The TJ Warren Thread!

[lilfishi22]

That's a lineup I'd love to see

[LukasBMW]

TJ may just be quoting rap songs, but the lyrics tell you how he's feeling. Between the hype around Booker and Jackson AND even Chriss/Bender, I bet he can't help but feel a bit left out.

Luckily it's not just us...looks like he's off the radar of most NBA writers too.

I'd love to lock him up with a reasonable extension now because I think he could blow up this year. Yet, even if we have to max him, it's probably better for flexibility to sign him next year and maybe make a few other signings as well.

I believe in TJ. I still think he could become our best player. He's shown great flashes.

[sunsbg]

TJ may just be quoting rap songs, but the lyrics tell you how he's feeling. Between the hype around Booker and Jackson AND even Chriss/Bender, I bet he can't help but feel a bit left out.

Luckily it's not just us...looks like he's off the radar of most NBA writers too.

I'd love to lock him up with a reasonable extension now because I think he could blow up this year. Yet, even if we have to max him, it's probably better for flexibility to sign him next year and maybe make a few other signings as well.

I believe in TJ. I still think he could become our best player. He's shown great flashes.

He doesn't have the personality of the best player on a team. If he is not clearly outplaying JJ during the training camp/preseason his days as a starter at SF are numbered. I like him as 6th man, but in case some team offers him a starter's money than you have to trade him.

[jcsunsfan]

TJ may just be quoting rap songs, but the lyrics tell you how he's feeling. Between the hype around Booker and Jackson AND even Chriss/Bender, I bet he can't help but feel a bit left out.

Luckily it's not just us...looks like he's off the radar of most NBA writers too.

I'd love to lock him up with a reasonable extension now because I think he could blow up this year. Yet, even if we have to max him, it's probably better for flexibility to sign him next year and maybe make a few other signings as well.

I believe in TJ. I still think he could become our best player. He's shown great flashes.

He doesn't have the personality of the best player on a team. If he is not clearly outplaying JJ during the training camp/preseason his days as a starter at SF are numbered. I like him as 6th man, but in case some team offers him a starter's money than you have to trade him.

This is the problem with too many young players. It is hard to keep them all.

[sunsbg]

TJ may just be quoting rap songs, but the lyrics tell you how he's feeling. Between the hype around Booker and Jackson AND even Chriss/Bender, I bet he can't help but feel a bit left out.

Luckily it's not just us...looks like he's off the radar of most NBA writers too.

I'd love to lock him up with a reasonable extension now because I think he could blow up this year. Yet, even if we have to max him, it's probably better for flexibility to sign him next year and maybe make a few other signings as well.

I believe in TJ. I still think he could become our best player. He's shown great flashes.

He doesn't have the personality of the best player on a team. If he is not clearly outplaying JJ during the training camp/preseason his days as a starter at SF are numbered. I like him as 6th man, but in case some team offers him a starter's money than you have to trade him.

This is the problem with too many young players. It is hard to keep them all.

Well, it depends on the price. Not all of them will become stars. After all a team needs 3-4 star/very good players(latest trend set by GSW, CLE, HOU, etc) and fill out the roster with players happy to play for the team.

[Revived]

Thing is that in today's NBA, it's impossible to be a starter on the wing if you can't shoot 3s or defend at a high level. Most of the time, both is required.

Warren isn't capable of doing either as of now but he excels at basically everything else.

It's quite a conundrum.

[jcsunsfan]

Thing is that in today's NBA, it's impossible to be a starter on the wing if you can't shoot 3s or defend at a high level. Most of the time, both is required.

Warren isn't capable of doing either as of now but he excels at basically everything else.

It's quite a conundrum.

He does not excel at rebounding, 3 point shooting, ball handling, defending, or passing. He has an excellent mid-range and close game.

Competition is what forces excellence. Step up TJ.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Thing is that in today's NBA, it's impossible to be a starter on the wing if you can't shoot 3s or defend at a high level. Most of the time, both is required.

Warren isn't capable of doing either as of now but he excels at basically everything else.

It's quite a conundrum.

He does not excel at rebounding, 3 point shooting, ball handling, defending, or passing. He has an excellent mid-range and close game.

Competition is what forces excellence. Step up TJ.

I think he showed enough at the end of last season to be considered a better-than-average rebounder at the SF position. I don't think his defense is nearly as bad as has been alleged. He may not be good at creating for others, but as a scorer, he's one of the league's best at avoiding turnovers - an often overlooked plus.

