The 2016 Offseason Thread

[NavLDO]

Maybe this is because I'm a fan of exactly one team in one sport, but I don't see how any other Suns fan could think PJ starts this season. Even if TJ were injured, I would think we start Bled/Knight/Booker.

My answer to this is easy - SEE LAST SEASON. PJ has been horrible going back well before last season and yet he's our incumbent started. So, despite a change in coaching, it wouldn't shock me to see the same dumb decision made again. He had no business being a starter last season and yet, he not only started he was 3rd in minutes per and led the team in total time on the court.

I don't usually talk about him often because I always end up in an argument when I do but I think he's been perhaps the worst regular starter in the NBA for 2 full seasons now. Everyone raves about his effort, I think it's overrated and overstated. On a real team he'd be the specialist brought in for 12 to 15 minutes a game and in that role, he'd be a great asset. As a starting small forward, he's an anchor.

He's not quite the worst starting SF, at least according to RPM, coming in at 24th, one of the last of the top 3rd or so to actually have a positive impact. The bottom 2/3rds were all in the negative. Check who comes in at 9th, behind some pretty darn good names. http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM/position/5

Based on that, looking at some of the players at 25, 36 and 38 you can see some overrated players.

And Tucker was one of our better RPM guys no our team. Not sure people expect RPMs to be for players on a 23-59 team...they all sucked, so pretty much why I don't take a lot of stock in that particular stat. When you lose 59 of 82 games, not many players are going to have a positive RPM. Tucker and Bledsoe are the only two I find that even had a positive overall RPM.

Did Len's RPM numbers look good? Of course not, but his looked a lot better than many other players on our team. When a team sucks as bad as ours did last year, no one is going to look good...sorry...ain't happenin'. If they did, we wouldn't have been a 23-59 team...

[bwgood77]

My answer to this is easy - SEE LAST SEASON. PJ has been horrible going back well before last season and yet he's our incumbent started. So, despite a change in coaching, it wouldn't shock me to see the same dumb decision made again. He had no business being a starter last season and yet, he not only started he was 3rd in minutes per and led the team in total time on the court.

I don't usually talk about him often because I always end up in an argument when I do but I think he's been perhaps the worst regular starter in the NBA for 2 full seasons now. Everyone raves about his effort, I think it's overrated and overstated. On a real team he'd be the specialist brought in for 12 to 15 minutes a game and in that role, he'd be a great asset. As a starting small forward, he's an anchor.

He's not quite the worst starting SF, at least according to RPM, coming in at 24th, one of the last of the top 3rd or so to actually have a positive impact. The bottom 2/3rds were all in the negative. Check who comes in at 9th, behind some pretty darn good names. http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM/position/5

Based on that, looking at some of the players at 25, 36 and 38 you can see some overrated players.

And Tucker was one of our better RPM guys no our team. Not sure people expect RPMs to be for players on a 23-59 team...they all sucked, so pretty much why I don't take a lot of stock in that particular stat. When you lose 59 of 82 games, not many players are going to have a positive RPM. Tucker and Bledsoe are the only two I find that even had a positive overall RPM.

Did Len's RPM numbers look good? Of course not, but his looked a lot better than many other players on our team. When a team sucks as bad as ours did last year, no one is going to look good...sorry...ain't happenin'. If they did, we wouldn't have been a 23-59 team...

It really doesn't matter what stats you look at. We don't have very many good players, as was mentioned by that recent "troll" here. We only had like three guys with higher than league avg PERs last year, two being Telly and Leuer.

RPM will favor guys who get more minutes (if they play well in those minutes) so a guy who plays REALLY well in spot minutes won't look as good as a guy who played pretty well in a lot of minutes. So given the fact that not a lot of our guys played a lot of minutes, they wouldn't be favored by that stat.

But 82 games has a simple stat, which starts out at 0, and those results came out close to PER.

