The One And Only Offseason Thread 3

[gaspar]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/kevinarnovitz/status/489818276906561536[/tweet]
Great read.

Little blurb about the Suns:

More than a couple insiders cited the Phoenix Suns as a managerial success. "They keep acquiring high-value assets," said one general manger, "But the big thing is that they're putting a great product on the floor while they do it. A lot of people in our business forget that part of the job."

[sunsbum]

If Bledsoe waits until the last moment to accept the Suns offer, the Suns can play hardball and drastically reduce their offer (6 mil per year). What can he do? He has no leverage! 1) Accept the CO and become a UFA next year or, 2) sign the Suns lowball offer.

He needs to stop being a greedy little bitch and be happy he has the oportunity to play for Phoenix.

Maybe Bledsoe doesn't like the system the Suns are rolling out? He is a player who is known to value defense, so it is possible he doesn't want to play on a team that runs a gimmick system that relies on living and dying by the 3. Perhaps he doesn't want to play small ball with a two guard lineup and wants to be on a team that values defense, rebounding, and getting your big men involved in the game? The Suns certainly are not doing those things, I truly believe the front office and most fans seem content to play run and gun and simply fight for the playoffs instead of building the team from the ground up, placing some value on the half court setting and defense.

Nice post but it's about the money.

[Zelaznyrules]

If Bledsoe waits until the last moment to accept the Suns offer, the Suns can play hardball and drastically reduce their offer (6 mil per year). What can he do? He has no leverage! 1) Accept the CO and become a UFA next year or, 2) sign the Suns lowball offer.

He needs to stop being a greedy little bitch and be happy he has the oportunity to play for Phoenix.

Maybe Bledsoe doesn't like the system the Suns are rolling out? He is a player who is known to value defense, so it is possible he doesn't want to play on a team that runs a gimmick system that relies on living and dying by the 3. Perhaps he doesn't want to play small ball with a two guard lineup and wants to be on a team that values defense, rebounding, and getting your big men involved in the game? The Suns certainly are not doing those things, I truly believe the front office and most fans seem content to play run and gun and simply fight for the playoffs instead of building the team from the ground up, placing some value on the half court setting and defense.

The Clippers value half court play and defense and he played so well in that system that he was traded for not much more value than Jared Dudley. In the Suns system he played well enough that his agent is reluctant to agree on a contract that most players would jump at. I think you're inventing problems. His problem is he's over a barrel. If he plays to his ability, our offer is almost an insult. He can't afford to gamble on the QO and we don't want to gamble more money than necessary for an injury risk.

[letsgosuns]

I understand the comparison between the Suns backcourt and the championship Pistons team's backcourt with Thomas and Dumars, but those are historical, hall of fame players. I do not know if Dragic and/or Bledsoe will ever do anything like that. Dumars was 1st team All Defense four times, and one time on the second team. Plus he was All NBA three different times. Thomas was first team All NBA three times, and twice on the second team. Then there was the fact that the Pistons had an overall incredibly tough lineup that would basically attack people. The Suns have nothing like that and I highly doubt will turn into that. I do not really see any team ever doing that again with the way the NBA is played today. So while Dragic and Bledsoe are good, you would have to have very high hopes for them if you believe they could turn into a backcourt like Thomas and Dumars. I do not see it, mainly because Dragic is not the defender that Dumars was. At least not at this stage in his career.

[Zelaznyrules]

I understand the comparison between the Suns backcourt and the championship Pistons team's backcourt with Thomas and Dumars, but those are historical, hall of fame players. I do not know if Dragic and/or Bledsoe will ever do anything like that. Dumars was 1st team All Defense four times, and one time on the second team. Plus he was All NBA three different times. Thomas was first team All NBA three times, and twice on the second team. Then there was the fact that the Pistons had an overall incredibly tough lineup that would basically attack people. The Suns have nothing like that and I highly doubt will turn into that. I do not really see any team ever doing that again with the way the NBA is played today. So while Dragic and Bledsoe are good, you would have to have very high hopes for them if you believe they could turn into a backcourt like Thomas and Dumars. I do not see it, mainly because Dragic is not the defender that Dumars was. At least not at this stage in his career.

