2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation

[bwgood77]

Yeah I've been harping on about getting a real physical, defensive-type point in the mold of Beverley, Smart, etc. for a while now to back up Paul. Those guys are really valuable.

Post Chris Paul however, I think we need a genuine 2nd option. And if our core guys are Booker, Mikal, and Ayton, then that 2nd option has to be at PG or PF. We'll fall flat without a real 2nd option who can get his own shot. At this point I don't expect Mikal and Ayton to become shot creators and because of that if there is a genuine star around Booker's age available I'd consider parting with one of those two guys provided the incoming star can also play some defense. Preferably we'd sign a second star though so we don't have to lose our depth. But I'd be wary in tying up so much cap room on guys who aren't offensive creators.

How many offensive creator stars do you think the other remaining playoff teams have?

[sunskerr]

Yeah I've been harping on about getting a real physical, defensive-type point in the mold of Beverley, Smart, etc. for a while now to back up Paul. Those guys are really valuable.

Post Chris Paul however, I think we need a genuine 2nd option. And if our core guys are Booker, Mikal, and Ayton, then that 2nd option has to be at PG or PF. We'll fall flat without a real 2nd option who can get his own shot. At this point I don't expect Mikal and Ayton to become shot creators and because of that if there is a genuine star around Booker's age available I'd consider parting with one of those two guys provided the incoming star can also play some defense. Preferably we'd sign a second star though so we don't have to lose our depth. But I'd be wary in tying up so much cap room on guys who aren't offensive creators.

How many offensive creator stars do you think the other remaining playoff teams have?

A **** tonne. Mavs have 1. But look at the other teams and they are at a minimum of 2 like us (Paul, Booker) but can go up to 3 or even 4.

Boston - Tatum, Brown
Miami - Butler, Adebayo, Herro, Lowry (gettin old)
Bucks - Giannis, Middleton, Jrue
Warriors - Curry, Thompson, Poole

And we'd be disrespecting Memphis to not include them here with Morant/Bane/Brooks, although those last two guys are debatable they still had their best years ever with 18 ppg and can get their own shot whilst being good defensive guards/wings. Bane especially will be interesting to watch going forward.

I think offensively we'll be in the absolute pits without Paul.

[bwgood77]

Yeah I've been harping on about getting a real physical, defensive-type point in the mold of Beverley, Smart, etc. for a while now to back up Paul. Those guys are really valuable.

Post Chris Paul however, I think we need a genuine 2nd option. And if our core guys are Booker, Mikal, and Ayton, then that 2nd option has to be at PG or PF. We'll fall flat without a real 2nd option who can get his own shot. At this point I don't expect Mikal and Ayton to become shot creators and because of that if there is a genuine star around Booker's age available I'd consider parting with one of those two guys provided the incoming star can also play some defense. Preferably we'd sign a second star though so we don't have to lose our depth. But I'd be wary in tying up so much cap room on guys who aren't offensive creators.

How many offensive creator stars do you think the other remaining playoff teams have?

A **** tonne. Mavs have 1. But look at the other teams and they are at a minimum of 2 like us (Paul, Booker) but can go up to 3 or even 4.

Boston - Tatum, Brown
Miami - Butler, Adebayo, Herro, Lowry (gettin old)
Bucks - Giannis, Middleton, Jrue
Warriors - Curry, Thompson, Poole

And we'd be disrespecting Memphis to not include them here with Morant/Bane/Brooks, although those last two guys are debatable they still had their best years ever with 18 ppg and can get their own shot whilst being good defensive guards/wings. Bane especially will be interesting to watch going forward.

I think offensively we'll be in the absolute pits without Paul.

Some of those guys I don't think much of creators, but yes, it would be able to have some more creators, though I do think Bridges and Ayton have improved in this respect and can get better with more experience. But neither are likely to be really good at it. Bridges has developed a bit of a midrange game and Ayton has the hook shot and he's made the occasional drive from around the free throw line which is usually surprising. Though those are few and far between.

