2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch - Revised Poll

[Ghost of Kleine]

Speaking of Terry's need to get stronger and add weight and muscle:

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Good to see that the work ethic and commitment to improvement is there. I really think he can project along the lines of Tre Young in terms of potential/ production/ skillset after a few seasons of development. Would getting a Tre Young clone at the backup Point guard position warrant a top 10 pick in this draft??? How about having a potential core of Ayton/ Bridges/ Booker and a Tre Young ( potentially)???

[Ghost of Kleine]

We really just need to identify and secure a dynamic guard that can create strong gravity for us, is a solid scorer, solid passer, And has a somewhat dynamic skillset or hopefully one or two elite attributes to their game.

[darmani]

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Too bad he won't be available at #10.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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Too bad he won't be available at #10.

Hey man, What are your thoughts on his potential as a secondary creator option beside either Booker or Rubio should in some bizarre circumstance, He fall to 10 for us. Do you think his versatility and ball handling abilities at 6'9 could offer us a very unique opportunity to go really big at times with "Point Book" Deni or Cam alternating at the 2/3 spots. And either Oubre and Bridges alternating at times at the 4. Could that create potential beneficial confusion/ chaos for opposing defenses with us potentially having 3-4 pretty versatile and dynamic big wing players with switchability all over the court with Booker and Ayton?

And also, IF Deni obviously isn't there anyways at 10, Then what are your thoughts on Bolmero at the two playing off of Booker and Rubio? Could he maybe develop along the lines of a bigger Dragic possibly? Is he a very viable consideration? Or do you have a different preference on guard options on your big board? Just curious?

[AtheJ415]

Avdija is growing on me, as is Vassell. Toppin is dropping for me.

Think I'd go (outside of the guys we obviously won't get because they'll go top 3 (Ball, Edwards, Wiseman):

1a. Hayes
1b. Haliburton
2. Vassell (just honestly he is as complete a 2 way guy in the draft). If we're going point book he's the type of defender who can make it work.
3. Avdija
4. Toppin
5. Maybe Kira Lewis because I see some upside there if you think his speed makes him fox-like, but not in love with him that high.

Later on in the draft if we can trade back in I'd target Riller, Jalen Smith, Josh Green, Bey (both Tyler and Saddiq), Kira Lewis, Carey, Tillie.

Undrafted targets: Myles Powell, Corey Kispert, Ayo Dosonmu, Charles Bassey.

[Ghost of Kleine]

If we decided to draft Deni Avdija ( IF he's there when we pick), Then what about taking a flyer on his teammate here?

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He's projected to go late 2nd -undrafted. But he's a pretty good shooter, has high energy and tenacity. And he's also got a high basketball IQ. He's been called the " Israeli Steph Curry ". But he could be a nice low risk/ high reward consideration?

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

If we decided to draft Deni Avdija ( IF he's there when we pick), Then what about taking a flyer on his teammate here?

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He's projected to go late 2nd -undrafted. But he's a pretty good shooter, has high energy and tenacity. And he's also got a high basketball IQ. He's been called the " Israeli Steph Curry ". But he could be a nice low risk/ high reward consideration?

The Israeli Steph Curry shoots 25% from three?

https://www.proballers.com/basketball/player/175563/yam-madar#:~:text=Yam%20Madar's%20career&text=Yam%20Madar%20averaged%208.2%20points,Holon%20on%20October%2005%2C%202019.

[bwgood77]

Avdija is growing on me, as is Vassell. Toppin is dropping for me.

Think I'd go (outside of the guys we obviously won't get because they'll go top 3 (Ball, Edwards, Wiseman):

1a. Hayes
1b. Haliburton
2. Vassell (just honestly he is as complete a 2 way guy in the draft). If we're going point book he's the type of defender who can make it work.
3. Avdija
4. Toppin
5. Maybe Kira Lewis because I see some upside there if you think his speed makes him fox-like, but not in love with him that high.

Later on in the draft if we can trade back in I'd target Riller, Jalen Smith, Josh Green, Bey (both Tyler and Saddiq), Kira Lewis, Carey, Tillie.

