ImageImageImage

The Trade Thread: All Eyes Toward The Offseason

Moderators: bwgood77, lilfishi22, Qwigglez

User avatar
bwgood77
Global Mod
Global Mod
Posts: 98,336
And1: 61,074
Joined: Feb 06, 2009
Location: Austin
Contact:
   

Re: The Trade Thread: All Eyes Toward The Offseason 

Post#701 » by bwgood77 » Tue Apr 5, 2016 8:25 pm

SideSwipe wrote:
Puff wrote:
letsgosuns wrote:The Suns just need to get better talent. The team has not had any elite players for years. The last time they had an elite player was Nash and he was in the twilight of his career during that time.


Nash was probably the best but Amare and the Matrix were pretty good as well. I also think we all underrated what Boris brought to the party. He is still alive and well in San Antonio.

If that team would have had a player like Booker at the 2 and a younger Chandler coming off the bench they could have been real special.

The current team actually may have better role players but as you have stated we have no stars. We need to get a couple sooner than later.

However if our plan is to not play them, why bother.

What really is the point of playing Ronnie Price?

Why didn't we trade Tucker?

We just wasted the playing time that they were given, for what?

Wow, we are a freaking mess.

The good thing is that with just a couple of key player moves things can change for the better quickly. I hope it happens this summer.


Not moving Price, Tucker, Chandler or Tele at the line was an indication to me that the FO is going to be opportunistic at exploring big trades/ FA moves this summer with an eye towards pushing to a contender. Each of those players has limitations, but they are perfect role players on a good, playoff team. I am absolutely not convinced we are rebuilding at all. Add two alpha-male scorers to that team, and we are back in the mix. Most are very likely not happening but adding any two Butler, Melo, KD, George, Horford... A Knight/#3/Goodwin can net a good player; Warren/Len/#12/#29 package can net another player- maybe in a S&T, and depending on how that came out there could still be as much as $25 million to spend in FA. Pushing one of the more realistic scenarios it could lead to something like this.

Purchase an early #2 (Melo Trimble) for up to $3million

Bledsoe/ Price (re-up at $2-$4)/ Trimble (#39)
Booker/ FA (Bud at min)/ Jenkins
Melo (trade for pack #1)/ Tucker/ FA
Horford (S&T for pack #2)/ Tele (re-up at $8-10)/ Williams
Chandler/ FA/ Zicic(#33)

Great scoring potential, decent defensive potential with a balance of young, mid-career and experienced vets, and a pretty solid bench of good role players. My examples could be overpay or underpay for those deals, but this is really just to show what could be out there for the Suns if things fall into place.


I don't think there is any way Melo would agree to come to Phoenix (not only does he love NY, but if he did decide to move it is likely either to a contender, to play with his friends, or if it was a non contender, I think it would only be the Lakers because of the exposure, his wife, big city, etc), not that I'd want him anyway. I'm fairly doubtful on Horford, but if he gets all his money he MAY move, but he is from down south and has played there his entire career. Many think he may end up in Boston if he goes anywhere.

There is little doubt in my mind McD will try and swing for something fairly big and may meet with Horford and outline a good plan for him, and perhaps some others. I think Indy and Chicago will have little or no interest to trade George or Butler, and I think KD likely stays in OKC, but if he left, I think Phoenix would be WAY down on his list.
User avatar
bwgood77
Global Mod
Global Mod
Posts: 98,336
And1: 61,074
Joined: Feb 06, 2009
Location: Austin
Contact:
   

Re: The Trade Thread: All Eyes Toward The Offseason 

Post#702 » by bwgood77 » Tue Apr 5, 2016 8:36 pm

Speaking of the offseason, I was trying to scour all the sports sites for draft stuff earlier and stumbled across an article and found this quote, which, frankly, I was surprised to see.

“When Ryan (McDonough) made the deal, it was a case where Isaiah was going to be a starter, asked to be a starter, but we have Eric Bledsoe,” Hornacek said.