Ultimately though, I don't know if I think of them as contenders post Paul, though most of the core still does have upside. I think depth is a problem too, going forward.

How about Memphis creators, particularly when Ja is out (where they have a better record)?

[thamadkant]

if Ayton was given more plays so he gets one on one inside, I dont see why he wouldnt average 22-25 ppg. He has a lot of weapons and the MAIN limiting factors to him at the moment is that he doesnt get enough shots (under 15 almost every game) and that he doesnt get the touch fouls that Davis and Embiid gets so Ayton rarely goes to the line.

But if Suns system actually made him officially a scoring option with 17-18 shots per game, he is a 20+ point scorer.

[Revived]

Read on Twitter

[TeamTragic]

Listen my beautiful brothers. I don't want to see Ayton or Monty on this team next season.

I don't give a **** if he won COTY. That doesn't mean **** just like the MVP award.

COTY is Kidd. MVP is Doncic. Period and end of **** story.

[BobbieL]

Listen my beautiful brothers. I don't want to see Ayton or Monty on this team next season.

I don't give a **** if he won COTY. That doesn't mean **** just like the MVP award.

COTY is Kidd. MVP is Doncic. Period and end of **** story.

I just don't think both will be gone no matter what Xin Varlock tweeted that his job was in jeopardy with the in game adjustments

But he might have missed Willie Green on the bench.

As for Ayton - I know he didn't get maxed last year and it seems prophetic. He just doesn't play with the fire needed

[TeamTragic]

Listen my beautiful brothers. I don't want to see Ayton or Monty on this team next season.

I don't give a **** if he won COTY. That doesn't mean **** just like the MVP award.

COTY is Kidd. MVP is Doncic. Period and end of **** story.

I just don't think both will be gone no matter what Xin Varlock tweeted that his job was in jeopardy with the in game adjustments

But he might have missed Willie Green on the bench.

As for Ayton - I know he didn't get maxed last year and it seems prophetic. He just doesn't play with the fire needed

There has to be a major change. Either Monty gets canned or we trade Ayton on draft day.

This is **** madness. We are behind the curve.

[BobbieL]

Listen my beautiful brothers. I don't want to see Ayton or Monty on this team next season.

I don't give a **** if he won COTY. That doesn't mean **** just like the MVP award.

COTY is Kidd. MVP is Doncic. Period and end of **** story.

I just don't think both will be gone no matter what Xin Varlock tweeted that his job was in jeopardy with the in game adjustments

But he might have missed Willie Green on the bench.

As for Ayton - I know he didn't get maxed last year and it seems prophetic. He just doesn't play with the fire needed

There has to be a major change. Either Monty gets canned or we trade Ayton on draft day.

This is **** madness. We are behind the curve.

Ayton is gone. I think that is a given with the internal decision to not play him by Monty. And maybe Ayton didn't want to get hurt not getting the max. But every damn time he went soft - everybody is screaming "dunk the damn ball!!"

[suns12345]

Hey, what a year. Hope everyone feels ok and remembers it's just a game we watch for enjoyment.

[BobbieL]

Hey, what a year. Hope everyone feels ok and remembers it's just a game we watch for enjoyment.

After losses like this - I do decompress, get out my frustration on message boards. So thank you all for sharing the frustration, anger and whatever

But it was a helluva season - a lot of fun. Much better than 19 win seasons.

I have said it before - I am a Chargers, padres and Suns fans. I am used to losing. So making the playoffs is so much better than not

Now I guess its time to figure out what trades we can make

CP3 is owed 43m -- I think the Suns have a chance at Damian Lillard - I really do. Ayton, Paul and ______ - hmmm

Or as BWG points out - Capela and Hunter

The hawks might want to do something; the Blazers probably want Ayton with Dame - but who knows

[TeamTragic]

Hey, what a year. Hope everyone feels ok and remembers it's just a game we watch for enjoyment.

What enjoyment? This team underperformed in every single playoff game.

No more excuses.