Undrafted targets: Myles Powell, Corey Kispert, Ayo Dosonmu, Charles Bassey.

I think I'd be happy with any of those top 5. I might order them differently...I really like Vassell, but I might put him below the PFs. I also really like Avidja. I love the idea of how devastating our team would be on offense, but you have the similar defensive concerns as we had with Ayton, though we knew Ayton had about as good as potential defensive tools as anyone.

I wonder when they are going to do the lottery. It would be nice to jump to top 4. I'd say it would ensure one of those guys (or probably our choice of 3 or 4 of them) but there would obviously be a good chance the FO would surprise us.

14% to be top 4, so not terrible.

I think I'd prefer getting either PF though over the others. Hayes might be right there with them and he sounds good in theory but I haven't seen him enough. I think both PFs are probably close to plug and play, at least 15 minutes a game. I'm not real high on Jerome but don't want to completely give up on him either, and we have Rubio a couple more years at least. I would love a nice upgrade at backup PG, but I think that would be easier to come by using other avenues than finding a PF with potential and such the array of skills that both Avidja and Toppin have.

However, if these consensus rankings are accurate at all, and we stay at 10, it appears the guys out of that list with the best chance of being there at 10 are Vassell and Halliburton...with Hayes next best chance, with 4 media big boards having him 10 or 11.

[Ghost of Kleine]

If we decided to draft Deni Avdija ( IF he's there when we pick), Then what about taking a flyer on his teammate here?

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He's projected to go late 2nd -undrafted. But he's a pretty good shooter, has high energy and tenacity. And he's also got a high basketball IQ. He's been called the " Israeli Steph Curry ". But he could be a nice low risk/ high reward consideration?

The Israeli Steph Curry shoots 25% from three?

https://www.proballers.com/basketball/player/175563/yam-madar#:~:text=Yam%20Madar's%20career&text=Yam%20Madar%20averaged%208.2%20points,Holon%20on%20October%2005%2C%202019.

Yeah!

Maybe in Israel, That's their closest option for that available comparison for a player at that position? Or perhaps they're simply looking for some player to hype up to represent them apart from Avdija alone? Anyways, I merely stated that he's been called that, Not that I agree with/ endorse the comparison personally. However, As I again wouldn't be opposed to taking a flier on him, As I do really like his tenacity, intangibles, very strong work ethic, his near " relentless defensive intensity" and basketball IQ. Plus he's also a pretty good passer at around 5.6 assists per 36. Yes, He will of course need to improve his strength and shooting inconsistencies. But to be far, Tyreese Maxey is hyped as a potential elite scorer in the draft by some nba scouts/ pundits, Whilst not shooting much better from three, And is still considered a solid first round pick, And he start his nba career with his overall game predicated primarily upon his defensive skillset until his shooting improves, similar in some ways to that of Madar.

Also, It's really hard to guage actual potential with Madar, As his shooting samples are so small, And he's not really been given enough playing time/ minutes to give an accurate profile. But he'd probably have to start his nba career as an ultra tenacious high energy lockdown on ball defender/ playmaker, Whilst developing his shot more consistently. So I could see value in that regard for him, As all teams could use a relentless on ball defender with lockdown potential and a decent playmaking skillset, with a developing jumpshot too.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/advanceprobasketball.com/2020/04/14/yam-madar-a-euroball-nba-draft-prospect-scouting-report-by-stefan-odea/amp/

STRENGTHS

1) Court Vision

2)Passing Ability

3)Mentality

I think Madar has a winner mentality. He is not afraid of the big moments(end of games). I saw some brave decisions from him in the end of games. Ok, sometimes he overthinks and takes rushed decisions but after he will gain more experience, can be a good weapon the end of game situations.

CONCLUSION

Yam Madar is long-term prospect with a winner mentality that has a high ceiling. In time, he projects to be a really strong initiator with a great IQ and feel for the game. Also has a big potential defensively.

Next season I would want to see him play at an NBA team(even though it is hard for the 2020 NBA DRAFT) or at an European Team that plays in the European Competitions  (Euroleague, Eurocup or Champions League) because he will get a lot of experience (from the big number of games) and also will face a lot of adversity, playing against teams from different countries and this will help his game a lot.