I think he should start next to Jackson at the 4. From where I sit this is obvious and must be done. Accordingly, I won't debate JJ vs. TJ, because the question is JJ vs. TJ vs. Chriss vs. Bender. And the answer is JJ and TJ at the forward spots.

[Saberestar]

I am not really concerned about who starts at SF because I think that both (Warren and Jackson) are gonna play A LOT. I mean A LOT.

Who is gonna play big time minutes for us? Reed? Dudley? DJJ? Williams?
Bender and Chriss have potential, but they are raw. They are not gonna be consistent all season long.

We don't have depth so Watson is gonna be forced to play both TJ and JJ between 30 and 35 mpg.
They are gonna see minutes at SG, SF and PF.

[lilfishi22]

TJ may just be quoting rap songs, but the lyrics tell you how he's feeling. Between the hype around Booker and Jackson AND even Chriss/Bender, I bet he can't help but feel a bit left out.

Luckily it's not just us...looks like he's off the radar of most NBA writers too.

I'd love to lock him up with a reasonable extension now because I think he could blow up this year. Yet, even if we have to max him, it's probably better for flexibility to sign him next year and maybe make a few other signings as well.

I believe in TJ. I still think he could become our best player. He's shown great flashes.

He doesn't have the personality of the best player on a team. If he is not clearly outplaying JJ during the training camp/preseason his days as a starter at SF are numbered. I like him as 6th man, but in case some team offers him a starter's money than you have to trade him.

Wow...this is one of the most mind-blowing assessment of TJ I've seen on this board in a while.

We're talking about a guy who average almost 18/8 on .56FG% after ASW. He's a guy who's probably the 3rd best and likely 1st or 2nd most efficient scorer on the team. His defense has improved to the point where he's at the very worst average at his position and he's more motivated than ever. I can't believe just because he doesn't have the personality he can't be the best player on the team. I can't believe he has to somehow CLEARLY outplay JJ, a rookie without a single NBA minute, in camp or he'll lose his starting role. An NBA rookie who, let's not forget, also has his own weaknesses. And to say anyone offering fair money for a starting calibre player can have him for nothing, is just mind-boggling.

[sunsbg]

TJ may just be quoting rap songs, but the lyrics tell you how he's feeling. Between the hype around Booker and Jackson AND even Chriss/Bender, I bet he can't help but feel a bit left out.

Luckily it's not just us...looks like he's off the radar of most NBA writers too.

I'd love to lock him up with a reasonable extension now because I think he could blow up this year. Yet, even if we have to max him, it's probably better for flexibility to sign him next year and maybe make a few other signings as well.

I believe in TJ. I still think he could become our best player. He's shown great flashes.

He doesn't have the personality of the best player on a team. If he is not clearly outplaying JJ during the training camp/preseason his days as a starter at SF are numbered. I like him as 6th man, but in case some team offers him a starter's money than you have to trade him.

Wow...this is one of the most mind-blowing assessment of TJ I've seen on this board in a while.

We're talking about a guy who average almost 18/8 on .56FG% after ASW. He's a guy who's probably the 3rd best and likely 1st or 2nd most efficient scorer on the team. His defense has improved to the point where he's at the very worst average at his position and he's more motivated than ever. I can't believe just because he doesn't have the personality he can't be the best player on the team. I can't believe he has to somehow CLEARLY outplay JJ, a rookie without a single NBA minute, in camp or he'll lose his starting role. An NBA rookie who, let's not forget, also has his own weaknesses. And to say anyone offering fair money for a starting calibre player can have him for nothing, is just mind-boggling.

It's definitely mind-boggling defending your arguments by putting words in someone's mouth. Where did I say the bolded part ?

So how long do you think TJ can hold the SF position if JJ is putting the same numbers, a player the organization/most fans are already seeing as the face of the team for the future ? Personally I don't see it happening from the start, but I would be surprised if they don't try to move JJ into the starting lineup at some point during the season, and if he keeps playing as in SL and improving, starting from day one next season.

[Damkac]

If Suns wants JJ to start then Chriss should go to the bench not Warren. Yes, JJ and TJ may have problems defending big PF but so would Chriss. Both are better rebounders than Chriss.

