The Trade/Free Agency Thread: All Eyes Toward The Offseason 2

[TeamTragic]

More smoke- let's hope there's some fire there, and PHX can get to the front of the line. JB=Young Vet

If we get Butler, we will look dramatically better to FA's and to agents for trades. This could be why they are posturing Book as a potential 3, so they can say Butler is a 2 though it seems, Butler is very interchangeable at those two spots. Just spit-balling.

Bledsoe, Booker, Butler, FA/Trade, Chandler Maybe we go for Love still as well.

Bledsoe, Booker, Butler, Love, Chandler. Defense from three spots, fairly balanced scoring options as well. Depending on who got sent out, we might still have some money to spend in FA as well.

You think the 4 and Knight is enough for Butler, or that they'd want the 13 as well?

Not quite enough, I don't think. If we do trade for Butler, I do not want to send out Tucker. Tucker is a good bench piece on a winning team. He would also allow us to play a defensive perimeter lineup (Bled, Butler, Tucker).

This may sound like heresy, but I think once Butler is in hand, you at least make the call to IND for PG- and while you don't offer Book in your first offer, I don't think you take him off the table either.

I actually think that if we have Butler and George, we may want to think about switching out Bledsoe for Rubio and then get a great finishing PF in FA. Rubio can focus on passing and defense, and let the other guys score.

Think about this crazy 4 team trade:

PHX trades: Bledsoe, Knight, Booker, Warren, Len, Goodwin, #4, #13, #28, MIA 2018 #1, MIA 2021 #1
PHX receives: Rubio, Butler, George

CHI trades: Butler, Rose
CHI receives: Knight, Ellis, Len, Muhammed, #4, #28

IND trades: George, Ellis
IND Receives: Rose, Tucker, Booker, Warren, #13, MIA 2017/18 #1 MIA 2020/21 #1

MIN trades: Rubio, Mohammed
MIN receives: Bledsoe, Goodwin

Amazingly after this, PHX would still have $32-$34 million to spend on FA's

Rubio/Bobo
Butler/ Bobo/ Jenkins
George/
FA/ Williams
Chandler/ AJ Hammons (#34)

You think Durant might want to come to that team? Love?

It's all pie in the sky, but the values aren't too far off for all involved I don't think. Seems like there could still be some interesting plays for PHX coming up.

Rubio/Butler/George for our entire team including every single pick we own?

[Mulhollanddrive]

I think we have it the other way around.

The process is that teams GM has to make the star player available, then he takes bids.

IE. OK Goran Dragic is available, trade him for highest price. Kevin Love wants to leave we have to trade him before that. Can't pay James Harden enough make him available.

So the actual trade offer only matters afterwards, which is why you never see 5 picks and 5 players traded for a star player, because they're not available and it's not going to change a GMs mind, but on the other hand when GM decides to trade them, then you don't need to trade 5 picks and 5 players to convince them, as he's already convinced.

[jcsunsfan]

Funny about trade proposals. Fans on one site argue that the fans on another site would not accept such a deal. Its all meaningless. Would another fansite's proposal of a trade be silly because we don't think its enough. Its fun conversation but meaningless.

[bwgood77]

Funny about trade proposals. Fans on one site argue that the fans on another site would not accept such a deal. Its all meaningless. Would another fansite's proposal of a trade be silly because we don't think its enough. Its fun conversation but meaningless.

Yes, they are always going to be lopsided in the home teams favor for their team's perspective. The trade forum does a pretty good job trying to get reasonable trades proposed that make sense for the teams involved. But even then, it's just fans. We have no idea what a GM is thinking.

The sig bet on a Love being available for 3 is kind of ridiculous too, because even if that is on the table for Cleveland, and the Celtics decide to trade it for Butler or Okafor or not engage, so the person saying Love would be available for the 3 might be right, but when a trade doesn't go down, the other side would claim they are right.

[RaisingArizona]

Funny about trade proposals. Fans on one site argue that the fans on another site would not accept such a deal. Its all meaningless. Would another fansite's proposal of a trade be silly because we don't think its enough. Its fun conversation but meaningless.

Yes, they are always going to be lopsided in the home teams favor for their team's perspective. The trade forum does a pretty good job trying to get reasonable trades proposed that make sense for the teams involved. But even then, it's just fans. We have no idea what a GM is thinking.

The sig bet on a Love being available for 3 is kind of ridiculous too, because even if that is on the table for Cleveland, and the Celtics decide to trade it for Butler or Okafor or not engage, so the person saying Love would be available for the 3 might be right, but when a trade doesn't go down, the other side would claim they are right.

