2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V

Slim Charless · Post #681 » by **Slim Charless** » Sun Mar 30, 2025 7:49 pm

FTR, personally I would take that Durant deal. Jabari/Cam/Reed and 1 of our 1sts back is a pretty decent deal in my eye.

Booker deal......hard pass.

BobbieL · Post #682 » by **BobbieL** » Sun Mar 30, 2025 7:59 pm

Slim Charless wrote:
BobbieL wrote:
Saberestar wrote:I want to keep them too.

With the current CBA, the lack of draft picks, not being able to make more than 1:1 trades because of apron levels - what is the peak do you see for a team with Booker and Durant?

Even if they stretch Beal - which I think is a quantum huge mistake -- I don't see a team better than the 6th seed as I just don't know how they get better. And that is why I am in the blow it up - if the 6th is the best you have, thats not good enough. Maybe for Ishbia its enough to win games, fill the arena and not be half empty watching a terrible team. But he said it was to win a championship and thats not happening

If you trade them, you have to actually get things of value though. That was GoK's and mine points above linked to that trade you posted. Do not juszt give them away for the sake of rebuilding and cause you want a fresh start. You need to try and negotiate an actual good deal and get good things back from whoever you trade Booker to.

That Bleacher Report trade is basically taking whatever the 1st thing someone offers you.

That is a fair point -- I think the Pincus trade was light on draft picks to the Suns

But there is something to consider - if you hold on to Booker too long, the value continues to drop. I personally don't think Booker will be more attractive next year unless the Durant trade gets them a boat load more than anybody expects.

Ghost of Kleine · Post #683 » by **Ghost of Kleine** » Sun Mar 30, 2025 9:41 pm

Slim Charless wrote:
BobbieL wrote:
Saberestar wrote:I want to keep them too.

With the current CBA, the lack of draft picks, not being able to make more than 1:1 trades because of apron levels - what is the peak do you see for a team with Booker and Durant?

Even if they stretch Beal - which I think is a quantum huge mistake -- I don't see a team better than the 6th seed as I just don't know how they get better. And that is why I am in the blow it up - if the 6th is the best you have, thats not good enough. Maybe for Ishbia its enough to win games, fill the arena and not be half empty watching a terrible team. But he said it was to win a championship and thats not happening

If you trade them, you have to actually get things of value though. That was GoK's and mine points above linked to that trade you posted. Do not juszt give them away for the sake of rebuilding and cause you want a fresh start. You need to try and negotiate an actual good deal and get good things back from whoever you trade Booker to.

That Bleacher Report trade is basically taking whatever the 1st thing someone offers you.

Evrything that Slims' saying X 10000000000000!!!

Ideally, we'd trade.................................................................................................................................................................
- KD to Houston for some combination of D Brooks/J Smith Jr/ Landale/ Whitmore/ PHX 25' 1st/ PHX 27' 1st.
- Booker to Detroit for Stewart/ Ivey/ Thompson or Holland/ Klintman/ DET 26' 1st/ DET 28' 1st/ DET 2030 1st.

Beal/ D Brooks/ Thompson/ J Smith Jr/ Richards.
J Ivey/ G Allen/R Dunn/ J Landale/ I Stewart.
Gillespie/ Whitmore / O'neale/ Bol Bol/ Ighodaro.
** Klintman and our 3 draft prospects in the G League for development.

And the picks: (With these trades, we'd have a super athletic, potent young core, 6 1sts, and a 2nd to work with and around $33 million in potential cap space to work with).

Spoiler:

The above trades were done more towards building a young, potent, super athletic, physical, gritty player-centric core package than obtaining premium picks. But if we instead prioritized picks over players, then we could instead opt to just do this....................................................................................................................................................................................

- KD to OKC for Hartenstein/ Joe/ Dieng/ Mitchell/ LAC 25' 1st (21st pick)/ MIA 26' 1st (unprotected).
** Trading Hartenstein gives them big-time cap space to extend all of J Williams, Holmgren, Wallace, etc, AND absorb Shais' supermax extension once KD expires the following summer. KD can then jump to Dallas, Miami, or Golden State if he likes?? So this KD rental premise makes sense for both teams.