Needs to improve his strength (upper body) and to develop consistency on his shots.

After he will be improved in those 2 aspects, Madar can become a great PG at a team with high ambitions. Good shooter, great passer and can be one of the best defenders in Europe.

If he can improve his shooting consistency more, Then he could potentially be a very decent late 2nd/ two way prospect.

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Although I would perhaps prefer Jared Butler, Skylar Mays or Isiah Joe before him. But at the end of the 2nd round, Or as an undrafted prospect, The overall cost/ risk would be minimal. And his mature mentality, Work ethic, drive and determination to improve are incredible. So I'm fairly positive that he'd improve his shooting statistics and overall game IF only given more opportunities. But I'd take him with a late first, Or on a two way contract. Throw him into the G league for a year or so to develop on a higher level, And with more playing time. I absolutely think he's got solid potential.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Spoiler:

I agree with most of the things that he said, With the exceptions of Jalen Smith only being cast as a 5. If you watch his game tape extensively, You'll find that his movement though at times somewhat stiff is greatly improved, And he's really actually fluid enough to guard today's 4s' quite effectively. But most importantly he has the best overall offensive skillset of all of the bigs available aside from maybe Poku coming in 2nd ,But whose unfortunately a much bigger risk scenario honestly. I for my part think he'd be an ideal 3 and D 4 next to Ayton. And yes, He can also spend some spot minutes at the 5 as well.

And maybe the idea that Riller couldn't become a good facilitator ( passer) and that he's not likely to be a good defender. As for Rillers' passing:

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And his defensive ability:

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So given his elite burst, strong athleticism and strong frame, I think he can at the very least become a passable to possibly a plus defender IF he gets locked in.

And the last thing that I disagree with somewhat is that Terry will be a bench level microwave scoring guard at best. To me, His basketball IQ, crafty scoring and passing ability and most of all his ELITE shooting abilities will give him the potential to maybe reach a comparable level as a Trae Young or even an ultimate ceiling of a Steph Curry in terms of of elite perimetershooting in time. And honestly, the direction that the league has been heading in terms of calling fouls on the slightest of contact could only play to his benefit as well, As he's shooting close to 90% on his free throws. Which would be invaluable to our team in late game situations obviously too.

Also, I know that you're not particularly high on Kira Lewis, But for my part, I view his elite speed and ability to consistently breakdown the defense and get to the rim as a potential tremendous benefit to a team such as ours, In that he would create tremendous gravity upon his penetration, Likely leading to continuous open looks for our shooters on the perimeter. Plus given his speed, The amount of fouls that he'd draw on the opposing defenses would be yet another benefit to our team.

So with either Riller or Lewis, The opposing defense will have to collapse in the paint, leaving our shooters wide open! And with Terry, the defense can't afford to collapse in the paint or double Ayton and leave Terry wide open! Much less any of Cam, Booker or Bridges possibly! To me, That's wherein their skillsets become invaluable to us.

As for Deni or Hayes in a top 3 scenario, I'd of course prefer Ball, Wouldn't touch Edwards, and would be very happy with either Hayes as our primary backup guard OR IF Avdija, Then use him in a frontcourt playmaking role at the 3 honestly. I see him with potential to become similar to a Gordon Hayward. Then you of course use the additional cap space acquired by the trade to secure a bigger name 4 such as Gallinari or Ibaka or Jerami Grant. Personally, I'd go with Grant to be interchangeable with Avdija at the 3/4 ( depending upon the situation).

And look to try and trade back into the draft for a backup guard option. At this point, I'd rate the best options as Malachi Flynn ( 1), Jared Butler ( 2), and then Payton Pritchard ( 3). I'm very intrigued to see which teams will be choosing to trade back. If I had to guess, I'd figure between 4-6 teams will be trading throughout the first round. Us being one of them. And with the descending and restrictive cap being a primary motivator. And the balance of value/ potential being somewhat similar throughout.

I like Ty better than those last three PG's you mention. I'd like to give the kid under contract a chance. I think you're dreaming a bit with Terry - not saying you're wrong, but I think your degree of confidence is misguided.

