The 2016 Offseason Thread

[Frank Lee]

Sign a couple guys for comic relief.... Genius

[NaturalBuns]

I can't believe y'all with this summer league hype. Is this your guys first year watching summer league? What about Dionte Xmas, Seth Curry etc....

Williams and kuric...

Insane y'all want to waive Archie for that. We know exactly what summer league brings. I had to pull Archie Goodwin stats from summer league in his 1st and 2nd year. I can't wrap my head around this one at all. He also has NBA Exp? Is hitting that age when he might make a leap just wow

I'm not sure how much time you want to give him but I'm also not sure how much he even wants to be on the team. He was the only young guy not hanging with the team in all their off season activities and workouts and stuff. Not sure if they even feel he is much of a part of the team anymore.

How much time you willing to give bender at #4? He seems 2-3 seasons away from being impactful. Archie at 18,19 balled in summer league. Williams and Kuric at age 21,26 didn't impress the way he did at his age. We all know Jeff hornacek didn't play young players. Len barely cracked minutes along with Archie. **** he wouldn't even mess with booker much and almost every game thread why is PJ in and not Warren.


He had some big scoring games unlike all other current and past summer league guys fighting for a spot he can create on his own. Does it well too just was really young and still is.

Was listening to KTAR they had a recap of summer league they also feel Archie should play over barbosa if not trade the kid which I wouldn't do..not at this point They feel he's ready.

They talk about him at 21:30 ish
http://arizonasports.com/story/742335/suns-summer-league-success-stories-dragan-bender-marquese-chriss/

[bwgood77]

Sign a couple guys for comic relief.... Genius

C'mon, you're all about a little comic relief. I doubt we were going to get any superstar to thrust us into contention. I'm just glad we didn't hand out a bunch of really crazy stupid contracts.

[lilfishi22]

I can't believe y'all with this summer league hype. Is this your guys first year watching summer league? What about Dionte Xmas, Seth Curry etc....

Williams and kuric...

Insane y'all want to waive Archie for that. We know exactly what summer league brings. I had to pull Archie Goodwin stats from summer league in his 1st and 2nd year. I can't wrap my head around this one at all. He also has NBA Exp? Is hitting that age when he might make a leap just wow

I'm not sure how much time you want to give him but I'm also not sure how much he even wants to be on the team. He was the only young guy not hanging with the team in all their off season activities and workouts and stuff. Not sure if they even feel he is much of a part of the team anymore.

How much time you willing to give bender at #4? He seems 2-3 seasons away from being impactful. Archie at 18,19 balled in summer league. Williams and Kuric at age 21,26 didn't impress the way he did at his age. We all know Jeff hornacek didn't play young players. Len barely cracked minutes along with Archie. **** he wouldn't even mess with booker much and almost every game thread why is PJ in and not Warren.


He had some big scoring games unlike all other current and past summer league guys fighting for a spot he can create on his own. Does it well too just was really young and still is.

Was listening to KTAR they had a recap of summer league they also feel Archie should play over barbosa if not trade the kid which I wouldn't do..not at this point They feel he's ready.

They talk about him at 21:30 ish
http://arizonasports.com/story/742335/suns-summer-league-success-stories-dragan-bender-marquese-chriss/

If he's ready then he should have an opportunity to prove it. But if they intend to put players in front of him because they don't feel like he's a contributor then let's roll the dice on an unknown like Troy Williams. Statistics in the D-League and summer league is one thing but if they can't transfer that producivity into the NBA then it's meaningless. Yes Archie had some monster games in the D-League and Summer league but again, if he can't reproduce that in the NBA, it's kind of meaningless.

This is not me making a case for trading or waiving Archie because I do like him as a player and I do see promise in his game. I am only looking at the makeup of this team, the likelihood of good playing opportunities and also what he's done thus far in his time with us. All signs point to another year riding the bench unless he takes a significant leap in his game (I've been hoping for that for a while). I don't know how much of that interview is fan service and how much of it is legit but the optimism in Archie isn't new so it's hard for me to get excited or think they are really going to carve out some consistent PT for him until I see it.

