2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation

[bwgood77]

Which backup PG who isn't washed or too pricey is available next season?

Backup PG is definitely the priority in the offseason since Payne is clearly not the answer as the 2nd string PG.

Just noticed that Papa Ricky is a free agent next season. Now I would be all up for bringing him back but would he come back and how much does he have in the tank after his season ending injury and how soon can he come back after his ACL injury?

Jordan Clarkson is a guy I'd keep an eye on as a trade target if Utah really decides to blow it up. Could see a combination of players like Shamet, Payne, Craig or Saric shipped out.

I definitely think we will be looking more at trades to upgrade the roster than FA because of our cap situation and how shallow the FA pool is.

Isn't he older? Would probably have to be Cam. Doubt they'd want Saric...could be Crowder. I am not sure we'd want him until 2024 though.

[pj0tr]

Which backup PG who isn't washed or too pricey is available next season?

Backup PG is definitely the priority in the offseason since Payne is clearly not the answer as the 2nd string PG.

Just noticed that Papa Ricky is a free agent next season. Now I would be all up for bringing him back but would he come back and how much does he have in the tank after his season ending injury and how soon can he come back after his ACL injury?

Jordan Clarkson is a guy I'd keep an eye on as a trade target if Utah really decides to blow it up. Could see a combination of players like Shamet, Payne, Craig or Saric shipped out.

I definitely think we will be looking more at trades to upgrade the roster than FA because of our cap situation and how shallow the FA pool is.

Isn't he older? Would probably have to be Cam. Doubt they'd want Saric...could be Crowder. I am not sure we'd want him until 2024 though.

I used to think Cam Johnson was untouchable - hes cost himself a lot of money in these playoffs. Theres a pretty good chance, if the worst happens on Sunday, that Cam Johnson is traded.

[Barkley6]

Jordan Clarkson is a guy I'd keep an eye on as a trade target if Utah really decides to blow it up. Could see a combination of players like Shamet, Payne, Craig or Saric shipped out.

I definitely think we will be looking more at trades to upgrade the roster than FA because of our cap situation and how shallow the FA pool is.

Isn't he older? Would probably have to be Cam. Doubt they'd want Saric...could be Crowder. I am not sure we'd want him until 2024 though.

I used to think Cam Johnson was untouchable - hes cost himself a lot of money in these playoffs. Theres a pretty good chance, if the worst happens on Sunday, that Cam Johnson is traded.

Could definitely see Cam dealt this offseason if we lose to Dallas. I'm not sure that I want to deal him, mostly because I do think he has a lot of potential still and could fairly easily become an 18ppg scorer in this league. But I also understand the idea that we need to win now, and if we could get someone who is an immediate upgrade, I think you have to consider it.

[bwgood77]

Spoiler:

By Tim Cato, The Athletic...

Luka Doncic made his postseason debut not during the 2020 NBA bubble, but in May 2015. He was a 16-year-old academy prospect called upon to play 11 minutes in a blowout Real Madrid win against Gran Canaria in the opening game of the Liga ACB playoffs, a best-of-three first-round series in an eight-team competition.

He played his first professional elimination game — scoring nine points in 19 minutes coming off the bench in another best-of-three series — the following season against UCAM Murcia. He was 16, an established rotational player for Los Blancos, and they won that game 93-72. Real Madrid went on to beat FC Barcelona three games to one in the finals, although Doncic only played 12 total minutes in that series. He was still one season away from fully becoming an undisputed generational talent for them; two seasons away from being named the league MVP.

He played dozens more postseason games in the years that followed 2016, and several more elimination games, not to mention Slovenia’s 2017 EuroBasket run, in which his national team faced elimination in all four games after the group stage. (They beat Serbia in the final.)