[lilfishi22]

The ONLY positive is that Sarver doesn't have to pay Eric Gordon in a losing effort

[bwgood77]

Read on Twitter

Didn't realize the Pacers had max cap space. If they offered Sabonis for Ayton, well now they can just sign him outright. I wonder what they'd give up. Probably Brogdon but probably not Turner or Haliburton or Hield.

Ayton is coming off a regular season in which he averaged 17.2 points and 10.2 rebounds, shot a career-high 63.4% from the field and expanded his offensive game.

According to ESPN Stats & Information research, Ayton shot 44% on field goal attempts outside the paint, the best in his career. On all jump shots, he shot 47.2% from the field on 125 attempts during the regular season. That ranked in the top 10 among all players with at least 100 jumpers this season.

He followed up a 15.8-point, 11.8-rebound playoff performance a year ago with averages of 19.3 points and 9.3 rebounds this year. He is the only player to average 15 points, 10 rebounds and shoot 65% in NBA postseason history. Ayton also joined James Worthy and Kevin McHale as the only players to have five or more career playoff games with 20 points and 80% shooting, per ESPN Stats & Information research.

The offseason now presents the question if, after another strong season, Phoenix now views Ayton as a $177 million player or perhaps $136.6 million with one less year. If it does, the top free-agent center will be in a Suns uniform for the foreseeable future.

But what happens if Phoenix uses the threat of restricted free agency and a limited market of teams with available cap space as leverage? Would the Suns tell Ayton to go out and get an offer sheet from another team, with the belief it would get matched?

ESPN is projecting four teams -- the Detroit Pistons, Indiana Pacers, Orlando Magic and San Antonio Spurs -- to each have more than $30.5 million in available cap space. A fifth, the Portland Trail Blazers, would need to waive starter Josh Hart to create a max slot.

Each of the four teams (and possibly Portland) can offer a four-year, $131.1 million contract.

Considering Phoenix is now getting a discount of $46 million (but with one less year), the likelihood is that the offer is matched. In total, 17 players have signed an offer sheet, with seven going unmatched. The latest was in 2020 with Bogdan Bogdanovic and the Sacramento Kings.

The risk for the Suns is a contract laden with an advance payment, trade bonus and fewer years. Instead of having Ayton under contract through the 2026-27 season, there would be the possibility of him becoming an unrestricted free agent in 2024 or 2025.

A sign-and-trade is also an option, but that would require the Suns to cooperate. Plus, Ayton would be subjected to the complex base year compensation rule if he were signed and traded to a team over the cap. For trade purposes, only 50% of Ayton's incoming salary for a new team applies. That means a $30.5 million salary counts as only $15.7 million in incoming salary, but the full amount still applies toward outgoing salary.

This does not mean Ayton is without leverage. The restricted tag comes with a $16.4 million qualifying offer.

The one-year offer is an insurance policy that Ayton can rely on in case negotiations drag out all summer. In the unlikely scenario that the contract is signed, Ayton would have a no-trade clause and Phoenix would likely lose him for nothing in 2023 when he becomes an unrestricted free agent.

There have been 13 former first-round selections who have signed a qualifying offer, with only former Piston Greg Monroe securing a lucrative contract with his next team. The center signed a three-year, $51.4 million contract in 2015 with the Milwaukee Bucks.

Signing the offer sheet also comes at a significant risk for Ayton when factoring in the financial exposure if an injury were to occur next season.

There is a pathway for Ayton and the Suns to reach an agreement on a five-year, $177 million contract, but that would require both sides to reach a compromise, something that did not occur last October.

Similar to the Michael Porter Jr. extension that was signed with the Denver Nuggets, the Suns could heavily incentivize the $40.3 million salary in the fifth season. Porter Jr. had $12 million in guaranteed salary, with the remaining balance coming if certain benchmarks (All-Star, All-NBA, All-Defensive, games played and winning an NBA championship) were reached in the prior seasons.

[thamadkant]

I just don't think both will be gone no matter what Xin Varlock tweeted that his job was in jeopardy with the in game adjustments

But he might have missed Willie Green on the bench.