If a Love trade is made for a draft pick, the Cavs aren't getting back a top 5 pick. That's my sig bet offer.

[bwgood77]

Funny about trade proposals. Fans on one site argue that the fans on another site would not accept such a deal. Its all meaningless. Would another fansite's proposal of a trade be silly because we don't think its enough. Its fun conversation but meaningless.

Yes, they are always going to be lopsided in the home teams favor for their team's perspective. The trade forum does a pretty good job trying to get reasonable trades proposed that make sense for the teams involved. But even then, it's just fans. We have no idea what a GM is thinking.

The sig bet on a Love being available for 3 is kind of ridiculous too, because even if that is on the table for Cleveland, and the Celtics decide to trade it for Butler or Okafor or not engage, so the person saying Love would be available for the 3 might be right, but when a trade doesn't go down, the other side would claim they are right.

If a Love trade is made for a draft pick, the Cavs aren't getting back a top 5 pick. That's my sig bet offer.

I'd be REAL surprised, with McD in the last year of his contract and Sarver's demands for a competitive team, if McD would turn down 4 for Love. I mean if I posted such a potential trade on the trade forum it would likely be ridiculed.

But imo he won't be traded for a high draft pick because LeBron's clock is ticking and he isn't going to want a rookie...if they trade him it's for vets.

[RaisingArizona]

Yes, they are always going to be lopsided in the home teams favor for their team's perspective. The trade forum does a pretty good job trying to get reasonable trades proposed that make sense for the teams involved. But even then, it's just fans. We have no idea what a GM is thinking.

The sig bet on a Love being available for 3 is kind of ridiculous too, because even if that is on the table for Cleveland, and the Celtics decide to trade it for Butler or Okafor or not engage, so the person saying Love would be available for the 3 might be right, but when a trade doesn't go down, the other side would claim they are right.

If a Love trade is made for a draft pick, the Cavs aren't getting back a top 5 pick. That's my sig bet offer.

I'd be REAL surprised, with McD in the last year of his contract and Sarver's demands for a competitive team, if McD would turn down 4 for Love. I mean if I posted such a potential trade on the trade forum it would likely be ridiculed.

But imo he won't be traded for a high draft pick because LeBron's clock is ticking and he isn't going to want a rookie...if they trade him it's for vets.

I hear you but I'd be extremely pissed to trade the 4th pick for Love. I'm just saying he's been exposed big time in these finals. The Cavs are better without him. Not a guy I would want to build my team around anymore.

[bwgood77]

I always see George proposals which I find a bit ridiculous since I can't imagine a small market team trading their centerpiece, but thought that maybe there was something I didn't know....so I posed the question on the Indy board..

Do you think there is a possibility George gets traded and if so, why? I keep seeing Suns fans post George trade scenarios and I keep saying there is no way he is being traded, particularly for anything the Suns have to offer. Am I wrong?

No, not really. He's still super young, as is Myles Turner. I think Bird would want a chance to build around Paul George for 2 more years rather than giving up 2 years early.

For Phoenix, missing out on moving up into the top 2 of the lottery hurt any offer they could've made. But, a top 2 pick this year, Booker, 13, and the future Miami 1sts would've made a solid offer. As such, 4, 13, Booker, Len, and the 2 Miami 1sts is the best you can offer, and that just may not be enough. It's a big difference in value from 2 to 4.

More likely trade between the two of us this summer? Our 20 for your 28 and 34.

[SideSwipe]

You think the 4 and Knight is enough for Butler, or that they'd want the 13 as well?

Not quite enough, I don't think. If we do trade for Butler, I do not want to send out Tucker. Tucker is a good bench piece on a winning team. He would also allow us to play a defensive perimeter lineup (Bled, Butler, Tucker).

This may sound like heresy, but I think once Butler is in hand, you at least make the call to IND for PG- and while you don't offer Book in your first offer, I don't think you take him off the table either.

I actually think that if we have Butler and George, we may want to think about switching out Bledsoe for Rubio and then get a great finishing PF in FA. Rubio can focus on passing and defense, and let the other guys score.

Think about this crazy 4 team trade:

PHX trades: Bledsoe, Knight, Booker, Warren, Len, Goodwin, #4, #13, #28, MIA 2018 #1, MIA 2021 #1
PHX receives: Rubio, Butler, George

CHI trades: Butler, Rose
CHI receives: Knight, Ellis, Len, Muhammed, #4, #28

IND trades: George, Ellis
IND Receives: Rose, Tucker, Booker, Warren, #13, MIA 2017/18 #1 MIA 2020/21 #1

MIN trades: Rubio, Mohammed
MIN receives: Bledsoe, Goodwin

Amazingly after this, PHX would still have $32-$34 million to spend on FA's

Rubio/Bobo
Butler/ Bobo/ Jenkins
George/
FA/ Williams
Chandler/ AJ Hammons (#34)

You think Durant might want to come to that team? Love?

