2025-26 Season News & Discussion

[Qwigglez]

If I was Ishbia I'd called the Lakers and offer Mark Williams for Knecht, and then hang up.

Knecht is not the missing link the Suns need.

[TeamTragic]

If I was Ishbia I'd called the Lakers and offer Mark Williams for Knecht, and then hang up.

Knecht is not the missing link the Suns need.

We can make other trades to make room for Knecht. I would move Royce for him.

[Qwigglez]

If I was Ishbia I'd called the Lakers and offer Mark Williams for Knecht, and then hang up.

Knecht is not the missing link the Suns need.

We can make other trades to make room for Knecht. I would move Royce for him.

If the Suns were like 8-14 I'd probably consider that. But I don't think Knecht brings anything unique to the team.

If we were just trying to move Royce O'Neal to get a more long-term starter at PF, I'd consider a three team trade like this...
Suns get -
Obi Toppin

Pacers get -
Dalton Knecht
Maxi Kleber

Lakers get -
Royce O'Neal
Nick Richards

[lilfishi22]

Yes, both Allen and O'neale are key players to our 3 pt shooting schemes. And both have been really good at times too. And 3 point shooting is really important for our offensive success. However, we don't even know what the framework would look like in a Zion trade, and it's quite possible that we'd keep one of those two possibly if buying low ( Zion's lowest value ever currently).

Also, let's not act like as good as they are as role players for us, that 3 point shooting specialists are very difficult to obtain. There's plenty of 3 point shooting guards that we could pick up/ seek from trade, free agency, buyout pool, or possibly even the unsigned nba players lists.

As you know I've extensively formulated various for specific players and roles for our needs in the past. They've been solid for us, but emotional attachments aside, are far from irreplaceable.

But even if we theoretically did have to lose those two in a Zion trade premise, the sheer gravity that Zion creates when on the floor pulls multiple defenders in so much that any of our shooters would have much more wide open looks.

And this would allow for much better efficiency from our other shooters or shooters we might acquire to replace those two players in a worst case scenario.

As for the idea of cutting Zion, that should be more of an alternative than the primary goal. Let's not forget that in reality, we are a low key rebuilding team with play in projections that absent recency bias, has exceeded expectations. But has still shown our true ceiling when playing the actual Legitimate top teams.

Sure, we're good for maybe a 2nd round exit if very lucky having everything break our way. But ultimately, we're a low end playoff fodder team with limited cap space, no draft assets, a 29 yr old centerpiece star and still having real weaknesses at the power forward and guard positions.

We've done really well so far. But in reality, we should still be trying to improve creatively when possible. And to do that requires some level of risks. Unless everyone is happy being a treadmilling playin team until Booker leaves or asks out eventually.

You mention that If Zion plays 41 games then we'll be on the hook for $17 million. I don't know about you, but $17 million for a player that's virtually unstoppable in the frontcourt/ going to the rim, who pulls major gravity, and puts up near triple double production is one hell of a bargain for us given our current situation!

And if he plays 51 games then $25 million for an unstoppable player with triple double production for Booker and J Green to play off of? I'll take that everyday of the week in comparison to our current conditions. Zion averages nearly a triple double whenever he plays.

How often do our beloved key players (Allen and O'neale) average that even combined? We'd be getting that production needed from multiple players out of a singular player in Zion. This would give us more options to help carry the load in case of potential injury.

And the very severe implied risks involved in a worst case scenario are again nullified if he can't/ doesn't play. So either your getting top tier triple double production, or worst case scenario, your clearing upwards of 39-40 million if things somehow didn't work out here.

That 40 million now being able to be applied to resigning Gillespie and Williams without going as deeply back into the tax.

The other considerations that apparently no one seems to bring up is that

1- if Zion can do well here and experience a renaissance of sorts or shows durability, not only does he drastically elevate our ceiling outcome, but he becomes a premium trade chip for us to possinly reqcquire more future assets WITHOUT HAVING TO TRADE BOOKER.

