Deandre Ayton news and highlights

[WeekapaugGroove]

You can take two views with Ayton. A pessimist view points at the things he doesn't do well. The optimistic view sees those things but also sees him putting up some good production so thinks if he works to improve then he would really kill it by adding to his already decent numbers.

The testyness of this discussion is predictable. The whole doncic/ayton debate was strong pre draft. So you have some doncic supporters who are loving pointing and saying they were right. Then you have some folks who were huge ayton supporters that are gonna die on that hill no matter what. Then you probably have some ayton supporters who had unrealistic expectations and now have turned on him because they are kind of pissed they backed the wrong horse.

Personally I preferred doncic and think he's gonna be great but I liked Ayton too and I'm not super down on him, there's enough talent there where if he works hard and takes coaching he can be an all-star.

Im also not the least bit surprised that doncic is better right now. He was obviously more polished coming in. If the suns took Ayton thinking he would be the better player this year they were dumb, you take Ayton over him because of his insane natural gifts and the thought he had a higher upside.

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[suns91fan]

If Booker is out, next few games are a huge test for Igor, more than Ayton.

If he can't run an offense inside around Deandre, who even playing soft should be going to the line 8-10 times per game, Kokoskov is not the coach for this team.

At this point I'll give a rookie C credit for buying in to a coach's system even if it doesn't benefit him much. But if a coach can't draw some plays for the Nr 1 pick, then maybe it is not a coincidence he was an assistent all this time.

Getting to the line 8-10 times per game is just a wishful thinking. That's Embiid level. He doesn't have the game for it. After watching the first 10 games or so, and missing most of the games since then, i've seen him drive to the basket exactly once, in a game against Raptors. I've seen Holmes the other day get the ball at the three point line and then straight bulldoze to the basket (and missed). I can't even picture Ayton doing something like that right now. Kinda makes me wonder if he has any handles at all.

[WeekapaugGroove]

If Booker is out, next few games are a huge test for Igor, more than Ayton.

If he can't run an offense inside around Deandre, who even playing soft should be going to the line 8-10 times per game, Kokoskov is not the coach for this team.

At this point I'll give a rookie C credit for buying in to a coach's system even if it doesn't benefit him much. But if a coach can't draw some plays for the Nr 1 pick, then maybe it is not a coincidence he was an assistent all this time.

Getting to the line 8-10 times per game is just a wishful thinking. That's Embiid level. He doesn't have the game for it. After watching the first 10 games or so, and missing most of the games since then, i've seen him drive to the basket exactly once, in a game against Raptors. I've seen Holmes the other day get the ball at the three point line and then straight bulldoze to the basket (and missed). I can't even picture Ayton doing something like that right now. Kinda makes me wonder if he has any handles at all.

He doesn't have a dribble drive game yet, he rarely ever did it in college either. But that's absolutely a skill a guy can develop.

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[MrMiyagi]

If Booker is out, next few games are a huge test for Igor, more than Ayton.

If he can't run an offense inside around Deandre, who even playing soft should be going to the line 8-10 times per game, Kokoskov is not the coach for this team.

At this point I'll give a rookie C credit for buying in to a coach's system even if it doesn't benefit him much. But if a coach can't draw some plays for the Nr 1 pick, then maybe it is not a coincidence he was an assistent all this time.

Getting to the line 8-10 times per game is just a wishful thinking. That's Embiid level. He doesn't have the game for it. After watching the first 10 games or so, and missing most of the games since then, i've seen him drive to the basket exactly once, in a game against Raptors. I've seen Holmes the other day get the ball at the three point line and then straight bulldoze to the basket (and missed). I can't even picture Ayton doing something like that right now. Kinda makes me wonder if he has any handles at all.

He doesn't have a dribble drive game yet, he rarely ever did it in college either. But that's absolutely a skill a guy can develop.

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Holmes also never has 2 defenders in the vicinity when he might get the ball like Ayton does. Opposing defenses cheat so hard towards him. Booker was really starting to figure out how to navigate the pick and roll with him - all he was really missing was better passing to Ayton - so it's a shame he'll be out again, though I am looking forward to seeing what Okobo and Jackson can bring during this stretch.

[sunsbg]

If Booker is out, next few games are a huge test for Igor, more than Ayton.

If he can't run an offense inside around Deandre, who even playing soft should be going to the line 8-10 times per game, Kokoskov is not the coach for this team.