In 2020, his second season in the NBA, Doncic faced the L.A. Clippers in the playoffs and scored 38 points in the season-ending Game 6 defeat. One year later, he went for 46 points and 14 assists in a Game 7 loss against the same opponent. On Thursday, Doncic won his first elimination game in the NBA, scoring 33 points to sustain the Mavericks’ season for at least one more game. But make no mistake: He’s been here before, so many times. For any other 23-year-old galactico with a more typical basketball origin story, this first would carry more weight. But not with Doncic. He’s been here too many times before.

On Thursday, the Mavericks beat the Suns 113-86 in Game 6. What will potentially be this postseason’s first Game 7 will occur Sunday. Devin Booker hasn’t ever played in one; most of the Suns have only been to the postseason once, during last season’s NBA Finals run. Doncic, though, has been raised in postseason elimination games since his formative years: real ones against Europe’s best teams, weighty ones bearing his country’s insignia upon his chest, ones which he’s won and lost, ones in which he’s played miserably but magnificently. He’s the best player in this series, with the real possibility he’s the best in the world sometime soon. One more win-or-go-home matchup does not faze him.

It’s more than Dallas could’ve ever expected six months ago when this team toiled through bad shooting performances and a dreadful start. It’s more than was anticipated even on the season’s final day when Doncic limped off the court with a muscle injury that cost him three games in the first round. But the Mavericks now have a chance to beat the league’s best team in a do-or-die series finale, and they know without question they’ll have the most transcendent player on the court representing them in this upcoming battle. It’s against the league’s best team, but trust me: Doncic has been here before.

There are two ways to look at this impending Game 7, the first being an obvious assessment of this series. The home team has dominated every matchup, to the extent that there hasn’t been a single minute of clutch basketball played throughout these six blowout wins. In Dallas, sure, the Mavericks have dominated this series. But Game 7 will be played in Phoenix, on a day named after their home team, in an arena where the 64-win juggernaut has consistently looked as such. Why shouldn’t the Suns win this closeout game?

Then again, the Mavericks have won three of the past four games in this series. Sure, they played awfully in Game 5, but it was only one disastrous quarter in which they were worse. Dallas soundly lost Games 1 and 2, shellshocked by the opening salvos of a team it had lost nine straight regular-season games to, but this team adapted in the games that followed. Jason Kidd continued his superb coaching of this team to make the appropriate adjustments: to better hide Doncic’s subpar defense; to eliminate how Phoenix created its preferred shots; to replace struggling bench players with impactful ones; to control this series’ math advantage in 3s and turnovers like the Mavericks did last round against Utah.

In Game 5, Phoenix reacted to Dallas’ defensive adjustments by having Booker instantly attack downhill when Doncic was a screen defender. Kidd reacted in Game 6 by having his team blitz every single pick-and-roll involving Booker, throwing him so out of rhythm that he often looked uncomfortable even dribbling on Thursday. Through Game 5, you could legitimately argue Booker had been better than Doncic in this series. (He’s a brilliant player.) But while Doncic dictated his team’s winning performance, Booker struggled on his way to 19 points on 6-of-17 shooting.

Again, the Suns haven’t reacted well to Dallas’ adjustments in three of the past four games. This is the league’s best team, sure, just by its deserved regular-season record. They also had the most wins (37) in the NBA since Jan. 1. But Dallas had the second-most wins (35) in that same period. Are we sure Phoenix is better? Has this team proven that over the past four games? Are there legitimate reasons to believe Dallas should lose Game 7 just because its players aren’t playing within the proximity of Reunion Tower? Or are there narrative reasons to think, well, the home teams just won all the games and will continue doing so?

Look, Game 7s are bizarre. They’re almost always a tense facsimile, both teams trying their best and often still failing to be truly themselves. They are played with different energy and tempo than any other 48 minutes you’ve ever seen. They’re must-win games, a rare instance where the tired cliche can be deployed with literalism. Dallas could hit its 3s and walk away in a blowout victory, or it could miss them all, the team’s heavy minutes since January finally grinding them down, and return home with the season having ended. Nobody knows what can or will happen in Game 7. It’s the most accurate truism in this entire damn sport.