It's all pie in the sky, but the values aren't too far off for all involved I don't think. Seems like there could still be some interesting plays for PHX coming up.

Rubio/Butler/George |and $34mil in cap|for our entire team including every single pick we own?

Admittedly, this deal will never happen, but I don't think it would be because the value was too much. You have to give to get, and the chance to rebuild with 2 solid players, and potentially 3 All-Stars in your starting lineup would be enough to deconstruct the team, even if it meant trading away Booker. Again, though, this is just spit-balling and having fun.

[jcsunsfan]

Yes, they are always going to be lopsided in the home teams favor for their team's perspective. The trade forum does a pretty good job trying to get reasonable trades proposed that make sense for the teams involved. But even then, it's just fans. We have no idea what a GM is thinking.

The sig bet on a Love being available for 3 is kind of ridiculous too, because even if that is on the table for Cleveland, and the Celtics decide to trade it for Butler or Okafor or not engage, so the person saying Love would be available for the 3 might be right, but when a trade doesn't go down, the other side would claim they are right.

If a Love trade is made for a draft pick, the Cavs aren't getting back a top 5 pick. That's my sig bet offer.

I'd be REAL surprised, with McD in the last year of his contract and Sarver's demands for a competitive team, if McD would turn down 4 for Love. I mean if I posted such a potential trade on the trade forum it would likely be ridiculed.

But imo he won't be traded for a high draft pick because LeBron's clock is ticking and he isn't going to want a rookie...if they trade him it's for vets.

I think Sarver has resigned himself to the rebuild. The Horny firing and hiring of Watson would seem to indicate that.

[Qwigglez]

I always see George proposals which I find a bit ridiculous since I can't imagine a small market team trading their centerpiece, but thought that maybe there was something I didn't know....so I posed the question on the Indy board..

Do you think there is a possibility George gets traded and if so, why? I keep seeing Suns fans post George trade scenarios and I keep saying there is no way he is being traded, particularly for anything the Suns have to offer. Am I wrong?

No, not really. He's still super young, as is Myles Turner. I think Bird would want a chance to build around Paul George for 2 more years rather than giving up 2 years early.

For Phoenix, missing out on moving up into the top 2 of the lottery hurt any offer they could've made. But, a top 2 pick this year, Booker, 13, and the future Miami 1sts would've made a solid offer. As such, 4, 13, Booker, Len, and the 2 Miami 1sts is the best you can offer, and that just may not be enough. It's a big difference in value from 2 to 4.

More likely trade between the two of us this summer? Our 20 for your 28 and 34.

If the Pacers were to trade George they would not get fair value. Same with the Kings for DeMarcus Cousins. Kevin Love is likely the only star player that I can think of that a team actually got really good value for.

[bwgood77]

I always see George proposals which I find a bit ridiculous since I can't imagine a small market team trading their centerpiece, but thought that maybe there was something I didn't know....so I posed the question on the Indy board..

No, not really. He's still super young, as is Myles Turner. I think Bird would want a chance to build around Paul George for 2 more years rather than giving up 2 years early.

For Phoenix, missing out on moving up into the top 2 of the lottery hurt any offer they could've made. But, a top 2 pick this year, Booker, 13, and the future Miami 1sts would've made a solid offer. As such, 4, 13, Booker, Len, and the 2 Miami 1sts is the best you can offer, and that just may not be enough. It's a big difference in value from 2 to 4.

More likely trade between the two of us this summer? Our 20 for your 28 and 34.

If the Pacers were to trade George they would not get fair value. Same with the Kings for DeMarcus Cousins. Kevin Love is likely the only star player that I can think of that a team actually got really good value for.

I definitely disagree with this. George will only be traded right now if some team gives them a ridiculously good offer, and probably same with Cousins. I have no idea with Love, but I'm guessing he could be had for unequal value if they felt it made the team better.

[Safety Pickle]

The trade forum is insteresting. There is an MKG for Noel thread in there that someone proposed and fans of both teams are really against it, particularly Hornets fans.

Then of course my thought of a reasonable trade of the 4 for Lyles and 12 (not sure I'd do it but probably wouldn't, and definitely wouldn't if Bender is there), was met with avid no's from Jazz fans, and some say they wouldn't trade Lyles by himself for 4.