I think we have some young potential, and Dudley is probably now truly our second best player if you are looking at offense AND defense. You could argue Booker might be our best offensive player at this point, but there are not really any advanced metrics to point that out, which is why it's not close to consensus.

By the eye test though, Booker is probably our best offensive player, though Knight, Bledsoe, Warren and Dudley are good too. We really don't have much for good defensive players though, so no matter how often people spout out 20/5/5 or ppg, or whatever, until this team gets some defense, it will be tough to make progress. That's the ONE reason Tucker still plays as much as he did. I think his energy his somewhat contagious too, though that might not be as important given the halo of positive energy radiating from Pastor Watson.

The defensive thing is why I'm probably higher on Bender than most now, because with that length, he could be a good wing and small ball defender and if he beefs up, do it on the interior, though he can already block shots. That's one of the great things about Ulis too. Size won't be as big of an issue if you can defend well, be a pest, and get a lot of steals. He won't be blocking too many shots by point guards, but few point guards do. Ulis really doesn't have any weaknesses...great defender, great ast/to ratio, good shooter.

[NavLDO]

He's not quite the worst starting SF, at least according to RPM, coming in at 24th, one of the last of the top 3rd or so to actually have a positive impact. The bottom 2/3rds were all in the negative. Check who comes in at 9th, behind some pretty darn good names. http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM/position/5

Based on that, looking at some of the players at 25, 36 and 38 you can see some overrated players.

And Tucker was one of our better RPM guys no our team. Not sure people expect RPMs to be for players on a 23-59 team...they all sucked, so pretty much why I don't take a lot of stock in that particular stat. When you lose 59 of 82 games, not many players are going to have a positive RPM. Tucker and Bledsoe are the only two I find that even had a positive overall RPM.

Did Len's RPM numbers look good? Of course not, but his looked a lot better than many other players on our team. When a team sucks as bad as ours did last year, no one is going to look good...sorry...ain't happenin'. If they did, we wouldn't have been a 23-59 team...

It really doesn't matter what stats you look at. We don't have very many good players, as was mentioned by that recent "troll" here. We only had like three guys with higher than league avg PERs last year, two being Telly and Leuer.

RPM will favor guys who get more minutes (if they play well in those minutes) so a guy who plays REALLY well in spot minutes won't look as good as a guy who played pretty well in a lot of minutes. So given the fact that not a lot of our guys played a lot of minutes, they wouldn't be favored by that stat.

But 82 games has a simple stat, which starts out at 0, and those results came out close to PER.

I think we have some young potential, and Dudley is probably now truly our second best player if you are looking at offense AND defense. You could argue Booker might be our best offensive player at this point, but there are not really any advanced metrics to point that out, which is why it's not close to consensus.

By the eye test though, Booker is probably our best offensive player, though Knight, Bledsoe, Warren and Dudley are good too. We really don't have much for good defensive players though, so no matter how often people spout out 20/5/5 or ppg, or whatever, until this team gets some defense, it will be tough to make progress. That's the ONE reason Tucker still plays as much as he did. I think his energy his somewhat contagious too, though that might not be as important given the halo of positive energy radiating from Pastor Watson.

The defensive thing is why I'm probably higher on Bender than most now, because with that length, he could be a good wing and small ball defender and if he beefs up, do it on the interior, though he can already block shots. That's one of the great things about Ulis too. Size won't be as big of an issue if you can defend well, be a pest, and get a lot of steals. He won't be blocking too many shots by point guards, but few point guards do. Ulis really doesn't have any weaknesses...great defender, great ast/to ratio, good shooter.

You mean PerGm minutes, right? Because Bledsoe was our best RPM guy on that list, I believe.

But yeah, if nothing else, Bender and Ulis will provide a nice spark on the Defensive end, and I think Warren might be better suited guarding slower, plodding PFs even if he gives up an inch or two in length/height, since his athleticism is average at best. I think Bender will actually have an easier time guarding SFs, even if he, too, will have some issues based on too much length.