Dallas has this series’ best player, one who has been here many times before. It has adjustments and strategy that the Suns have barely cracked in four consecutive games. It doesn’t have home-court advantage, but it has relatively little pressure. If the Mavericks lose, this has still been a successful season that pushes this franchise one step further within the grand vision to build a title contender around Doncic.

But by flying to Phoenix one more time, the Mavs might as make that trip worthwhile. And if there’s ever one player you should never bet against, it’s the one who’s been here before. That’s Luka Doncic.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Spoiler:

We need to grab a point guard who can evenly split time with CP3 next year and take over thereafter. Has to be a priority now.

I really don't think Pera will let Tyus Jones go. Money won't at all be an issue for the Grizzlies either with him as their owner. What about Tre Jones from the Spurs? He's not great, but still a good passer with a high IQ, he's not yet great offensively yet but is very good defensively, He is a solid ballhawking guard with a solid assist- turnover ratio of 5.1, only 2nd to his brother Tyus Jones 6.1?

In the bigger scale end contractually, I 'll say again that the Timberwolves will be looking to move DeAngelo Russell and the Pacers will be looking to trade Malcolm Brogdon too. Both would be around 20 million contractually. But both would be major upgrades for our current backcourt alongside of Booker. The Pacers also have Rubios' expiring and he'll be an unrestricted free agent this summer too.

I know that Russell didn't have the best playoffs for the Wolves. However, I still think he could become a very good compliment to Booker for a possible PGOTF consideration. I think he could have a resurgence in a new environment here in Phoenix. And Paul could transition to our bench IF he wants to stay in Phoenix with Monty as the best Bench leader in the entire NBA. Then he could transition to the bench or front office if he likes to retire in Phoenix!

Or we could look to trade with Indiana for Brogdon somehow since they'll be looking to move him go open up a starting position for Haliburton. Brogdon would also be very solid if we could make a trade work for him somehow?

Then of course there's Rubio in free agency. But I don't see any reason ( outside of overpaying him) that he'd consider coming back to play for us after how we treated him. Personally aside from the above pricier options or Tre Jones via trade, I think that we should really be more open to actually looking to trade into or purchase a pick in the early to mid 2nd round to start developing a better guard option to be mentored by Paul.

There are numerous very solid floor general type guards that would be upgrades to what Payne or Payton have shown to date. Once we get to the offseason, and IF there's genuine interest still, I can offer best cost effective options to upgrade our bench gusrd depth. For instance, here are 5 names of 2nd round guard gems to really look into:

1- Alondes Williams ( Wake Forest) 6'6 mix of Deron Williams/ Baron Davis.

2- Dalen Terry ( Arizona) 6'7 do it all utility combo wing whose really good at everything. A mix of Terrence Mann/ Nick Batum.

3- Andrew Nembhard ( Gonzaga) 6'6 floor general/ playmaking extraordinaire! He's a mix of Andre Miller/ much better shooting Elfrid Payton.

4- Jordan Hall ( St Josephs) a 6'7 playmaking combo wing , Kyle Anderson 2.0. Very solid !

5- Ziga Samar ( Slovenia) a 6'6 mix of a better shooting Rubio/ Dragic. He's a very smooth playmaker for his size and a very good shooter.

Both Jordan Hall and Ziga Samar might even be in the undrafted pool. Alondes Williams would be a huge upgrade as a scoring option/ ISO scorer to Payne. He's very good at breaking down defenses and has explosive athleticism and underrated flashy passing. He'll likely be in the early to mid 2nd range. Dalen Terry and Andrew Nembhard will both likely be in the mid 2nd range. Knowing this, we could actually look to move Payne or possibly even look to stretch him and replace him with one of the above mentioned options???

No on Russell...we'd have to give up Cam in S&T but I think Russell makes more...I think he maes the max...that's nuts...coem on?

Rubio? I don't think so..injury prone, getting older, can't shoot. I really like him and wouldn't mind...he loves the team and they love him..he'd have to play on the cheap though.

Again, does Tyus Jones want to eventually start or be a backup to Morant for the future? If we went after him it is up to him.

