Offseason Thread 6: The Not So Mexican Stand-off Continues

[RunDogGun]

The deal will be Waiters for Bledsoe straight up. Mark it down. Its been plan B all along.
Bled's camp is skippered by James, and he wants his lil buddy Gilligan on his Island.

Think about it.... it's the only thing that makes sense. Paul/James says Bledsoap gets a max offer, or he takes the QO.
Suns say we'll see if he gets a max, then might match it, but here is our starting offer....Paul/James says max or QO/walking next yr....... But, .... we have convinced Gilbert .... Suns can have waiters and we'll (Cleve) will take Bledsoap so there is no hard feelings.

I think it may be a done deal already and it may explain the inactivity of the Suns FO concerning Mini-King...who I will then refer to as Twinkie.

Good to see you back/around Johnny VC

I agree that it's good to see JVC again, but as far as your trade, I can't see it happening. Why would the Cavs do this? I'm assuming you're implying Bledsoe signs the QO, and is traded for Dion, because the salaries are similar. But the Cavs won't have Bledsoe's bird rights, will they be able to offer Bledsoe a max deal next year with Irving, James, and Love getting huge salaries?

A sign and trade would work, but it would have to involve more players to get the salaries similar, right?

[RunDogGun]

Never mind, I thought Irving signed an extension that goes into effect next year, but when I went to hoopshype salaries, it doesn't even list numbers for Irving past this season.

[thamadkant]

Total departure from Bledsoe discussion.

Bogdan. He is 2" shorter than Warren, but has a longer Wingspan at just over 6'11", and a Standing Reach of just a tad over 8'8", about equal to that of Warren.

Is Bogdan a SG ONLY, or does he have any chance as a SF as well. I know he's just about 200lbs, but he's fairly strong...should be able to defend SFs, right?

Not sure why I'm asking...I'm just curious that when he comes over, would he back-up Warren at SF, in addition to starting or backing up SG? Thoughts?

I'm excited now after the World Cup as to his prospects of coming over.

I see Bogdan as a SG/SF... a Euro Joe Johnson...


I so want him and Goodwin to be a combo SG and SF for the Suns in the future... perfect skill sets to suit each other.

[Blackification]

I don't know much about Waiters to be honest but what does he do that gerald green didn't when he was a starter last year? Our biggest problem when Bledsoe went down last year was that we had no other point guard to lead the team other than Dragic. Barbosa was too new to the offense and injured to really get it together but with isaiah I would rather start green and dragic (they played fantastic together last year as starters).

I think McD will not make a move until after training camp. When is the earliest Bledsoe can be traded after he signs the qualifying offer? I see it happening similar to Gortat where he will see who is ready to play in training camp and preseason and make a trade if necessary based on who is ready to take a step forward and who is going to lose value.

Like if Goodwin made a jump over the off season and could be a viable backup sg to green Bledsoe then can be traded for a PF if McD sees Markieff is not ready for the starting spot or a C if Plumlee has regressed or has not improved enough.

[NBA Fiend]

Look at Frank Lee being logical. I posted this on the Cavs message board last week. LeBron is the first player/GM to publicly wield his power much like an out of control gladiator. He wanted Love and got him. Lebron is telling Bledsoe what to do. Demand the full max and if they give it to you take it. If not wait until the last minute and take the QO. Now you have the power much like C and C music factory. Then tell the Suns I WILL BE A CAV LEBRON HAS PROPHESIED AND I AM A WITNESS. Now it can happen this year and you can have Waiters or you get nothing because I will reject every trade you present to me and I will sign with the Cavs next year. One last thing Ryan, Lebron asked me to ask you if you like apples, whatever that means. Bonus points for those of you who get that last line.

[RunDogGun]

I don't know much about Waiters to be honest but what does he do that gerald green didn't when he was a starter last year? Our biggest problem when Bledsoe went down last year was that we had no other point guard to lead the team other than Dragic. Barbosa was too new to the offense and injured to really get it together but with isaiah I would rather start green and dragic (they played fantastic together last year as starters).

I think McD will not make a move until after training camp. When is the earliest Bledsoe can be traded after he signs the qualifying offer? I see it happening similar to Gortat where he will see who is ready to play in training camp and preseason and make a trade if necessary based on who is ready to take a step forward and who is going to lose value.

Like if Goodwin made a jump over the off season and could be a viable backup sg to green Bledsoe then can be traded for a PF if McD sees Markieff is not ready for the starting spot or a C if Plumlee has regressed or has not improved enough.

I think there must be some question with Goodwin, if we bring in the other Dragic. Archie would have to have made a huge leap forward after that weak showing in the summer league. And it will all depend on how well Ennis steps up. I still think the team thought it would be a three man guard rotation of Bledsoe, Goran, and IT, with spot minutes going to Green, and some minutes at the three for Green. But now? I just don't know.

It is just too bad Bledsoe's agent is an arse.

Speaking of Plumlee, he just didn't dominate like I thought he would in summer league. It took him many games to get into a solid rhythm. And it would be really nice to see Len challenge Plumlee for the starting spot.