This is kind of an interesting tidbit too, because MANY analysts were out there saying Phx wouldn't get anything for Markieff, this article, at the time, said

Morris actively sought a trade in the offseason, appeared to be playing with half-effort to open the year, posted terrible numbers and was considered toxic as a trade asset. But around the league, Morris is still viewed as a potentially valuable stretch-power forward, one who could bring the Suns more value than expected as we approach next month’s trading deadline.

“He’s young, he can fit into that four-spot and has the potential to stretch the floor with his shooting if he gets into a better situation,” one league executive said. “His contract is not that much of a problem (three years, $24 million after this season) and everyone knows what his upside is.”

The notion that the Suns can’t even give away Morris because he’s had a poor attitude is overblown.
And, the league executive said, veterans such as Mirza Teletovic and P.J. Tucker have been discussed as trade targets, too, though the Suns are delaying discussions about those players until they're more certain that a playoff run can't be mounted.


http://www.sportingnews.com/nba-news/4691398-phoenix-suns-markieff-morris-trade-eric-bledsoe-injury-devin-booker-brandon-knight

Sean Deveney apparently knows a lot more than a lot of other writers/analysts out there.
sunshoopjunky
Sophomore
Posts: 102
And1: 25
Joined: Jun 25, 2009

Re: The Trade Thread: All Eyes Toward The Offseason 

Post#703 » by sunshoopjunky » Tue Apr 5, 2016 11:05 pm

cosmofizzo wrote:Sabonis is my guy in this draft.

Assuming we got the #1 or #2, think New Orleans would do Knight + #12 for #6? I think they might pass in order to take Jamal Murray. But they need pieces, and they need to compete sooner rather than later. I imagine they'd be tempted. Would only happen if we wanted someone in that range in a bad way.


I agree with Sabonis or maybe Skal with 13
I also agree that there are all kinds of things we can do with these picks depending on how it goes down.
We need more “Shazam!” and less“Heartbreak Hotel”.
sunshoopjunky
Sophomore
Posts: 102
And1: 25
Joined: Jun 25, 2009

Re: The Trade Thread: All Eyes Toward The Offseason 

Post#704 » by sunshoopjunky » Tue Apr 5, 2016 11:41 pm

SideSwipe wrote:Not moving Price, Tucker, Chandler or Tele at the line was an indication to me that the FO is going to be opportunistic at exploring big trades/ FA moves this summer with an eye towards pushing to a contender. Each of those players has limitations, but they are perfect role players on a good, playoff team. I am absolutely not convinced we are rebuilding at all. Add two alpha-male scorers to that team, and we are back in the mix. Most are very likely not happening but adding any two Butler, Melo, KD, George, Horford... A Knight/#3/Goodwin can net a good player; Warren/Len/#12/#29 package can net another player- maybe in a S&T, and depending on how that came out there could still be as much as $25 million to spend in FA. Pushing one of the more realistic scenarios it could lead to something like this.

Purchase an early #2 (Melo Trimble) for up to $3million

Bledsoe/ Price (re-up at $2-$4)/ Trimble (#39)
Booker/ FA (Bud at min)/ Jenkins
Melo (trade for pack #1)/ Tucker/ FA
Horford (S&T for pack #2)/ Tele (re-up at $8-10)/ Williams
Chandler/ FA/ Zicic(#33)

Great scoring potential, decent defensive potential with a balance of young, mid-career and experienced vets, and a pretty solid bench of good role players. My examples could be overpay or underpay for those deals, but this is really just to show what could be out there for the Suns if things fall into place.


Good post.

I think having multiple 2 way players on the floor is one of the the things it is going to take to compete for a ring in the playoffs.

I Like Zicic but I would stash him as long as I could get a way with it. Bigs take time.
We need more “Shazam!” and less“Heartbreak Hotel”.
User avatar
Qwigglez
Forum Mod - Suns
Forum Mod - Suns
Posts: 21,586
And1: 14,860
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
Contact:
     

Re: The Trade Thread: All Eyes Toward The Offseason 

Post#705 » by Qwigglez » Wed Apr 6, 2016 12:38 am

I actually think getting Love would move the needle for us. Well, it depends who we give up. If it's just something like 2016 pick, 2018 Miami Pick and maybe Brandon Knight then we'd look solid (if healthy). Sign Barnes or Batum and we look pretty good.
Bled/Book/Batum/Love/Len with Warren/Bogdan/Chandler/Tucker off the bench is a playoff team at the very least.
User avatar
lilfishi22
Forum Mod - Suns
Forum Mod - Suns
Posts: 36,385
And1: 24,718
Joined: Oct 16, 2007
Location: Australia