If I were Watson, I think I'd put our depth chart closer to something like this:

Bledsoe/Ulis/Goodwin
Booker/Knight/Jenkins
Dudley/Tucker/Bender
Warren/Chriss/??
Len/Chandler/Williams

Ulis could be a good facilitator for Knight and the rest, Bledsoe and Booker could do some damage, with Duds shooting 3-4 3s per gm, and just because Warren is our De-Facto PF, doesn't mean he couldn't create for him self, and he showed some promise from 3, so kick outs to Warren and he, as I've mentioned, can take what the defense gives him...there's not a spot on the floor he can't be successful from on offense. And Len needs to start; we need to know by season's end if he's out C of the future or not, so let him play like he did his last 30 or so gms last season and see if he improved. He actually had a positive DRPM, it was his ORPM that was atrocious.

Anyway, main point is Warren should be at the 4, IMO...more so than Dudley. Why take Dudley's best position away from him; he didn't fair all that well last year at PF from what I've heard.

And by no means is the above Depth Chart set in stone, and guys can be flipped from bench to starter and vice versa, but those are the positions I'd assign to the players to start, and adjust from there.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Anyone notice the whiteboard behind barbosa posted on the suns Facebook page? Looks like lists of players of some sort. I tried zooming in but couldnt read it.

[rsavaj]

I mean, you're essentially saying you're not thinking about PJ/TJ.

The foot. It's a broken foot. It's July and he's running. I don't see why TJ wouldn't be ready for regular season. Given that, is there any good reason, from a basketball perspective, team perspective, or otherwise, why PJ would start over TJ?

Maybe this is because I'm a fan of exactly one team in one sport, but I don't see how any other Suns fan could think PJ starts this season. Even if TJ were injured, I would think we start Bled/Knight/Booker.

You don't see why any Suns fan would assume the starters are going to be the same as last year unless the bench players outperform their starting counterparts in training camp?

There's also the matter of Knight being a poor wing defender, and you'd want to pair him with a guy who won't hurt you on that end. That's another point for Tucker, not Warren.

Agreed - and since Knight's a chucker, you'd want to pair him more with defense and less with offense, since he's unlikely to share the ball, and you especially don't want to pair him with a guy who gets a lot of his points moving off the basketball.

Which I guess brings me to, Why do you think Knight will start, especially given Watson's repeated statements about Knight being a prototypical sixth man and JD's statements about helping Knight adjust to such a role?

I guess I just don't get why so many assume that our coaching staff will do stupid things.

We're having a bit of a semantic disagreement here. I don't have any thoughts about whether Knight will start or not; I'd love it if he could come off the bench, but I've penciled him in as the starter since as the incumbent, it's his spot to lose.

[NavLDO]

Anyone notice the whiteboard behind barbosa posted on the suns Facebook page? Looks like lists of players of some sort. I tried zooming in but couldnt read it.

Probably their Draft Big Board, but yeah, I couldn't read any of the names either, but they were definitely a list of names sorted by position.

[bwgood77]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine/status/755469821924352000[/tweet]

Was this the "historical announcment" ?

Yes, first two Suns home sellouts in years.

[Beetlejuice]

Maybe this is because I'm a fan of exactly one team in one sport, but I don't see how any other Suns fan could think PJ starts this season. Even if TJ were injured, I would think we start Bled/Knight/Booker.

My answer to this is easy - SEE LAST SEASON. PJ has been horrible going back well before last season and yet he's our incumbent started. So, despite a change in coaching, it wouldn't shock me to see the same dumb decision made again. He had no business being a starter last season and yet, he not only started he was 3rd in minutes per and led the team in total time on the court.

I don't usually talk about him often because I always end up in an argument when I do but I think he's been perhaps the worst regular starter in the NBA for 2 full seasons now. Everyone raves about his effort, I think it's overrated and overstated. On a real team he'd be the specialist brought in for 12 to 15 minutes a game and in that role, he'd be a great asset. As a starting small forward, he's an anchor.

