The Official 2025 Offseason Thread #4 Free Agency Opens!

[WeekapaugGroove]

Hot take? Is it crazy that I think maybe I would have rather made this Jay Huff trade than the Mark Williams one?

Then Jock Landale must have improved quite a bit if Memphis preferred him over Huff.

[dremill24]

Spoiler:

You are misrepresenting my thoughts and posts, though I know many probably agree with #1.

1. I was actually a huge Ayton critic early because I did not like him at AZ and he was terrible on defense. So much so that some people got so angry with me that they personally attacked me multiple times.

He did start to improve some in year 2 he defensively, and averaged more rebounds, and while still critical, I was fairly happy with the imrpovement, though for some reason he regressed efficiency wise on offense.

In year 3 he really started to improve defensively a ton, and also offensively finishing at the rim and shooting the midrange. His TS% skyrocketed from like 54% to 63% as he developed the hook shot, etc. He was a huge reason we went to the finals. I was shocked at the improvement from years 2-3.

He was in the top 10 in contested shots for 2 years, once for 2s and 3s.

Remember, this is when Chris Paul was saying he would get the bad, assuming he'd get a max extension, but he didn't.

Year 4...now he started to regress on defense, though his offense even improved more, as he shot like 80% at the rim, 59% from 3-10 ft and 55% from 10-15 ft. His TS% was 63.4%

However, in year 4 he took MASSIVE criticism from fans, so I felt it was in excess and defended him, because he had ended up a lot better player than I expected when we drafted him, and much of the criticism was dumb, like not dunking enough, or all his rebounds went right to him (now sure, some do, but that is the case with every player. Yes, some are better at contested rebound but he was always in double digits).

Anyway, he took massive blame for everything, kind of like Beal does now, even though he was still great offensively, had a lot of gravity where defenders would double and triple him opening up shooters, etc.

Then in year 5 he definitely regressed, but that was also when the whole team except him and Bridges were injured and we traded everyone mid season, so there was really no continuity.

Anyway, he had his faults, but the criticism was WAY overboard. Booker was pretty much one of the worst defenders in the NBA his first 5 years but never took any flack for not even putting in an effort there.

2. I don't care if we keep Beal or not, but I don't want to give up another one of our few assets to get rid of him OR stretch him and turn his problem into 5 years of $20 million cap hits. I'd rather just buy him out or let him come off the bench. He's still a good player. Not what he was, but good.

3. If we were competitive, I wouldn't want to trade Book, but we won't be (I don't understand how this can really be debated), so I don't want to watch Book spend another 5 or 6 years leading a crappy team. He won't; want it either, eventually. I don't care if we trade him now. But I think it makes sense within a year, before the 2027 season, and preferably to Houston.

Yes, I think we can get a massive package for him. I think he is better than Bane he got 4 1sts. KD was never going to get a lot given he will be 37 next season and is injury prone. I never understood why people thought he would fetch a lot. With KD AND Book we won 36 games. Neither were injured a ton...I know you think it was entirely Bud's fault, but that's not the case. Maybe some of it, but certainly not all of it. He took Atlanta to the ECF, winning 60 games, and the Bucks to the finals.

4. I agree. We are not trading Book now. I anticipate we will trade him within the next 2 years. Preferably by next summer. Just my opinion. You don't have to like it. Doesn't matter to me. But I watched him lead a lot of bad teams and I don't want that any more and would rather get a big package for him, particularly since we don't control any of our picks until 2032.

He won't sell a lot of tickets. Did people enjoy watching this year? Maybe some, and I will enjoy next year more but not because I want to see more of Booker, but I am excited to have some youth. I don't really know why even the biggest Booker fans want him to stay and not get a chance to be a playoff guy for a good while if he stays long term, if ever. Even in the best case scenario, with massive injuries to other teams stars, and we squeeze in, we are not going to win a playoff series.

But with the state of the west, we will be very hard pressed to win 30 games. Why want to watch Book go through that? I understand that many want to live in a world we have Book and somehow win playoff series, even next year, but that's far from reality. He deserves to go somewhere he can at least compete for a title or have deep playoff runs.

