Offseason Thread 7: A Tale Of Two Dragons

[NavLDO]

I don't see how paying $5M to Marcus, a 10/4, 38% 3 pt shooting SF is an overpay, honestly. Especially considering he is versatile enough to play both SF and PF. Heck, he's bigger than Faried, so I don't see any reason he couldn't develop/succeed as a stretch 4 for us.

Faried has been given opportunities that neither Morii brother has been given. Sure, Faried looks better, but I would certainly hope he would in that he's started 150+ more games than either Morii.

I'm calling it now, that the Morii breakout this year. Especially Kieff, but if Marcus shows improvement this season, he likely may put PJ out of a job, OR, at least becomes a 6th Man of the Year candidate. i'd love to see both Morii out together at the 4 and 5 for a spell each game. I know, not likely at all, but would love to see how they do!

[Sunsdeuce]

Marcus' improvement may come this year, his third year playing in the league, as it did with Kieff. I wouldn't totally judge him yet. If he doesn't improve, perhaps it was an overpay.

I think a big problem for Marcus was getting the minutes. I'm probably in the minority but I think he out performed tucker when given consistent minutes. I mean he already put up practically the same numbers as tucker playing 10 minutes fewer than tucker.

I think you almost have to cut Tucker's minutes if you want development and consistent numbers from Marcus and now warren. It's also a reason I hope tucker is gone within a year/year and a half.


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Lol did the cavs game from last year not point out how important tucker was last year.

I can careless if marcus is a "better scorer"
Suns have plenty of those Dragic,Thomas,Green,Bledsoe,Markieff... Maybe warren

How about the games tucker single handedly lost games, the famous play where he didn't pass to an open teammate for an easy layup. He turnovered the ball dealing a suns loss. It goes both ways. Let's be honest this is 2014, not 1995, where almost no player plays defense. In today's nba offensive players are way more important than defensive minded players. Shoot even the rules cater to offensive players.


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[Kerrsed]

In case anyone missed the Suns practice and interviews on NBATV, http://www.nba.com/ has the videos.

[Sunsdeuce]

@Suns: Preseason tips off tonight. It's #SunsVsFlamengo, presented by @CasinoArizona, at 7 p.m. on @FOXSPORTSAZ & @AZSports. http://t.co/hym5LTPzVs


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[JTrain]

Are they going to black it out on Dish Network outside AZ?

[RunDogGun]

In case anyone missed the Suns practice and interviews on NBATV, http://www.nba.com/ has the videos.

It's on right now on NBAtv.

Did Jeff just say,"Marcus you're black."?

[NTB]

Guys doesn't Bledsoe talk so unclear? I am not American or British but I can understand other guys. But Bledsoe...

[MathiasPW]

@Suns: Preseason tips off tonight. It's #SunsVsFlamengo, presented by @CasinoArizona, at 7 p.m. on @FOXSPORTSAZ & @AZSports. http://t.co/hym5LTPzVs


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Might be the first phoenix game aired with Brazilian commentators in years

[Sun Scorched]

The Faried-love on here intrigues me. I like him as a player, but he is the definition of one dimensional. Sure, he "hustles" and I love that, but outside of rebounding there isn't anything that strikes me as something he is obviously better than Markieff at.

And Markieff has a dramatically better offensive game - like, it' not close.

Both are almost identical from an advance stats perspective (OWS, DWS, WS/48).

I think Markieff is definitely on a better contract.

[King4Day]

The Faried-love on here intrigues me. I like him as a player, but he is the definition of one dimensional. Sure, he "hustles" and I love that, but outside of rebounding there isn't anything that strikes me as something he is obviously better than Markieff at.

And Markieff has a dramatically better offensive game - like, it' not close.

Both are almost identical from an advance stats perspective (OWS, DWS, WS/48).

I think Markieff is definitely on a better contract.

I think his FIBA play is what got him this payday. Probably worth 9-10mil tops.

Kieff would have gotten more money if he didn't care about playing with his brother.

[NavLDO]

The Faried-love on here intrigues me. I like him as a player, but he is the definition of one dimensional. Sure, he "hustles" and I love that, but outside of rebounding there isn't anything that strikes me as something he is obviously better than Markieff at.

