanddrive]

Capela, Kanter, Valanciunas, Zubac, Allen have similiar metrics, it just depends if you're after an elite role player or someone who can change games on their own.

[Jdiddy701]

I’m definitely in the category as someone who is a bit hard on DA. I just don’t think he cares and takes the game serious. His defense is a bit overrated on this board. He’s a good 1 on 1 defender but terrible help side defender. Like BW mentioned, he freezes way too often on both sides of the court. I don’t trust him in crunch times and think he will hurt us in the playoffs. I think the Suns know this and hopefully will get help in the next couple of days or next week during the buyout market. It’s pretty clear that CP3, Booker, JJ and Monty are not happy with DA.

Trust me, I would LOVE to be wrong about DA. I want nothing more than for him to play to his full potential. I’m really rooting for him, he’s so important to our team. Suns don’t go far in the playoffs with him playing at 60% and also don’t stand a chance without him. If he’s giving it his all, we are a tough team to beat in a 7 game series.


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[Kerrsed]

Before Ayton even played a single game for the Suns he had haters. There was absolutely no reason to hate him, but people did. Season 1 people complained that he was being very KAT-like, all offense with no effort whatsoever on the defensive end of the floor. Ask anyone who watched him at Arizona and they will tell you that thats not part of his game, he is more offensive minded than anything else.

Season 2 he stepped it up on both ends of the floor, increasing his defensive impact along with offense. He increased his shot attempts, his scoring, his rebounds, and his blocks. People still complained about him being lackadaisical. Complained about his defensive effort.

Season 3. Aytons defense increases even more. Now playing as more of a defensive minded C more than anything. Taking less shots than his previous 2 seasons but hitting them at a great efficiency. Explained in that great interview that he is doing what Coach is asking, dedicating himself more to the defensive end and worrying less about being a focal point on offense because we already got guys that can score the ball with ease. People still arnt happy.

Aytons League Rankings on the season: (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2021_leaders.html)

#5 in Offensive Rebounds
#8 in Defensive Rebounds
#9 in Total Rebounds
#11 in Rebounds Per Game
#6 in Total Rebound Pct.
#19 in Blocks
#20 in True Shooting Pct.
#14 in Effective Field Goal Pct.
#14 in Defensive Rating
#8 in Defensive Win Shares

And in almost all of those categories he is the youngest player in the top 20. 150 games into his career and he is ranked a top 20 player in 10 different categories (13 if you also include the individual Offensive/Defensive Rebound Pct that i left out). Yet some people are so incensed to hate and ignore any good that comes from him because he isnt Luka.

So now lets discuss the Luka Aspect. The NBA Golden Boy. The one who was anointed before even stepping foot on an NBA court. Look, we have all seen him play, and yeah, he's pretty damn good, but we have also seen just how much of bullsh*t league this is by seeing all the stuff that the league allows Doncic to get away with. Barely touch him? Thats a foul! He plows into the paint like a bowling ball banging into people, Thats a foul on them! Somehow 90% of the fouls on him are in the act of shooting.....yet when you see the replay the act of shooting occurs way way way after the whistle and sometimes not at all. He gets BEYOND superstar calls....while guys like Booker have to be bleeding to get even just the chance to get a whistle. Ayton too! How many times have we seen Ayton get the ball right under the basket covered by 2 or 3 guys, bring the ball down and it gets stripped? Happens all the time and never (NEVER NEVER NEVER) does he get a whistle. Do you think that its a clean strip everytime? Hell no! Damn near impossible to have 3 defenders all go for the ball and none of them make contact. Ayton haters just go, "Ugh, hands of stone, cant do sh*t". Problem is Ayton doesnt know how to sell the foul (Or more appropriately SHOW that there was contact). He doesnt do the "OMG WTF" arm flail that others do to get the call. But back to Luka, look, if there was no Luka would the Ayton Haters still hate? Highly doubtful. That measuring stick wouldnt be there and without the comparisons all you have is a great super solid young big bursting with talent.

"But Kerrsed, he looks bored on the court, i dont see that fire, i want that fire!". Does that really matter when he is still being super effective? I mean i dont see that aggression or fire when i watch a guy like Kawhi play. Stone faced, not yelling or getting excited over stuffs, just getting the job done. No dramatics like Amare and his chest beating and and one yelling, just efficient and methodical like Tim Duncan.

"But Kerrsed, he his hands suck ass, he constantly turns the ball over and drops passes, hands of stone needs to stop bringing the ball down low!". Under 2 turnovers a game. Yes, despite all the complaints and haters making it sound like he is a TO machine, its less than 2 a game. Yet you look around the league at other leading C's like Embiid, Adebayo, Jokic, Sabonis, Gobert, and they all average around 3 turnovers a game. So dont buy into the hater-hype of Ayton turning the ball over all the time.

Fact is Ayton is doing exactly what we have asked him to do......AND ITS WORKING! He's playing top notch defense and taking less shots while being more efficient with his shots. And we are winning! Boy are we winning! Winning so much that posters cant complain about the team so they have to nitpick things and blow stuff way out of proportion so they can complain about stuff.

It irks the hell out of me that a bad game for Ayton is still close to a double double with solid defense and he gets torn to shreds, but the boards favorite Bridges gets a pass because he was drafted #10. People complain about Ayton not being aggressive but turn a blind eye to Bridges when he only takes 4 shots a game despite his high percentages. A bad Bridges game is 6 points 3 assists, a rebound and a steal......while shooting 50%. Where the fire? Wheres the aggressiveness? Oh, that doesnt matter because of the defense he provides? Funny, Ayton doesnt get that same excuse.

3rd season in the league (6 years after picking up his first basketball). Already headed to being a top C in the league on a competitive and winning basketball team. Haters gonna Hate.



But the haters are going to have to find new angles to hate on because their old ones aren't working or valid!

[Wilber85]

"But Kerrsed, he his hands suck ass, he constantly turns the ball over and drops passes, hands of stone needs to stop bringing the ball down low!". Under 2 turnovers a game. Yes, despite all the complaints and haters making it sound like he is a TO machine, its less than 2 a game. Yet you look around the league at other leading C's like Embiid, Adebayo, Jokic, Sabonis, Gobert, and they all average around 3 turnovers a game. So dont buy into the hater-hype of Ayton turning the ball over all the time.

Love this!!!!!! People do not do research and just assume! And1 for you