5. I don't want to trade Booker to free up money or keep Bradley Beal. Not sure where you got that.

6. When your best two players lead you to 36 wins.

7. I would also prefer we trade Richards and O'Neale and even Allen for picks. Though I don't think they'd get us picks. Maybe 2nds and an avg player. The only way we can get under the apron is to take back less money though, which requires a team to absorb extra salary, and only a couple teams have cap space I think. So probably not a lot of options.

We could also do something like waive and stretch O'Neale. He makes over $10 million a year, and about $32 million over the next 3 years, so we would stretch him for 7 years and it would only be like a $4.6 million a year hit per year. That saves us like 5.55 million this year.

Or Allen, who makes over $55 million the next 3 years, could be waived and stretched and it would be a $7.77 million cap hit for 7 years, but his cap hit would go down from $16, 87 million to $7.77 millon, or $9 million in cap savings this year...and would increase the next 2 years, to savings of $10.4 million and $11.6 million.

Of course these cap hits for so many years going forward are not ideal, but with a rising cap, they are fairly minimal, and may get us under the 2nd apron.

dremill, correct me if I'm wrong and you can't stretch someone over 7 years...but I know it's double their remaining years +1 year...I'm not aware of a max timeframe.

Stretching a 3yr deal over 7yrs is fine. Hell, we're doing it with Little now

I do think those guys could be traded to avoid needing to stretch tho.

They could be traded, but if the goal to get under the 2nd apron can another team absorb that much salary? If so, how much? I don't think that Allen contract is very good.Seems like a lot of money. I think I like O'Neale better and he's a little over half the price.

How much do we need to shed to get under the 2nd apron?

Can you stretch and waive a guy where you picked up his team option? I only ask in the case the extra $3.3 million in savings + a $9 million+ saving by waiving and stretching Allen would do it.

I don't think we really need either player, and if we trade Allen we will have to take someone else back who probably isn't any more useful, unless there is a PF that makes around the same as him and the team needs a shooter. But we need a 4 who can hit 3s since our Cs can't.

It depends on who you're trading them to. I would like to think that somebody would just take Richards into their MLE/BAE/TPE since hes pretty cheap.

I dont think anyone is taking Allen free and clear but hes still a good rotation piece so perhaps you can trade him to a team below the first apron for a lesser player who makes less money where you can cut like $3-7mil.

I think Royce is similar but is on a more manageable deal so maybe you can get off more immediate salary with him.

You'd have to piece meal together a few deals like that to get under the second apron. They're looking like ~$15-16mil over right now, so you'd have to shed at least that, plus however much more you need to be under to stay under after you make other moves.

Sure you can stretch a guy after picking up his team option technically, tho I cant think of many scenarios where you would (just decline the TO?). I guess it'd be an option if all of your planning went to sh** (or no planning in the first place).

[dremill24]

Hot take? Is it crazy that I think maybe I would have rather made this Jay Huff trade than the Mark Williams one?

Then Jock Landale must have improved quite a bit if Memphis preferred him over Huff.

Its all in the aggregate too, more likely they preferred Landale plus two (1.5?) 2nds over Huff. Just like my statement being I'd potentially rather have Huff at the cost of 1.5 2nds than Williams (and all the DNPs) at the cost of two 1sts (and knowing you have a serviceable backup C already plus Maluach coming in).

I was only half serious. I dont love the Williams gamble but the Huff thing was likely not on the table at that time anyway so its not like they actually picked one over the other or had the chance to.

[sunsbum]

3. If we were competitive, I wouldn't want to trade Book, but we won't be (I don't understand how this can really be debated), so I don't want to watch Book spend another 5 or 6 years leading a crappy team. He won't; want it either, eventually. I don't care if we trade him now. But I think it makes sense within a year, before the 2027 season, and preferably to Houston.