As for Jalen, that's one point on which Spencer and I most fervently agree. At your recommendation, though, I'll go do a deeper dive on him, because I do believe in that shot.

Tyshon Alexander would definitely be another really solid option with a late 2nd. Nice find by the way! Although he does of course need to continue to improve upon his shot selection, rebounding, defensive lapses and overall passing/court vision. But he's definitely got potential and could be a potential steal with a mid- late 2nd , IF he's fully committed to improvment.

As for Terry, I'll agree that those are pretty lofty comps! And he's definitely going to have to go to a good developmental situation to have a chance to reach those goals. But again, His shooting is absolutely ELITE. And he's a very clever and crafty scorer around the rim. And IF his shooting and quick release translates, he'll still be ab elite perimeter shooter with above average passing ability and a really high basketball IQ. As for his slight frame and lack of strength, I strongly believe that in the NBA, And once on a professional diet and strength training program, He'll add the necessary strength to become very effective. I mean just compare his elite shooting and crafty dribble penetration and slick passing skillset to that of Trae Young!

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Or even to that of Steph Curry's off the screen/ dribble hand off and spot up shooting similarities too.

Watch on YouTube

Finally, As for Jalen, I respect that we have differing perspectives on his positional abilities, But I'm still standing by my original position that he's fully capable as a 4/5. And that he has enough fluidity and improving mobility that he'll be a very solid 3 and D power forward/ center. Very similar to Serge Ibaka honestly and of course depending upon situation and circumstantial needs of the team.

So, I watched more film of Jalen. I was wrong. Sure, he's flat-footed at times, but he can also get in a stance and defend OK on the perimeter when needed. It's pretty clear that wasn't Maryland's game plan, so maybe he just didn't get a lot of reps defending the perimeter: maybe he has more there.

What was obvious to me, though, was how much I underestimated his energy and toughness. I like the way he comes across in interviews. As I said, the shooting is legit. He's younger than most of the other bigs in this class. I'm still not sold that he's a 4, because he doesn't dribble much and played the 5 exclusively in college. But there's a chance. And there's a few things I can't deny:

- He was the best player on a top team in college basketball last season. The last time Maryland had a heralded big man (you know who he is), that team didn't do jack ****. Winning is big in my book.

- The combo of advanced stats and youth is, to me, the best predictor of NBA success. Except that doesn't work very well for NCAA centers, just due to the incredible advantage a team has just by having a true big at that level. Jalen's just unusual among NCAA bigs due to that stroke.

If you're looking at players his age with his advanced stats, you're looking at just a handful of players: Smith, Haliburton, Okongwu, Vassell, and then the bigs - Carey and Azubuike. Those first four guys are maybe the safest picks in the draft.

So... I'm moving Smith ahead of Paul Reed, because that's what my head says is right. He may just be a backup center, but if all he does is give Ayton a killer backup, that's still not bad. And he shows flashes of ball handling, switching and dribble pull ups so... there might be more there.

Really, there are lots of solid prospects in this draft. I can see why you would rather have two mid-late firsts than one pick near the back of the lotto (unless Vassell slides to within your range, then by all means, grab him!).

[Ghost of Kleine]

Spoiler:

I like Ty better than those last three PG's you mention. I'd like to give the kid under contract a chance. I think you're dreaming a bit with Terry - not saying you're wrong, but I think your degree of confidence is misguided.

As for Jalen, that's one point on which Spencer and I most fervently agree. At your recommendation, though, I'll go do a deeper dive on him, because I do believe in that shot.

Tyshon Alexander would definitely be another really solid option with a late 2nd. Nice find by the way! Although he does of course need to continue to improve upon his shot selection, rebounding, defensive lapses and overall passing/court vision. But he's definitely got potential and could be a potential steal with a mid- late 2nd , IF he's fully committed to improvment.