I looked at FA before. Not too many.

Best option might be use another wing and let Book play the Harden role.

We have another year though. I am worried about the CP3 decline or injuries as I have been from the start at his age, but he has been healthier the last 3 years than the previous number of years, so he may keep it up again. We just have to make sure he doesn't play a ton if he gets worn out or gets switched on and has to guard the other team's best players like Dallas has been doing for 4 games. Keep Bridges or Crowder on Luka...even Booker over Paul...or even Ayton

.

My bad on Russell, I thought for whatever reason he was making around 24 million or something. I haven't checked in on him contractually for a while and didn't realize he was making that much. So, again I apologize. Rubio FOR OUR BENCH, I don't think would be too bad at all. But again, I don't see why he'd have any interest in playing for us again after how we did him dirty! But yes, even IF he was somehow interested, it would be highly dependent on what amount he'd come for. As for Tyus Jones, We lose nothing by making him an offer. It's just my personal opinion that he'd prefer to stay with the Grizzlies. And obviously, they can pay him very generously which would definitely carry additional influence. But why not try nevertheless??? I just don't see it happening personally. What about Brogdon via trade? we'd have to lose some combination of Saric (stretch)? Payne and Craig. Johnsons' recent regression should depreciate his value somewhat and afford us a discount below what Bridges signed for I believe, So that might help somewhat? What about a minor trade for Tre Jones from the Spurs? he's fairly close to Tyus in assist to turnover ratio. And even though he's not great offensively, at the very least he's a very strong, disruptive ball-hawking defender and high IQ playmaker too.

Lastly, on the cheap end of the scale, we could look to buy or trade into the 2nd round of the 2022 draft. There are actually a number of really solid guard and playmaking combo wings throughout such as Alondes Williams, Dalen Terry, Andrew Nembhard and even some projected to range in the undrafted pool too such as Jordan Hall, Ziga Samar all have significant size from 6'5 -6'7 and would be legitimate upgrades to Payne for our bench. Getting any of these prospects would clearly be an absolute steal for us and really stabilize our bench playmaking/ depth. Look into them briefly and tell me they wouldn't be an upgrade to what Payne has been providing? and at a fraction of the cost. I'm fairly sure (even with his recent struggles) that we could offload Payne for a late first to early 2nd to a team looking for a potential bench boost. Especially for any teams that don't even have any reasonable bench guard option (aside from us) and are somewhat desperate for any type of upgrade? Orlando, Sacramento, and Minnesota all have multiple 2nd round picks. Could any of them possibly have interest in Payne or Craig? get a 2nd and take back a smaller salary or an expiring in the deal and get a 2nd out of it. Then stretch Saric for further savings??? We need to build up both Craigs' and Payne s' value if possible heading into the offseason for this very purpose.

[bwgood77]

My bad on Russell, I thought for whatever reason he was making around 24 million or something. I haven't checked in on him contractually for a while and didn't realize he was making that much. So, again I apologize. Rubio FOR OUR BENCH, I don't think would be too bad at all. But again, I don't see why he'd have any interest in playing for us again after how we did him dirty! But yes, even IF he was somehow interested, it would be highly dependent on what amount he'd come for. As for Tyus Jones, We lose nothing by making him an offer. It's just my personal opinion that he'd prefer to stay with the Grizzlies. And obviously, they can pay him very generously which would definitely carry additional influence. But why not try nevertheless??? I just don't see it happening personally. What about Brogdon via trade? we'd have to lose some combination of Saric (stretch)? Payne and Craig. Johnsons' recent regression should depreciate his value somewhat and afford us a discount below what Bridges signed for I believe, So that might help somewhat? What about a minor trade for Tre Jones from the Spurs? he's fairly close to Tyus in assist to turnover ratio. And even though he's not great offensively, at the very least he's a very strong, disruptive ball-hawking defender and high IQ playmaker too.