As for Ayton - I know he didn't get maxed last year and it seems prophetic. He just doesn't play with the fire needed

There has to be a major change. Either Monty gets canned or we trade Ayton on draft day.

This is **** madness. We are behind the curve.

Ayton is gone. I think that is a given with the internal decision to not play him by Monty. And maybe Ayton didn't want to get hurt not getting the max. But every damn time he went soft - everybody is screaming "dunk the damn ball!!"

You will be disappointed then when if its Sabonis who does the baby hook shots and NOT dunking the ball instead of Ayton... except Sabonis now getting torched defensively.

The fans screaming for Ayton to dunk it simply dont get it... thats not his game. There are stats here showing he is SUPER elite with his hooks, mid range shots and soft floaters.... SUPER elite and efficient, yet fans arent happy unless he dunks it every time.

This is ridiculous thinking.

Also, Ayton without a doubt is also thinking about his health every game he plays as he is out of contract of negotiating a contract in the off season... those things linger in your head. Ayton WILL not switch his personality to that of Giannis... they are very different people. its like asking Tim Duncan to start acting like Kevin Garnett.

All I will say is Suns fans will miss Ayton, when he starts putting up 22/12 on another team and playing elite defense.

[TeamTragic]

There has to be a major change. Either Monty gets canned or we trade Ayton on draft day.

This is **** madness. We are behind the curve.

Ayton is gone. I think that is a given with the internal decision to not play him by Monty. And maybe Ayton didn't want to get hurt not getting the max. But every damn time he went soft - everybody is screaming "dunk the damn ball!!"

You will be disappointed then when if its Sabonis who does the baby hook shots and NOT dunking the ball instead of Ayton... except Sabonis now getting torched defensively.

The fans screaming for Ayton to dunk it simply dont get it... thats not his game. There are stats here showing he is SUPER elite with his hooks, mid range shots and soft floaters.... SUPER elite and efficient, yet fans arent happy unless he dunks it every time.

This is ridiculous thinking.

Also, Ayton without a doubt is also thinking about his health every game he plays as he is out of contract of negotiating a contract in the off season... those things linger in your head. Ayton WILL not switch his personality to that of Giannis... they are very different people. its like asking Tim Duncan to start acting like Kevin Garnett.

All I will say is Suns fans will miss Ayton, when he starts putting up 22/12 on another team and playing elite defense.

Yes. You are right that Ayton will put up 20/20 on a losing team. Early congrats on a bottom feeder maxing him out.

[bwgood77]

Paul scored seven of his 10 points in the fourth quarter and added four assists. He hasn’t looked right the majority of the series and ESPN’s Marc J. Spears reported postgame it has been a left quad injury bothering Paul.

https://arizonasports.com/story/3142959/suns-best-chance-at-title-in-franchise-history-ends-in-unimaginable-fashion/

Read on Twitter

[suns12345]

Paul scored seven of his 10 points in the fourth quarter and added four assists. He hasn’t looked right the majority of the series and ESPN’s Marc J. Spears reported postgame it has been a left quad injury bothering Paul.

https://arizonasports.com/story/3142959/suns-best-chance-at-title-in-franchise-history-ends-in-unimaginable-fashion/

Read on Twitter

I kinda like that our guys don't make injury excuses, but it is a bit hollow when as soon as we lose it comes out we have all these injuries - it's like we have a pre-prepared excuse in case we leave.

[suns12345]

Hey, what a year. Hope everyone feels ok and remembers it's just a game we watch for enjoyment.

What enjoyment? This team underperformed in every single playoff game.

No more excuses.

well if you don't enjoy watching the team, why watch? That's my point, i'm not making an excuse for us playing poorly. I'm saying it's just a game we are meant to watch for enjoyment - and I hope everyone is feeling ok since it didn't go the way we all wanted.

[RaisingArizona]

The ONLY positive is that Sarver doesn't have to pay Eric Gordon in a losing effort

True but Gordon might have saved us from an embarrassing 2nd round loss. Craig and Holiday sure didn't do anything for us in the playoffs.