[RunDogGun]

Look at Frank Lee being logical. I posted this on the Cavs message board last week. LeBron is the first player/GM to publicly wield his power much like an out of control gladiator. He wanted Love and got him. Lebron is telling Bledsoe what to do. Demand the full max and if they give it to you take it. If not wait until the last minute and take the QO. Now you have the power much like C and C music factory. Then tell the Suns I WILL BE A CAV LEBRON HAS PROPHESIED AND I AM A WITNESS. Now it can happen this year and you can have Waiters or you get nothing because I will reject every trade you present to me and I will sign with the Cavs next year. One last thing Ryan, Lebron asked me to ask you if you like apples, whatever that means. Bonus points for those of you who get that last line.

But what is the most Bledsoe can get next year from the Cavs? Irving will be near $18 million, Lebron at $21 million, Love at $16 million, and Thompson at $7 million. So that is around $62 million. Will the cap be high enough for the Cavs to sign him outright? If we trade him to the Cavs on the QO, they won't have Bird rights on him. So does this actually work out for Bledsoe and the Cavs? And if it does, why haven't the Cavs done the deal?

[nevetsov]

Makes sense. Bled takes less money this year to ride Bron's coattails to a ring in CLE. Not being expected to carry a team night in and night out means less wear and tear = less chance of injury.

He then gets a max offer from the Lakers next season, where he can go head to head with a declining CP3 for the title of best PG in LA.

He may not make as much cash but he gets a year to play with his chum and could also very well get a ring out of it.

That being the case, who can we flip Waiters to, and for what? SG is the thinnest position in the L and much less saturated than PG.

[Christine-In-AZ]

After reading this story- http://www.foxsports.com/arizona/story/heat-intensifies-as-summer-of-bledsoe-nears-end-091714 ...it's changed my prognosis on Bledsoe likelihood of going QO. While I still have strong hopes he'll cave to a shorter, sweeter and safer deal, it seems Paul and Termini are close to committed to getting to an UFA asap, regardless of risk. Might still be some wiggle room on the short'n safer or a way out via SnT before the season, but the QO to me now seems a strong possibility. Unlike many on this forum, I don't think a QO signing by Bledsoe is tantamount to a pending Bledsoe/Suns divorce. It would present some unusual challenges...awkwardnesseseses, but if all parties just stay professional and focus on the task of winning games together, I don't see why the Suns and Bledsoe can't have a positive "futures discussion" next summer.

What I really liked about the article was the positives delivered about Bogdanovich & Warren. Reading that made me almost put a possible Bledsoe resolution into an "icing on the cake" heading..."almost", I repeat. It'll be a tough loss should Bledsoe just walk away next summer, or just getting 50 cents for the Bledsoe dollar beforehand. Yet, with or without, the Suns '16-'20 future seems to be on a good heading.

[jredsaz]

The second year on Mayos deal sucks. But a motivated Mayo can be productive (see 2012-2013 Mavs season) and even efficient.

Wait... no. Thats not true at all.

Anyway taking the glass-half-full approach he does shoot well from 3 and could help supplement the bench if Green were moved into the starting line-up following the deal.

But back to reality Thomas would probably win the starting position so...

I would love the pics and at this point and I would not turn down the trade out of hand as adding those pics would put us in a position of strength for future trades.


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[Christine-In-AZ]

The deal will be Waiters for Bledsoe straight up. Mark it down. Its been plan B all along.
Bled's camp is skippered by James, and he wants his lil buddy Gilligan on his Island.

Think about it.... it's the only thing that makes sense. Paul/James says Bledsoap gets a max offer, or he takes the QO.
Suns say we'll see if he gets a max, then might match it, but here is our starting offer....Paul/James says max or QO/walking next yr....... But, .... we have convinced Gilbert .... Suns can have waiters and we'll (Cleve) will take Bledsoap so there is no hard feelings.

I think it may be a done deal already and it may explain the inactivity of the Suns FO concerning Mini-King...who I will then refer to as Twinkie.

Good to see you back/around Johnny VC

I agree that it's good to see JVC again, but as far as your trade, I can't see it happening. Why would the Cavs do this? I'm assuming you're implying Bledsoe signs the QO, and is traded for Dion, because the salaries are similar. But the Cavs won't have Bledsoe's bird rights, will they be able to offer Bledsoe a max deal next year with Irving, James, and Love getting huge salaries?

A sign and trade would work, but it would have to involve more players to get the salaries similar, right?

These are my exact thoughts (questions) about a Bledsoe/Waiters swap as well.

[NBA Fiend]

LeBron can opt out next year. Love can sign a max contract next year. Someone who knows help me out here. Can the Cavs sign Bledsoe max, then sign Lebron to another 2 year contract with an opt out, then sign Love to a max deal. Won't the Cavs have bird rights for Lebron and Love. Since the cap is supposed to rise next year are ther are any rules preventing this scenario from happining.

[sunsbum]

I hope bledsoe blows he's knee out of his leg and the ice age squirrel runs on the court and takes off with it.

