Hunt For An ARIZAnable - Trade is OUBRE! - Final Poll results

[KLEON]

No offense, but I hope Melton ends up a hell of a lot better than Avery Bradley, who is a tremendously awful offensive player and an overrated defender, and has been for most of his career. He shouldn't even be playing on that LAC team right now.

Just stop, you are embarrassing yourself

[Frank Lee]

Listening to sports radio today and the Blazer pre game stuff came on. They were saying Doncic was the "obvious first pick" and that he's by far the best pick of the draft. I mean not even a squeak about Ayton. I'm not taking anything away from Doncic because I think hes an amazing talent and will only get better, I just feel like its a bit of injustice to Ayton with the numbers hes putting up that only can be topped in the last 30 years by the likes of Robinson, Hakeem, Shaq and maybe a couple others I've left out.

It was the chosen narrative for the season before the season began. Doncic is good, but I think when all is said and done, Ayton will be remembered alongside the great bigs of all time (if he continues to learn from his mistakes and continues to be aggressive). I feel like Doncic already gets treated like a superstar, which in the NBA means you get so much more from refs, whereas Ayton is going to have to earn it. I bet if Ayton was drafted anywhere else, he'd be the talk of the league, but when it's the Suns, the national media just scoff. It's kind of infuriating, but I'm used to it.

DELAyton will take some time, but if he continues to click off 20+/12+ per night, they wont be able to ignore him. This last game, he could have scored at will, but we only have one or two guys who have ever heard of an entry pass. Its frustrating to watch .... but the potential is easily there for him to put up 20+ per night. I'd say he's at about 75% of his overall ability, and I may be underestimated his ceiling, but a ways away from anointing him a surefired superstar.

The question remains... who is the next PG ? We need one who can feed DA and shift the focus off Booker, play a little D and get everyone involved.... How is that not Rubio ?

[WeekapaugGroove]

No offense, but I hope Melton ends up a hell of a lot better than Avery Bradley, who is a tremendously awful offensive player and an overrated defender, and has been for most of his career. He shouldn't even be playing on that LAC team right now.

Just stop, you are embarrassing yourself

Depends on what narrative you want to believe. Opponents talk about him like he's an all world defender but advanced stats aren't kind to him. My guess is it's some where in between, he can be great on the ball but gambles a little too much and maybe isn't the most sound team defender.

Now the last couple years due to injury and maybe system he's just kind of been a bad player.

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[Kerrsed]

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[LukasBMW]

The latest Kyrie comments and the KD/Draymond situation is exactly why you always "play the game." Everything can change in a NY minute. Kawai, Kyrie, Draymond, and KD are not locks to resign with their current teams.

My Christmas dream scenario: Warriors keep KD at the expense of Green. We max Green and then trade Jackson/Anderson, our 2019 1st, the bucks pick, and an unprotected 2020 1st for Lillard.

We resign Oubre and Holmes

Lillard/Melton/Okobo
Booker/Bridges
TJ/Oubre
Green
Ayton/Holmes

[darealjuice]

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I'd check in on this, but I also liked DSJ before the draft

[BobbieL]

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I'd check in on this, but I also liked DSJ before the draft

I just saw this too but is Smith Jr better than Melton or Okobo. I guess if you move Jackson or Oubre for him - it might free up cap space for a true 4 next summer.

[darealjuice]

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I'd check in on this, but I also liked DSJ before the draft

I just saw this too but is Smith Jr better than Melton or Okobo. I guess if you move Jackson or Oubre for him - it might free up cap space for a true 4 next summer.

I think he's definitely better than them. It's been a weird year with his playmaking responsibilities being taken a bit by Doncic, but he has a lot of potential.

[BobbieL]

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I'd check in on this, but I also liked DSJ before the draft

I just saw this too but is Smith Jr better than Melton or Okobo. I guess if you move Jackson or Oubre for him - it might free up cap space for a true 4 next summer.

I think he's definitely better than them. It's been a weird year with his playmaking responsibilities being taken a bit by Doncic, but he has a lot of potential.

I do understand the fact that with Doncic handling the ball - that would change the stats for DSJr. But would the trade be as simple as either Josh or Oubre for Dennis Smith Jr. If its Josh for Smith - not sure any draft picks need to be exchanged.

[bwgood77]

No offense, but I hope Melton ends up a hell of a lot better than Avery Bradley, who is a tremendously awful offensive player and an overrated defender, and has been for most of his career. He shouldn't even be playing on that LAC team right now.

Just stop, you are embarrassing yourself

Yeah, he was a solid 3&D guy for a good 5 years, his worst year in that stretch shooting just over 35% from 3, but twice at 39% or over, and was solid defensively too, with a good DRTG, and making All Defensive Teams twice...one first team and one second team..having great on ball and team defense. He just didn't have great counting stats that stuff like DBPM and DRPM are based on like blocks, steals, and they even count rebounding.

He just really dropped off when he joined the Clippers. I don't ever see Melton shooting that well from 3 overall and would be surprised if he ever makes all defensive teams. Unless he really improves offensively I don't see him as a capable long term starter, even on an avg team.