He's not quite the worst starting SF, at least according to RPM, coming in at 24th, one of the last of the top 3rd or so to actually have a positive impact. The bottom 2/3rds were all in the negative. Check who comes in at 9th, behind some pretty darn good names. http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM/position/5

Based on that, looking at some of the players at 25, 36 and 38 you can see some overrated players.

Hmm ... DRPM and eye test for me goes somewhat hand in hand.

Overall about PJ. I`m contemplating if we would be a elite team PJ would be a real eyesore, but as it stands now he seems to elevate our squad a bit when he is in there.

TJ Warren 4th to last on Defensive RPM fits the eye test also. As it stands now cant see him improving too much tho, kind of hard to "grow faster legs on defense" .I do hope I`m wrong here.

Bookers DRPM 3rd to last (SG-s) = fits . But to my eyes he was already improving at the end of the season and i think he will be much improved this season.

Goodwin was dead last. I`m guessing u need smarts and willpower too, besides physical gifts. He i can see improving quite a bit.

[Qwigglez]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=km5MpQArAAk[/youtube]

[dremill24]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine/status/755469821924352000[/tweet]

Was this the "historical announcment" ?

Yes, first two Suns home sellouts in years.

I hope season ticket packages are discounted appropriately. I'd be pretty pissed if they weren't.

[bwgood77]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine/status/755469821924352000[/tweet]

Was this the "historical announcment" ?

Yes, first two Suns home sellouts in years.

I hope season ticket packages are discounted appropriately. I'd be pretty pissed if they weren't.

Do you have season tickets?

[NTB]

Why is playing 2 games in Mexico is so important? Is it something political? Can someone enlighten me?

[Zelaznyrules]

Why is playing 2 games in Mexico is so important? Is it something political? Can someone enlighten me?

There's probably more reasons but it's certainly a great way to build a fanbase for the teams involved and the league as a whole. I don't know that "important or historical" really applies but hey, it's marketing. And both Dallas and Phoenix have a lot of connections to Mexico.

[kennydorglas]

Anyone notice the whiteboard behind barbosa posted on the suns Facebook page? Looks like lists of players of some sort. I tried zooming in but couldnt read it.

hahaha I'm curious as hell now.
Tried everything I know (not much) but couldnt read it at all

[bwgood77]

Why is playing 2 games in Mexico is so important? Is it something political? Can someone enlighten me?

It's more of a nice thing for Mexico. And while the fans will likely come away being bigger fans of the opposing teams, for Sarver it probably makes him quite a bit of money considering we are the "home" team. But it also creates a disadvantage for our home schedule because two of our "home" games are on a neutral court. But it's a good year to do it of all years.

[NTB]

https://www.twitch.tv/a1laflare200

Archie's playing 2k16 and streaming.. New career path I guess

[bwgood77]

https://www.twitch.tv/a1laflare200

Archie's playing 2k16 and streaming.. New career path I guess

Well at least he's playing against the Gorilla and people at the park. He should have a good chance. It looks like people are trash talking him. Someone said "Where else do you play besides the park?"

[Saberestar]

Eric Bledsoe, Suns PG with Bickley & Marotta (7/20)

Bledsoe talks about the incoming rookies and his goals for the upcoming season, bonding with his teammates, playing for Earl Watson, and coming back from injury.

http://arizonasports.com/player/?a=323503

[darealjuice]

Eric Bledsoe, Suns PG with Bickley & Marotta (7/20)

Bledsoe talks about the incoming rookies and his goals for the upcoming season, bonding with his teammates, playing for Earl Watson, and coming back from injury.

http://arizonasports.com/player/?a=323503

You can definitely tell that he's not a frequent interview type of guy lol but nice to see he's putting an effort into getting out there more.

Earl Watson was also on AZSports today

[dremill24]

Yes, first two Suns home sellouts in years.

I hope season ticket packages are discounted appropriately. I'd be pretty pissed if they weren't.

Do you have season tickets?

Na..just lookin out for those that do.