At this point I'll give a rookie C credit for buying in to a coach's system even if it doesn't benefit him much. But if a coach can't draw some plays for the Nr 1 pick, then maybe it is not a coincidence he was an assistent all this time.

Getting to the line 8-10 times per game is just a wishful thinking. That's Embiid level. He doesn't have the game for it. After watching the first 10 games or so, and missing most of the games since then, i've seen him drive to the basket exactly once, in a game against Raptors. I've seen Holmes the other day get the ball at the three point line and then straight bulldoze to the basket (and missed). I can't even picture Ayton doing something like that right now. Kinda makes me wonder if he has any handles at all.

He has post moves and in an era a foul is called when someone breathes on you, it's unacceptible he's shooting 2-3 FTPG. Screens are set downlow too, not only around the 3 PT line. A highschool coach can draw such plays. And not everybody should go hard from the FT line like Holmes and throw floaters, while being 7-1.

[WeekapaugGroove]

With Booker out they need to forcefeed okobo ayton pick and rolls. It might not be pretty at first because they are rookies but the reps would be important for each of their development.

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[bwgood77]

I know that you’re very objective. Imho you just cannot compare some stats. I don’t know if data that Gobert is the most efficient player in Nba means anything. Knowing him, we can just assume, that he’s taking very easy shots. Efficiency between different positions is just not comparable. The same goes with you stating Ayton is better in advanced stats. If he’s better, why he is much worse than Luka in RPM and RAPM? I don’t want to argue or anything, but imho all stats should be interpreted. Many stats out there are totally useless for comparison between different positions or different teams. RPM/RAPM try to minimize this problems. It’s not ideal, but at least show more objective performance of a single player and not players with who he is playing with.

RPM and RAPM are largely reliant on how good the team is. If you are on a bad team getting beaten you are going to rate lower on those rankings by default.

Ayton is not good defensively, which hurts that too.

Looking at just efficiency isn't great, but if you look at PPG along with efficiency, then it doesn't matter. A lot of non Centers are among the league leaders in efficiency. Siakam is #1, McDermott is 4th, Curry 6th, Bogdanovic 8th, Bjelica 10th, Lin 11th, Hernamgomez 12th, Brogdon 17th, Arcidiacono 19th, and Joe Harris. Some of those play smaller positions than Doncic as well, who is playing at PF. Even fellow PF Sabonis ranks 2nd overall in efficiency.

And how many of them has only 30% assisted shots? Even Curry has more. We both know that Doncic is not playing Pf in offense. Sabonis has around 70% of his shot assisted, Luka around 30%. They’re totally different players.
No stats are ideal, but RPM/RAPM at least try to show some picture, other are mostly much worse or in some cases totally misleading for comparison between different teams.

No need to continue with this debate, we won’t come to the conclusion. I can agree that Ayton has better efficiency numbers, but imho that doesn’t mean anything. You’re saying that Ayton has better advanced stats, but imho RPM/RAPM shows that’s not the case. Nothing wrong with different options.

RPM and RAPM are good if you are comparing players on the same team or teams with similar records. That's really it. They are also much more accurate as the season goes on and schedules even up a bit. The Suns have played the toughest schedule as of now. http://www.espn.com/nba/stats/rpi/_/sort/SOS

I do understand Luka has a lot of unassisted shots, which is impressive, but scoring on higher efficiency is still preferable.

Ayton is also double teamed in the middle all the time.

And I said Ayton has better stats in several categories, raw and advanced, after Archx said Doncic was better by every metric.

[bwgood77]

With Booker out they need to forcefeed okobo ayton pick and rolls. It might not be pretty at first because they are rookies but the reps would be important for each of their development.

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I was thinking this too. Being rookies who are close, they just need to continue on working on developing chemistry, their lobs, the pick n roll, etc. Especially if Booker is out for an extended period of time.

[NapoleonII]

I'd like to just see more period from him down-low. Jab steps and pump fakes from 12-15 feet, bumping down low when he has positition, turning around and firing his hooks/fadeways.

He has all of these tools, he just needs the in-game rhythm and most importantly, the damn ball.

[bwgood77]

If Booker is out, next few games are a huge test for Igor, more than Ayton.

If he can't run an offense inside around Deandre, who even playing soft should be going to the line 8-10 times per game, Kokoskov is not the coach for this team.

At this point I'll give a rookie C credit for buying in to a coach's system even if it doesn't benefit him much. But if a coach can't draw some plays for the Nr 1 pick, then maybe it is not a coincidence he was an assistent all this time.