- Booker to Houston for J Green/ Landale/ Eason/ Whitmore/ PHX 25' 1st/ PHX 27' 1st/ PHX 29' 1st. This trade gives us more premium picks than a high-end player package.

Beal/ J Green/ Allen/ Eason / Hartenstein.
A Mitchell/ I Joe/ R Dunn/J Landale/ N Richards.
Gillespie/ Whitmore/ O'neale/ Ighodaro/ Landale.

And the picks: ( after this trade, we'd have 7- 1sts to work with and a great mix of hard-working vets and young upside talent too.

Spoiler:

BobbieL · Post #684 » by **BobbieL** » Sun Mar 30, 2025 10:30 pm

Ghost of Kleine wrote:
Slim Charless wrote:
BobbieL wrote:
With the current CBA, the lack of draft picks, not being able to make more than 1:1 trades because of apron levels - what is the peak do you see for a team with Booker and Durant?

Even if they stretch Beal - which I think is a quantum huge mistake -- I don't see a team better than the 6th seed as I just don't know how they get better. And that is why I am in the blow it up - if the 6th is the best you have, thats not good enough. Maybe for Ishbia its enough to win games, fill the arena and not be half empty watching a terrible team. But he said it was to win a championship and thats not happening

If you trade them, you have to actually get things of value though. That was GoK's and mine points above linked to that trade you posted. Do not juszt give them away for the sake of rebuilding and cause you want a fresh start. You need to try and negotiate an actual good deal and get good things back from whoever you trade Booker to.

That Bleacher Report trade is basically taking whatever the 1st thing someone offers you.

Evrything that Slims' saying X 10000000000000!!!

Ideally, we'd trade.................................................................................................................................................................
- KD to Houston for some combination of D Brooks/J Smith Jr/ Landale/ Whitmore/ PHX 25' 1st/ PHX 27' 1st.
- Booker to Detroit for Stewart/ Ivey/ Thompson or Holland/ Klintman/ DET 26' 1st/ DET 28' 1st/ DET 2030 1st.

Beal/ D Brooks/ Thompson/ J Smith Jr/ Richards.
J Ivey/ G Allen/R Dunn/ J Landale/ I Stewart.
Gillespie/ Whitmore / O'neale/ Bol Bol/ Ighodaro.
** Klintman and our 3 draft prospects in the G League for development.

And the picks: (With these trades, we'd have a super athletic, potent young core, 6 1sts, and a 2nd to work with and around $33 million in potential cap space to work with).

Spoiler:
- PHX 25' 1st from Houston (12th pick)
- CLE 25' 1st (29th pick).
- DEN 25' 2nd (55th pick).
- DET 26' 1st.
- PHX 27' 1st from Houston.
- CLE 27' 1st.
- DET 28' 1st from Detroit.
- PHX 29' 1st from Houston.
- CLE 29' 1st.
- 2030 1st from Detroit.

The above trades were done more towards building a young, potent, super athletic, physical, gritty player-centric core package than obtaining premium picks. But if we instead prioritized picks over players, then we could instead opt to just do this....................................................................................................................................................................................

- KD to OKC for Hartenstein/ Joe/ Dieng/ Mitchell/ LAC 25' 1st (21st pick)/ MIA 26' 1st (unprotected).
** Trading Hartenstein gives them big-time cap space to extend all of J Williams, Holmgren, Wallace, etc, AND absorb Shais' supermax extension once KD expires the following summer. KD can then jump to Dallas, Miami, or Golden State if he likes?? So this KD rental premise makes sense for both teams.

- Booker to Houston for J Green/ Landale/ Eason/ Whitmore/ PHX 25' 1st/ PHX 27' 1st/ PHX 29' 1st. This trade gives us more premium picks than a high-end player package.