Re: The Trade Thread: All Eyes Toward The Offseason 

Post#706 » by lilfishi22 » Wed Apr 6, 2016 12:50 am

Qwigglez wrote:I actually think getting Love would move the needle for us. Well, it depends who we give up. If it's just something like 2016 pick, 2018 Miami Pick and maybe Brandon Knight then we'd look solid (if healthy). Sign Barnes or Batum and we look pretty good.
Bled/Book/Batum/Love/Len with Warren/Bogdan/Chandler/Tucker off the bench is a playoff team at the very least.

If we got Batum, Love is doing his 20/10 thing, Len is 10/10/2 with good FG% and Book/Warren take their game to the next level, we're a lower-tier playoff team. The other major factor would be coaching.
User avatar
Qwigglez
Forum Mod - Suns
Forum Mod - Suns
Posts: 21,586
And1: 14,860
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
Contact:
     

Re: The Trade Thread: All Eyes Toward The Offseason 

Post#707 » by Qwigglez » Wed Apr 6, 2016 1:08 am

lilfishi22 wrote:
Qwigglez wrote:I actually think getting Love would move the needle for us. Well, it depends who we give up. If it's just something like 2016 pick, 2018 Miami Pick and maybe Brandon Knight then we'd look solid (if healthy). Sign Barnes or Batum and we look pretty good.
Bled/Book/Batum/Love/Len with Warren/Bogdan/Chandler/Tucker off the bench is a playoff team at the very least.

If we got Batum, Love is doing his 20/10 thing, Len is 10/10/2 with good FG% and Book/Warren take their game to the next level, we're a lower-tier playoff team. The other major factor would be coaching.


I think we'd be a better team than Blazers/Mavs/Grizzlies and maybe Rockets depending on what happens with them this summer. Jazz should be improving internally but so should we.
If Bledsoe keeps his game elevated like he did this year where he was being a top 20 player then no reason why we can't be an exciting low-tier playoff team.
User avatar
bwgood77
Global Mod
Global Mod
Posts: 98,336
And1: 61,074
Joined: Feb 06, 2009
Location: Austin
Contact:
   

Re: The Trade Thread: All Eyes Toward The Offseason 

Post#708 » by bwgood77 » Wed Apr 6, 2016 1:29 am

Qwigglez wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:
Qwigglez wrote:I actually think getting Love would move the needle for us. Well, it depends who we give up. If it's just something like 2016 pick, 2018 Miami Pick and maybe Brandon Knight then we'd look solid (if healthy). Sign Barnes or Batum and we look pretty good.
Bled/Book/Batum/Love/Len with Warren/Bogdan/Chandler/Tucker off the bench is a playoff team at the very least.

If we got Batum, Love is doing his 20/10 thing, Len is 10/10/2 with good FG% and Book/Warren take their game to the next level, we're a lower-tier playoff team. The other major factor would be coaching.


I think we'd be a better team than Blazers/Mavs/Grizzlies and maybe Rockets depending on what happens with them this summer. Jazz should be improving internally but so should we.
If Bledsoe keeps his game elevated like he did this year where he was being a top 20 player then no reason why we can't be an exciting low-tier playoff team.


Unless a third team is involved to get Cleveland players they need to win asap, we wouldn't be involved. LeBron isn't interested in trading a player like Love for picks. Or even Knight (unless they get rid of Kyrie). It seems like Cavs fans would rather get rid of Kyrie than Love (at least on the trade forum IIRC).

But if they did trade Love, it would likely be for defensive vets like Tucker/Chandler, but that alone is obviously not enough value. But with Thompson, I think Chandler is a bit redundant anyway.
User avatar
blacksun
Senior
Posts: 673
And1: 375
Joined: Feb 19, 2010
   

Re: The Trade Thread: All Eyes Toward The Offseason 

Post#709 » by blacksun » Wed Apr 6, 2016 1:44 am

bwgood77 wrote:Unless a third team is involved to get Cleveland players they need to win asap, we wouldn't be involved. LeBron isn't interested in trading a player like Love for picks. Or even Knight (unless they get rid of Kyrie). It seems like Cavs fans would rather get rid of Kyrie than Love (at least on the trade forum IIRC).

