Offseason Thread 6: The Not So Mexican Stand-off Continues

[Saberestar]

The future of Zoran Dragic is still uncertain. The Slovenian combo guard has a contract with Malaga but he can also leave to the NBA if he finds a contract before ACB season starts.

Zoran Dragic arrived in Malaga late last week to start the training camp.

“I am here preparing the season with Malaga. But if I have the chance to go the NBA my desire is to go” said Zoran Dragic to La Opinion de Malaga. “I think that the best option for me is to go the NBA now because I don’t want to lose one year. I think I am ready to play in the NBA but the truth is that I don’t know anything about the NBA at the moment. My heart is with Unicaja” added Zoran Dragic.

http://www.sportando.com/en/europe/spai ... e-nba.html

[TASTIC]

Don't want anything to do with Mayo's fat ass.

Also don't want Waiters. It should alarm people that Blanks (I think?) had a hard-on for this guy leading up to the draft.

Honestly, if MIL offered Bled a max I'd take Henson, Knight and a 1st, then waive Shavlik.

[gaspar]

Bob Young

Spoiler:

Training camp is just around the corner, and unless a team comes out of nowhere with a sign-and-trade offer, Bledsoe will either have to accept the Suns' offer, quickly return to the table and find some middle ground or sign a one-year qualifying offer of $3.72 million and test unrestricted free agency next summer.

When Bledsoe and Dragic were healthy and playing together, the Suns were 24-13. It's no wonder they'd like to keep that combination together. Bledsoe evidently doesn't share that sentiment.
If he chooses to sign a qualifying offer, then it's time for the Suns to begin planning for a future without him.
That's a future with Dragic as the team leader and playmaker alongside Isaiah Thomas with a blossoming Archie Goodwin and draft pick Tyler Ennis in reserve.

If Bledsoe can pump up his free-agent value coming off the bench, then good for him. If that happens to make him attractive to other teams at the trade deadline, then good for the Suns. Either way, there's only one player in this equation who has earned the kind of money Bledsoe is seeking.
And it isn't him.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/n ... /15812443/

There's some serious BS in that article.

[Jarlaxle0204]

Secondly, am I the only one on this site that looks at Dragic as a combo 2? I see him as a shorter Ginobili in a shorter NBA. Dragic working off of Bledsoe led us to a .650 winning percentage. He is obviously able to run the point but I think his game is better operating off a more natural 1.

I've always seen Dragic as a combo 2 and think he works best there. Look back to when he was a rookie. He played best when on the floor with Nash at the 2 spot as well as this past year next to Bledsoe. He can definitely play the 1 but I think he will always have the most success at the 2 next to another ball handler.

[Sunsdeuce]

Bob Young

Spoiler:

Training camp is just around the corner, and unless a team comes out of nowhere with a sign-and-trade offer, Bledsoe will either have to accept the Suns' offer, quickly return to the table and find some middle ground or sign a one-year qualifying offer of $3.72 million and test unrestricted free agency next summer.

When Bledsoe and Dragic were healthy and playing together, the Suns were 24-13. It's no wonder they'd like to keep that combination together. Bledsoe evidently doesn't share that sentiment.
If he chooses to sign a qualifying offer, then it's time for the Suns to begin planning for a future without him.
That's a future with Dragic as the team leader and playmaker alongside Isaiah Thomas with a blossoming Archie Goodwin and draft pick Tyler Ennis in reserve.

If Bledsoe can pump up his free-agent value coming off the bench, then good for him. If that happens to make him attractive to other teams at the trade deadline, then good for the Suns. Either way, there's only one player in this equation who has earned the kind of mone Bledsoe is seeking.
And it isn't him.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/n ... /15812443/

There's some serious BS in that article.

Actually I liked that article. The truth hurts.


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[Years90Suns]

For what I have seen of the WCh and what I already knew about Bogdanovic, he is strong and can go to the basket. He can get most of his points by shooting and by getting to the basket with or without the ball. he can cut and receive near the basket.

He has kind of a midrange game a little bit similar to those of the SF of the 80's (Nique, English, Vandeweghe, etc) in which he can get points and fouls by posting up a little bit.

I have seen receive in the middle of the paint, spin with the ball and leave a lefty semi-hook with his hand well above his opponent's hand, which happened to be taller. So he has good hoops.

He is more or less 200 lbs. May be a little bit more. I do not think he can play the SF in the NBA but for our team, with people running like crazy and two PGs on court at the same time.

He is intelligent and can penetrate and score in inlelligent ways by finding little holes between the defenders's arms and hands and the basketball board.

[Nando88]

Where did this talk of Nash talking to our FO come from?


