Official Suns Free Agent/Trade/Transaction Thread

[lilfishi22]

So, the point of the article is that Phoenix "changes the balance of the Western Conference" only because they buyout Okafor so that the Clippers can pick him up? I don't see the Suns buying him out when he expires a few months after his possible return to playing.

Essentially yes.

Buy you're wrong about the buyout. Okafor isn't part of our plans and if he does return, a large chunk of his salary (or all?) hits our books. If he does come back healthy and he realises he is neither part of our future plans nor are we serious contenders, it may be in both party's interest to negotiate a buyout. We'll save a couple mil perhaps with a buyout and he can go sign onto any number of contenders who will no doubt appreciate a strong defensive presence.

[JDLAW]

So, the point of the article is that Phoenix "changes the balance of the Western Conference" only because they buyout Okafor so that the Clippers can pick him up? I don't see the Suns buying him out when he expires a few months after his possible return to playing.

Essentially yes.

Buy you're wrong about the buyout. Okafor isn't part of our plans and if he does return, a large chunk of his salary (or all?) hits our books. If he does come back healthy and he realises he is neither part of our future plans nor are we serious contenders, it may be in both party's interest to negotiate a buyout. We'll save a couple mil perhaps with a buyout and he can go sign onto any number of contenders who will no doubt appreciate a strong defensive presence.

He is on our books know for both cap and tax purposes and will remain on the books in some fashion (salary or cap hold) until he is traded or his contract expires and we waive is rights. If the Suns were to trade him, in all likelihood they should have to take back some salary in return because most teams that would be interested are above the cap. There really is no incentive to trade him unless the Suns get something back that is valuable (short and long term). They are not going to take back a bad contract just to get him off the books because he is coming off anyway at the end of the year.

There is no real incentive to waive him or buy him out. The Suns have to pay his salary regardless if you waive him and he continues to count against the cap. If he does not return from his injury and you waive him, you lose the recovery, if any, from the insurance. A buy-out is not attractive because It would be unlikely that the Suns could buy him out for much less than what is owed because. If he is disabled for the year, he cannot recover what he gives up in a buy out by signing with another team. Alternatively, if he is not disabled, and the Suns buy him out, the discount he gives the Suns is likely to be only the amount of a veterans NBA min contract, which is what he would likely sign after being bought out and waived. Hence the savings is likely to be small compared to the amount they would still have to pay and would likely be less than what they could recover from insurance.

I just do not see him going anywhere.

[McD for MVP]

Talking about last year's drat, I was wondering the other day how far Len would have fallen if we didn't take him. Probably at least to 12th to OKC, unless they liked Adams better or Boston unless they liked Olynyk better...maybe all the way to Atlanta at 16th. Here is a situation that theoretically perhaps we could have traded down, picked up another asset and still gotten the guy we wanted.

Of course it also depends on who we took instead, and how that impacted the picks after us, but ignoring that part of it, I wonder how far he would have fallen.

Sorry, I'm not trying to be rude but I had to sign up for an account here just to say that this is probably the most ridiculous garbage have ever read in my life.

[Moochthemonkey]

Sorry, I'm not trying to be rude

But you're going to be anyway? Don't bother post here if you've got nothing to add, pal.

[GetYourPHX]

Thanks for the high quality posts JDLAW. Like you said, with the insurance situation, it really makes no sense to buy out/trade Okafor unless he's salary filler in a bigger trade, which seems unlikely.

[bwgood77]

Talking about last year's drat, I was wondering the other day how far Len would have fallen if we didn't take him. Probably at least to 12th to OKC, unless they liked Adams better or Boston unless they liked Olynyk better...maybe all the way to Atlanta at 16th. Here is a situation that theoretically perhaps we could have traded down, picked up another asset and still gotten the guy we wanted.

Of course it also depends on who we took instead, and how that impacted the picks after us, but ignoring that part of it, I wonder how far he would have fallen.

Sorry, I'm not trying to be rude but I had to sign up for an account here just to say that this is probably the most ridiculous garbage have ever read in my life.