But if they did trade Love, it would likely be for defensive vets like Tucker/Chandler, but that alone is obviously not enough value. But with Thompson, I think Chandler is a bit redundant anyway.


Brooklyn is a good team to call. If we can flip Knight, some of the first round picks, Archie if they want him, to BKN, and they send Lopez, Young to CLE. I dont think its that far off.
User avatar
GetYourPHX
Pro Prospect
Posts: 872
And1: 789
Joined: Feb 10, 2012
 

Re: The Trade Thread: All Eyes Toward The Offseason 

Post#710 » by GetYourPHX » Wed Apr 6, 2016 1:58 am

If Dunn slides...

Knight and WAS pick to SAC for Collision/Dunn

I'd do it in 1 second.
TeamTragic
General Manager
Posts: 9,000
And1: 7,028
Joined: Feb 18, 2015
 

Re: The Trade Thread: All Eyes Toward The Offseason 

Post#711 » by TeamTragic » Wed Apr 6, 2016 3:46 am

GetYourPHX wrote:If Dunn slides...

Knight and WAS pick to SAC for Collision/Dunn

I'd do it in 1 second.


I'm torn even though we get to dump Knight. That #13 is gold for McD.
User avatar
saintEscaton
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,996
And1: 2,865
Joined: Jan 31, 2015
Location: The Sonoran
         

Re: The Trade Thread: All Eyes Toward The Offseason 

Post#712 » by saintEscaton » Wed Apr 6, 2016 3:53 am

GoranTragic wrote:
GetYourPHX wrote:If Dunn slides...

Knight and WAS pick to SAC for Collision/Dunn

I'd do it in 1 second.


I'm torn even though we get to dump Knight. That #13 is gold for McD.


I'm so tired of hearing this, you can only find so many diamonds in the rough. Of course you take Dunn over any of the leftover bigs in the late lotto
Jonestown Suicide Squad

[. Sign the Petition To Force Sarver Into Selling Our Team

https://www.change.org/p/robert-sarver-sell-the-phoenix-suns-basketball-team-2

Image
User avatar
bwgood77
Global Mod
Global Mod
Posts: 98,336
And1: 61,074
Joined: Feb 06, 2009
Location: Austin
Contact:
   

Re: The Trade Thread: All Eyes Toward The Offseason 

Post#713 » by bwgood77 » Wed Apr 6, 2016 4:10 am

saintEscaton wrote:
GoranTragic wrote:
GetYourPHX wrote:If Dunn slides...

Knight and WAS pick to SAC for Collision/Dunn

I'd do it in 1 second.


I'm torn even though we get to dump Knight. That #13 is gold for McD.


I'm so tired of hearing this, you can only find so many diamonds in the rough. Of course you take Dunn over any of the leftover bigs in the late lotto


I don't think Dunn will drop that far...that is 8th-10th, but of course that's a good deal for us if he was so why the hell would Sacramento do it? I know they don't make the smartest trades.

There is some irony though if that did happen. People across the league laugh that we'd rather pay Knight 14 than IT 8 (even if you don't even consider losing the Lakers pick too and picking up a far worse one) but then Sacramento would end up doing essentially doing the same thing, though they would have let IT walk for nothing and then gotten a more expensive Knight while giving up a higher pick for a lower one. You can add in they also lose Collison but we lost Ennis.
Frank Lee
RealGM
Posts: 14,268
And1: 10,086
Joined: Nov 07, 2006

Re: The Trade Thread: All Eyes Toward The Offseason 

Post#714 » by Frank Lee » Wed Apr 6, 2016 5:09 am

Yes, but we all know the magic McMully possesses as he will hypnotize an unsuspecting GM and pawn soon to be thrice cast off Knight for a lotto and talent. His wizardry makes me dreamy. :noway:


Can we just bag the Knight flight for a while ? The dude is likely slated for the knife, yet some talk as if he will have value come draft day.