[sunsbg]

Sure, give it a try. It's now the time to experiment. Actually it's the most logical thing to do with the way Chriss has looked in the SL.

[lilfishi22]

He doesn't have the personality of the best player on a team. If he is not clearly outplaying JJ during the training camp/preseason his days as a starter at SF are numbered. I like him as 6th man, but in case some team offers him a starter's money than you have to trade him.

Wow...this is one of the most mind-blowing assessment of TJ I've seen on this board in a while.

We're talking about a guy who average almost 18/8 on .56FG% after ASW. He's a guy who's probably the 3rd best and likely 1st or 2nd most efficient scorer on the team. His defense has improved to the point where he's at the very worst average at his position and he's more motivated than ever. I can't believe just because he doesn't have the personality he can't be the best player on the team. I can't believe he has to somehow CLEARLY outplay JJ, a rookie without a single NBA minute, in camp or he'll lose his starting role. An NBA rookie who, let's not forget, also has his own weaknesses. And to say anyone offering fair money for a starting calibre player can have him for nothing, is just mind-boggling.

It's definitely mind-boggling defending your arguments by putting words in someone's mouth. Where did I say the bolded part ?

So how long do you think TJ can hold the SF position if JJ is putting the same numbers, a player the organization/most fans are already seeing as the face of the team for the future ? Personally I don't see it happening from the start, but I would be surprised if they don't try to move JJ into the starting lineup at some point during the season, and if he keeps playing as in SL and improving, starting from day one next season.

You will essentially be trading TJ for nothing. The S&T market is pathetic. It's nowhere near what it was like in the previous CBA where there were real benefits to doing a S&T. But if someone offers him a deal you wouldn't even entertain matching any starter money offers?

I just don't understand why you have so little confidence in TJ yet seem to think JJ who didn't put up star level stats in SL, is ready to take a starting role before the end of the season. TJ has been at it for 3 seasons and has been proven he's an efficient scorer, adequate defender and plays well with our players. The guy is exactly what we hoped he would be.

This is kind of the issue we have with this whole tank, draft and hope cycle we appear to be in. TJ had a slow start but has been putting up starter stats but you're ready to see him off because I guess he doesn't have star potential? We've got a guy we drafted at #14 who by all measures is producing more than his draft position had anticipated. That's the kind of guy you retain.

[bwgood77]

Wow...this is one of the most mind-blowing assessment of TJ I've seen on this board in a while.

We're talking about a guy who average almost 18/8 on .56FG% after ASW. He's a guy who's probably the 3rd best and likely 1st or 2nd most efficient scorer on the team. His defense has improved to the point where he's at the very worst average at his position and he's more motivated than ever. I can't believe just because he doesn't have the personality he can't be the best player on the team. I can't believe he has to somehow CLEARLY outplay JJ, a rookie without a single NBA minute, in camp or he'll lose his starting role. An NBA rookie who, let's not forget, also has his own weaknesses. And to say anyone offering fair money for a starting calibre player can have him for nothing, is just mind-boggling.

It's definitely mind-boggling defending your arguments by putting words in someone's mouth. Where did I say the bolded part ?

So how long do you think TJ can hold the SF position if JJ is putting the same numbers, a player the organization/most fans are already seeing as the face of the team for the future ? Personally I don't see it happening from the start, but I would be surprised if they don't try to move JJ into the starting lineup at some point during the season, and if he keeps playing as in SL and improving, starting from day one next season.

You will essentially be trading TJ for nothing. The S&T market is pathetic. It's nowhere near what it was like in the previous CBA where there were real benefits to doing a S&T. But if someone offers him a deal you wouldn't even entertain matching any starter money offers?

I just don't understand why you have so little confidence in TJ yet seem to think JJ who didn't put up star level stats in SL, is ready to take a starting role before the end of the season. TJ has been at it for 3 seasons and has been proven he's an efficient scorer, adequate defender and plays well with our players. The guy is exactly what we hoped he would be.

This is kind of the issue we have with this whole tank, draft and hope cycle we appear to be in. TJ had a slow start but has been putting up starter stats but you're ready to see him off because I guess he doesn't have star potential? We've got a guy we drafted at #14 who by all measures is producing more than his draft position had anticipated. That's the kind of guy you retain.