And Markieff has a dramatically better offensive game - like, it' not close.

Both are almost identical from an advance stats perspective (OWS, DWS, WS/48).

I think Markieff is definitely on a better contract.

I think his FIBA play is what got him this payday. Probably worth 9-10mil tops.

Kieff would have gotten more money if he didn't care about playing with his brother.

OK, so I'm not crazy! (Well, at least not due to my thoughts on the Morii )

And I'm in no way 'dogging' on Faried. As I've already mentioned, he was a great get at the 22nd pick in the 2011 draft, I just don't see a now more than $12M per player, is all. And yes, it was definitely smart for he and his agent to get this done now while FIBA is still fresh in everyone's minds. But that said, and I realize I'm biased, but of I were to choose between:

(A) 4yr / $52M for Marcus and Kieff (or just even 4/$32M for Kieff alone) vs (B) 4yr / $50+M for Faried...

I'm choosing option (A) 10 times out of 10!

Faried is better in many ways, but that's offset by Kieff's advantages in other areas...especially for $4+ million per less.

[Moochthemonkey]

I think a big problem for Marcus was getting the minutes. I'm probably in the minority but I think he out performed tucker when given consistent minutes. I mean he already put up practically the same numbers as tucker playing 10 minutes fewer than tucker.

I think you almost have to cut Tucker's minutes if you want development and consistent numbers from Marcus and now warren. It's also a reason I hope tucker is gone within a year/year and a half.


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Lol did the cavs game from last year not point out how important tucker was last year.

I can careless if marcus is a "better scorer"
Suns have plenty of those Dragic,Thomas,Green,Bledsoe,Markieff... Maybe warren

How about the games tucker single handedly lost games, the famous play where he didn't pass to an open teammate for an easy layup. He turnovered the ball dealing a suns loss. It goes both ways. Let's be honest this is 2014, not 1995, where almost no player plays defense. In today's nba offensive players are way more important than defensive minded players. Shoot even the rules cater to offensive players.


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1. The fact that Tucker plays defense in a league where defense is more seldom these days increases his value, not the other way around

2. Not sure where he or other players "single-handedly lost games" as basketball is a team sport but yes, he is well known for his boneheaded plays including the famous "bull in a china shop" fast-break or the "whack-a-mole" offensive put back but atleast bball IQ is something that should always improve with age. As for turnovers, Lebron James averaged twice as more than Tucker, and if you compare the stats most SFs turnover the ball more than Tucker. Mook Morris only averages .1 less than Tucker too.

3. Although I like Tucker, I still would agree with your sentiments for the most part in regards to developing TJ Warren and Mook Morris as a priority...hopefully these first 3 games can be a testament to their potential defensive abilities...as it stands though, amongst the 3-5 players who could operate at SF there simply is no better option on this team than Tucker.

[Moochthemonkey]

I also am not wild about paying someone based on the hope of them becoming something they have not shown themselves to be.

Interesting, were you not in favor of giving Bledsoe 70/5 due to the premise of his potential, especially in lieu of his knee concerns? I think the Morri deal is fair considering the same, and I don't think they have been injured once in the three seasons they've played thus far (knock on wood).

[gaspar]

The Faried-love on here intrigues me. I like him as a player, but he is the definition of one dimensional. Sure, he "hustles" and I love that, but outside of rebounding there isn't anything that strikes me as something he is obviously better than Markieff at.

And Markieff has a dramatically better offensive game - like, it' not close.

Both are almost identical from an advance stats perspective (OWS, DWS, WS/48).

I think Markieff is definitely on a better contract.

I think his FIBA play is what got him this payday. Probably worth 9-10mil tops.

Kieff would have gotten more money if he didn't care about playing with his brother.

OK, so I'm not crazy! (Well, at least not due to my thoughts on the Morii )

And I'm in no way 'dogging' on Faried. As I've already mentioned, he was a great get at the 22nd pick in the 2011 draft, I just don't see a now more than $12M per player, is all. And yes, it was definitely smart for he and his agent to get this done now while FIBA is still fresh in everyone's minds. But that said, and I realize I'm biased, but of I were to choose between:

(A) 4yr / $52M for Marcus and Kieff (or just even 4/$32M for Kieff alone) vs (B) 4yr / $50+M for Faried...