Beal/ J Green/ Allen/ Eason / Hartenstein.
A Mitchell/ I Joe/ R Dunn/J Landale/ N Richards.
Gillespie/ Whitmore/ O'neale/ Ighodaro/ Landale.

And the picks: ( after this trade, we'd have 7- 1sts to work with and a great mix of hard-working vets and young upside talent too.

Spoiler:
- PHX 25' 1st from Houston (12th pick).
- LAC 25' 1st from OKC (21st pick).
- CLE 25' 1st ( 29th pick).
- DEN 2nd (55th pick).
- MIA 26' 1st from OKC (unprotected).
- PHX 27' 1st from Houston.
- CLE 27' 1st.
- PHX 29' 1st from Houston.
- CLE 29' 1st.

I trust you and Slim to make the trades of Booker and Durant the best possible trades

and if you can somehow move O"neale and Allen - all the better!

Ghost of Kleine · Post #685 » by **Ghost of Kleine** » Sun Mar 30, 2025 11:01 pm

Slim Charless wrote:FTR, personally I would take that Durant deal. Jabari/Cam/Reed and 1 of our 1sts back is a pretty decent deal in my eye.

Booker deal......hard pass.

Agreed! The KD Houston trade I'd take but wouldn't love at all! But I'd begrudgingly take it because both Smith Jr and Whitmore are solid! And then I'd most likely look to flip Sheppard elsewhere in a package with Allen or O'neale. Perhaps to one of Orlando, Charlotte, or maybe Utah? ..........................................

1- Orlando-
Allen/ Sheppard for Bidatze/ Harris (expiring)/ Josephs expiring)/ DEN 25' 1st (25th pick).
25- Yaxel Lendeborg or Alex Condon.
29- Boogie Fland.

2- Charlotte-
Allen/Sheppard for Nurkic (19 million expiring)/ CHO 25' 2nd (33rd pick)/ CHO 26' 2nd/ GS 26' 2nd.
29- Boogie Fland.
33- Carter Bryant.

3- Washington-
Sheppard for PHX 25' 2nd (42nd pick) / DET 25' 2nd (48th pick).
42- Rocco Zisarsky or Ryan Kalkbrenner.
48- Sion James.
55- Maxime Raynaud.

4- Sheppard/ O'neale for Sexton (18 million expiring)/ DAL 25' 2nd (46th pick)/ LAC 25' 2nd (50th pick).
29- Carter Bryant (** If Condon doesn't fall).
46- Maxime Raynaud.
55- Cedric Coward or John Tonje.

5- Brooklyn-
Sheppard for NYK 25' 1st (26th pick)/ ATL 26' 2nd/ MEM 28' 2nd.
26- Alex Condon (**if Lendeborg doesn't fall).
29- Boogie Fland.

Hitachi77 · Post #686 » by **Hitachi77** » Sun Mar 30, 2025 11:56 pm

I am terrible at keeping track of all of our picks, and not clear on all the rules. If we trade to get our own pick back for 2025, and we miss the playoffs, would we not get a lottery pick back ? What’s the situation with our picks on the even years? We swapped them twice or something? Is there any way to get our own pick back for 2026 when we will almost certainly be high lottery? Getting 2027 back seems like a priority as well, and I see it in the trades above.

Sunsdeuce · Post #687 » by **Sunsdeuce** » Mon Mar 31, 2025 12:48 am

Sunsdeuce wrote:
thamadkant wrote:
SunsRback4Good wrote:
Yes, 2nd best in the west when we started the season 9-2 in first couple of weeks. But after that we been playing like garbage, but kind of picked it up last few weeks chasing for the final play-in spot.

Suns have not picked it up.

Cavs are on a losing streak and likely playing at 3rd gear.

Biggest change for the suns is Dunn is getting minutes again and he's producing.

But the team still sucks compared to the legit contenders. Stats and eye test shows it. You can't rely on KD averaging 40ppg

Thank you for pointing that out. Cavs have been playing like trash the last 4 games and their record over those last 4 games prove it. Yes they have a fantastic record but they are going through a rough spell right now. Hard to crown the Suns as “back” when the wins have come from either slumping teams or bad teams.