We are outmatched with Booker most nights. How can you expect a rookie PG and rookie C to thrive THAT much, especially with our top scorer (maybe top 2) out? Ayton is already breaking records and joining lists with Shaq and Duncan and that's not enough on offense. It's crazy. Those guys also played 3 and 4 years in college.

[sunsbg]

If Booker is out, next few games are a huge test for Igor, more than Ayton.

If he can't run an offense inside around Deandre, who even playing soft should be going to the line 8-10 times per game, Kokoskov is not the coach for this team.

At this point I'll give a rookie C credit for buying in to a coach's system even if it doesn't benefit him much. But if a coach can't draw some plays for the Nr 1 pick, then maybe it is not a coincidence he was an assistent all this time.

We are outmatched with Booker most nights. How can you expect a rookie PG and rookie C to thrive THAT much, especially with our top scorer (maybe top 2) out? Ayton is already breaking records and joining lists with Shaq and Duncan and that's not enough on offense. It's crazy. Those guys also played 3 and 4 years in college.

Hmm, I had the impression you are down on Ayton, while most of my posts are in his defense. Not that I don't find reasons to criticize him, but there are other posters already fed with it.

All I'm saying, Igor is now forced to use him more with Booker out and it will finally show if he has plays for a big man in his book. He claims he wants Ayton to dunk 10 times a game, but the first time the team fed him in the post against LA was 9 mins before the end of the game. He scored btw. Next play they tried it again, but a pass by Okobo resulted in a turnover. So far only JJ (maybe JC) has shown a good chemistry with him, Okobo is too slow and rethinks all his moves, maybe half of Devin's turnovers are from passes to Deandre.

Not expecting anything in regards to wins, which is sad as the schedule gets much easier, but with Booker out it probably won't matter. Ayton playing hard and Kokoskov using him more inside will be enough for me.

[bigfoot]

Fuel to light a fire under Ayton

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/251791/Trae-Young-Luka-Doncic-Named-Rookies-Of-The-Month-For-Oct-Nov

[bwgood77]

If Booker is out, next few games are a huge test for Igor, more than Ayton.

If he can't run an offense inside around Deandre, who even playing soft should be going to the line 8-10 times per game, Kokoskov is not the coach for this team.

At this point I'll give a rookie C credit for buying in to a coach's system even if it doesn't benefit him much. But if a coach can't draw some plays for the Nr 1 pick, then maybe it is not a coincidence he was an assistent all this time.

We are outmatched with Booker most nights. How can you expect a rookie PG and rookie C to thrive THAT much, especially with our top scorer (maybe top 2) out? Ayton is already breaking records and joining lists with Shaq and Duncan and that's not enough on offense. It's crazy. Those guys also played 3 and 4 years in college.

Hmm, I had the impression you are down on Ayton, while most of my posts are in his defense. Not that I don't find reasons to criticize him, but there are other posters already fed with it.

All I'm saying, Igor is now forced to use him more with Booker out and it will finally show if he has plays for a big man in his book. He claims he wants Ayton to dunk 10 times a game, but the first time the team fed him in the post against LA was 9 mins before the end of the game. He scored btw. Next play they tried it again, but a pass by Okobo resulted in a turnover. So far only JJ (maybe JC) has shown a good chemistry with him, Okobo is too slow and rethinks all his moves, maybe half of Devin's turnovers are from passes to Deandre.

Not expecting anything in regards to wins, which is sad as the schedule gets much easier, but with Booker out it probably won't matter. Ayton playing hard and Kokoskov using him more inside will be enough for me.

It depends on whether or not people can get him the ball. Okobo if he starts will be starting his 1st game. Booker (and maybe Warren) won't be there for defenders to have to pay attention to. So Ayton might be the defensive focus for a while, which will make things tougher.

As for Ayton, I've always been very high on his offense and rebounding (though sometimes I felt he could have done a little better rebounding, but averaging over 10 as a rookie is phenomenal). His passing is better than I expected and his 1 on 1 defense is good. There have been a few times his rotation and help defense showed up, but this is where I hope he improves, and of course the rim protection.

I talk about them all, but when I point out weaknesses it has upset some people in the past, so perhaps I will focus less on those and more on times I feel he is progressing in those areas. He's hasn't even played 25 NBA games yet, so we can't expect too much, and we knew some of the other bigs were better defensively but not nearly the rebounders or offensive players that Ayton is.