I definitely think we need to pay him whatever it takes. I don't know if we will extend him (likely not), so if he plays well he will probably get a better offer and vice versa. But JJ won't get his next deal until TJ has one year left or maybe two. But prior to that Knight, Chandler and Dudley's money will come off the books (they will actually come off the books before we need to pay last year's rookies). I don't think money will be an issue unless we need it to sign some premier free agent which is unlikely. I'm not sure when the last time we had a guy has good as Warren that we drafted come up for his second contract. It's been a while. Some might say Markieff, but I prefer Warren. Before that I'm not sure...Amare? sunsbg mentioned if someone wants to pay him we need to trade him. The point is, if someone signs him to an offer sheet we can either match or let him walk. Unless a team is hell bent on getting him and wants to pay him more than we are willing to match, they are likely not going to also give up assets in a S&T...if we're not going to match anyway.

I'm not sure he will have a huge market unless he suddenly becomes a premier 3 pt shooter or something which is unlikely. Teams don't have a lot of money left. Atlanta maybe, but Budenholzer may want to spread the floor. Orlando had them on there wall with like 50 other guys...at the bottom. I feared the Nets and was hoping they signed KCP....but they are pretty stacked at the wing...especially if LeVert pans out....I don't know if they want to play RHJ at PF for long either.

It would be good to extend him because I fear he will have the kind of season Joe Johnson did and command will cost us more if we wait. He's not the type of player to get worse. His numbers are a bit deceiving this year because of his bad stretch right before and for awhile after he had the medical issue.

[DirtyDez]

Yeah I thought offering something like 4/60 might be wise before the season but he'd probably bet on himself. His max should be similar to what Dallas gave Barnes correct? 4/95?

I mean you can't give him a qtr of the salary cap unless he developed into more of a complete player like JJ did as bwgood alluded to.

FTR I thought the Suns weren't wrong in shorting JJ the max back then only if it was by 5 mil. Nothing wrong with making him prove it. The problem was giving Q-Rich the same exact deal they wouldn't give JJ. He probably envisioned his future somewhere else at that point.

[bwgood77]

Yeah I thought offering something like 4/60 might be wise before the season but he'd probably bet on himself. His max should be similar to what Dallas gave Barnes correct? 4/95?

I mean you can't give him a qtr of the salary cap unless he developed into more of a complete player like JJ did as bwgood alluded to.

FTR I thought the Suns weren't wrong in shorting JJ the max back then only if it was by 5 mil. Nothing wrong with making him prove it. The problem was giving Q-Rich the same exact deal they wouldn't give JJ. He probably envisioned his future somewhere else at that point.

I don't think TJ will get that big of deal. That cap jump when Barnes got his contract was so big, and people overpaid free agents, and expected the cap to go up again, but it didn't, or not as much as expected. I think that will happen again. I don't know what he will get, but I don't think his value his real high across the league for various reasons, but mostly because he is simply under the radar and like I said, the stats were deflated because of his time out. That alone might be a reason to start JJ, but I don't know. I think he deserves to start more than Chriss, but that floor spreading would suffer (though it would with Chriss as well). Hopefully they improve a bit on their 3 pointers, both TJ/JJ, but for that matter all the young SFs and PFs. But with Chandler, Knight and Dudley off the books before our rookies from last year hit RFA, I think we can afford to pay him what it takes.

[PackSuns]

Are we talking about the guy who clearly was our most consistent player last year?(as voted by us). I'm confused. I guess his "personality " is holding him back. He goes through this every year. First he couldn't start in HS then becomes a McD All American on a LOADED prep team. Then he couldn't start in college even when he should have. He comes in and wins ACC player of the year and dominates the ACC. Then he couldn't start on the Suns and then comes in last year and produces at a pretty high level. I am not worried about TJ's playing time this year. He does his work in the summer like he always has. Maybe he needs a feminine haircut, gain a bunch of fat, or become really outspoken and then finally he will earn some respect on this board. Are some of you blind?

[lilfishi22]

I definitely think we need to pay him whatever it takes. I don't know if we will extend him (likely not), so if he plays well he will probably get a better offer and vice versa. But JJ won't get his next deal until TJ has one year left or maybe two. But prior to that Knight, Chandler and Dudley's money will come off the books (they will actually come off the books before we need to pay last year's rookies). I don't think money will be an issue unless we need it to sign some premier free agent which is unlikely. I'm not sure when the last time we had a guy has good as Warren that we drafted come up for his second contract. It's been a while. Some might say Markieff, but I prefer Warren. Before that I'm not sure...Amare? sunsbg mentioned if someone wants to pay him we need to trade him. The point is, if someone signs him to an offer sheet we can either match or let him walk. Unless a team is hell bent on getting him and wants to pay him more than we are willing to match, they are likely not going to also give up assets in a S&T...if we're not going to match anyway.