Suns fans get killed for "overvaluing their own players" in that forum. But EVERY teams fans do it. This is a perfect example.

Everyone overvalues their players, yeah, but I've noticed Suns fan that post there get super defensive and unnecessarily aggressive towards anyone that proposes a trade they don't like. Could be because I generally only read Suns related trades, but still

[bwgood77]

The trade forum is insteresting. There is an MKG for Noel thread in there that someone proposed and fans of both teams are really against it, particularly Hornets fans.

Then of course my thought of a reasonable trade of the 4 for Lyles and 12 (not sure I'd do it but probably wouldn't, and definitely wouldn't if Bender is there), was met with avid no's from Jazz fans, and some say they wouldn't trade Lyles by himself for 4.

Suns fans get killed for "overvaluing their own players" in that forum. But EVERY teams fans do it. This is a perfect example.

Everyone overvalues their players, yeah, but I've noticed Suns fan that post there get super defensive and unnecessarily aggressive towards anyone that proposes a trade they don't like. Could be because I generally only read Suns related trades, but still

Yes, though it seems to have gotten better recently. Welcome back. Haven't seen you in a while.

[Qwigglez]

Yeah but what team is going to make a ridiculously good offer that doesn't take a step back because they just traded their entire roster away? We could trade everything that guy mentioned and then we'd have Bledsoe/Knight/George/Chandler. Boston could offer all of their picks plus Crowder/Smart and they'd have IT/George to build around. You'd basically be banking on George staying after two years instead of leaving for free agency and this is where problems arise IMO. You don't know if George would want to stay, if he likes the organization, etc.

edit* I guess the Lakers could offer Ingram (No 2), Russell, and Randle for George. I'd think that is fair value. But if Lakers strike out on free agency in two offseasons I could see George bolting and then the Lakers are left with nothing.

[bwgood77]

Yeah but what team is going to make a ridiculously good offer that doesn't take a step back because they just traded their entire roster away? We could trade everything that guy mentioned and then we'd have Bledsoe/Knight/George/Chandler. Boston could offer all of their picks plus Crowder/Smart and they'd have IT/George to build around. You'd basically be banking on George staying after two years instead of leaving for free agency and this is where problems arise IMO. You don't know if George would want to stay, if he likes the organization, etc.

edit* I guess the Lakers could offer Ingram (No 2), Russell, and Randle for George. I'd think that is fair value. But if Lakers strike out on free agency in two offseasons I could see George bolting and then the Lakers are left with nothing.

Funny thing is in your edit, I think that exact offer or close to it was discussed on the Pacers forum, and I guess he might want to play for the Lakers....sounds like he might have said something like that based on the posts I read. It would really suck to trade a big package for him and have him leave to go to the Lakers.

[Qwigglez]

I remember hearing something about him wanting to play for purple and gold a while ago. I think the Lakers would rather continue rebuilding and waiting for two years to land PG as a free agent instead of giving up a giant haul to get him via trade.

[Safety Pickle]

Suns fans get killed for "overvaluing their own players" in that forum. But EVERY teams fans do it. This is a perfect example.

Everyone overvalues their players, yeah, but I've noticed Suns fan that post there get super defensive and unnecessarily aggressive towards anyone that proposes a trade they don't like. Could be because I generally only read Suns related trades, but still

Yes, though it seems to have gotten better recently. Welcome back. Haven't seen you in a while.

Thanks.. Not a lot going on with our team recently so I've just been lurking

[Mulhollanddrive]

Well last off-season Goodwin was the next Wade and the dealbreaker for Paul George.

[RaisingArizona]

I always see George proposals which I find a bit ridiculous since I can't imagine a small market team trading their centerpiece, but thought that maybe there was something I didn't know....so I posed the question on the Indy board..

Do you think there is a possibility George gets traded and if so, why? I keep seeing Suns fans post George trade scenarios and I keep saying there is no way he is being traded, particularly for anything the Suns have to offer. Am I wrong?

No, not really. He's still super young, as is Myles Turner. I think Bird would want a chance to build around Paul George for 2 more years rather than giving up 2 years early.

For Phoenix, missing out on moving up into the top 2 of the lottery hurt any offer they could've made. But, a top 2 pick this year, Booker, 13, and the future Miami 1sts would've made a solid offer. As such, 4, 13, Booker, Len, and the 2 Miami 1sts is the best you can offer, and that just may not be enough. It's a big difference in value from 2 to 4.

More likely trade between the two of us this summer? Our 20 for your 28 and 34.

Haha. When did PG become MJ?