[thamadkant]

I can't believe y'all with this summer league hype. Is this your guys first year watching summer league? What about Dionte Xmas, Seth Curry etc....

Williams and kuric...

Insane y'all want to waive Archie for that. We know exactly what summer league brings. I had to pull Archie Goodwin stats from summer league in his 1st and 2nd year. I can't wrap my head around this one at all. He also has NBA Exp? Is hitting that age when he might make a leap just wow

I'm not sure how much time you want to give him but I'm also not sure how much he even wants to be on the team. He was the only young guy not hanging with the team in all their off season activities and workouts and stuff. Not sure if they even feel he is much of a part of the team anymore.

How much time you willing to give bender at #4? He seems 2-3 seasons away from being impactful. Archie at 18,19 balled in summer league. Williams and Kuric at age 21,26 didn't impress the way he did at his age. We all know Jeff hornacek didn't play young players. Len barely cracked minutes along with Archie. **** he wouldn't even mess with booker much and almost every game thread why is PJ in and not Warren.


He had some big scoring games unlike all other current and past summer league guys fighting for a spot he can create on his own. Does it well too just was really young and still is.

Was listening to KTAR they had a recap of summer league they also feel Archie should play over barbosa if not trade the kid which I wouldn't do..not at this point They feel he's ready.

They talk about him at 21:30 ish
http://arizonasports.com/story/742335/suns-summer-league-success-stories-dragan-bender-marquese-chriss/

Agreed.


Also did Warren and Len hang around the "young" guys also?

I only noticed the rookies, Booker, Undrafted players and Bledsoe occasionally hanging out.


Goodwin was a Summer league star and has shown glimpse againts Lowry, Westbrook, Rubio etc. All very good players... Goodwin has experience... Even had huge 20 point games, had a 17 point 12 assists game.. Even showed amazing defense against the Hawks... Which shows that if he focuses and put 100% effort he could be a shut down player. A couple of buzzer beaters also shows he is NOT scared to be the guy. His shot has improved every year not just stats wise but form wise.
He is top 3 on Suns in regards to PPS also.

Waive him?? Lol

This is ridiculous.
Archie has shown so much to just waive him.

I like Ulis, he will likely be an NBA player for a while. But the other undrafted guys arent up to it. Would not consider letting Goodwin go for those guys.



For some fans here...
Picture the team 25 games in and is below 0.500. And outside top 10 Western conference.

Would you guys still want Barbosa and other veteran bench players getting minutes over the rookies and the under 23 year old players?

[bwgood77]

I'm not sure how much time you want to give him but I'm also not sure how much he even wants to be on the team. He was the only young guy not hanging with the team in all their off season activities and workouts and stuff. Not sure if they even feel he is much of a part of the team anymore.

How much time you willing to give bender at #4? He seems 2-3 seasons away from being impactful. Archie at 18,19 balled in summer league. Williams and Kuric at age 21,26 didn't impress the way he did at his age. We all know Jeff hornacek didn't play young players. Len barely cracked minutes along with Archie. **** he wouldn't even mess with booker much and almost every game thread why is PJ in and not Warren.


He had some big scoring games unlike all other current and past summer league guys fighting for a spot he can create on his own. Does it well too just was really young and still is.

Was listening to KTAR they had a recap of summer league they also feel Archie should play over barbosa if not trade the kid which I wouldn't do..not at this point They feel he's ready.

They talk about him at 21:30 ish
http://arizonasports.com/story/742335/suns-summer-league-success-stories-dragan-bender-marquese-chriss/

If he's ready then he should have an opportunity to prove it. But if they intend to put players in front of him because they don't feel like he's a contributor then let's roll the dice on an unknown like Troy Williams. Statistics in the D-League and summer league is one thing but if they can't transfer that producivity into the NBA then it's meaningless. Yes Archie had some monster games in the D-League and Summer league but again, if he can't reproduce that in the NBA, it's kind of meaningless.