I just don't see the problem. Turn Len into the best center in the league, an immovable force on defense and a 20 point scorer down low and we are a championship contender with this roster. I don't know how to turn Len into that HOF center but the point is, it won't be our multi-headed guard situation that stops us.

[Sreister]

I understand the comparison between the Suns backcourt and the championship Pistons team's backcourt with Thomas and Dumars, but those are historical, hall of fame players. I do not know if Dragic and/or Bledsoe will ever do anything like that. Dumars was 1st team All Defense four times, and one time on the second team. Plus he was All NBA three different times. Thomas was first team All NBA three times, and twice on the second team. Then there was the fact that the Pistons had an overall incredibly tough lineup that would basically attack people. The Suns have nothing like that and I highly doubt will turn into that. I do not really see any team ever doing that again with the way the NBA is played today. So while Dragic and Bledsoe are good, you would have to have very high hopes for them if you believe they could turn into a backcourt like Thomas and Dumars. I do not see it, mainly because Dragic is not the defender that Dumars was. At least not at this stage in his career.

I just don't see the problem. Turn Len into the best center in the league, an immovable force on defense and a 20 point scorer down low and we are a championship contender with this roster. I don't know how to turn Len into that HOF center but the point is, it won't be our multi-headed guard situation that stops us.

I think we're missing the point that this is a game where you need to have the 5 best "basketball players" on the court. If you can win with 5 "point guards" on the floor, then you do it. Dragic is a basketball player, through and through. Bled can be the same, to some extent. Two play making basketball players working together. Not PG and PG, but two play makers. More and more the league is becoming positionless. We are one of the leaders in that, running with the two that we have.

[sunsbum]

Gays can't get married, marijuana will never be legal, there will never be a "black president", a high octane guard oriented offense can never win a championship. Smell what I'm steping in??

[Sunsdeuce]

Gays can't get married, marijuana will never be legal, there will never be a "black president", a high octane guard oriented offense can never win a championship. Smell what I'm steping in??

So your saying bring a knife to a gun fight.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[sunsbum]

What I'm saying is, if there was any time in NBA history to try, now is as good as any I can think of with the decline of dominant big men.

[RaisingArizona]

If Bledsoe waits until the last moment to accept the Suns offer, the Suns can play hardball and drastically reduce their offer (6 mil per year). What can he do? He has no leverage! 1) Accept the CO and become a UFA next year or, 2) sign the Suns lowball offer.

He needs to stop being a greedy little bitch and be happy he has the oportunity to play for Phoenix.

Maybe Bledsoe doesn't like the system the Suns are rolling out? He is a player who is known to value defense, so it is possible he doesn't want to play on a team that runs a gimmick system that relies on living and dying by the 3. Perhaps he doesn't want to play small ball with a two guard lineup and wants to be on a team that values defense, rebounding, and getting your big men involved in the game? The Suns certainly are not doing those things, I truly believe the front office and most fans seem content to play run and gun and simply fight for the playoffs instead of building the team from the ground up, placing some value on the half court setting and defense.

This is the board you're looking for then viewforum.php?f=30

[sunsbum]

Post padding. Oops.

[Barkley6]

Gays can't get married, marijuana will never be legal, there will never be a "black president", a high octane guard oriented offense can never win a championship. Smell what I'm steping in??

So your saying bring a knife to a gun fight.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

the game is evolving to the point now where skilled big men are becoming the norm. There really aren't many guys left in this league who are plodding methodical post players. So if the game is speeding up, why not try to be the fastest team? There are two ways to play fast, you either have fast players, or you get into your offense quickly. Having two play makers on the floor facilitates both of those goals for the Suns making them a more effective team.