Well, I'd like to know which of the following teams you think would have drafted Len:

6. Philly via NO - Noel (in their deal with NO, trade was contingent on Noel or McLemore being there)
7. Sacramento - McLemore (with Cousins, they obviously didn't want a center)
8. Detroit - KCP (with Drummond, obviously they didn't want a center)
9. Utah - Burke (they obviously needed a pg and have Kanter)
10. Portland - McCollum (they drafted Meyers Leonard last year so unless the GM wanted to admit that it was a mistake by taking a flyer on an injured center, which is doubtful, then they would not have taken Len)
11. Philly - Michael Carter Williams - they took an injured center with their first pick, so I doubt they were going to take a second injured center when they just traded away their all star pg for him
12. OKC - Steven Adams - I mention above they could have taken Len if they liked him better than Adams
13. Boston - Kelly Olynyk - ditto sentence above

[lilfishi22]

He is on our books know for both cap and tax purposes and will remain on the books in some fashion (salary or cap hold) until he is traded or his contract expires and we waive is rights. If the Suns were to trade him, in all likelihood they should have to take back some salary in return because most teams that would be interested are above the cap. There really is no incentive to trade him unless the Suns get something back that is valuable (short and long term). They are not going to take back a bad contract just to get him off the books because he is coming off anyway at the end of the year.

There is no real incentive to waive him or buy him out. The Suns have to pay his salary regardless if you waive him and he continues to count against the cap. If he does not return from his injury and you waive him, you lose the recovery, if any, from the insurance. A buy-out is not attractive because It would be unlikely that the Suns could buy him out for much less than what is owed because. If he is disabled for the year, he cannot recover what he gives up in a buy out by signing with another team. Alternatively, if he is not disabled, and the Suns buy him out, the discount he gives the Suns is likely to be only the amount of a veterans NBA min contract, which is what he would likely sign after being bought out and waived. Hence the savings is likely to be small compared to the amount they would still have to pay and would likely be less than what they could recover from insurance.

I just do not see him going anywhere.

A trade is unlikely due to the size of his contract which is why I think a buyout is likely the only way out for Okafor if he wants to play for a contender (as alluded to by the article, I don't know how Okafor feels about playing for the Suns). The buyout will count towards the books but wouldn't we (ie Sarver) have to pay him less? I was not thinking we would likely come to an agreement for a lot less than his $15m salary but a mil or two would be better than nothing. Both parties benefit as we've seen in the past. Basically if he were to play, either we pay him the full $15m to play for us or we part ways and maybe Sarver pays him a few mil less.

It's all moot anyway if he does not return from injury or if he wants to play for us.

[lilfishi22]

Well, I'd like to know which of the following teams you think would have drafted Len:

6. Philly via NO - Noel (in their deal with NO, trade was contingent on Noel or McLemore being there)
7. Sacramento - McLemore (with Cousins, they obviously didn't want a center)
8. Detroit - KCP (with Drummond, obviously they didn't want a center)
9. Utah - Burke (they obviously needed a pg and have Kanter)
10. Portland - McCollum (they drafted Meyers Leonard last year so unless the GM wanted to admit that it was a mistake by taking a flyer on an injured center, which is doubtful, then they would not have taken Len)
11. Philly - Michael Carter Williams - they took an injured center with their first pick, so I doubt they were going to take a second injured center when they just traded away their all star pg for him
12. OKC - Steven Adams - I mention above they could have taken Len if they liked him better than Adams
13. Boston - Kelly Olynyk - ditto sentence above

How far would Anthony Bennett had fallen had Cavs not taken him with the #1?

[bwgood77]

via Raptors board:


I call BS. Keep dreamin', Raps fans.

Wouldn't that be a good deal for us?

I don't like it. We don't need Amir, Novak is useless and has 3 more years on his contract at $3.7M per year. I'd rather have cap space.

Sounds like a pretty good deal to me. Novak is usually pretty good 3 pt shooter, and we could use another shooter. Amir Johnson is a beast. We certainly wouldn't be giving up much. There is a decent chance that Minnesota pick turns into a 2nd round pick at some point.

I would be fine either way with this deal, but I'd lean towards taking it. It does probably make us better this year though, so it depends on what people's hopes are with this team this year. I think they would both be pretty solid trade assets too. They both have pretty good deals for what they provide. But again, I'd be fine either way.