Lastly, on the cheap end of the scale, we could look to buy or trade into the 2nd round of the 2022 draft. There are actually a number of really solid guard and playmaking combo wings throughout such as Alondes Williams, Dalen Terry, Andrew Nembhard and even some projected to range in the undrafted pool too such as Jordan Hall, Ziga Samar all have significant size from 6'5 -6'7 and would be legitimate upgrades to Payne for our bench. Getting any of these prospects would clearly be an absolute steal for us and really stabilize our bench playmaking/ depth. Look into them briefly and tell me they wouldn't be an upgrade to what Payne has been providing? and at a fraction of the cost. I'm fairly sure (even with his recent struggles) that we could offload Payne for a late first to early 2nd to a team looking for a potential bench boost. Especially for any teams that don't even have any reasonable bench guard option (aside from us) and are somewhat desperate for any type of upgrade? Orlando, Sacramento, and Minnesota all have multiple 2nd round picks. Could any of them possibly have interest in Payne or Craig? get a 2nd and take back a smaller salary or an expiring in the deal and get a 2nd out of it. Then stretch Saric for further savings??? We need to build up both Craigs' and Payne s' value if possible heading into the offseason for this very purpose.

I like Brogdon, but he's always injured. He played in 36 games this year and in the 50s the two years prior.

I would have said the positive in that is that maybe they'd trade his pretty big contract for some expirings like Payne, Saric and Craig. But of course Brogdon expires too.

Now if we included Cam Johnson instead of Craig I think there would be a good chance we could do it. But Brogdon is a starter. You'd probably have to go with Booker at the 3 and Bridges at the 4 which would be pretty small.

But if we re-signed he could take over for Paul the following year.

Not sure I trust him enough to stay healthy.

We need a backup PG who can turn into a starter. It's too bad we didn't take Brogdon over Ulis or Brunson over Okobo or Haliburton over Smith or kept Melton.

Anyway, I don't know. You need to find a cheap young guy who hasn't gotten much of an opportunity because they have great guard depth somewhere...like maybe Chicago or something. Cam Johnson for Coby White?

[thamadkant]

Suns need a Beverly type PG to backup Paul. We all know it.

Someone who will get on the opponents head and hit open shots.

Dirty or not, Suns need that type of player who disrupt the other team.

With that said, CP3 looked like 30 year old CP3 again during the first 8 games of the playoffs... and looked like his 42 year old future self travelled through time and switched bodies from Game 3 onwards of this series.

My confidence is very shaken at the moment for Game 7... and next season onwards.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

?s=20

.........when does it make sense to dip into the luxury tax to keep a team together? Now, given how competitive the Suns are, is he willing to be a taxpayer?

( Quote from Saver himself)

“My position for a market like us with the tax is, if you get yourself where you can compete at the highest level, then you pay it and you go for it,” Sarver told BasketballNews.com. 

So basically he's saying that IF our team can prove to be legitimate title contenders by making it back to the finals and possibly winning it all, Then it warrants paying the tax to sustain that level of success and competitiveness. But what happens if we blow it on Sunday and face an early exit? Would this give Saver an excuse to go back to old ways and dissect our roster for cost cutting interests premised on our inability to legitimately compete!

It's already been speculated that both ( Saver/ Jones) are considering moving on from Ayton for more cost effective options such as Capela. Let's just hope that we get things done concincingly tommorow and get everything back on track!!!

[Frank Lee]

The ability to do anything but run this squad back is really a challenge. But you ink up CamJo as he’s an asset, keep him or not. Ayton will present the most opportunity to deal.

I think our path forward hinges a lot on sundays performance

[Mulhollanddrive]

Mike Conley or Eric Gordon?

I mean the options aren't good when you're in the luxury tax trying to turn salary dumps into elite backup pgs.

[thamadkant]

Suns core is Booker, Ayton and Mikal... with veterans like Paul and Crowder to steer to the right culture.

Everyone else are interchangeable.

[Mulhollanddrive]

Players moved in the past 2 years - Haliburton, Lowry, McCollum, DeRozan, Harden, Simmons, Sabonis, Vucevic, Paul.