As for Terry, I'll agree that those are pretty lofty comps! And he's definitely going to have to go to a good developmental situation to have a chance to reach those goals. But again, His shooting is absolutely ELITE. And he's a very clever and crafty scorer around the rim. And IF his shooting and quick release translates, he'll still be ab elite perimeter shooter with above average passing ability and a really high basketball IQ. As for his slight frame and lack of strength, I strongly believe that in the NBA, And once on a professional diet and strength training program, He'll add the necessary strength to become very effective. I mean just compare his elite shooting and crafty dribble penetration and slick passing skillset to that of Trae Young!

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Or even to that of Steph Curry's off the screen/ dribble hand off and spot up shooting similarities too.

Watch on YouTube

Finally, As for Jalen, I respect that we have differing perspectives on his positional abilities, But I'm still standing by my original position that he's fully capable as a 4/5. And that he has enough fluidity and improving mobility that he'll be a very solid 3 and D power forward/ center. Very similar to Serge Ibaka honestly and of course depending upon situation and circumstantial needs of the team.

So, I watched more film of Jalen. I was wrong. Sure, he's flat-footed at times, but he can also get in a stance and defend OK on the perimeter when needed. It's pretty clear that wasn't Maryland's game plan, so maybe he just didn't get a lot of reps defending the perimeter: maybe he has more there.

What was obvious to me, though, was how much I underestimated his energy and toughness. I like the way he comes across in interviews. As I said, the shooting is legit. He's younger than most of the other bigs in this class. I'm still not sold that he's a 4, because he doesn't dribble much and played the 5 exclusively in college. But there's a chance. And there's a few things I can't deny:

- He was the best player on a top team in college basketball last season. The last time Maryland had a heralded big man (you know who he is), that team didn't do jack ****. Winning is big in my book.

- The combo of advanced stats and youth is, to me, the best predictor of NBA success. Except that doesn't work very well for NCAA centers, just due to the incredible advantage a team has just by having a true big at that level. Jalen's just unusual among NCAA bigs due to that stroke.

If you're looking at players his age with his advanced stats, you're looking at just a handful of players: Smith, Haliburton, Okongwu, Vassell, and then the bigs - Carey and Azubuike. Those first four guys are maybe the safest picks in the draft.

So... I'm moving Smith ahead of Paul Reed, because that's what my head says is right. He may just be a backup center, but if all he does is give Ayton a killer backup, that's still not bad. And he shows flashes of ball handling, switching and dribble pull ups so... there might be more there.

Really, there are lots of solid prospects in this draft. I can see why you would rather have two mid-late firsts than one pick near the back of the lotto (unless Vassell slides to within your range, then by all means, grab him!).

Absolutely! And great introspection too man!
I see this draft as unique in that it has solid value pretty much throughout honestly, IF a team just does its homework and research properly. I believe that we can at the very least address our needs for more depth at multiple positions, Whilst keeping our team cap flexibility as needed. In that regard, I see this draft as having premium value to us, Despite not carrying much premium talent or franchise cornerstone potential. I'd hope that we would choose to at the very least address our lack of depth at the 4 with a very solid 3 and D 4/5 prospect in either Jalen Smith or Paul Reed. Truly I would be happy with either. And also use our 10th pick to select a really high potential backup guard to be groomed behind Rubio. That way, IF we can address our 2 biggest roster needs positionally in the draft, Then we can utilize our cap space for a much better higher caliber veteran player of need.

As for Smith, I agree, And it's definitely his shooting ability that places him first for me on my power forward list. Also I strongly believe that with the right development, His defensive awareness, ball handling ability and overall skillset will improve greatly resulting in him being an even more impactful player on the court. As for him playing at the 4, I just see him as more or less a much better defensive ( rim protection), more athletic version of Kaminsky. I say this with respect to them both being big, lanky, floor spacing big men with pretty good mobility and fluidity. Both can space the floor well and have a solid 3 point shot. The only difference being that Kaminsky even at 7 ft. Isn't all that athletic, Nor is he anywhere near the shotblocker and rebounder that Jalen Smith is. But seeing as how Kaminsky was able to play sporadically at the 4 with Ayton, And be effective spacing the floor, I feel that Smith can serve a similar purpose, Yet also be able to dive and provide much better weakside shotblocking and rebounding than what we saw from either Kaminsky or even Saric most likely. And again, at a fraction of the price.