[bwgood77]

That Raps trade is bogus. I hope that trade wouldn't even be considered by the Suns. Trading with Atlanta is the way to go.
Suns get Al Horford
Suns lose Emeka Okafor, Miles Plumlee, T-Wolves pick, Indy's pick.

Of course that would be the way to go if Atlanta would entertain that idea, but they won't.

[bwgood77]

Well, I'd like to know which of the following teams you think would have drafted Len:

6. Philly via NO - Noel (in their deal with NO, trade was contingent on Noel or McLemore being there)
7. Sacramento - McLemore (with Cousins, they obviously didn't want a center)
8. Detroit - KCP (with Drummond, obviously they didn't want a center)
9. Utah - Burke (they obviously needed a pg and have Kanter)
10. Portland - McCollum (they drafted Meyers Leonard last year so unless the GM wanted to admit that it was a mistake by taking a flyer on an injured center, which is doubtful, then they would not have taken Len)
11. Philly - Michael Carter Williams - they took an injured center with their first pick, so I doubt they were going to take a second injured center when they just traded away their all star pg for him
12. OKC - Steven Adams - I mention above they could have taken Len if they liked him better than Adams
13. Boston - Kelly Olynyk - ditto sentence above

How far would Anthony Bennett had fallen had Cavs not taken him with the #1?

It really depends on who they took instead. If they took Porter, then Washington.

[lilfishi22]

Horford is their only legit big man outside of Millsap. They aren't trading him for an expiring deal or low 1st rounders. Also, I want Plumlee around for the long term.

[lilfishi22]

How far would Anthony Bennett had fallen had Cavs not taken him with the #1?

It really depends on who they took instead. If they took Porter, then Washington.

Damn he was taken high. Wonder if he would make it in the top 10 or even lottery if he had stayed another year.

[thamadkant]

So, let’s go back to Phoenix, where I mentioned the Suns could change the balance of power in the Western Conference. How so, you ask?

Through one simple move.

As you might remember, Emeka Okafor was traded to Phoenix in October as a part of the Marcin Gortat trade. Okafor has been sidelined all season with a herniated disc in his neck and likely will not return to the court until January at the very earliest. He’s also in the final year of a six-year, $72 million deal and is currently making about $15 million this season. One thing is certain: he has no future with the Suns. They already have two promising young centers in Miles Plumlee and 20-year-old Alex Len.

Emeka Okafor

The Suns’ front office, meanwhile, is extremely tactful. They’ve saved millions of dollars and have picked up several assets in trades with the Pacers and Wizards since the start of the summer. If Okafor gets healthy and starts itching for a chance to play in a playoffs, as I suspect he will, the Suns will likely pounce on the opportunity to save even more money through negotiating a buy-out.

Now, of course, the Suns themselves are in the playoff race so it might be too soon to guarantee that a healthy Okafor will be bought out. There’s still a small chance his expiring deal could get traded again. Or, perhaps he will stay on and vocally lead Phoenix during the playoff stretch. More likely though, Phoenix will be negotiating a buyout with Okafor’s as soon as he gets healthy enough to play.

Consider this: Los Angeles can’t trade its first-round pick this year under the NBA’s Ted Stepien rule because they already owe next year’s pick to Boston. They’re also fully capped out on contracts and lack the expendable salaries necessary to swing a trade for a veteran defensive presence (a la Elton Brand or Zaza Pachulia). To put it kindly, their only expendable asset is Reggie Bullock, who’s not overwhelmingly valuable to begin with.

That leaves the Clippers with three options. They can stick it out with the rotation they have and hope to sign a healthy Odom by January; they can search the free agent scraps for slim pickings (Earl Barron, anyone?); or they can undersell Bullock, Willie Green and a distant future first-rounder for a backup big making under $5 million.

To me, none of those options sound too great.

This is where the Suns’ decision with Okafor becomes so important for the Clippers.

http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2013/12/07 ... nt-1565676

My 2 cents

McD traded for Okafor…
- Because Gortat was not part of the future plans and he did really like Plumlee and eventually Len to be the rotation centers.
- He wanted to 1 big salary that is expiring, in hopes that he could trade for one disgruntled star by All-Star break. Initially I believe Aldridge was on that list but Blazers obviously playing well.
Love, Horford are also in that list he hopes he can trade for. Trade deadline will be interesting I think… especially on how Wolves are going as well as Hawks.