Yes, I think we can get a massive package for him. I think he is better than Bane he got 4 1sts. KD was never going to get a lot given he will be 37 next season and is injury prone. I never understood why people thought he would fetch a lot. With KD AND Book we won 36 games. Neither were injured a ton...I know you think it was entirely Bud's fault, but that's not the case. Maybe some of it, but certainly not all of it. He took Atlanta to the ECF, winning 60 games, and the Bucks to the finals.

4. I agree. We are not trading Book now. I anticipate we will trade him within the next 2 years. Preferably by next summer. Just my opinion. You don't have to like it. Doesn't matter to me. But I watched him lead a lot of bad teams and I don't want that any more and would rather get a big package for him, particularly since we don't control any of our picks until 2032.

He won't sell a lot of tickets. Did people enjoy watching this year? Maybe some, and I will enjoy next year more but not because I want to see more of Booker, but I am excited to have some youth. I don't really know why even the biggest Booker fans want him to stay and not get a chance to be a playoff guy for a good while if he stays long term, if ever. Even in the best case scenario, with massive injuries to other teams stars, and we squeeze in, we are not going to win a playoff series.

But with the state of the west, we will be very hard pressed to win 30 games. Why want to watch Book go through that? I understand that many want to live in a world we have Book and somehow win playoff series, even next year, but that's far from reality. He deserves to go somewhere he can at least compete for a title or have deep playoff runs.

I know I might be overly optimistic, but I wouldn't say the Suns are for sure not making the playoffs. Having some motivated and hungry young players makes anything possible.
How good are the Mavs going to be with D'Angelo Russell starting for most of the season before Kyrie returns? The Pelicans appear to be actively tanking and of course the Jazz are too. The Kings will probably try to be competitive, but I can't see the Suns being worse than them, but I suppose it is possible. The Wolves lost a bit of depth, the Grizzlies made some drastic changes to their starting lineup.
The only surefire teams that should be top of the Western Conference is the Thunder, Nuggets, and likely Rockets.

I think the Mavs could easily be 3rd. Kyrie is projected to be back in January. DLo isn't great but a frontcourt rotation of AD/Lively/Gafford with and a 3/4 rotation of AD/PJ Washington/Flagg.

Then Klay has regressed but he can still get hot shooting. With Kyrie I think they could compete with anyone. With DLo it's their one weak spot, but other guys can handle, including Flagg and AD, as well as Max Christie and Naji Marshall.

They also have Caleb Martin. They have another rookie PG on a 2 way, Nembhard...the brother of the one in Indy, though he's small.

I mean, do you really think our roster is even close to their's?

What is our projected starting lineup? Most teams won't play rookies much. I hope we play ours quite a bit.

But Jalen Green, Book, Mark Williams...is Dunn starting at 4. Is Book starting at 3? Or are we going with one of Royce or Allen again? Our bench will likely be mostly rookies. I guess Nigel Hayes may start?

I liked our draft and I like adding Mark Williams, but I don't think they nearly make up the difference of losing KD.

We actually have a lot more talent if we do keep Beal. Other teams would LOVE to have him as a 6th man. Some would probably start him. His contrat is awful but that doesn't mean he doesn't have talent or play hard on both ends...and without KD he could maybe step up.

I think we'd have a better chance of being better than the LA teams than Dallas, but a team with LeBron and Luka and another with Harden and Kawhi are tough if healthy. Though they likely both will deal with injuries.

But that still leaves the Thunder, Rockets, Wolves, Nuggets, Warriors, Spurs, Grizzlies and Mavs. I suppose you maybe think aside from Dallas, we may be better than the Spurs and Grizzlies too?

Funny thing is I was/am going to put up a poll and thought we will have 1 or 2 votes for 60+ wins...Qwigglez and maybe Raising AZ, but now that I mention, probably more.

phx def feels like they could overachieve this year. I don’t know about playoffs but I imagine they could win at least as many games as they did last year. Dallas doesn’t really impress me, I just see a roster full of dudes in the twighlight of their prime all dealing with perpetual injuries and then a side of cooper Flagg who probably won’t be able to lead this team for another 3 years anyways

[bwgood77]

Spoiler:

Stretching a 3yr deal over 7yrs is fine. Hell, we're doing it with Little now

I do think those guys could be traded to avoid needing to stretch tho.