2- Given our current cap situation, there's no real guarantee that we wouldn't look to still offload Allen and O'neales' salaries in order to create cap flexibility towards resigning Gillespie and Williams. Unless you believe the consensus is they're viewed as more valuable than Gillespie and Williams have been for us.

My point being that our roster changing (even possibly after this very season is inevitable man! Our situation is just not financially sustainable unless Ishbias' willing to get back into the tax to field a "fun to watch" play in team. The contracts that we have alongside of Booker's supermax deal dictate that some players will have to he moved.

I like our roster, but I'm not oblivious to the needs of our future or the necessity to get better and elevate ourselves competitively with talent to try and maximize Booker's remaining time here, and to add more talent (assets) that can be moved to reacquire some semblance of a future for us! To reap any rewards, you have to take risks.

What is the framework for a Zion deal then.

Apologies for the late response, I've found myself very limited time to do much of anything outside of work during this holidays.
But to your question of what a framework might look like if trading for Zion by the deadline.

Given the lack of salary versatility and your interest in holding onto at least one of if not both of Allen and O'neale for their floor spacing acumen, you'll be pleased to know that any trade for Zion under potential frameworks they might construct would require one of either J Green or Brooks as an inclusive salary centerpiece.

This is mainly due to our current cap situation as an over apron/ lux tax threshold, but still around 8 million under the 1st apron.

Considering the lopsided salary table we currently have, we don't have enough smaller salary contracts to equitably match Zion's 39 million salary without sending out some combination of Allen, O'neale, Richards, Goodwin, and two other contracts because in our current situation, our trade exemptions are currently frozen. And we can't aggregate TPEs' anyways in interest of combining with larger salaries ( outgoing) to match within 125% under this CBA.

Ultimately a few possible frameworks (outside a 3rd team being involved to send out larger salaries or cap space to help accommodate the trade) : (Keeping one of Allen or O'neale)

1- J Green/ Richards/ O'neale for Zion/ Saddiq Bey ( for replacement 3 point shooting).
** In this trade, we're keeping Allen. But also getting back Bey at 6'7 who has more size and shoots threes.

2- J Green / Allen/ Richards for Zion/ Saddiq Bey/ Karlo Matovic.

** In this trade, we're keeping O'neale and adding Bey for 3 point shooting and 6'11 PF Karlo Matovic as a young athletic two way big with developing three point shot. We're also shaving another 8 million off our salary cap.

3- Dillon Brooks/ Allen/ Richards for Zion/ Matovic/ Peavy ( similar to Livers).

** I'd also ask for H Dickinson to give us a young 7'2 265 lb bulkier center ( Nurkic mold) but more Mobile/ fluid defensively. Then our center rotation would become Williams/ Maluach/ Dickinson.

4- Brooks/ O'neale/ Richards/ Goodwin/ Ighodaro for Zion Williamson.

** Hate the idea of giving up Brooks as he's been a culture setter for us. I'm meh on giving up O'neale and Ighodaro. Don't like giving up Goodwin either. BUT there'll be other options at backup guard for a Goodwin replacement.

A trade with us keeping all of Booker, J Green and Brooks would require it to be expanded to a 3rd team trade in a very difficult scenario sending different pieces / cap space back to us, and then other pieces along with what we send to New Orleans. ( Allen, O'neale, Richards to 3rd team and bigger contract/ s other pieces going to New Orleans for Zion).

That's just some initial premises quickly constructed so far for some examples man.

It's insane to trade a 23yo former #3 pick with potential for a guy who's perpetually injured. If I was moving him, it would be to a team that is high on Green and actually willing to move real assets for him.

I'm open to trading Brooks and Allen but we can get way more than a broken down Zion for those 2.

[lilfishi22]

Sabonis for Green and Richards works financially. Suns are a bit more balanced and not so guard heavy. I believe Sabonis doesn't like playing center that much anyway, so keeping Mark Williams is key here.

Gillespie / Goodwin / Bouyea
Booker / Allen / Brea
Brooks / Dunn / Fleming
Sabonis / Royce / Hayes-Davis
Williams / Oso / Maluach

I like Sabonis the player. I think he would work next to Williams given he can stretch the floor (38,4% from 3 since his last AS selection). He'd need to shoot a lot more but I think it could work. It does clear the back court a fair bit as you mentioned. The issue might just be salary.