This is not me making a case for trading or waiving Archie because I do like him as a player and I do see promise in his game. I am only looking at the makeup of this team, the likelihood of good playing opportunities and also what he's done thus far in his time with us. All signs point to another year riding the bench unless he takes a significant leap in his game (I've been hoping for that for a while). I don't know how much of that interview is fan service and how much of it is legit but the optimism in Archie isn't new so it's hard for me to get excited or think they are really going to carve out some consistent PT for him until I see it.

To add to that, we have Bledsoe, Knight, and Booker, who will get the lions share of minutes at 1 and 2, if not all of them, plus Ulis, who probably at this point already deserves more playing time than Archie. At 3, we really only have Warren and Tucker if Dudley is going to play 4, and Tucker is expiring (as is Archie for that matter). Part of the reason to decide on Archie is because this is the last year of his contract anyway.

[Frank Lee]

Archie is the classic example of a 'Play me or trade me' player. No way he re-signs next year with out playing time this year. Problem is, he likely has no significant value as a trade chip solo.

On the out looking in, any GM can see if they wait, the Suns will eventually waive him. He is not going to like riding pine again, especially after signing Barbasoso. That completely muddled any future he had here. Barbs = great for the locker room ??? Sure, once Goodwin goes. Was Barbs a Sarver grab or another McMully FA muck up?

There may be questions about his talent, but its a clear sign to me the FO really doesn't have Goodwin in their plans. I see a buy out / waive coming his way, sooner the better. He'll be happy to get it so he can move on.

Arrivederci Arch, in bocca al lupo

[NavLDO]

And how many of those 'Wings' are under 25?? Not counting Booker, who needs to stay at SG, at SF we have Duds, Tucker, and Warren. So yeah, a young Wing would be nice to have, especially I Duds gets most of his minutes at PF...that leaves Warren and Tucker, and MAYBE Bender, but let's face it, Bender is non-traditional. I'm talking more about the traditional sense.

So, you are saying, then, that you would be opposed to signing him over, say Jenkins or keeping Goodwin?? Were you not impressed with what Williams did in SL?? Just curious.

I think it's definitely worth signing him. Heck, he will have a million dollar contract or less. It's not like you have much to lose. I don't know if you can do a one year deal with two team option years after that, but it's not like we are so loaded with talent we're not sure where he could fit.

We have 13 guys inked up. Not counting Jenkins or AWilliams. Can only have 15. I give a bigwhoopteedo on summer league accomplishments/failures/average performances.... isn't that what we are supposed to do?

I don't think the Big Sauce will be anything more than common ketchup. I am not familiar with Jenkins' game as I probably didn't watch more than 2 full games in the last 50. The other Williams ? Stash him in the D for safe keeping if you are that impressed. We have enough 'moppers' as is.

That's probably the more reasonable option, but I don't see Jenkins getting many minutes this year, and while it's easy to say "we already have an athletic Wing," there's a big difference between a 6'5" 200lb and a 6'4" 210lb SG and a 6'7" 220 SF. How are Archie and Jenkins going to get minutes with our gluttony of Guards? At least when looking at the SF/PF positions, we have what, 5 1/2, at most??

At least Williams would have a chance to provide some minutes at SF, since we only have Tucker/Warren at SF.

I just think lumping "Wings" together is a very vague way of looking at our roster. But that's fine, I really would just like to at the very least get Troy on our DL team.

[NavLDO]

We have 13 guys inked up. Not counting Jenkins or AWilliams. Can only have 15. I give a bigwhoopteedo on summer league accomplishments/failures/average performances.... isn't that what we are supposed to do?

I don't think the Big Sauce will be anything more than common ketchup. I am not familiar with Jenkins' game as I probably didn't watch more than 2 full games in the last 50. The other Williams ? Stash him in the D for safe keeping if you are that impressed. We have enough 'moppers' as is.

I'd get rid of Archie in that case.

That's the decision I was alluding to. Either you keep Archie and try and give it one last shot at fixing his jumper and trying to get some consistent productivity from him or you move him and bring in a new experiment in this Troy Williams, who I'm not overly impressed with but am willing to give him a fair go. I just don't think it's productive to have two wings, both fighting for garbage minutes and neither having the consistent jumpshot to fit in the modern NBA.