[bwgood77]

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I'd check in on this, but I also liked DSJ before the draft

I just saw this too but is Smith Jr better than Melton or Okobo. I guess if you move Jackson or Oubre for him - it might free up cap space for a true 4 next summer.

I think he's definitely better than them. It's been a weird year with his playmaking responsibilities being taken a bit by Doncic, but he has a lot of potential.

That's a bit surprising. I know a Mavs fan who watches every minute of every game and is very astute, and he seems to think the narrative of them not playing well together is incorrect and overblown and that they have great chemistry.

[AtheJ415]

No offense, but I hope Melton ends up a hell of a lot better than Avery Bradley, who is a tremendously awful offensive player and an overrated defender, and has been for most of his career. He shouldn't even be playing on that LAC team right now.

Just stop, you are embarrassing yourself

No. The numbers speak for themselves. Your lack of knowledge relating to them is what is embarrassing. Bradley is flaming hot garbage. If we got him for free, he shouldn't even see the floor.

[AtheJ415]

No offense, but I hope Melton ends up a hell of a lot better than Avery Bradley, who is a tremendously awful offensive player and an overrated defender, and has been for most of his career. He shouldn't even be playing on that LAC team right now.

I highly doubt Melton has a five year stretch like bradley did from age 23 to 27. If he did it'd be an absolute miracle.

Melton should've gone in the lottery. Only reason he didn't was because he sat out a year of college hoops. I think most lottery picks who play this well as a rookie are expected to put up numbers equal to or better than Bradley's. Also, Bradley's rookie year was drastically worse than Melton's so far. He had a 60 ORtg as a rookie lol.

Also, you need to look at Bradley's advanced numbers during his career. He is beyond overrated. From age 23 to 27, he had a negative BPM in 4 of the 5 years, with his only positive being a 0.2. Age 25 was really his only legitimately good year with a solid WS. Dude has NEVER had a PER above 14.4, and league average is 15. He has also NEVER had an ORtg higher than his DRtg, meaning that his team is routinely getting outscored when he is on the court. Dude has never been the player most expect. His offense has been attrocious for his entire career, and I'd argue other defensive specialists like Bev and Tucker are better (Tucker can guard more positions, Bev is a better offensive player).

The numbers speak for themselves. Remove his reputation from the criteria and you would be looking at the numbers of a guy who should not be in the league, and he has had almost 0 success since leaving Stevens.

[bwgood77]

Melton hasn't played that well as a rookie. He has a 9.8 PER and a TS% of 47%. His defense is average, though it looks superb since the rest of our team is horrid at defense outside of Bridges, and sometimes Holmes. Jackson has improved a bit defensively, but his offense is even worse than Melton's somehow.

[lilfishi22]

Listening to sports radio today and the Blazer pre game stuff came on. They were saying Doncic was the "obvious first pick" and that he's by far the best pick of the draft. I mean not even a squeak about Ayton. I'm not taking anything away from Doncic because I think hes an amazing talent and will only get better, I just feel like its a bit of injustice to Ayton with the numbers hes putting up that only can be topped in the last 30 years by the likes of Robinson, Hakeem, Shaq and maybe a couple others I've left out.

Because he fits the the prototype of today and tomorrow's offense initiator. There's way more value in being able to create for the team and for yourself from scratch, hit the 3 and play off the ball. Versatility is the key word and Luka has that in excess. And the whole comparing Aytons numbers to bigs of all is a bit pointless because those guys were far far better in their rookie season. Hakeem averaged like
21/12/3blks, Shaq put up 23/14/3.5blks and Robinson put up 24/12/4. Those guys were dominant in more ways that Ayton has yet to show. Yeah those guys were older when they came in and perhaps Ayton can put up those offensive numbers in year 2 or 3 but 17/11 just doesn't stand out especially with sub par defense. If he's a year or two away from true positional dominance then Luka is further along than narrative than Ayton.

The narrative is clearly on Luka's side but if you look at how they contribute to the team, Luka is just far more important

[cberry78]

Listening to sports radio today and the Blazer pre game stuff came on. They were saying Doncic was the "obvious first pick" and that he's by far the best pick of the draft. I mean not even a squeak about Ayton. I'm not taking anything away from Doncic because I think hes an amazing talent and will only get better, I just feel like its a bit of injustice to Ayton with the numbers hes putting up that only can be topped in the last 30 years by the likes of Robinson, Hakeem, Shaq and maybe a couple others I've left out.

Because he fits the the prototype of today and tomorrow's offense initiator. There's way more value in being able to create for the team and for yourself from scratch, hit the 3 and play off the ball. Versatility is the key word and Luka has that in excess. And the whole comparing Aytons numbers to bigs of all is a bit pointless because those guys were far far better in their rookie season. Hakeem averaged like
21/12/3blks, Shaq put up 23/14/3.5blks and Robinson put up 24/12/4. Those guys were dominant in more ways that Ayton has yet to show. Yeah those guys were older when they came in and perhaps Ayton can put up those offensive numbers in year 2 or 3 but 17/11 just doesn't stand out especially with sub par defense. If he's a year or two away from true positional dominance then Luka is further along than narrative than Ayton.