[lilfishi22]

Read on Twitter

As king shared above, Sabonis although intruiging, would take quite a bit ( of much we don't even have) to get. And even though we do need help to pick up the load during times of injury to Booker and/ or J Green, I'm not sure we have the salaries to make a deal work.

And we definitely don't have the draft assets either for what they'd be asking for in return.

Is sabonis well suited to play PF though? I don't like the idea of moving Williams for him.

He's more or less a fancier more skilled version of what we probably believe that we have with Oso. I'd much rather try to play him at power forward and let Brooks and Williams flank him at their respective positions defensively to maximize value if they traded for him.

And he would somewhat balance the roster more positionally. But I also wouldn't want to give up J Green for him and we likely don't have the assets the Kings would be looking for without including one of J Green, Booker or Brooks and Richards.

For my part, I see J Green as having much more long term value/ talent/ upside potential than Sabonis too.

And I'm very intrigued to actually see a larger sample size with him playing before considering a Sabonis trade were he could be a centerpiece inclusion.

Sabonis has played 28 more games in just the last 3 seasons than Zion has over his 7 year career. But you're willing to move JGreen for Zion but not Sabonis?

[lilfishi22]

Read on Twitter

Richards for Knecht and a 26' or 27' 2nd.

I'd do that in a heartbeat but Lakers could get way more value out of Dalton than a 2nd and a crap C

[lilfishi22]

If I was Ishbia I'd called the Lakers and offer Mark Williams for Knecht, and then hang up.

Knecht is not the missing link the Suns need.

We can make other trades to make room for Knecht. I would move Royce for him.

If the Suns were like 8-14 I'd probably consider that. But I don't think Knecht brings anything unique to the team.

If we were just trying to move Royce O'Neal to get a more long-term starter at PF, I'd consider a three team trade like this...
Suns get -
Obi Toppin

Pacers get -
Dalton Knecht
Maxi Kleber

Lakers get -
Royce O'Neal
Nick Richards

Youth and potential is what he'd bring, something which probably aligns better with the age of our future core. He's certainly not better than Royce right now but one guy is 24 and the other is 32 so it's worth considering.

I'd also seriously consider the 3 team trade you've proposed.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

Richards for Knecht and a 26' or 27' 2nd.

I'd do that in a heartbeat but Lakers could get way more value out of Dalton than a 2nd and a crap C

True! Though I'd hope that they ask anyways...lol.

[lilfishi22]

Watch on YouTube

Good breakdown of the Kuminga headache in San Fran. The interesting comment coach Mike made:

But the honeymoon didn’t last and he went back to interrupting the flow of the offense to break off into isolation shots for the dreaded mid-range. In a make or miss league, if he insisted on taking the Durant-style shots, then he would have needed to make more than he is. Whether he thinks he has the talent to do this or not, at some point if the percentages stay this low, it’s time to adjust — especially when playing in your fifth NBA season. And these shots don’t magically start going in on a different team and offensive system.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Is sabonis well suited to play PF though? I don't like the idea of moving Williams for him.

He's more or less a fancier more skilled version of what we probably believe that we have with Oso. I'd much rather try to play him at power forward and let Brooks and Williams flank him at their respective positions defensively to maximize value if they traded for him.

And he would somewhat balance the roster more positionally. But I also wouldn't want to give up J Green for him and we likely don't have the assets the Kings would be looking for without including one of J Green, Booker or Brooks and Richards.

For my part, I see J Green as having much more long term value/ talent/ upside potential than Sabonis too.

And I'm very intrigued to actually see a larger sample size with him playing before considering a Sabonis trade were he could be a centerpiece inclusion.

Sabonis has played 28 more games in just the last 3 seasons than Zion has over his 7 year career. But you're willing to move JGreen for Zion but not Sabonis?

For two reasons really man.

1- First, Zion when/ if he plays is much more athletically dynamic, is more unstoppable in matchups and puts up better production statistically.