[Saberestar]

Bob Young

Training camp is just around the corner, and unless a team comes out of nowhere with a sign-and-trade offer, Bledsoe will either have to accept the Suns' offer, quickly return to the table and find some middle ground or sign a one-year qualifying offer of $3.72 million and test unrestricted free agency next summer.

When Bledsoe and Dragic were healthy and playing together, the Suns were 24-13. It's no wonder they'd like to keep that combination together. Bledsoe evidently doesn't share that sentiment.
If he chooses to sign a qualifying offer, then it's time for the Suns to begin planning for a future without him.
That's a future with Dragic as the team leader and playmaker alongside Isaiah Thomas with a blossoming Archie Goodwin and draft pick Tyler Ennis in reserve.

If Bledsoe can pump up his free-agent value coming off the bench, then good for him. If that happens to make him attractive to other teams at the trade deadline, then good for the Suns. Either way, there's only one player in this equation who has earned the kind of money Bledsoe is seeking.
And it isn't him.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/n ... /15812443/

[LukasBMW]

The more I think about it, a Dragic/Waiters/Green 1/2/3 combo could be fun to watch and deadly. All 3 can hit the 3, all 3 can go off for 30 points at any given time, and Waiters and Dragic can get to the rim at will.

Thomas can still backup Dragic and Archie and TJ can develop behind Waiters and Green.

[jredsaz]

Bob Young

Training camp is just around the corner, and unless a team comes out of nowhere with a sign-and-trade offer, Bledsoe will either have to accept the Suns' offer, quickly return to the table and find some middle ground or sign a one-year qualifying offer of $3.72 million and test unrestricted free agency next summer.

When Bledsoe and Dragic were healthy and playing together, the Suns were 24-13. It's no wonder they'd like to keep that combination together. Bledsoe evidently doesn't share that sentiment.
If he chooses to sign a qualifying offer, then it's time for the Suns to begin planning for a future without him.
That's a future with Dragic as the team leader and playmaker alongside Isaiah Thomas with a blossoming Archie Goodwin and draft pick Tyler Ennis in reserve.

If Bledsoe can pump up his free-agent value coming off the bench, then good for him. If that happens to make him attractive to other teams at the trade deadline, then good for the Suns. Either way, there's only one player in this equation who has earned the kind of money Bledsoe is seeking.
And it isn't him.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/n ... /15812443/

I understand the hate directed at Rich Paul.

However, something that is not addressed in the Bob Young article that I believe lies at the root of the current Bledsoe/Suns standoff is the impending TV deal and the significant increase that agreement will impose on the NBA's salary structure moving forward.

Suns fans, and I include myself, have looked at this negotiation in a vacuum, applying the logic of current PG production value (Kyle Lowery's 4/$48 million) to the Bledsoe negotiations.

However, when considering the LeBron James contract (a two year, one year opt-out agreement), Paul and his team are anticipating the cap increase and, in turn, applying that logic in their representation of Bledsoe.

Paul views the Lowery contract as a baseline from which to extrapolate the future value of Bledsoe's production in the context of the impending NBA economy.

While his negotiating tactics are questionable, the application of a general understanding of economic trends in the NBA economy are a year ahead of the vast majority of other agents.

The current belief is that a max deal will prevail as the only long term remedy to the current standoff, but in reality no one but Paul and Bledsoe know the actual number that will satisfy their contractual demands.

[jredsaz]

Suns fans, and I include myself, have looked at this negotiation in a vacuum, applying the logic of current PG production value (Kyle Lowery's 4/$48 million) to the Bledsoe negotiations.

This is the best way I can demonstrate a Suns fan change in their perspective of the Bledsoe negotiations. One of my favorite scenes from The Wire

http://youtu.be/1lElf7D-An8

[nevetsov]

If we end up with Waiters, I wonder if there's any chance we could flip him, along with bit players/ picks for either Derozan or T.Ross. Perhaps Green or Tucker.

Would give us an established stud wing to lead our young core of perimeter players. Good complement for Goran too.

Would give TOR a go-to scoring option and a guy to add to their young core of JV and Amir.

[jredsaz]

If we end up with Waiters, I wonder if there's any chance we could flip him, along with bit players/ picks for either Derozan or T.Ross. Perhaps Green or Tucker.

Would give us an established stud wing to lead our young core of perimeter players. Good complement for Goran too.

Would give TOR a go-to scoring option and a guy to add to their young core of JV and Amir.

Im not sure the value is there in that trade for either side, without pics.

Secondly, am I the only one on this site that looks at Dragic as a combo 2? I see him as a shorter Ginobili in a shorter NBA. Dragic working off of Bledsoe led us to a .650 winning percentage. He is obviously able to run the point but I think his game is better operating off a more natural 1.

[nevetsov]

^ I prefer him in that role too, but IMO it only works if he's paired with a capable defensive PG. The only issue with Goran at Point is that he can't keep in front of half the league's zippy little guys and we routinely get burned for 20-30ppg by them. If Goran can sag off on the lesser of the two opposing wings, it not only helps us defensively, but Goran is less gassed by the 4th quarter.

Ideally, Archie explodes and he can play the Bledsoe role alongside Goran... He defended PGs very well for short spurts last year.