(now I will patiently await the pro-McMulligan minions to reassure/correct me on how wonderful he can be at trading players who I perceive have little to negative value)
What ? Me Worry ?
Years90Suns
Senior
Posts: 707
And1: 280
Joined: Nov 29, 2011

Re: The Trade Thread: All Eyes Toward The Offseason 

Post#715 » by Years90Suns » Wed Apr 6, 2016 8:54 am

I had never seen a two videos taking the same action as an example for the pros and the cons...

I believe Maker is as undeveloped as Bender or Sabonis can be. Probably he is more developed already. His physical skills are almost unlimited, while Bender and Sabonis do not have those abilities.
Bender has not made any progress for the last year or so. Neither did Sabonis. And I do not think they will become great players.

I did not remember we had that 12 pick, so I believe we could get him there, but I do not believe that he is not useful enough to be selected at 3. If we have that pick, then we have to use it on whatever player we think we need the most, regardless of the pick.

I also believe it seems stupid to use two picks in two PFs, but I believe it is the position in which we have a deepest need.

Bender will regain overseas for a couple of years, I believe.
Walt_Uoob
Senior
Posts: 545
And1: 403
Joined: Sep 26, 2014
 

Re: The Trade Thread: All Eyes Toward The Offseason 

Post#716 » by Walt_Uoob » Wed Apr 6, 2016 7:42 pm

Radical rebuild idea... Would Simmons and Ingram work together? Say for instance we get #1 and Boston gets #2, or vice versa, maybe we could work out a three-way trade with Love going to Boston, the #1/#2 coming here, and a package of players and picks from us and Boston going to Cleveland. We draft Simmons and Ingram and jump-start the rebuild in a big way.

Knight/Len/Goodwin was mentioned for Love a while back, so that could be a starting point, though I'd like to keep Len and don't think Cleveland would want Knight. But as long as we could keep most of our young core other combinations could work too. We could also involve one more team willing to send vets to CLE in exchange for draft picks from us. We'd have to take back some salary somehow too. I dunno. Here's one version that works cap-wise and gives Cleveland a nice haul for Love without us having to give up Len: http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=zy2cclr . We send out Knight, Tucker, Goodwin, and Leuer and have to take back Amir Johnson, Iman Shumpert, and Jonas Jerebko. #1/#2 comes to us from Boston.

Bledsoe / WAS pick?
Booker / Shumpert
Ingram / Warren
Simmons / Amir
Len / Chandler

Pretty nice potential mix of scoring, defense, and ball movement.

Then later we probably move Chandler, Shumpert, and Johnson.
TeamTragic
General Manager
Posts: 9,000
And1: 7,028
Joined: Feb 18, 2015
 

Re: The Trade Thread: All Eyes Toward The Offseason 

Post#717 » by TeamTragic » Wed Apr 6, 2016 8:00 pm

Walt_Uoob wrote:Radical rebuild idea... Would Simmons and Ingram work together? Say for instance we get #1 and Boston gets #2, or vice versa, maybe we could work out a three-way trade with Love going to Boston, the #1/#2 coming here, and a package of players and picks from us and Boston going to Cleveland. We draft Simmons and Ingram and jump-start the rebuild in a big way.

Knight/Len/Goodwin was mentioned for Love a while back, so that could be a starting point, though I'd like to keep Len and don't think Cleveland would want Knight. But as long as we could keep most of our young core other combinations could work too. We could also involve one more team willing to send vets to CLE in exchange for draft picks from us. We'd have to take back some salary somehow too. I dunno. Here's one version that works cap-wise and gives Cleveland a nice haul for Love without us having to give up Len: http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=zy2cclr . We send out Knight, Tucker, Goodwin, and Leuer and have to take back Amir Johnson, Iman Shumpert, and Jonas Jerebko. #1/#2 comes to us from Boston.

Bledsoe / WAS pick?
Booker / Shumpert
Ingram / Warren
Simmons / Amir
Len / Chandler

Pretty nice potential mix of scoring, defense, and ball movement.

Then later we probably move Chandler, Shumpert, and Johnson.