I agree with your sentiment; but as I posted in my last post, big difference in SG and SF, and a our roster sits right now, which is my assumption w don't make any more moves, we have:

Knight, Bledsoe, Barbosa, Booker, Goodwin, Ulis, and maybe Jenkins, and let's face it, if needed, Tucker could play some SG

At SF we have Tucker, Warren, and maybe Bender.

At PF we have Dudley and Chriss, and again, maybe Bender.

I just think a SF or PF is more important to our roster than a stable of 7 Guards.

And if McD has a better option, like, oh, IDK, attempting S&T for Harkless, then I'd pick Troy Williams over Jenkins or Goodwin.

[NavLDO]

Did you watch any of summer league?

Only highlights. Couldn't find a feed. But I did watch the games last season when Archie was playing a lot more at the PG position and I'm not confident he's an option at the PG position. He can handle the ball in spates but not consistently.

Well, Archie shot 26% from 3 in college, and 23% this year. 14% as a rookie. Troy hit some 3s but I guess he was sub 30 in summer league. However, he shot 46% from 3 as a soph (on limited volume) and 35% on higher volume this past year. But mostly he is 6'7, and a true wing and a super athlete.

I think we've seen enough from Archie. I'd rather not lose this guy and see him potentially blossom with another team. Now there is a very good chance he doesn't but he was very impressive.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/Tjonessltrib/status/754457550104371200[/tweet]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_U-LwmtmLSg[/youtube]

That video didn't even show his super dunks in some of his other games, but showed he does have skills in some other areas.

SEEE!!! That's what I'm saying. If we lose Troy to another team so we can keep Jenkins and/or Goodwin (two guys that no team is clamoring for), then I'm gonna be all sorts of disappointed.

[NavLDO]

I can't believe y'all with this summer league hype. Is this your guys first year watching summer league? What about Dionte Xmas, Seth Curry etc....

Williams and kuric...

Insane y'all want to waive Archie for that. We know exactly what summer league brings. I had to pull Archie Goodwin stats from summer league in his 1st and 2nd year. I can't wrap my head around this one at all. He also has NBA Exp? Is hitting that age when he might make a leap just wow

I'm not sure how much time you want to give him but I'm also not sure how much he even wants to be on the team. He was the only young guy not hanging with the team in all their off season activities and workouts and stuff. Not sure if they even feel he is much of a part of the team anymore.

Not to mention, the position. Right now, I'd rather go with Jenkins than Archie, and say what you want about Archie being younger and this might be his year, etc., etc., but right now, Troy Williams potentially offers more to this roster than Archie does, and while I get that it's easy to get excited and 'over-enthused' about SL play, it's not only that. Troy Williams seemed to have shown some promise in his soph/junior years in college, so add the two together, then take position need into account, and yes, I'd rather take Williams at half the cost of Archie right now. Troy averaged, per 40 almost 11 TRB his Soph year and 9 TRB, 13pts, and about 72% FTs...nothing spectacular, but not bad either, especially the TRBs. Those are good numbers for a SF.

[NavLDO]

Might as well get it over with and sign Stat and GGreen then call it an off season. A win for the marketing team and we are no worse than having a couple extra dumpster divers in Williams X2.

It's a shame we missed out on Diaw and Joe Johnson. Is Marion still playing? And man, why couldn't we hire Nash as coach?









Let me know if green font was needed.

actually I was thinking something in a nice lavender

But really.... you think that is a far off suggestion? But would you have swallowed a Dudley PF and Barbo SG acquisition a week before they happened? ... On both, you could see the rose glasses fog up a little before the positive spin sunk in and the old love resurfaced. Heck, I'll take Stat over JDud, even with his wooden legs and if you want dunks ??? Who better is available. Both are looking to get on somewhere. Both will, and likely cheap.

I cannot be surprised by McMully anymore. Might as well maximize the nostalgic dollar appeal. Its not like BigSauce and LittleSauce will make this season anymore palatable.