They could be traded, but if the goal to get under the 2nd apron can another team absorb that much salary? If so, how much? I don't think that Allen contract is very good.Seems like a lot of money. I think I like O'Neale better and he's a little over half the price.

How much do we need to shed to get under the 2nd apron?

Can you stretch and waive a guy where you picked up his team option? I only ask in the case the extra $3.3 million in savings + a $9 million+ saving by waiving and stretching Allen would do it.

I don't think we really need either player, and if we trade Allen we will have to take someone else back who probably isn't any more useful, unless there is a PF that makes around the same as him and the team needs a shooter. But we need a 4 who can hit 3s since our Cs can't.

It depends on who you're trading them to. I would like to think that somebody would just take Richards into their MLE/BAE/TPE since hes pretty cheap.

I dont think anyone is taking Allen free and clear but hes still a good rotation piece so perhaps you can trade him to a team below the first apron for a lesser player who makes less money where you can cut like $3-7mil.

I think Royce is similar but is on a more manageable deal so maybe you can get off more immediate salary with him.

You'd have to piece meal together a few deals like that to get under the second apron. They're looking like ~$15-16mil over right now, so you'd have to shed at least that, plus however much more you need to be under to stay under after you make other moves.

Sure you can stretch a guy after picking up his team option technically, tho I cant think of many scenarios where you would (just decline the TO?). I guess it'd be an option if all of your planning went to sh** (or no planning in the first place).

Yeah, I guess that was a dumb question but they probably thought he could be used as an asset somehow. Though I guess it's good to have another C when all you have is a starter that has averaged playing 35 games a year and a rookie. I guess Oso too.

[garrick]

3. If we were competitive, I wouldn't want to trade Book, but we won't be (I don't understand how this can really be debated), so I don't want to watch Book spend another 5 or 6 years leading a crappy team. He won't; want it either, eventually. I don't care if we trade him now. But I think it makes sense within a year, before the 2027 season, and preferably to Houston.

Yes, I think we can get a massive package for him. I think he is better than Bane he got 4 1sts. KD was never going to get a lot given he will be 37 next season and is injury prone. I never understood why people thought he would fetch a lot. With KD AND Book we won 36 games. Neither were injured a ton...I know you think it was entirely Bud's fault, but that's not the case. Maybe some of it, but certainly not all of it. He took Atlanta to the ECF, winning 60 games, and the Bucks to the finals.

4. I agree. We are not trading Book now. I anticipate we will trade him within the next 2 years. Preferably by next summer. Just my opinion. You don't have to like it. Doesn't matter to me. But I watched him lead a lot of bad teams and I don't want that any more and would rather get a big package for him, particularly since we don't control any of our picks until 2032.

He won't sell a lot of tickets. Did people enjoy watching this year? Maybe some, and I will enjoy next year more but not because I want to see more of Booker, but I am excited to have some youth. I don't really know why even the biggest Booker fans want him to stay and not get a chance to be a playoff guy for a good while if he stays long term, if ever. Even in the best case scenario, with massive injuries to other teams stars, and we squeeze in, we are not going to win a playoff series.

But with the state of the west, we will be very hard pressed to win 30 games. Why want to watch Book go through that? I understand that many want to live in a world we have Book and somehow win playoff series, even next year, but that's far from reality. He deserves to go somewhere he can at least compete for a title or have deep playoff runs.

I know I might be overly optimistic, but I wouldn't say the Suns are for sure not making the playoffs. Having some motivated and hungry young players makes anything possible.
How good are the Mavs going to be with D'Angelo Russell starting for most of the season before Kyrie returns? The Pelicans appear to be actively tanking and of course the Jazz are too. The Kings will probably try to be competitive, but I can't see the Suns being worse than them, but I suppose it is possible. The Wolves lost a bit of depth, the Grizzlies made some drastic changes to their starting lineup.
The only surefire teams that should be top of the Western Conference is the Thunder, Nuggets, and likely Rockets.