I'm sorry but I cannot take you seriously with that avatar :lol:
Damkac
Analyst
Posts: 3,145
And1: 3,063
Joined: Apr 18, 2011
Location: Poland

Re: The Trade Thread: All Eyes Toward The Offseason 

Post#718 » by Damkac » Wed Apr 6, 2016 8:16 pm

If Cleveland want our pg it's Bledsoe. He is Bron's friend and good defender. Why would they want Knight who is a poor man's Irving when they have the original Irving? If we could get top 3 pick for Bledsoe and some other parts I would do it.

Years90Suns wrote:I had never seen a two videos taking the same action as an example for the pros and the cons...

I believe Maker is as undeveloped as Bender or Sabonis can be. Probably he is more developed already. His physical skills are almost unlimited, while Bender and Sabonis do not have those abilities.
Bender has not made any progress for the last year or so. Neither did Sabonis. And I do not think they will become great players.

I did not remember we had that 12 pick, so I believe we could get him there, but I do not believe that he is not useful enough to be selected at 3. If we have that pick, then we have to use it on whatever player we think we need the most, regardless of the pick.

I also believe it seems stupid to use two picks in two PFs, but I believe it is the position in which we have a deepest need.

Bender will regain overseas for a couple of years, I believe.

1. Maker MAY be more developed than Bender. No way he is more developed than Sabonis (almost 18/12/2 player in his 2nd year in college)
2. Maker has his physical limitations (small hands, frame)
3. Both Bender and Sabonis made progress
4. Bender will play in NBA next season
Walt_Uoob
Senior
Posts: 545
And1: 403
Joined: Sep 26, 2014
 

Re: The Trade Thread: All Eyes Toward The Offseason 

Post#719 » by Walt_Uoob » Wed Apr 6, 2016 8:18 pm

Walt_Uoob wrote:Radical rebuild idea... Would Simmons and Ingram work together? Say for instance we get #1 and Boston gets #2, or vice versa, maybe we could work out a three-way trade with Love going to Boston, the #1/#2 coming here, and a package of players and picks from us and Boston going to Cleveland. We draft Simmons and Ingram and jump-start the rebuild in a big way.

Knight/Len/Goodwin was mentioned for Love a while back, so that could be a starting point, though I'd like to keep Len and don't think Cleveland would want Knight. But as long as we could keep most of our young core other combinations could work too. We could also involve one more team willing to send vets to CLE in exchange for draft picks from us. We'd have to take back some salary somehow too. I dunno. Here's one version that works cap-wise and gives Cleveland a nice haul for Love without us having to give up Len: http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=zy2cclr . We send out Knight, Tucker, Goodwin, and Leuer and have to take back Amir Johnson, Iman Shumpert, and Jonas Jerebko. #1/#2 comes to us from Boston.

Bledsoe / WAS pick?
Booker / Shumpert
Ingram / Warren
Simmons / Amir
Len / Chandler

Pretty nice potential mix of scoring, defense, and ball movement.

Then later we probably move Chandler, Shumpert, and Johnson.


Trade #2 could be something based on Chandler to New Orleans for #6, with which we could take Dunn to be our backup PG. Not sure what else would need to be involved but Chandler would fit well next to Davis and minimize his wear and tear I think. We'd have Bledsoe / Booker / Ingram / Simmons / Len with Dunn / Shumpert / Warren / Johnson / WAS pick / CLE pick off the bench. Would put us right there with MIN as far as young teams oozing with potential, while also lining us up for another high lottery pick next year.
Walt_Uoob
Senior
Posts: 545
And1: 403
Joined: Sep 26, 2014
 

Re: The Trade Thread: All Eyes Toward The Offseason 

Post#720 » by Walt_Uoob » Wed Apr 6, 2016 8:20 pm

Damkac wrote:If Cleveland want our pg it's Bledsoe. He is Bron's friend and good defender. Why would they want Knight who is a poor man's Irving when they have the original Irving? If we could get top 3 pick for Bledsoe and some other parts I would do it.


Yeah, I know, I just really like Bledsoe and want to keep him on the team. Plus the timing with his injury recovery might not work out for a draft-day trade.

Return to Phoenix Suns