The narrative is clearly on Luka's side but if you look at how they contribute to the team, Luka is just far more important

How many of the "Great Rookie Centers" came into the league with an established offensive weapon like Booker though on their teams? How many of them had two 20 ppg scorers (Booker and Warren) already established on those teams?

I'm not saying that Ayton is better then any of them, but he's also not instantly Option #1 every time he steps on the court.

[lilfishi22]

Listening to sports radio today and the Blazer pre game stuff came on. They were saying Doncic was the "obvious first pick" and that he's by far the best pick of the draft. I mean not even a squeak about Ayton. I'm not taking anything away from Doncic because I think hes an amazing talent and will only get better, I just feel like its a bit of injustice to Ayton with the numbers hes putting up that only can be topped in the last 30 years by the likes of Robinson, Hakeem, Shaq and maybe a couple others I've left out.

Because he fits the the prototype of today and tomorrow's offense initiator. There's way more value in being able to create for the team and for yourself from scratch, hit the 3 and play off the ball. Versatility is the key word and Luka has that in excess. And the whole comparing Aytons numbers to bigs of all is a bit pointless because those guys were far far better in their rookie season. Hakeem averaged like
21/12/3blks, Shaq put up 23/14/3.5blks and Robinson put up 24/12/4. Those guys were dominant in more ways that Ayton has yet to show. Yeah those guys were older when they came in and perhaps Ayton can put up those offensive numbers in year 2 or 3 but 17/11 just doesn't stand out especially with sub par defense. If he's a year or two away from true positional dominance then Luka is further along than narrative than Ayton.

The narrative is clearly on Luka's side but if you look at how they contribute to the team, Luka is just far more important

How many of the "Great Rookie Centers" came into the league with an established offensive weapon like Booker though on their teams? How many of them had two 20 ppg scorers (Booker and Warren) already established on those teams?

I'm not saying that Ayton is better then any of them, but he's also not instantly Option #1 every time he steps on the court.

And that's why Ayton probably won't win ROY, if that matters to you

[LukasBMW]

Ayton's numbers as a rookie are significantly better then rookie Amare.

Ayton also looks like Amare on defense so far...totally worthless.

That said, Ayton has a lot of room to grow. He's still incredibly young and you can tell by the way he talks. He's still a kid! The scary part is...he is already dominating! Didn't one of the ESPN talking heads once say that all the great big men came in and dominated from DAY 1? Hard to argue that point. The future looks bright for Ayton.

[hollywood6964]

No offense, but I hope Melton ends up a hell of a lot better than Avery Bradley, who is a tremendously awful offensive player and an overrated defender, and has been for most of his career. He shouldn't even be playing on that LAC team right now.

I highly doubt Melton has a five year stretch like bradley did from age 23 to 27. If he did it'd be an absolute miracle.

Melton should've gone in the lottery. Only reason he didn't was because he sat out a year of college hoops. I think most lottery picks who play this well as a rookie are expected to put up numbers equal to or better than Bradley's. Also, Bradley's rookie year was drastically worse than Melton's so far. He had a 60 ORtg as a rookie lol.

Also, you need to look at Bradley's advanced numbers during his career. He is beyond overrated. From age 23 to 27, he had a negative BPM in 4 of the 5 years, with his only positive being a 0.2. Age 25 was really his only legitimately good year with a solid WS. Dude has NEVER had a PER above 14.4, and league average is 15. He has also NEVER had an ORtg higher than his DRtg, meaning that his team is routinely getting outscored when he is on the court. Dude has never been the player most expect. His offense has been attrocious for his entire career, and I'd argue other defensive specialists like Bev and Tucker are better (Tucker can guard more positions, Bev is a better offensive player).

The numbers speak for themselves. Remove his reputation from the criteria and you would be looking at the numbers of a guy who should not be in the league, and he has had almost 0 success since leaving Stevens.

Don't get me wrong, I didn't say Bradley is some kind of borderline all nba team player, but what I did say is what I meant. I would highly doubt it. It's always possible, nobody can see the future.

Do you think he'll have the same kind of success as Bradley from 23 to 27? Better?

[hollywood6964]

Melton hasn't played that well as a rookie. He has a 9.8 PER and a TS% of 47%. His defense is average, though it looks superb since the rest of our team is horrid at defense outside of Bridges, and sometimes Holmes. Jackson has improved a bit defensively, but his offense is even worse than Melton's somehow.

What I see when watching him play- he's ok. I see some kind of promise with him, but he's definitely not some high level talent destined to be an all star.

Now could he achieve Bradley level, sure. It's not like Bradley is/was some sort of mega star, but that, in my opinion, would really be the ceiling on a guy like Melton.

He could easily be out of the league in a few years as well, if injuries or situations do not fall right. I think to say Bradley is trash and Melton should be at least better than him is some lofty expectations, given at least what I perceive his capabilities. In other words not likely.