Anyways, Great post as always man, And this draft is going to be really interesting for sure!

[Ghost of Kleine]

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It will be really intriguing to see what Yam Madar can do with actual playing time/ minutes. And also what his production and shooting metrics will show with more time? But again, I do think there's really solid, possibly untapped potential with him. And he may very well be a late 2nd consideration IF his production holds.

[bwgood77]

I think some nice bullet point breakdowns of prospects (pluses and minuses) might be good for those who don't have time to read long posts (but those below bullet points in spoiler)...just an idea...maybe everyone does read them, but when you come and there are like 10 posts like that, I think some might skip through them.

I think it might initiate more discussion and feedback.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Definitely right man! And a very solid proposal.

[Weemsickew14]

A scenario I can get behind is trading our pick back to around 17-18 and selecting Tyler Bey. His defense and court instincts are some of the best in the draft and it looks like his Jumper can translate with some work.

[Ghost of Kleine]

A scenario I can get behind is trading our pick back to around 17-18 and selecting Tyler Bey. His defense and court instincts are some of the best in the draft and it looks like his Jumper can translate with some work.

Absolutely, I think that he's a really underrated defender/ player overall. And I think that he'll end up being one of the major steals of this draft with his elite defensive playmaking ability and elite defensive awareness, athleticism, and rim protection. And he's really working on his offensive improvement as well. I would love to see him in a lockdown defensive scenario occasionally with " Point Book" then Bridges at the 2 guard, Bey at the 3, Oubre at the 4, Ayton at the 5. So more or less could look something like:

Booker/ Bridges/ Bey/ Oubre/ Ayton.
Or a 2nd unit of:
Rubio/ Free agent ( Forbes)? / Cam/ Bey/ Baynes? Really, We could switch to many different combinations between Oubre, Bey, Bridges, As they're all so highly interchangeable. I also like him as a small ball 4 in an up tempo scheme at times too. Just have Booker, Bridges, Oubre, Ayton all going full speed to the front of the rim, playing fast break basketball.

[RedIndian]

We shouldn't sleep on Cole Anthony, despite his highly inefficient college season. I think he'll be a better as a pro with the better spacing he gets in the NBA. Terrific ball handling, excellent first step and a sound looking stroke. I like that he tries on defense too - very good rebounder and shot blocker for a guard.

[WeekapaugGroove]

We shouldn't sleep on Cole Anthony, despite his highly inefficient college season. I think he'll be a better as a pro with the better spacing he gets in the NBA. Terrific ball handling, excellent first step and a sound looking stroke. I like that he tries on defense too - very good rebounder and shot blocker for a guard.

He's an interesting bet on talent if he's there at 11. Had a relatively poor season considering expectations but as you mentioned he could be one of those guys who's better in the pro game.

I don't remember where I read it but there was a study a few years back that said high school rankings were actually one of the best indicators of pro success. Basically talent trumps college production.

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[RedIndian]

Yep, the talent is undeniable. His shiftiness, first step, exceptionall ball control and solid shooting fundamentals mean he can be a 3 level scorer in the NBA. Very competitive on defense too, which is great to see in a young player. Been reading very good things about his drive and work ethic as well.

I'd initially soured on him because of his injury, and because of his wildly inefficient college season, but I think his talent and work ethic are worth betting on.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Yep, the talent is undeniable. His shiftiness, first step, exceptionall ball control and solid shooting fundamentals mean he can be a 3 level scorer in the NBA. Very competitive on defense too, which is great to see in a young player. Been reading very good things about his drive and work ethic as well.

I'd initially soured on him because of his injury, and because of his wildly inefficient college season, but I think his talent and work ethic are worth betting on.

One thing that should be noted when looking at efficiency numbers in college is you're dealing with small sample sizes. It's all we have to go on so shouldn't be completely ignored but just a few really bad or really good shooting games can swing these stats a ton.

Hell Derrick Williams shot like 45% from 3 at AZ and that proved to be a fluke. Josh Jackson shot better from 3 than Tatum in college. Flukes happen.

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