Valid argument. Stat would put butts in seats, even if only for 15mpg. He likely could not command much. And if we're being honest Duds would be best suited as a "Stretch 4", so unless we are giving Chriss major minutes, that leaves Tucker playing 4. But actually, I wonder if the FO/Watson are considering Warren playing more minutes at the 4 this year. If he truly is 6'9", and assuming he 'swole' to about 235-240, that might not me a terrible idea. It's not like we have any other great defensive options to go against opposing 4s, right?

[NavLDO]

I'm not sure how much time you want to give him but I'm also not sure how much he even wants to be on the team. He was the only young guy not hanging with the team in all their off season activities and workouts and stuff. Not sure if they even feel he is much of a part of the team anymore.

How much time you willing to give bender at #4? He seems 2-3 seasons away from being impactful. Archie at 18,19 balled in summer league. Williams and Kuric at age 21,26 didn't impress the way he did at his age. We all know Jeff hornacek didn't play young players. Len barely cracked minutes along with Archie. **** he wouldn't even mess with booker much and almost every game thread why is PJ in and not Warren.


He had some big scoring games unlike all other current and past summer league guys fighting for a spot he can create on his own. Does it well too just was really young and still is.

Was listening to KTAR they had a recap of summer league they also feel Archie should play over barbosa if not trade the kid which I wouldn't do..not at this point They feel he's ready.

They talk about him at 21:30 ish
http://arizonasports.com/story/742335/suns-summer-league-success-stories-dragan-bender-marquese-chriss/

Agreed.


Also did Warren and Len hang around the "young" guys also?

I only noticed the rookies, Booker, Undrafted players and Bledsoe occasionally hanging out.


Goodwin was a Summer league star and has shown glimpse againts Lowry, Westbrook, Rubio etc. All very good players... Goodwin has experience... Even had huge 20 point games, had a 17 point 12 assists game.. Even showed amazing defense against the Hawks... Which shows that if he focuses and put 100% effort he could be a shut down player. A couple of buzzer beaters also shows he is NOT scared to be the guy. His shot has improved every year not just stats wise but form wise.
He is top 3 on Suns in regards to PPS also.

Waive him?? Lol

This is ridiculous.
Archie has shown so much to just waive him.

I like Ulis, he will likely be an NBA player for a while. But the other undrafted guys arent up to it. Would not consider letting Goodwin go for those guys.



For some fans here...
Picture the team 25 games in and is below 0.500. And outside top 10 Western conference.

Would you guys still want Barbosa and other veteran bench players getting minutes over the rookies and the under 23 year old players?

Fair enough, but I don't think anyone feels we should 'waive' Archie, but surely we could get a bench 4/5 for him from someone. If you view him as a PG, is he going to get minutes ahead of Ulis? IDK, I'm seriously asking. If you view him as a SG, will he get minutes ahead of Jenkins?

I'd keep him if we can trade Knight...absolutely, but if 4 teams are lining up to give Troy Williams a contract, and you feel Archie is more valuable than Williams, than we should be able to trade Archie for something useful AND sign Troy Williams. Fact of the matter is, we need Forwards more than we need Guards.

[rsavaj]

Guarantee Big Sauce, don't guarantee Jenkins, sign Troy Williams, move Archie for a pick

Bledsoe/Ulis
Knight/Booker/Barbosa
Tucker/Warren/TWilliams
Dudley/Bender/Chriss
Chandler/Len/AWilliams

Hooray.

Can anyone point to a pair of starting forwards in this league as offensively anemic as PJ Tucker and Jared Dudley?

...

No? Then why do people keeping thinking they'll start?

An almost complete lack of options? Tucker started for us last year and with Tele and Leuer gone, we're down to either starting Dudley or throwing one of the rookies in there. Although, personally I'm hoping that Warren is given a chance at the spot. But Ryan did say in an interview that Dudley would likely begin the season as our starting power forward.

Yeah I'm just going off of what McDonough said. We know Bledsoe is the starter at PG, and we know Dudley is the starter at PF.