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[RunDogGun]

LeBron can opt out next year. Love can sign a max contract next year. Someone who knows help me out here. Can the Cavs sign Bledsoe max, then sign Lebron to another 2 year contract with an opt out, then sign Love to a max deal. Won't the Cavs have bird rights for Lebron and Love. Since the cap is supposed to rise next year are ther are any rules preventing this scenario from happining.

That makes sense, but since they have the rights to those players, wouldn't they also have the cap holds, which would prevent them from signing anyone(they don't have the rights of) which puts them over the salary cap?

[bwgood77]

At this point I don't see us getting much more than the Bucks unprotected first out of this.

I don't know about the FO, but the fans would definitely not be for that. They really don't want a maxed out injury prone Bledsoe 4-5 years older than their core, especially if they had to give up a first round pick that didn't have full lotto protection. They'd prefer another lotto rookie on a rookie contract that fit in with their young team.

They'd be well-positioned to pick up a guard at the top of next year's draft, sure. For us, I just don't see very many ways to avoid the kamikaze at this point. QO seems bad for both sides.

I'll still be pretty surprised if he takes the QO. We will negotiate up a little bit on or around Oct 1st, and if they still take it then, they are complete idiots.

I think chances of a S&T are almost nil. Sacramento makes more sense, because they at least have a young asset we could use and Bledsoe would more likely want to play there. They have plenty of money for a max after this year when Gay comes off the books. The only problem is, would we want all their filler? We could mostly get expirings along with Stauskas. If we could get Stauskas and a pick, it might be worth it. We likely don't compete in the top 4-5 teams in the west for the next 3-4 years anyway, so more young assets could help.

[bwgood77]

Just wanted to get your opinions. The bucks board/fans are a 100% sure Henson and knight are worthy assets to get Bledsoe.

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=1323497&start=1820

In fact if you read their trade board, they think we are delusional for not wanting Henson or knight. I just want to make sure I'm not the only one who thinks Henson and/or knight are marginal value players, not really worthy of a trade.

Question is are Henson and/or knight "fair" trade value to the suns?

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Well, all fan boards have their share of delusional fans and they overvalue their own players. I mentioned before I wouldn't mind a slightly protected pick, Knight and Middleton if the alternative is losing Bledsoe in a year. That was before we were talking of signing Zoran though. Middleton good be a good Green replacement if he leaves next year. That's not enough salary coming back I don't think, and I wouldn't really want to take Illy (however, I would if I knew he could play like he did two years ago).

Knight is a backup guard to give us a bridge to Ennis developing. He could play with IT off the bench if Green started with Dragic.

I want NO part of Henson though. He just simply doesn't fit in on the Suns and wouldn't even get playing time here.

Still, I know you don't agree with this, but I still feel in all likelihood, Bledsoe signs a deal with us on or around Oct 1st.

[Sunsdeuce]

Just wanted to get your opinions. The bucks board/fans are a 100% sure Henson and knight are worthy assets to get Bledsoe.

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=1323497&start=1820

In fact if you read their trade board, they think we are delusional for not wanting Henson or knight. I just want to make sure I'm not the only one who thinks Henson and/or knight are marginal value players, not really worthy of a trade.

Question is are Henson and/or knight "fair" trade value to the suns?

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Well, all fan boards have their share of delusional fans and they overvalue their own players. I mentioned before I wouldn't mind an slightly protected pick, Knight and Middleton if the alternative is losing Bledsoe in a year. That was before we were talking of signing Zoran though. Middleton good be a good Green replacement if he leaves next year. That's not enough salary coming back I don't think, and I wouldn't really want to take Illy (however, I would if I knew he could play like he did two years ago).

Knight is a backup guard to give us a bridge to Ennis developing. He could play with IT off the bench if Green started with Dragic.

I want NO part of Henson though. He just simply doesn't fit in on the Suns
and wouldn't even get playing time here.

Still, I know you don't agree with this, but I still feel in all likelihood, Bledsoe signs a deal with us on or around Oct 1st.

Thanks. Yeah I just think bledsoe's mind is so far gone because of dumbass rich Paul and lebron. This reminds me so much of the mcdyess situation.


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[bwgood77]

Question is are Henson and/or knight "fair" trade value to the suns?

Two things:

a) The Suns aren't ever going to get fair trade value for Bledsoe. He's still a high risk guy because a 4-year max deal comes with him. The real question is can the Suns salvage the relationship w/Bledsoe on a long-term deal in the next 12-days, and if not, then what does the organization want to do. Under the second scenario, no team ever get's fair value. That is just the way the league works save for the T-Wolves who hit a one in a million jackpot with Wiggins for Love.

b) Knight isn't a bad prospect but he's not great either. I'm not going to try and oversell him to your board. He's a 6-3" combo guard of high character, decent defender but no court vision. Henson on the other hand is one of those guys whose career is going one of two ways this season. He's either going to cement his status as a journeyman center or he's going to make to leap to top-15 center. This is about the time for the die to be cast on his career and as a result he's worked on his body all summer in bulking up. Frankly at this point I'm scared for the Bucks to deal him.