When Dirk Nowitzki was drafted, playing a four man who was primarily a jump shooter and didnt attack the rim wasnt the norm. But Dirk was able to transcend that and has become one of the best players of this era, and has a ring to show for it. Now, the jump shooting 4 is all the rage in the NBA.

Sometimes unconventional works.

[Barkley6]

If Bledsoe waits until the last moment to accept the Suns offer, the Suns can play hardball and drastically reduce their offer (6 mil per year). What can he do? He has no leverage! 1) Accept the CO and become a UFA next year or, 2) sign the Suns lowball offer.

He needs to stop being a greedy little bitch and be happy he has the oportunity to play for Phoenix.

Maybe Bledsoe doesn't like the system the Suns are rolling out? He is a player who is known to value defense, so it is possible he doesn't want to play on a team that runs a gimmick system that relies on living and dying by the 3. Perhaps he doesn't want to play small ball with a two guard lineup and wants to be on a team that values defense, rebounding, and getting your big men involved in the game? The Suns certainly are not doing those things, I truly believe the front office and most fans seem content to play run and gun and simply fight for the playoffs instead of building the team from the ground up, placing some value on the half court setting and defense.

That system he isnt a fan of led him to a career year last season. Also, as much as he might value those things, it's not like he's playing with Amare and Nash. Dragic is a decent defender, Tucker defends well, Plumlee defends well, Kieff has his moments. We're not an anti-defense team like in the D'Antoni years.

[Superbone]

BAAAD Offseason so far for Bledsoe...

Here is a guy that was cagey, aloof and non-committal last season because he was posturing for a BIG payday. The result so far is NO SOUP FOR YOU!

Where did he go wrong?

1) Bad agent advice.
2) Aligning with Lebron's agent has hurt him and he had to wait for Lebron decision.
3) Lebron relationship has done him NO FAVORS. Seriously, if they are buds, why isn't Cleveland calling?
4) He underestimated his injury.
5) He overestimated the market for PGs. No offers from other teams.
6) Suns have been masterful with Isaiah Thomas signing. Insurance and set the market low for Bledsoe.

Bottom Line: There is no max offer in sight for Bledsoe and he is looking at an offer from the Suns which is significantly under what he expected.

What next?

1) He signs for 4 @ 44M with the Suns and is happy / thankful about it.
2) He signs for 4 @ 44M with the Suns and pouts all season.
3) He signs for 4 @ 44M with the Suns and fakes an injury.
4) He takes the qualifying offer and becomes unrestricted next season. VERY risky with knees.
5) Sign and Trade still possible? Maybe?

I'm not sure what to make of the situation. This is a guy who has yet to say that he wants to be here long term.

I don't believe the market improves for Bledsoe. Let's say he takes the QO. That means he plays as a Sun next year as a PG on a team with 2 other really GOOD Point Guards. He may not be the best player on the Suns next year and that will NOT help his value as a UFA. Also, what if he gets injured?

The guy is in a bad, bad place right now and this situation may not end well.

Question: Can he hold out?

Great post! It lays out the situation admirably. I'm sure hoping for option 1. He's never made that kind of money in his life before and it's his first big contract. Go out and prove yourself a max player and maybe it'll go differently next contract.

[ruiner]

Goodbye dreams of Love


[tweet]https://twitter.com/BobCavsinsider/status/489852073807056896[/tweet]

[bwgood77]

Honestly I don't care how long Bledsoe holds out. He is probably smart to do so. For all we know Milwaukee has given him an offer sheet but it isn't enough, so they are trying to trade Ilyasova for a 2nd rounder to clear max room. Or maybe Detroit has told him they may let Monroe walk (or S&T him for a pick), so don't sign yet because we would give you an offer sheet.

The Detroit scenario is unlikely, but the Milwaukee one could be fairly likely.

Other things could happen too.

There is no hurry for him or us, especially if he is demanding a $13-$14 million. At this point we can't budge...we have to wait for them too.