Buying out Okafor is less likely than the above situation, althought if Suns cannot find a trade by deadline, there may be a negotiation. But at worst case, Suns keep him on the bench and give him minutes as backup center/PF.
Would love him as a veteran defensive stopper eventually if the Suns keep him… and make a run for Lebron 

Trade: Frye + Morris Brothers for Amir Johnson + Novak


C: Plumlee/Len/Okafor
PF: Amir Johnson/Okafor/Frye
SF: Lebron James / Tucker / Novak
SG: Green/Goodwin/Tucker
PG: Bledsoe/Dragic/Smith


That’s a formidable team!!! hehe

[lilfishi22]

Amir is a better player but I've always liked Thomas Robinson's defense and rebounding. If we were to trade for him, I think the synergy between the Morri and Robinson would be through the roof.

[carey]

http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2013/12/07 ... nt-1565676

Sooo..the balance of power in the West depends on a guy not healthy enough to play. Got it.

[RunDogGun]

Why would we trade Frye and Morri for Amir and Novak, when we are getting so much more out of our players than what the Rap players are producing.

After looking at the stats and contracts, I have to agree with Gaspar, and your deal is even worse than the Rap rumor.

[Moochthemonkey]

So, let’s go back to Phoenix, where I mentioned the Suns could change the balance of power in the Western Conference. How so, you ask?

Through one simple move.

As you might remember, Emeka Okafor was traded to Phoenix in October as a part of the Marcin Gortat trade. Okafor has been sidelined all season with a herniated disc in his neck and likely will not return to the court until January at the very earliest. He’s also in the final year of a six-year, $72 million deal and is currently making about $15 million this season. One thing is certain: he has no future with the Suns. They already have two promising young centers in Miles Plumlee and 20-year-old Alex Len.

Emeka Okafor

The Suns’ front office, meanwhile, is extremely tactful. They’ve saved millions of dollars and have picked up several assets in trades with the Pacers and Wizards since the start of the summer. If Okafor gets healthy and starts itching for a chance to play in a playoffs, as I suspect he will, the Suns will likely pounce on the opportunity to save even more money through negotiating a buy-out.

Now, of course, the Suns themselves are in the playoff race so it might be too soon to guarantee that a healthy Okafor will be bought out. There’s still a small chance his expiring deal could get traded again. Or, perhaps he will stay on and vocally lead Phoenix during the playoff stretch. More likely though, Phoenix will be negotiating a buyout with Okafor’s as soon as he gets healthy enough to play.

Consider this: Los Angeles can’t trade its first-round pick this year under the NBA’s Ted Stepien rule because they already owe next year’s pick to Boston. They’re also fully capped out on contracts and lack the expendable salaries necessary to swing a trade for a veteran defensive presence (a la Elton Brand or Zaza Pachulia). To put it kindly, their only expendable asset is Reggie Bullock, who’s not overwhelmingly valuable to begin with.

That leaves the Clippers with three options. They can stick it out with the rotation they have and hope to sign a healthy Odom by January; they can search the free agent scraps for slim pickings (Earl Barron, anyone?); or they can undersell Bullock, Willie Green and a distant future first-rounder for a backup big making under $5 million.

To me, none of those options sound too great.

This is where the Suns’ decision with Okafor becomes so important for the Clippers.

http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2013/12/07 ... nt-1565676

My 2 cents

McD traded for Okafor…
- Because Gortat was not part of the future plans and he did really like Plumlee and eventually Len to be the rotation centers.
- He wanted to 1 big salary that is expiring, in hopes that he could trade for one disgruntled star by All-Star break. Initially I believe Aldridge was on that list but Blazers obviously playing well.
Love, Horford are also in that list he hopes he can trade for. Trade deadline will be interesting I think… especially on how Wolves are going as well as Hawks.