Hard for me to take away anything from the last 5 games the suns played. Suns lost to the lakers without Lebron. And beat a bunch a scrubs and a slumping team. Not smart to judge or come to a conclusion about this team over the last 5 games.

Come back to me after the next four games (Bucks, especially the Celtics, Wolves, Rockets). If the suns sweep or even give 3-1 over the next four, let’s all talk about this team and talk about stats with and without players in the rotation.

Welp about to be 1-3.

BobbieL · Post #688 » by **BobbieL** » Mon Mar 31, 2025 1:52 am

Sunsdeuce wrote:
Sunsdeuce wrote:
thamadkant wrote:
Suns have not picked it up.

Cavs are on a losing streak and likely playing at 3rd gear.

Biggest change for the suns is Dunn is getting minutes again and he's producing.

But the team still sucks compared to the legit contenders. Stats and eye test shows it. You can't rely on KD averaging 40ppg

Thank you for pointing that out. Cavs have been playing like trash the last 4 games and their record over those last 4 games prove it. Yes they have a fantastic record but they are going through a rough spell right now. Hard to crown the Suns as “back” when the wins have come from either slumping teams or bad teams.

Hard for me to take away anything from the last 5 games the suns played. Suns lost to the lakers without Lebron. And beat a bunch a scrubs and a slumping team. Not smart to judge or come to a conclusion about this team over the last 5 games.

Come back to me after the next four games (Bucks, especially the Celtics, Wolves, Rockets). If the suns sweep or even give 3-1 over the next four, let’s all talk about this team and talk about stats with and without players in the rotation.

Welp about to be 1-3.

1.5 games behind Sacramento if the score holds

Ghost of Kleine · Post #689 » by **Ghost of Kleine** » Mon Mar 31, 2025 2:26 am

Read on Twitter

Sunsdeuce · Post #690 » by **Sunsdeuce** » Mon Mar 31, 2025 2:32 am

Anyone who wants to keep KD or Book is unserious

BobbieL · Post #691 » by **BobbieL** » Mon Mar 31, 2025 2:56 am

Sunsdeuce wrote:Anyone who wants to keep KD or Book is unserious

I just think it’s unrealistic to winning a title. If somebody can present something rational of thought, I am open to reading it

I just don’t see Booker being the guy to carry a team without picks, cap flexibility so trade him now before the inevitable

SunsRback4Good · Post #692 » by **SunsRback4Good** » Mon Mar 31, 2025 3:21 am

Slim Charless · Post #693 » by **Slim Charless** » Mon Mar 31, 2025 3:39 am

BobbieL wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
Slim Charless wrote:
If you trade them, you have to actually get things of value though. That was GoK's and mine points above linked to that trade you posted. Do not juszt give them away for the sake of rebuilding and cause you want a fresh start. You need to try and negotiate an actual good deal and get good things back from whoever you trade Booker to.

That Bleacher Report trade is basically taking whatever the 1st thing someone offers you.

Evrything that Slims' saying X 10000000000000!!!

Ideally, we'd trade.................................................................................................................................................................
- KD to Houston for some combination of D Brooks/J Smith Jr/ Landale/ Whitmore/ PHX 25' 1st/ PHX 27' 1st.
- Booker to Detroit for Stewart/ Ivey/ Thompson or Holland/ Klintman/ DET 26' 1st/ DET 28' 1st/ DET 2030 1st.

Beal/ D Brooks/ Thompson/ J Smith Jr/ Richards.
J Ivey/ G Allen/R Dunn/ J Landale/ I Stewart.
Gillespie/ Whitmore / O'neale/ Bol Bol/ Ighodaro.
** Klintman and our 3 draft prospects in the G League for development.

And the picks: (With these trades, we'd have a super athletic, potent young core, 6 1sts, and a 2nd to work with and around $33 million in potential cap space to work with).