There'll be opportunities to do something bigger than swapping bench players and we are here because of it.

Donovan Mitchell is long odds to be with Utah for a significant amount of time longer.

[thamadkant]

Donovan Mitchell and Devin Booker don't fit. It's one or the other if you have CP3 handling the ball.

What suns need is a Fred Van Vleet level PG... not star but reliable passer and shooter.

And a long PF/SF to be triplets with Ayton, Mikal as the defensive wall.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

?s=20

[Bogyo]

Feels like last years CP was Stockton from 98. This year it's 99.

I've been saying (something like) this for a while now. I hope I'm wrong, but father time is undefeated. I'm not convinced we should keep him regardless of the outcome of this year (but likely no cigar - all too familiar feeling for Suns fans).

[RaisingArizona]

Feels like last years CP was Stockton from 98. This year it's 99.

I've been saying (something like) this for a while now. I hope I'm wrong, but father time is undefeated. I'm not convinced we should keep him regardless of the outcome of this year (but likely no cigar - all too familiar feeling for Suns fans).

He may retire with a ring. If not, maybe he can split time with Tyus for a year before retirement?

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

?s=20

So 54 yrs without a title!!
Might be the right time to finally get our Sh** together and break the cycle?

[sunskerr]

Yeah I've been harping on about getting a real physical, defensive-type point in the mold of Beverley, Smart, etc. for a while now to back up Paul. Those guys are really valuable.

Post Chris Paul however, I think we need a genuine 2nd option. And if our core guys are Booker, Mikal, and Ayton, then that 2nd option has to be at PG or PF. We'll fall flat without a real 2nd option who can get his own shot. At this point I don't expect Mikal and Ayton to become shot creators and because of that if there is a genuine star around Booker's age available I'd consider parting with one of those two guys provided the incoming star can also play some defense. Preferably we'd sign a second star though so we don't have to lose our depth. But I'd be wary in tying up so much cap room on guys who aren't offensive creators.

[Ghost of Kleine]

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2956135-every-teams-biggest-need-in-the-2022-nba-draft.amp.html

Phoenix Suns: Second-Round Pick

The Suns are quickly learning there is a cost to fielding a perpetual contender.

And it ain't cheap.

Phoenix already has one of the league's most expensive rosters, and the cost could keep climbing. Deandre Ayton needs a new deal with restricted free agency awaiting him. Cameron Johnson, who exceeded expectations as a rookie and has only improved over the two seasons since, is eligible for an extension.

Money is tight, so trading into this draft for a second-round pick that could potentially be inked to a team-friendly pact could make a lot of sense.

We absolutely do need a significant upgrade to our overall length, athleticism, hunger tenacity and overall energy. We need a young hungry gritty player with plus to explosive athleticism to add to our team dynamic. There are a number of great options hidden throughout the 2nd round.

[sunskerr]

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2956135-every-teams-biggest-need-in-the-2022-nba-draft.amp.html

Phoenix Suns: Second-Round Pick

The Suns are quickly learning there is a cost to fielding a perpetual contender.

And it ain't cheap.

Phoenix already has one of the league's most expensive rosters, and the cost could keep climbing. Deandre Ayton needs a new deal with restricted free agency awaiting him. Cameron Johnson, who exceeded expectations as a rookie and has only improved over the two seasons since, is eligible for an extension.

Money is tight, so trading into this draft for a second-round pick that could potentially be inked to a team-friendly pact could make a lot of sense.

We absolutely do need a significant upgrade to our overall length, athleticism, hunger tenacity and overall energy. We need a young hungry gritty player with plus to explosive athleticism to add to our team dynamic. There are a number of great options hidden throughout the 2nd round.

This!! In 2022 (for several years now, actually!) late 1sts and early 2nds are legitimate assets to have now because the talent pool in the draft and undrafted players is deeper than ever and will only continue to deepen! Just have to be smart in your scouting to increase your odds that you'll hit with the pick or find the undrafted signee.