I don't think there is any way the Suns can get fair value for Bledsoe either. I don't know what I'd give up if I was a Bucks fan. I probably wouldn't want to give up a lotto pick. Other than that, your assets move the needle in zero positive direction for the Suns, so it just eats into our cap space. Bledsoe would also be done with his deal by the time the Bucks were ready to compete past the first round of the playoffs with Giannis and Parker (IF those guys turn into really good players).

[jcsunsfan]

I am beginning to think that trades and free agent signings are no longer the path to the Suns future. Every player we consider is significantly flawed. We might do much better just focusing our attention on developing the potential in our present assets: Thomas, Warren, Bogdan, Len, Archie, and even Ennis. We have a coach and staff that can make the most of it. We could stockpile picks in case a disgruntled superstar is available.

I think I would take picks for Bledsoe and move on.

[bwgood77]

The deal will be Waiters for Bledsoe straight up. Mark it down. Its been plan B all along.
Bled's camp is skippered by James, and he wants his lil buddy Gilligan on his Island.

Think about it.... it's the only thing that makes sense. Paul/James says Bledsoap gets a max offer, or he takes the QO.
Suns say we'll see if he gets a max, then might match it, but here is our starting offer....Paul/James says max or QO/walking next yr....... But, .... we have convinced Gilbert .... Suns can have waiters and we'll (Cleve) will take Bledsoap so there is no hard feelings.

I think it may be a done deal already and it may explain the inactivity of the Suns FO concerning Mini-King...who I will then refer to as Twinkie.

Good to see you back/around Johnny VC

How does Cleveland absorb that much salary if it was a S&T? They are up against the cap. Or are you saying Bledsoe plays for the QO then we trade him straight up for Waiters?

[paulpressey25]

Other than that, your assets move the needle in zero positive direction for the Suns

Yes and no. Brandon Knight and Ilyasova actually would help you guys win games this year and next. They are not bad players. They just aren't needle movers like Bledsoe.

But this is the paradox in the entire discussion. You guys don't want to give up a needle mover in Bledsoe but you also don't want to pay Bledsoe a needle mover salary because of his injury risk.

Bledsoe may cave here, but I don't see he and Rich Paul taking the 4/$48 deal, especially since Sarver 6-8 weeks ago said he'd go higher as long as Bledsoe and his camp would move off the 5/$80 number.

I just keep thinking 4/$63 gets it done for you guys because that allows Bledsoe and Paul to save face (Suns moved up and Eric now makes the same as Gordon Hayward). If the Suns don't give those guys a face-saving exit, then maybe they will do the QO.

[bwgood77]

Other than that, your assets move the needle in zero positive direction for the Suns

Yes and no. Brandon Knight and Ilyasova actually would help you guys win games this year and next. They are not bad players. They just aren't needle movers like Bledsoe.

But this is the paradox in the entire discussion. You guys don't want to give up a needle mover in Bledsoe but you also don't want to pay Bledsoe a needle mover salary because of his injury risk.

Bledsoe may cave here, but I don't see he and Rich Paul taking the 4/$48 deal, especially since Sarver 6-8 weeks ago said he'd go higher as long as Bledsoe and his camp would move off the 5/$80 number.

I just keep thinking 4/$63 gets it done for you guys because that allows Bledsoe and Paul to save face (Suns moved up and Eric now makes the same as Gordon Hayward). If the Suns don't give those guys a face-saving exit, then maybe they will do the QO.

4/63 would get it done because that is pretty much a max. I think 4/56 will. I think they sit down on 10/1 or the day before and offer 4/52. If Bled/Paul come down at all, Suns go up to 4/56 as a final offer. If they still demand max of 5/84 Suns stand firm and see if they are bluffing. If they take the QO so be it.

If Suns are willing to go to 4/63, that would mean they are confident that the injury thing is not a problem and in that case, there is really no reason to lock him up as long as possible and give him 5/80. If they are worried about injuries, no way they should go that high in the first place. He turns into an Amare contract you can't move especially since he plays the most loaded position in the league.

[RunDogGun]

Other than that, your assets move the needle in zero positive direction for the Suns

Yes and no. Brandon Knight and Ilyasova actually would help you guys win games this year and next. They are not bad players. They just aren't needle movers like Bledsoe.

But this is the paradox in the entire discussion. You guys don't want to give up a needle mover in Bledsoe but you also don't want to pay Bledsoe a needle mover salary because of his injury risk.