Spoiler:
- PHX 25' 1st from Houston (12th pick)
- CLE 25' 1st (29th pick).
- DEN 25' 2nd (55th pick).
- DET 26' 1st.
- PHX 27' 1st from Houston.
- CLE 27' 1st.
- DET 28' 1st from Detroit.
- PHX 29' 1st from Houston.
- CLE 29' 1st.
- 2030 1st from Detroit.

The above trades were done more towards building a young, potent, super athletic, physical, gritty player-centric core package than obtaining premium picks. But if we instead prioritized picks over players, then we could instead opt to just do this....................................................................................................................................................................................

- KD to OKC for Hartenstein/ Joe/ Dieng/ Mitchell/ LAC 25' 1st (21st pick)/ MIA 26' 1st (unprotected).
** Trading Hartenstein gives them big-time cap space to extend all of J Williams, Holmgren, Wallace, etc, AND absorb Shais' supermax extension once KD expires the following summer. KD can then jump to Dallas, Miami, or Golden State if he likes?? So this KD rental premise makes sense for both teams.

- Booker to Houston for J Green/ Landale/ Eason/ Whitmore/ PHX 25' 1st/ PHX 27' 1st/ PHX 29' 1st. This trade gives us more premium picks than a high-end player package.

Beal/ J Green/ Allen/ Eason / Hartenstein.
A Mitchell/ I Joe/ R Dunn/J Landale/ N Richards.
Gillespie/ Whitmore/ O'neale/ Ighodaro/ Landale.

And the picks: ( after this trade, we'd have 7- 1sts to work with and a great mix of hard-working vets and young upside talent too.

Spoiler:
- PHX 25' 1st from Houston (12th pick).
- LAC 25' 1st from OKC (21st pick).
- CLE 25' 1st ( 29th pick).
- DEN 2nd (55th pick).
- MIA 26' 1st from OKC (unprotected).
- PHX 27' 1st from Houston.
- CLE 27' 1st.
- PHX 29' 1st from Houston.
- CLE 29' 1st.

I trust you and Slim to make the trades of Booker and Durant the best possible trades

and if you can somehow move O"neale and Allen - all the better!

If someone is traded to DET or SAS then we can make them take Greyson or Royce. Maybe Miami too.

Ghost of Kleine · Post #694 » by **Ghost of Kleine** » Mon Mar 31, 2025 4:00 am

Sunsdeuce wrote:Anyone who wants to keep KD or Book is unserious

Don't you mean "unbothered"??? :wink:

Ghost of Kleine · Post #695 » by **Ghost of Kleine** » Mon Mar 31, 2025 4:19 am

Slim Charless wrote:
BobbieL wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
Evrything that Slims' saying X 10000000000000!!!

Ideally, we'd trade.................................................................................................................................................................
- KD to Houston for some combination of D Brooks/J Smith Jr/ Landale/ Whitmore/ PHX 25' 1st/ PHX 27' 1st.
- Booker to Detroit for Stewart/ Ivey/ Thompson or Holland/ Klintman/ DET 26' 1st/ DET 28' 1st/ DET 2030 1st.

Beal/ D Brooks/ Thompson/ J Smith Jr/ Richards.
J Ivey/ G Allen/R Dunn/ J Landale/ I Stewart.
Gillespie/ Whitmore / O'neale/ Bol Bol/ Ighodaro.
** Klintman and our 3 draft prospects in the G League for development.

And the picks: (With these trades, we'd have a super athletic, potent young core, 6 1sts, and a 2nd to work with and around $33 million in potential cap space to work with).

Spoiler:
- PHX 25' 1st from Houston (12th pick)
- CLE 25' 1st (29th pick).
- DEN 25' 2nd (55th pick).
- DET 26' 1st.
- PHX 27' 1st from Houston.
- CLE 27' 1st.
- DET 28' 1st from Detroit.
- PHX 29' 1st from Houston.
- CLE 29' 1st.
- 2030 1st from Detroit.

The above trades were done more towards building a young, potent, super athletic, physical, gritty player-centric core package than obtaining premium picks. But if we instead prioritized picks over players, then we could instead opt to just do this....................................................................................................................................................................................