I think the Mavs could easily be 3rd. Kyrie is projected to be back in January. DLo isn't great but a frontcourt rotation of AD/Lively/Gafford with and a 3/4 rotation of AD/PJ Washington/Flagg.

Then Klay has regressed but he can still get hot shooting. With Kyrie I think they could compete with anyone. With DLo it's their one weak spot, but other guys can handle, including Flagg and AD, as well as Max Christie and Naji Marshall.

They also have Caleb Martin. They have another rookie PG on a 2 way, Nembhard...the brother of the one in Indy, though he's small.

I mean, do you really think our roster is even close to their's?

What is our projected starting lineup? Most teams won't play rookies much. I hope we play ours quite a bit.

But Jalen Green, Book, Mark Williams...is Dunn starting at 4. Is Book starting at 3? Or are we going with one of Royce or Allen again? Our bench will likely be mostly rookies. I guess Nigel Hayes may start?

I liked our draft and I like adding Mark Williams, but I don't think they nearly make up the difference of losing KD.

We actually have a lot more talent if we do keep Beal. Other teams would LOVE to have him as a 6th man. Some would probably start him. His contrat is awful but that doesn't mean he doesn't have talent or play hard on both ends...and without KD he could maybe step up.

I think we'd have a better chance of being better than the LA teams than Dallas, but a team with LeBron and Luka and another with Harden and Kawhi are tough if healthy. Though they likely both will deal with injuries.

But that still leaves the Thunder, Rockets, Wolves, Nuggets, Warriors, Spurs, Grizzlies and Mavs. I suppose you maybe think aside from Dallas, we may be better than the Spurs and Grizzlies too?

Funny thing is I was/am going to put up a poll and thought we will have 1 or 2 votes for 60+ wins...Qwigglez and maybe Raising AZ, but now that I mention, probably more.

Agreed.

We have a massive hole at PG and PF and expecting our 2nd round pick in Fleming to start and be productive from day one is unrealistic not can we expect to slide Brooks to PF full time against big teams like OKC and the Wolves.

Having young rookies to root for is going to make watching this team a little bit more enjoyable but we are going to lose a lot of games this year unless we have some other major trades lined up that brings in more vets and brings more size.

[Qwigglez]

I think the Mavs could easily be 3rd. Kyrie is projected to be back in January. DLo isn't great but a frontcourt rotation of AD/Lively/Gafford with and a 3/4 rotation of AD/PJ Washington/Flagg.

Then Klay has regressed but he can still get hot shooting. With Kyrie I think they could compete with anyone. With DLo it's their one weak spot, but other guys can handle, including Flagg and AD, as well as Max Christie and Naji Marshall.

They also have Caleb Martin. They have another rookie PG on a 2 way, Nembhard...the brother of the one in Indy, though he's small.

I mean, do you really think our roster is even close to their's?

What is our projected starting lineup? Most teams won't play rookies much. I hope we play ours quite a bit.

But Jalen Green, Book, Mark Williams...is Dunn starting at 4. Is Book starting at 3? Or are we going with one of Royce or Allen again? Our bench will likely be mostly rookies. I guess Nigel Hayes may start?

I liked our draft and I like adding Mark Williams, but I don't think they nearly make up the difference of losing KD.

We actually have a lot more talent if we do keep Beal. Other teams would LOVE to have him as a 6th man. Some would probably start him. His contrat is awful but that doesn't mean he doesn't have talent or play hard on both ends...and without KD he could maybe step up.

I think we'd have a better chance of being better than the LA teams than Dallas, but a team with LeBron and Luka and another with Harden and Kawhi are tough if healthy. Though they likely both will deal with injuries.

But that still leaves the Thunder, Rockets, Wolves, Nuggets, Warriors, Spurs, Grizzlies and Mavs. I suppose you maybe think aside from Dallas, we may be better than the Spurs and Grizzlies too?