I suppose every other position is up for grabs, but given that Warren is recovering from injury, I think it's likely that Tucker starts the season as the starter at SF, and while I would hope Len could beat out Chandler in training camp, I'm just penciling it Chandler as the starter by default.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Can anyone point to a pair of starting forwards in this league as offensively anemic as PJ Tucker and Jared Dudley?

...

No? Then why do people keeping thinking they'll start?

An almost complete lack of options? Tucker started for us last year and with Tele and Leuer gone, we're down to either starting Dudley or throwing one of the rookies in there. Although, personally I'm hoping that Warren is given a chance at the spot. But Ryan did say in an interview that Dudley would likely begin the season as our starting power forward.

Yeah I'm just going off of what McDonough said. We know Bledsoe is the starter at PG, and we know Dudley is the starter at PF.

I suppose every other position is up for grabs, but given that Warren is recovering from injury, I think it's likely that Tucker starts the season as the starter at SF, and while I would hope Len could beat out Chandler in training camp, I'm just penciling it Chandler as the starter by default.

I mean, you're essentially saying you're not thinking about PJ/TJ.

The foot. It's a broken foot. It's July and he's running. I don't see why TJ wouldn't be ready for regular season. Given that, is there any good reason, from a basketball perspective, team perspective, or otherwise, why PJ would start over TJ?

Maybe this is because I'm a fan of exactly one team in one sport, but I don't see how any other Suns fan could think PJ starts this season. Even if TJ were injured, I would think we start Bled/Knight/Booker.

[Frank Lee]

.....

SEEE!!! That's what I'm saying. If we lose Troy to another team so we can keep Jenkins and/or Goodwin (two guys that no team is clamoring for), then I'm gonna be all sorts of disappointed.

Seriously.... this is a 13th+ man you are clamoring for. Dude, you gotta watch more games.

Yeah I'm just going off of what McDonough said. We know Bledsoe is the starter at PG, and we know Dudley is the starter at PF.

We look like we will play defense by match up... and at times be running a 4guard 1Center line up.... but you can call Dudley or Pj or TJ PFs if you want. Seems to be working for McMully.

I guess they plan on about 20+ minutes to Chriss Bender, who ever can stay on the court long enough.

[GetYourPHX]

Archie is the classic example of a 'Play me or trade me' player. No way he re-signs next year with out playing time this year. Problem is, he likely has no significant value as a trade chip solo.

On the out looking in, any GM can see if they wait, the Suns will eventually waive him. He is not going to like riding pine again, especially after signing Barbasoso. That completely muddled any future he had here. Barbs = great for the locker room ??? Sure, once Goodwin goes. Was Barbs a Sarver grab or another McMully FA muck up?

There may be questions about his talent, but its a clear sign to me the FO really doesn't have Goodwin in their plans. I see a buy out / waive coming his way, sooner the better. He'll be happy to get it so he can move on.

Arrivederci Arch, in bocca al lupo

Frank - you have an eloquent way of making certain qualities in players sound like flaws. Archie Goodwin has made it clear he wants to play professional basketball at the highest level. In a league that is rife with talented players who have no passion for the game, I consider that a good quality. Archie can make as big of a stink as he wants about playing time, but we control his rights for the next two years. I'm sure his agent is telling him this. Two years is loooooong time in the NBA, so let's stop pushing this FO to give up on young assets prematurely. Archie has an opportunity to be a free agent at 23 years old. His career is far from dead if he only gets bench minutes in Phoenix for the rest of his time here.

I always circle back to saying this when this board brings up the "young guys aren't going to get enough playing time" argument. The vets "holding these guys back" are 31 year old P.J. Tucker, 31 year old Jared Dudley, 33 year old post-acl tear Leandro Barbosa, and 33 year old Tyson Chandler. No one on that list is a superstar that demands playing time. The fact is, if our young guys can't beat these guys out, they're probably just not that good.

I know that's a startling revelation for many Suns fans, but you seem to be the type that understands a hyped 18 year old doesn't always turn into Lebron James.

I miss the days where you preached patience Frank.

[NavLDO]

.....

SEEE!!! That's what I'm saying. If we lose Troy to another team so we can keep Jenkins and/or Goodwin (two guys that no team is clamoring for), then I'm gonna be all sorts of disappointed.