They lose leverage by the day but we don't. They may gain some if a team clears cap space, but that's it, and that would also require him possibly having to go to Milwaukee.

Pekovic held out until mid August last year. The Wolves finally went up to 4/48 on August 13th, and they finally settled on 5/60 the next day.

I guess they had originally started at 4/40, which is probably about where we started.

The Wolves were in ongoing negotiations for most of the summer with their restricted free agent. Previous reports indicated that Saunders had offered a four-year deal worth roughly $48 million, but Pekovic's agent was pushing for $60 million over the same time frame. It seems the two sides met in the middle, as Pekovic will be able to earn $20 million more than the Wolves reportedly originally offered, but he'll now be tied to the Wolves for an extra season.

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/8/14/4 ... mberwolves

The Pekovic deal ended up being an overpay, particularly since him nor Love can guard the rim, and now that they have Dieng, they'd probably be happy to get rid of Pekovic.

I don't really care how long he holds out. I just hope our FO remains firm unless they have to make a decision because of an offer sheet from another team.

[spanishninja]

BAAAD Offseason so far for Bledsoe...

Here is a guy that was cagey, aloof and non-committal last season because he was posturing for a BIG payday. The result so far is NO SOUP FOR YOU!

Where did he go wrong?

1) Bad agent advice.
2) Aligning with Lebron's agent has hurt him and he had to wait for Lebron decision.
3) Lebron relationship has done him NO FAVORS. Seriously, if they are buds, why isn't Cleveland calling?
4) He underestimated his injury.
5) He overestimated the market for PGs. No offers from other teams.
6) Suns have been masterful with Isaiah Thomas signing. Insurance and set the market low for Bledsoe.

Bottom Line: There is no max offer in sight for Bledsoe and he is looking at an offer from the Suns which is significantly under what he expected.

What next?

1) He signs for 4 @ 44M with the Suns and is happy / thankful about it.
2) He signs for 4 @ 44M with the Suns and pouts all season.
3) He signs for 4 @ 44M with the Suns and fakes an injury.
4) He takes the qualifying offer and becomes unrestricted next season. VERY risky with knees.
5) Sign and Trade still possible? Maybe?

I'm not sure what to make of the situation. This is a guy who has yet to say that he wants to be here long term.

I don't believe the market improves for Bledsoe. Let's say he takes the QO. That means he plays as a Sun next year as a PG on a team with 2 other really GOOD Point Guards. He may not be the best player on the Suns next year and that will NOT help his value as a UFA. Also, what if he gets injured?

The guy is in a bad, bad place right now and this situation may not end well.

Question: Can he hold out?

Great post! It lays out the situation admirably. I'm sure hoping for option 1. He's never made that kind of money in his life before and it's his first big contract. Go out and prove yourself a max player and maybe it'll go differently next contract.

I still support the idea of a shorter contract, which could be good for both sides, depending on how it turns out. Bledsoe doesn't turn out as well as we hope, we stop paying him sooner. Bledsoe wants in on the new CBA gravy train, he ends his commitment at that time and tries again to get the new max. Meanwhile both parties would get enough safeguards should things not work out. I think both sides would agree to this.

[RaisingArizona]

Goodbye dreams of Love


[tweet]https://twitter.com/BobCavsinsider/status/489852073807056896[/tweet]

Honestly, I'd prefer this. Not too intent on giving away half of our team and picks for a 1 year McDyess like situation.

[Barkley6]

Goodbye dreams of Love


[tweet]https://twitter.com/BobCavsinsider/status/489852073807056896[/tweet]

Suns need to be the third team! snag those assets baby!

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Goodbye dreams of Love


[tweet]https://twitter.com/BobCavsinsider/status/489852073807056896[/tweet]

And the west remains strong into the foreseeable future. While our dreams of getting that draft pick fade ever further.

I think the Cavs will regret this in time.