Funny thing is I was/am going to put up a poll and thought we will have 1 or 2 votes for 60+ wins...Qwigglez and maybe Raising AZ, but now that I mention, probably more.

I got the Suns winning around 44 games.
I don't think the Mavs are very good without a quality PG. Lively and Gafford can't do much besides grab rebounds, they have absolutely no post game. AD missed 31 games, Lively & Gafford both missed time, and overall they don't have the most durable players in the league. I'd be shocked if the Mavs were 3rd in the West.

I think losing KD is addition by subtraction. He just wasn't a great leader on the court.

I think the Suns could be right there with the Wolves, Spurs, Grizzlies, Warriors, LA teams, and Mavs. I got Thunder, Nuggets, and Rockets as the top 3 teams in the West. 4th to 10th will probably be a blood bath.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Seems a bit premature to be judging the off-season and making win total predictions. Shrug.

[bullsaficianado]

I think losing KD is addition by subtraction. He just wasn't a great leader on the court.

I think the Suns could be right there with the Wolves, Spurs, Grizzlies, Warriors, LA teams, and Mavs. I got Thunder, Nuggets, and Rockets as the top 3 teams in the West. 4th to 10th will probably be a blood bath.

I agree with this. We will be battling it out for the play in spot most likely if Booker stays healthy. Spurs are definitely going to be entering the playoff picture in the West this year.

[Qwigglez]

I think losing KD is addition by subtraction. He just wasn't a great leader on the court.

I think the Suns could be right there with the Wolves, Spurs, Grizzlies, Warriors, LA teams, and Mavs. I got Thunder, Nuggets, and Rockets as the top 3 teams in the West. 4th to 10th will probably be a blood bath.

I agree with this. We will be battling it out for the play in spot most likely if Booker stays healthy. Spurs are definitely going to be entering the playoff picture in the West this year.

Yeah, I got Spurs battling, I just don't have them top 3 yet. Who knows if Wemby is good to go yet. And I want to see how their backcourt dynamic works. I'm not pegging them an elite team just because of Wemby when their 3 and 4 spot still have a lot of questions.

[sunsbg]

A play-in team is the ceiling, but hard to say what is the floor. Fit at back court is questionable and the front court is mostly young players, so a lot of question marks overall.

[SunsRback4Good]

A play-in team is the ceiling, but hard to say what is the floor. Fit at back court is questionable and the front court is mostly young players, so a lot of question marks overall.

I love question marks without expectations I can watch this team for next decade and be super duper happy. Play in or bottom 5 worst team is not a huge difference I’ll enjoy the fruits of our loins.

[sunskerr]

Tbh if huff pans out that is a steal for Indy...not saying Huff is a guaranteed hooper but there's a decent nonzero chance that's definitely worth burning a second round pick. he has to work on not fouling though and is a poor rebounder if I recall right.

[Saberestar]

Interesting stuff.

Barry Jackson (who covers the Heat) said yesterday that a good player who is interested in the Heat is gonna be available pretty soon.

Too many questions, negative comments and he finally deleted the tweet.

He probably was talking about Beal. We will know more about it in the next couple of days.

[Bogyo]

The fact that Whitmore was traded for two 2nds kinda proves that this FO isnt brilliant in negotiations either... SMH... we seem to be in it neck deep, and will probably stay in it for the next 5ish years minimum...

[Saberestar]

The fact that Whitmore was traded for two 2nds kinda proves that this FO isnt brilliant in negotiations either... SMH... we seem to be in it neck deep, and will probably stay in it for the next 5ish years minimum...

It's not the case with this particular player.
Gambo talked about it after the trade. The Rockets offered him in the KD's trade but we didn't want him.

The Suns preferred more 2nds on the package
over him. They didn't want him because of his
character/personality/locker room stuff.

Gambo said that he talked to
someone that knows him personally, and he
told him that Whitmore "is a bad guy."

A couple weeks later he is traded for just a couple 2nds to a terrible team... that proves that the story was true.