2- His contract is obviously cheaper, would/ should take less to get, and most importantly is unguaranteed by his contractual clauses. So even if he plays much less than desired, we could clear that salary or essentially would be playing much less for his premised 17 million or 25 million depending upon number of games played.

Overall with Zion, we'd have more options / insurance contractually and it should cost much less to acquire him ( given his situation) and what the Kings would expect for Sabonis by comparison I'd think.

[Ghost of Kleine]

What is the framework for a Zion deal then.

Apologies for the late response, I've found myself very limited time to do much of anything outside of work during this holidays.
But to your question of what a framework might look like if trading for Zion by the deadline.

Given the lack of salary versatility and your interest in holding onto at least one of if not both of Allen and O'neale for their floor spacing acumen, you'll be pleased to know that any trade for Zion under potential frameworks they might construct would require one of either J Green or Brooks as an inclusive salary centerpiece.

This is mainly due to our current cap situation as an over apron/ lux tax threshold, but still around 8 million under the 1st apron.

Considering the lopsided salary table we currently have, we don't have enough smaller salary contracts to equitably match Zion's 39 million salary without sending out some combination of Allen, O'neale, Richards, Goodwin, and two other contracts because in our current situation, our trade exemptions are currently frozen. And we can't aggregate TPEs' anyways in interest of combining with larger salaries ( outgoing) to match within 125% under this CBA.

Ultimately a few possible frameworks (outside a 3rd team being involved to send out larger salaries or cap space to help accommodate the trade) : (Keeping one of Allen or O'neale)

1- J Green/ Richards/ O'neale for Zion/ Saddiq Bey ( for replacement 3 point shooting).
** In this trade, we're keeping Allen. But also getting back Bey at 6'7 who has more size and shoots threes.

2- J Green / Allen/ Richards for Zion/ Saddiq Bey/ Karlo Matovic.

** In this trade, we're keeping O'neale and adding Bey for 3 point shooting and 6'11 PF Karlo Matovic as a young athletic two way big with developing three point shot. We're also shaving another 8 million off our salary cap.

3- Dillon Brooks/ Allen/ Richards for Zion/ Matovic/ Peavy ( similar to Livers).

** I'd also ask for H Dickinson to give us a young 7'2 265 lb bulkier center ( Nurkic mold) but more Mobile/ fluid defensively. Then our center rotation would become Williams/ Maluach/ Dickinson.

4- Brooks/ O'neale/ Richards/ Goodwin/ Ighodaro for Zion Williamson.

** Hate the idea of giving up Brooks as he's been a culture setter for us. I'm meh on giving up O'neale and Ighodaro. Don't like giving up Goodwin either. BUT there'll be other options at backup guard for a Goodwin replacement.

A trade with us keeping all of Booker, J Green and Brooks would require it to be expanded to a 3rd team trade in a very difficult scenario sending different pieces / cap space back to us, and then other pieces along with what we send to New Orleans. ( Allen, O'neale, Richards to 3rd team and bigger contract/ s other pieces going to New Orleans for Zion).

That's just some initial premises quickly constructed so far for some examples man.

It's insane to trade a 23yo former #3 pick with potential for a guy who's perpetually injured. If I was moving him, it would be to a team that is high on Green and actually willing to move real assets for him.

I'm open to trading Brooks and Allen but we can get way more than a broken down Zion for those 2.

I understand your perspective man, I really do! And I am a fan of J Green as I'm sure you remember my posting about his production around the playoffs or right before perhaps.

But it's still a matter of subjective opinion and implied risks. Because if Zion by chance panned out here for us, you and others would have to drastically change your opinions of him. Zion if the situation worked out for us would elevate us to around thev2nd or 3rd seed, even in a stacked western conference.

And he'd be the ideal option for Booker to play off of due to how unstoppable he is going to the rim and the gravity he pulls. It'd kind of be like the Barkley trade, only obviously much more risky.

But it's important to still understand that even though we've surprised and exceeded expectations so far, Our future is still fairly limited as a low key rebuilding team. And every year Booker gets older and more prone to injury and possible value depreciation. Especially on his supermax deal.