I'm not sure he will have a huge market unless he suddenly becomes a premier 3 pt shooter or something which is unlikely. Teams don't have a lot of money left. Atlanta maybe, but Budenholzer may want to spread the floor. Orlando had them on there wall with like 50 other guys...at the bottom. I feared the Nets and was hoping they signed KCP....but they are pretty stacked at the wing...especially if LeVert pans out....I don't know if they want to play RHJ at PF for long either.

It would be good to extend him because I fear he will have the kind of season Joe Johnson did and command will cost us more if we wait. He's not the type of player to get worse. His numbers are a bit deceiving this year because of his bad stretch right before and for awhile after he had the medical issue.

We definitely should retain him. We put in the development time, money and draft pick to get him to where he is and he's producing as we expect him as a soon to be 4th yr player. How you don't retain a guy like that is beyond me. As mentioned those big money extension aren't being handed out left and right like it was an offseason or two ago. Again money isn't an issue since the cap will still be rising (at a slower rate than it was anticipated) and our big budget items (Knight, Chandler, Bledsoe) will all be off the books in the next three seasons.

If we can extend him this off-season, we 100% should. I think a potential 20/8 guy on good FG% is difficult to find, especially one that doesn't even have plays run for him or dominates the ball in any meaningful way.

[sunsbg]

Wow...this is one of the most mind-blowing assessment of TJ I've seen on this board in a while.

We're talking about a guy who average almost 18/8 on .56FG% after ASW. He's a guy who's probably the 3rd best and likely 1st or 2nd most efficient scorer on the team. His defense has improved to the point where he's at the very worst average at his position and he's more motivated than ever. I can't believe just because he doesn't have the personality he can't be the best player on the team. I can't believe he has to somehow CLEARLY outplay JJ, a rookie without a single NBA minute, in camp or he'll lose his starting role. An NBA rookie who, let's not forget, also has his own weaknesses. And to say anyone offering fair money for a starting calibre player can have him for nothing, is just mind-boggling.

It's definitely mind-boggling defending your arguments by putting words in someone's mouth. Where did I say the bolded part ?

So how long do you think TJ can hold the SF position if JJ is putting the same numbers, a player the organization/most fans are already seeing as the face of the team for the future ? Personally I don't see it happening from the start, but I would be surprised if they don't try to move JJ into the starting lineup at some point during the season, and if he keeps playing as in SL and improving, starting from day one next season.

You will essentially be trading TJ for nothing. The S&T market is pathetic. It's nowhere near what it was like in the previous CBA where there were real benefits to doing a S&T. But if someone offers him a deal you wouldn't even entertain matching any starter money offers?

I just don't understand why you have so little confidence in TJ yet seem to think JJ who didn't put up star level stats in SL, is ready to take a starting role before the end of the season. TJ has been at it for 3 seasons and has been proven he's an efficient scorer, adequate defender and plays well with our players. The guy is exactly what we hoped he would be.

This is kind of the issue we have with this whole tank, draft and hope cycle we appear to be in. TJ had a slow start but has been putting up starter stats but you're ready to see him off because I guess he doesn't have star potential? We've got a guy we drafted at #14 who by all measures is producing more than his draft position had anticipated. That's the kind of guy you retain.

Why do you keep insisting I have no confidence in Warren at all ? I said I like him as a 6th man. It's just that the Suns drafted a player I like better both skillset-wise and personality-wise at the same position, who I think they will try to promote to the fans/media sooner rather than later. It's just how things work in the business world. So either Warren moves to the bench or they try to fit them in the starting lineup.

Warren still have to prove his consistency and competitiveness after three seasons with the team, which doesn't look like an issue with JJ. You bring his 30 games after ASB stats on a bad team, but he still finished with 14ppg, 49%, so what about his other 30+ games ? Didn't Archie/Knight had a stretch of games putting good stats ? Not saying they are comparable, but stats are not everything.

I would match any fair offer, just fear some bad team like the Hawks will again overpay - Joe Johnson situation all over again.