[Bogyo]

The fact that Whitmore was traded for two 2nds kinda proves that this FO isnt brilliant in negotiations either... SMH... we seem to be in it neck deep, and will probably stay in it for the next 5ish years minimum...

It's not the case with this particular player.
Gambo talked about it after the trade. The Rockets offered him in the KD's trade but we didn't want him.

The Suns preferred more 2nds on the package
over him. They didn't want him because of his
character/personality/locker room stuff.

Gambo said that he talked to
someone that knows him personally, and he
told him that Whitmore "is a bad guy."

A couple weeks later he is traded for just a couple 2nds to a terrible team... that proves that the story was true.

We got next to nothing in the KD trade. If we negotiate better, and have him as well in the original package (at least, lets not talk about how we did not manage to get in any of Jabari, Eason, Sheppard, our other picks, etc...) then we could have done the same, and have 2 more seconds. I didnt think he was the second coming or that we should have kept him, etc... but while we are at it - from what I've seen from him, I think there is a good chance he will be having close to the impact that Jalen Green has next year. Dumb athletic chucker who can score in bunches on bad efficency, not a team player, doesnt really play defense, doesnt really pass either - kinda fits the bill, don't it?

[BobbieL]

Interesting stuff.

Barry Jackson (who covers the Heat) said yesterday that a good player who is interested in the Heat is gonna be available pretty soon.

Too many questions, negative comments and he finally deleted the tweet.

He probably was talking about Beal. We will know more about it in the next couple of days.

I am sure the Beal thing will get done in the next couple days. It will be just whether its the two year buyout so to speak or the stretch/waive. My guess, Ishbia will do the s/w as that saves him the most money. But than he will follow it up by overpaying for a person on the TPMLE or maybe even teh MLE or something that offsets the savings and he will still pay the tax to some degree.

[BobbieL]

Spoiler:

Stretching a 3yr deal over 7yrs is fine. Hell, we're doing it with Little now

I do think those guys could be traded to avoid needing to stretch tho.

They could be traded, but if the goal to get under the 2nd apron can another team absorb that much salary? If so, how much? I don't think that Allen contract is very good.Seems like a lot of money. I think I like O'Neale better and he's a little over half the price.

How much do we need to shed to get under the 2nd apron?

Can you stretch and waive a guy where you picked up his team option? I only ask in the case the extra $3.3 million in savings + a $9 million+ saving by waiving and stretching Allen would do it.

I don't think we really need either player, and if we trade Allen we will have to take someone else back who probably isn't any more useful, unless there is a PF that makes around the same as him and the team needs a shooter. But we need a 4 who can hit 3s since our Cs can't.

It depends on who you're trading them to. I would like to think that somebody would just take Richards into their MLE/BAE/TPE since hes pretty cheap.

I dont think anyone is taking Allen free and clear but hes still a good rotation piece so perhaps you can trade him to a team below the first apron for a lesser player who makes less money where you can cut like $3-7mil.

I think Royce is similar but is on a more manageable deal so maybe you can get off more immediate salary with him.

You'd have to piece meal together a few deals like that to get under the second apron. They're looking like ~$15-16mil over right now, so you'd have to shed at least that, plus however much more you need to be under to stay under after you make other moves.

Sure you can stretch a guy after picking up his team option technically, tho I cant think of many scenarios where you would (just decline the TO?). I guess it'd be an option if all of your planning went to sh** (or no planning in the first place).

Suns have until February to get under the apron level for tax purposes. Granted, they can't aggregate salaries until they are under. Hence, besides the cash aspect for Mat - I think they w/s Beal to be able to aggregate Allen and O'Neal. So that $27m going out - what will they bring back is the possible question?

[Ghost of Kleine]

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This key factor would've really made the trade for us! Even at the expense of two less 2nds (what Houston got from Washington for Whitmore).

He's a super athletic, strong wing and potential 20+ point per game scorer if given the opportunity. The trade still turned out really solid for us, but this portion was a whiff on value that should've been a baseline inclusion due to lack of young talent aside from J Green being included.