Zion is a big swing to try and maximize Booker's remaining years with us as much as possible. And the flip side of a possible negative outcome would still yield significant cap flexibility due to his contractual clauses.

Now I still really like J Green and am intrigued to see how we might perform with a fully healthy team. But I'm also let any potential recency bias prevent me from considering such options for a potential generational talent at the pricetag of pennies on the dollar.

Especially considering our very limited situation for the coming years ( No real draft picks, and no real cap flexibility either).

I just can't be completely cool with the idea of being a slightly better than mediocre treadmilling playin team as an acceptable ceiling for our team.

The goal after all is to win, and since the front office already gave away almost all of our cap flexibility and draft picks for the next half decade, So we obviously can't properly rebuild,
as a result of those conditions, I'm all about exploring every option.

[lilfishi22]

Apologies for the late response, I've found myself very limited time to do much of anything outside of work during this holidays.
But to your question of what a framework might look like if trading for Zion by the deadline.

Given the lack of salary versatility and your interest in holding onto at least one of if not both of Allen and O'neale for their floor spacing acumen, you'll be pleased to know that any trade for Zion under potential frameworks they might construct would require one of either J Green or Brooks as an inclusive salary centerpiece.

This is mainly due to our current cap situation as an over apron/ lux tax threshold, but still around 8 million under the 1st apron.

Considering the lopsided salary table we currently have, we don't have enough smaller salary contracts to equitably match Zion's 39 million salary without sending out some combination of Allen, O'neale, Richards, Goodwin, and two other contracts because in our current situation, our trade exemptions are currently frozen. And we can't aggregate TPEs' anyways in interest of combining with larger salaries ( outgoing) to match within 125% under this CBA.

Ultimately a few possible frameworks (outside a 3rd team being involved to send out larger salaries or cap space to help accommodate the trade) : (Keeping one of Allen or O'neale)

1- J Green/ Richards/ O'neale for Zion/ Saddiq Bey ( for replacement 3 point shooting).
** In this trade, we're keeping Allen. But also getting back Bey at 6'7 who has more size and shoots threes.

2- J Green / Allen/ Richards for Zion/ Saddiq Bey/ Karlo Matovic.

** In this trade, we're keeping O'neale and adding Bey for 3 point shooting and 6'11 PF Karlo Matovic as a young athletic two way big with developing three point shot. We're also shaving another 8 million off our salary cap.

3- Dillon Brooks/ Allen/ Richards for Zion/ Matovic/ Peavy ( similar to Livers).

** I'd also ask for H Dickinson to give us a young 7'2 265 lb bulkier center ( Nurkic mold) but more Mobile/ fluid defensively. Then our center rotation would become Williams/ Maluach/ Dickinson.

4- Brooks/ O'neale/ Richards/ Goodwin/ Ighodaro for Zion Williamson.

** Hate the idea of giving up Brooks as he's been a culture setter for us. I'm meh on giving up O'neale and Ighodaro. Don't like giving up Goodwin either. BUT there'll be other options at backup guard for a Goodwin replacement.

A trade with us keeping all of Booker, J Green and Brooks would require it to be expanded to a 3rd team trade in a very difficult scenario sending different pieces / cap space back to us, and then other pieces along with what we send to New Orleans. ( Allen, O'neale, Richards to 3rd team and bigger contract/ s other pieces going to New Orleans for Zion).

That's just some initial premises quickly constructed so far for some examples man.

It's insane to trade a 23yo former #3 pick with potential for a guy who's perpetually injured. If I was moving him, it would be to a team that is high on Green and actually willing to move real assets for him.

I'm open to trading Brooks and Allen but we can get way more than a broken down Zion for those 2.

I understand your perspective man, I really do! And I am a fan of J Green as I'm sure you remember my posting about his production around the playoffs or right before perhaps.

But it's still a matter of subjective opinion and implied risks. Because if Zion by chance panned out here for us, you and others would have to drastically change your opinions of him. Zion if the situation worked out for us would elevate us to around thev2nd or 3rd seed, even in a stacked western conference.