- KD to OKC for Hartenstein/ Joe/ Dieng/ Mitchell/ LAC 25' 1st (21st pick)/ MIA 26' 1st (unprotected).
** Trading Hartenstein gives them big-time cap space to extend all of J Williams, Holmgren, Wallace, etc, AND absorb Shais' supermax extension once KD expires the following summer. KD can then jump to Dallas, Miami, or Golden State if he likes?? So this KD rental premise makes sense for both teams.

- Booker to Houston for J Green/ Landale/ Eason/ Whitmore/ PHX 25' 1st/ PHX 27' 1st/ PHX 29' 1st. This trade gives us more premium picks than a high-end player package.

Beal/ J Green/ Allen/ Eason / Hartenstein.
A Mitchell/ I Joe/ R Dunn/J Landale/ N Richards.
Gillespie/ Whitmore/ O'neale/ Ighodaro/ Landale.

And the picks: ( after this trade, we'd have 7- 1sts to work with and a great mix of hard-working vets and young upside talent too.

Spoiler:
- PHX 25' 1st from Houston (12th pick).
- LAC 25' 1st from OKC (21st pick).
- CLE 25' 1st ( 29th pick).
- DEN 2nd (55th pick).
- MIA 26' 1st from OKC (unprotected).
- PHX 27' 1st from Houston.
- CLE 27' 1st.
- PHX 29' 1st from Houston.
- CLE 29' 1st.

I trust you and Slim to make the trades of Booker and Durant the best possible trades

and if you can somehow move O"neale and Allen - all the better!

If someone is traded to DET or SAS then we can make them take Greyson or Royce. Maybe Miami too.

Personally, I'd trade:

- Allen to Orlando for Bidatze. If Orlando doesn't want him, then I'm trading him back to Charlotte for Grant Williams/ CHO 25' 2nd (33rd pick)/ ATL 26' 2nd.
- O'neale to San Antonio for Sochan/ SAS 25' 2nd (38th pick). And if the Spurs won't take him, I'll then trade him to Brooklyn for the 36th pick or to Toronto for Abadji and the 39th pick.

Revived · Post #696 » by **Revived** » Mon Mar 31, 2025 4:29 am

Read on Twitter

Never forget this.

Ghost of Kleine · Post #697 » by **Ghost of Kleine** » Mon Mar 31, 2025 4:57 am

Revived wrote:

Read on Twitter

Never forget this.

Ishbia reflecting on all of the decisions he's made!

Ishbia and Bukstein trying to figure out our summer moves!
:banghead:

sunsbum · Post #698 » by **sunsbum** » Mon Mar 31, 2025 4:59 am

Revived wrote:

Read on Twitter

Never forget this.

While this is obvious, who seriously follows these trash twitter accounts?

garrick · Post #699 » by **garrick** » Mon Mar 31, 2025 5:36 am

Ghost of Kleine wrote:
Revived wrote:

Read on Twitter

Never forget this.

Ishbia reflecting on all of the decisions he's made!

Ishbia and Bukstein trying to figure out our summer moves!

I didn't think it was possible to find an even worse owner and cringelord than Vivek Ranadive but Mat Ishbia has managed to overnight grant himself that title as the worst owner in NBA league history. :banghead:

Revived · Post #700 » by **Revived** » Mon Mar 31, 2025 5:54 am

sunsbum wrote:
Revived wrote:

Read on Twitter

Never forget this.

While this is obvious, who seriously follows these trash twitter accounts?

Only 1.9 million people. So basically people that are interested in seeing basketball content.

This page in particular became so big that someone made a dupe account of them called “NBA Centel”. That page blew up with funny but made-up fictional quotes from players. Became such a big thing that when they got banned from twitter like a month ago, everyone (including your very own official Suns twitter page) tweeted out in support of bringing Centel back to twitter. Wasn’t just Suns, I think like 5-10 other NBA teams all tweeted out in support of them.

So anyway yeah, NBA Central probably the #1 twitter page for basketball content.