Buying out Okafor is less likely than the above situation, althought if Suns cannot find a trade by deadline, there may be a negotiation. But at worst case, Suns keep him on the bench and give him minutes as backup center/PF.
Would love him as a veteran defensive stopper eventually if the Suns keep him… and make a run for Lebron 

Trade: Frye + Morris Brothers for Amir Johnson + Novak


C: Plumlee/Len/Okafor
PF: Amir Johnson/Okafor/Frye
SF: Lebron James / Tucker / Novak
SG: Green/Goodwin/Tucker
PG: Bledsoe/Dragic/Smith


That’s a formidable team!!! hehe

I know you like to sell players while their values are high, but I think you're overvaluing the Minnesota draft picks if you're willing to trade both Morris brothers for Amir...especially if he doesn't resign here.

and Lebron James is almost 29, too old to be a cornerstone of a franchise sarcasm

[JDLAW]

He is on our books know for both cap and tax purposes and will remain on the books in some fashion (salary or cap hold) until he is traded or his contract expires and we waive is rights. If the Suns were to trade him, in all likelihood they should have to take back some salary in return because most teams that would be interested are above the cap. There really is no incentive to trade him unless the Suns get something back that is valuable (short and long term). They are not going to take back a bad contract just to get him off the books because he is coming off anyway at the end of the year.

There is no real incentive to waive him or buy him out. The Suns have to pay his salary regardless if you waive him and he continues to count against the cap. If he does not return from his injury and you waive him, you lose the recovery, if any, from the insurance. A buy-out is not attractive because It would be unlikely that the Suns could buy him out for much less than what is owed because. If he is disabled for the year, he cannot recover what he gives up in a buy out by signing with another team. Alternatively, if he is not disabled, and the Suns buy him out, the discount he gives the Suns is likely to be only the amount of a veterans NBA min contract, which is what he would likely sign after being bought out and waived. Hence the savings is likely to be small compared to the amount they would still have to pay and would likely be less than what they could recover from insurance.

I just do not see him going anywhere.

A trade is unlikely due to the size of his contract which is why I think a buyout is likely the only way out for Okafor if he wants to play for a contender (as alluded to by the article, I don't know how Okafor feels about playing for the Suns). The buyout will count towards the books but wouldn't we (ie Sarver) have to pay him less? I was not thinking we would likely come to an agreement for a lot less than his $15m salary but a mil or two would be better than nothing. Both parties benefit as we've seen in the past. Basically if he were to play, either we pay him the full $15m to play for us or we part ways and maybe Sarver pays him a few mil less.

It's all moot anyway if he does not return from injury or if he wants to play for us.

I do not think a buyout is likely either, but not saying it could not happen, just seems unlikely for a variety of reasons - not the least of which is that they probably do not want to pay him to play for another team The savings from a buy-out is likely to be de minims. There is really no reason for him to give up $$. If he is cleared to play at all and it is late in the season, I would guess he will not force his way out because a very rusty Okafor may damage his free agent value in the off season. My guess is that he and the Suns will keep their options open and re-evaluate the situation in February, which appears to be the earliest he would be cleared, if at all.

I still maintain he is more likely than not to be on the roster through the season, but will not play this year.

[JDLAW]

My 2 cents

McD traded for Okafor…
- Because Gortat was not part of the future plans and he did really like Plumlee and eventually Len to be the rotation centers.
- He wanted to 1 big salary that is expiring, in hopes that he could trade for one disgruntled star by All-Star break. Initially I believe Aldridge was on that list but Blazers obviously playing well.
Love, Horford are also in that list he hopes he can trade for. Trade deadline will be interesting I think… especially on how Wolves are going as well as Hawks.


Buying out Okafor is less likely than the above situation, althought if Suns cannot find a trade by deadline, there may be a negotiation. But at worst case, Suns keep him on the bench and give him minutes as backup center/PF.
Would love him as a veteran defensive stopper eventually if the Suns keep him… and make a run for Lebron 

Trade: Frye + Morris Brothers for Amir Johnson + Novak


C: Plumlee/Len/Okafor
PF: Amir Johnson/Okafor/Frye
SF: Lebron James / Tucker / Novak
SG: Green/Goodwin/Tucker
PG: Bledsoe/Dragic/Smith


That’s a formidable team!!! hehe
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1UPZ
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Posts: 5174
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- See more at: viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1275883&p=37819767#p37819767

This is a surreal combination of a horrible trade and an unreal fantasy. I am so glad it was valued at 2 cents.