And he'd be the ideal option for Booker to play off of due to how unstoppable he is going to the rim and the gravity he pulls. It'd kind of be like the Barkley trade, only obviously much more risky.

But it's important to still understand that even though we've surprised and exceeded expectations so far, Our future is still fairly limited as a low key rebuilding team. And every year Booker gets older and more prone to injury and possible value depreciation. Especially on his supermax deal.

Zion is a big swing to try and maximize Booker's remaining years with us as much as possible. And the flip side of a possible negative outcome would still yield significant cap flexibility due to his contractual clauses.

Now I still really like J Green and am intrigued to see how we might perform with a fully healthy team. But I'm also let any potential recency bias prevent me from considering such options for a potential generational talent at the pricetag of pennies on the dollar.

Especially considering our very limited situation for the coming years ( No real draft picks, and no real cap flexibility either).

I just can't be completely cool with the idea of being a slightly better than mediocre treadmilling playin team as an acceptable ceiling for our team.

The goal after all is to win, and since the front office already gave away almost all of our cap flexibility and draft picks for the next half decade, So we obviously can't properly rebuild,
as a result of those conditions, I'm all about exploring every option.

Zion is a terrible fit next to Book and vice versa. Given Book isn't a natural floor spacer, operates a lot out of the midrange and isn't the most active cutter/off-ball mover. Likewise, Zion is also a poor floor spacer, does a lot of work driving to the rim and defensively, doesn't do much to cover Book's deficiency. In the same way we didn't end up being a better team moving all these key pieces for KD (who is a far better fit next to Book than Zion might I add), I don't believe we're a better team moving key pieces for Zion. Granted, the risk is much lower because the cost is significantly lower and there are non-guarantees in Zion's contract but I just don't see a good enough basketball reasons to make this deal.

[lilfishi22]

He's more or less a fancier more skilled version of what we probably believe that we have with Oso. I'd much rather try to play him at power forward and let Brooks and Williams flank him at their respective positions defensively to maximize value if they traded for him.

And he would somewhat balance the roster more positionally. But I also wouldn't want to give up J Green for him and we likely don't have the assets the Kings would be looking for without including one of J Green, Booker or Brooks and Richards.

For my part, I see J Green as having much more long term value/ talent/ upside potential than Sabonis too.

And I'm very intrigued to actually see a larger sample size with him playing before considering a Sabonis trade were he could be a centerpiece inclusion.

Sabonis has played 28 more games in just the last 3 seasons than Zion has over his 7 year career. But you're willing to move JGreen for Zion but not Sabonis?

For two reasons really man.

1- First, Zion when/ if he plays is much more athletically dynamic, is more unstoppable in matchups and puts up better production statistically.

2- His contract is obviously cheaper, would/ should take less to get, and most importantly is unguaranteed by his contractual clauses. So even if he plays much less than desired, we could clear that salary or essentially would be playing much less for his premised 17 million or 25 million depending upon number of games played.

Overall with Zion, we'd have more options / insurance contractually and it should cost much less to acquire him ( given his situation) and what the Kings would expect for Sabonis by comparison I'd think.

Fair points about Sabonis' contract. He would be a major obstacle in creating space to retain Williams and CG. But as mentioned before, only reason I'd trade for Zion is for cap purposes.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Sabonis has played 28 more games in just the last 3 seasons than Zion has over his 7 year career. But you're willing to move JGreen for Zion but not Sabonis?

For two reasons really man.

1- First, Zion when/ if he plays is much more athletically dynamic, is more unstoppable in matchups and puts up better production statistically.

2- His contract is obviously cheaper, would/ should take less to get, and most importantly is unguaranteed by his contractual clauses. So even if he plays much less than desired, we could clear that salary or essentially would be playing much less for his premised 17 million or 25 million depending upon number of games played.

Overall with Zion, we'd have more options / insurance contractually and it should cost much less to acquire him ( given his situation) and what the Kings would expect for Sabonis by comparison I'd think.

Fair points about Sabonis' contract. He would be a major obstacle in creating space to retain Williams and CG. But as mentioned before, only reason I'd trade for Zion is for cap purposes.

I can be amenable to that perspective.