[Archx]

Fuel to light a fire under Ayton

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/251791/Trae-Young-Luka-Doncic-Named-Rookies-Of-The-Month-For-Oct-Nov

Still can't believe there is no better rookie in the eastern conference than Young. Apart from his assists, he has no impact whatsoever. Also, he is statistically the worst defender in the NBA... How does a guy like that even get recognized.. Poor shot selection, poor shot % along with it... damn.

[oddity]

Yeah of course Luka was named rookie of the west in November. Because he's clearly another league above Ayton. It is humiliating watching Ayton struggle against Boban and Javale McGee every knight while Luka plays winning basketball, carrying the Mavs to actual wins. Meanwhile it was more than obvious for YEARS who the better player was, and we STILL manage to **** that up. Sell the god damn team Sarver

[Midnight_Suns]

If Booker is out, next few games are a huge test for Igor, more than Ayton.

If he can't run an offense inside around Deandre, who even playing soft should be going to the line 8-10 times per game, Kokoskov is not the coach for this team.

At this point I'll give a rookie C credit for buying in to a coach's system even if it doesn't benefit him much. But if a coach can't draw some plays for the Nr 1 pick, then maybe it is not a coincidence he was an assistent all this time.

Getting to the line 8-10 times per game is just a wishful thinking. That's Embiid level. He doesn't have the game for it. After watching the first 10 games or so, and missing most of the games since then, i've seen him drive to the basket exactly once, in a game against Raptors. I've seen Holmes the other day get the ball at the three point line and then straight bulldoze to the basket (and missed). I can't even picture Ayton doing something like that right now. Kinda makes me wonder if he has any handles at all.

He has post moves and in an era a foul is called when someone breathes on you, it's unacceptible he's shooting 2-3 FTPG. Screens are set downlow too, not only around the 3 PT line. A highschool coach can draw such plays. And not everybody should go hard from the FT line like Holmes and throw floaters, while being 7-1.

The lack of cross screens for him is a joke. It's literally in the first plays you learn in organized basketball.

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[lilfishi22]

To give Ayton some slack, Doncic is playing on a much better team as is evident from them beating the 15-6 Clippers even without Luka. So it's not like Doncic is dragging Dallas to a winning record all by himself while Ayton struggles to do so.

Yeah, I think that Ayton is the least of our problems.

I know that he is not a good defender for now, but other than that he is making his job as a rookie starting C.

Some people had superhigh expectations for him... but he can not change all the bad stuff that have been happening in the franchise for years and years. So many bad decisions.

In the last few games he has played a bit worse because he looks tired, and with Warren and Booker out he is more exposed. It is normal. He is playing 32 mpg in the NBA as a starter and with big responsibilities since day one.

He needs to improve his conditioning and that is easier to fix in the NBA than other things.

We need to remember that he is just 20 and he is playing so many games for the first time in his career. A better conditioning is gonna be huge for his overall defense and motor.

He's not a problem offensively but Ayton playing the 5 and that position is generally where you get rim protection from makes him no small part in our defensive problems. It's not all him because our perimeter defense is porous but his inability to protect the rim isn't a small problem. And considering it's our defense that's probably more the problem than our offense, I would have to say that Ayton is a considerable part of why we're unable to stop players scoring efficiently against us.

But this was expected or at least should have been expected by the Suns fan base when we drafted him so we shouldn't expect him to be part of the solution at least this season. Again I'm not putting this all on him because defense starts in the perimeter where we do have players a number of rotation players who just aren't that good defensively but the defense ends at the rim where we just don't have competent rim protections.

[wheezy]

The biggest problem with comparing Ayton to a girl, is that it's demeaning to girls. I don't mean that in a way to knock Ayton, but it is implying all girls are a certain way.

Like I said ... spoilers demeaning to girls as well. My daughter is a Suns fan and I would expect she would be ticked at some of the non-PC things on this board. You either go PC all the way or not. Halfway is a bad place to be sitting.

Wut

[TOO]

The biggest problem with comparing Ayton to a girl, is that it's demeaning to girls. I don't mean that in a way to knock Ayton, but it is implying all girls are a certain way.

Like I said ... spoilers demeaning to girls as well. My daughter is a Suns fan and I would expect she would be ticked at some of the non-PC things on this board. You either go PC all the way or not. Halfway is a bad place to be sitting.

Wut

I identify as spaghetti.

[MrMiyagi]

Like I said ... spoilers demeaning to girls as well. My daughter is a Suns fan and I would expect she would be ticked at some of the non-PC things on this board. You either go PC all the way or not. Halfway is a bad place to be sitting.

Wut

I identify as spaghetti.

Saucy