I'm choosing option (A) 10 times out of 10!

Faried is better in many ways, but that's offset by Kieff's advantages in other areas...especially for $4+ million per less.

+1

IMO it's much more likely that Markieff and Marcus will "outplay" their contracts than Faried.

[bwgood77]

I don't see how paying $5M to Marcus, a 10/4, 38% 3 pt shooting SF is an overpay, honestly. Especially considering he is versatile enough to play both SF and PF. Heck, he's bigger than Faried, so I don't see any reason he couldn't develop/succeed as a stretch 4 for us.

Faried has been given opportunities that neither Morii brother has been given. Sure, Faried looks better, but I would certainly hope he would in that he's started 150+ more games than either Morii.

I'm calling it now, that the Morii breakout this year. Especially Kieff, but if Marcus shows improvement this season, he likely may put PJ out of a job, OR, at least becomes a 6th Man of the Year candidate. i'd love to see both Morii out together at the 4 and 5 for a spell each game. I know, not likely at all, but would love to see how they do!

I'm pretty sure it's likely the twins do play at 4/5 together fairly often at times this year. I think the coaches have even talked about it.

[Christine-In-AZ]

I don't see how paying $5M to Marcus, a 10/4, 38% 3 pt shooting SF is an overpay, honestly. Especially considering he is versatile enough to play both SF and PF. Heck, he's bigger than Faried, so I don't see any reason he couldn't develop/succeed as a stretch 4 for us.

Faried has been given opportunities that neither Morii brother has been given. Sure, Faried looks better, but I would certainly hope he would in that he's started 150+ more games than either Morii.

I'm calling it now, that the Morii breakout this year. Especially Kieff, but if Marcus shows improvement this season, he likely may put PJ out of a job, OR, at least becomes a 6th Man of the Year candidate. i'd love to see both Morii out together at the 4 and 5 for a spell each game. I know, not likely at all, but would love to see how they do!

I'm pretty sure it's likely the twins do play at 4/5 together fairly often at times this year. I think the coaches have even talked about it.

It's going to be a tough task already for our only true PF Kief to get 36+ minutes by avoiding foul trouble. If he's also going to play the 5 on the defensive end some of the time? Good luck ...unless it's just going to be matador defense. That slam fest will be fun to watch.

[phrazbit]

I also am not wild about paying someone based on the hope of them becoming something they have not shown themselves to be.

Interesting, were you not in favor of giving Bledsoe 70/5 due to the premise of his potential, especially in lieu of his knee concerns? I think the Morri deal is fair considering the same, and I don't think they have been injured once in the three seasons they've played thus far (knock on wood).

I've seen the signs the Bledsoe is a star on both ends of the court, and there have been a ton of guys with the same knee injury that went onto have no further issues. Those two deals are nothing alike IMO. Bledsoe has proven that he can make an enormous difference to the success of the team. On the other hand Marcus Morris has done nothing to show he is better than a replacement level player. I am not saying he is horrible, but he does not bring much to the table outside of a decent three point shot, and he is pretty bad defensively and on the glass. If Marcus were not Markieff's brother there is no way he'd get a 4 year deal... or 5 mil a year.

[Jdiddy701]

Wow Marcus might be a starter for us this season.. PJ coming off the bench tonight. Yes it's just preseason but it's worth talking about.

Unless PJ is hurt or sitting out tonight. Coro said PJ not guaranteed for starting spot.


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[phrazbit]

Just to be clear, I am not saying the Morris deal is a killer. Yes, IMO when Marcus Morris' contract is figured in we overpaid for the pairing, but not by some crazy amount. This is not like Beasley where we paid a guy who was worth less than the league minimum. I only started talking about this again because of the comparison to Faried, who I think anyone outside of the Suns board would say is a blatantly superior player. And that the twins were supposedly willing to take a discount to stay together, and its really hard to paint this as a discount.

[Zelaznyrules]

I like Tucker but I don't think we'll ever be a true contender with him starting and playing major minutes. He plays like a very good bench player, we need to get to the point where we can use him that way. With Warren, Green and maybe Marcus, hopefully his move to the bench won't be too far down the road.