Seriously.... this is a 13th+ man you are clamoring for. Dude, you gotta watch more games.

Well, considering FO from multiple teams that DO watch enough are interested in signing, I'd say my assessment isn't that far off.

Yeah I'm just going off of what McDonough said. We know Bledsoe is the starter at PG, and we know Dudley is the starter at PF.

We look like we will play defense by match up... and at times be running a 4guard 1Center line up.... but you can call Dudley or Pj or TJ PFs if you want. Seems to be working for McMully.

I guess they plan on about 20+ minutes to Chriss Bender, who ever can stay on the court long enough.

[bwgood77]

Archie is the classic example of a 'Play me or trade me' player. No way he re-signs next year with out playing time this year. Problem is, he likely has no significant value as a trade chip solo.

On the out looking in, any GM can see if they wait, the Suns will eventually waive him. He is not going to like riding pine again, especially after signing Barbasoso. That completely muddled any future he had here. Barbs = great for the locker room ??? Sure, once Goodwin goes. Was Barbs a Sarver grab or another McMully FA muck up?

There may be questions about his talent, but its a clear sign to me the FO really doesn't have Goodwin in their plans. I see a buy out / waive coming his way, sooner the better. He'll be happy to get it so he can move on.

Arrivederci Arch, in bocca al lupo

Frank - you have an eloquent way of making certain qualities in players sound like flaws. Archie Goodwin has made it clear he wants to play professional basketball at the highest level. In a league that is rife with talented players who have no passion for the game, I consider that a good quality. Archie can make as big of a stink as he wants about playing time, but we control his rights for the next two years. I'm sure his agent is telling him this. Two years is loooooong time in the NBA, so let's stop pushing this FO to give up on young assets prematurely. Archie has an opportunity to be a free agent at 23 years old. His career is far from dead if he only gets bench minutes in Phoenix for the rest of his time here.

I always circle back to saying this when this board brings up the "young guys aren't going to get enough playing time" argument. The vets "holding these guys back" are 31 year old P.J. Tucker, 31 year old Jared Dudley, 33 year old post-acl tear Leandro Barbosa, and 33 year old Tyson Chandler. No one on that list is a superstar that demands playing time. The fact is, if our young guys can't beat these guys out, they're probably just not that good.

I know that's a startling revelation for many Suns fans, but you seem to be the type that understands a hyped 18 year old doesn't always turn into Lebron James.

I miss the days where you preached patience Frank.

I really can't understand why we signed Barbosa. Between that and Jenkins pushing his guarantee date back, it sounds like McD was trying to make some sort of deal to clear out a guard, and I assume most would think that is Knight. I thought Knight might be unhappy but then the comments yesterday clearly didn't sound that way (not that any positive comments should preclude a guy from getting traded). Personally I don't care what we do with Goodwin. I don't know that I waive him, but you probably wouldn't get much more than a top 55 protected 2nd for him anyway. Jenkins is probably the better player (certainly the better shooter which is really what you should want a guy to be able to do if he is your 12th-15th guy) and we control him the next two years as well if we want.

[bwgood77]

.....

SEEE!!! That's what I'm saying. If we lose Troy to another team so we can keep Jenkins and/or Goodwin (two guys that no team is clamoring for), then I'm gonna be all sorts of disappointed.

Seriously.... this is a 13th+ man you are clamoring for. Dude, you gotta watch more games.

Well, considering FO from multiple teams that DO watch enough are interested in signing, I'd say my assessment isn't that far off.

Yeah I'm just going off of what McDonough said. We know Bledsoe is the starter at PG, and we know Dudley is the starter at PF.

We look like we will play defense by match up... and at times be running a 4guard 1Center line up.... but you can call Dudley or Pj or TJ PFs if you want. Seems to be working for McMully.

I guess they plan on about 20+ minutes to Chriss Bender, who ever can stay on the court long enough.

And since Frank only watched a couple of the last 50 games or so, after last year I am accustomed to watching the 13th+ players out there (who played quite a bit over the last 50 games), so at least I want some entertainment.