Bledsoe may cave here, but I don't see he and Rich Paul taking the 4/$48 deal, especially since Sarver 6-8 weeks ago said he'd go higher as long as Bledsoe and his camp would move off the 5/$80 number.

I just keep thinking 4/$63 gets it done for you guys because that allows Bledsoe and Paul to save face (Suns moved up and Eric now makes the same as Gordon Hayward). If the Suns don't give those guys a face-saving exit, then maybe they will do the QO.

We aren't giving him 4/$63, and there is no reason to do so. Hayward's deal was because of another offer to him. Bledsoe got no such deal. So it leans more towards Lowry, which we already offered him. And Bledsoe's agent has made zero effort to start negotiating. If we go beyond 4/$48, there should be a game per season condition.

[paulpressey25]

We aren't giving him 4/$63, and there is no reason to do so. Hayward's deal was because of another offer to him. Bledsoe got no such deal.

Bledsoe got no such deal most likely because he's a heck of a lot better player than Hayward and most teams knew the Suns would match up to 4/$63. The other problem is evidently Bledsoe and Rich Paul aren't entertaining any offers like that from other teams because they want the higher five year/$80mm deal that only the Suns are eligible to give him.(which is delusional on their part)

I get it that some Suns fans want to use the RFA process against Eric to jam him down on his contract. But that approach has negative ramifications for the Suns. In the end, Bledsoe is either going to be a ridiculously good player for your team or he's going to be an injured problem ala Eric Gordon. If it is the latter, whether you pay him $13 million a year or $16 million a year, it's going to be an albatross contract regardless. And the $3mm difference will be peanuts if the salary cap does rise to $80-90 million as projected.

[aIvin adams]

We aren't giving him 4/$63, and there is no reason to do so. Hayward's deal was because of another offer to him. Bledsoe got no such deal.

Bledsoe got no such deal most likely because he's a heck of a lot better player than Hayward and most teams knew the Suns would match up to 4/$63. The other problem is evidently Bledsoe and Rich Paul aren't entertaining any offers like that from other teams because they want the higher five year/$80mm deal that only the Suns are eligible to give him.(which is delusional on their part)

I get it that some Suns fans want to use the RFA process against Eric to jam him down on his contract. But that approach has negative ramifications for the Suns. In the end, Bledsoe is either going to be a ridiculously good player for your team or he's going to be an injured problem ala Eric Gordon. If it is the latter, whether you pay him $13 million a year or $16 million a year, it's going to be an albatross contract regardless. And the $3mm difference will be peanuts if the salary cap does rise to $80-90 million as projected.

not saying yer wrong, but the logic here is weird to me.

1) bledsoe didn't get the max offer hayward did because bledsoe is a much better player.

2) $3M annual salary doesn't make much difference.

these are strange thoughts to think. maybe yer right i dunno..

[RunDogGun]

We aren't giving him 4/$63, and there is no reason to do so. Hayward's deal was because of another offer to him. Bledsoe got no such deal.

Bledsoe got no such deal most likely because he's a heck of a lot better player than Hayward and most teams knew the Suns would match up to 4/$63. The other problem is evidently Bledsoe and Rich Paul aren't entertaining any offers like that from other teams because they want the higher five year/$80mm deal that only the Suns are eligible to give him.(which is delusional on their part)

I get it that some Suns fans want to use the RFA process against Eric to jam him down on his contract. But that approach has negative ramifications for the Suns. In the end, Bledsoe is either going to be a ridiculously good player for your team or he's going to be an injured problem ala Eric Gordon. If it is the latter, whether you pay him $13 million a year or $16 million a year, it's going to be an albatross contract regardless. And the $3mm difference will be peanuts if the salary cap does rise to $80-90 million as projected.

What? There has been no such reports that Paul didn't entertain deals like that. Moreover, it was well thought that Hayward would be matched, but a team made the offer anyway.

I'm not trying to use anything against Bledsoe. He is a RFA, there are rules to that, and we have every right to say we will match any reasonable offer, and any team has the right to offer him that. A fair offer was put out by the team, same as the one Lowry took. Lowry set Bledsoe's market value, not Hayward, or Parsons.

Again, there is no need to make another offer, if Bledsoe's agent won't even come to the table. We have two big contracts coming up, and we should not give in to this kind of stupidity. Bledsoe has yet to prove he can stay healthy with a starting position for a full year. Regardless of whether the cap goes up, it's a dumb move.

Now as for the return on him, meh, that isn't my concern. We have made steps to replace his loss on offense, and will have to figure out the loss on the defensive end (although sometimes Bledsoe was somewhat lazy on that end, even though he is a good defender).

I still think he is taking too much of a risk if he takes the QO. We have been good to him, we gave him something he was never going to get in LAC. Without us, or a starting role on another team, there is no way he even gets the 4/$47 we offered him.