2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued

[LukasBMW]

I still think a Warren trade is being explored

I doubt it. We'd be really really stupid to make a Warren trade unless he (and only he) brings a superstar back.

[WeekapaugGroove]

We really didn't have any good defensive players on the team last year outside of Shaq. Jackson's effort can look good. Dragan is more sound and usually in better position. I do agree advanced stats if you are looking at simple rankings or ratings....especially on b ref which uses box score stats a lot more than on/off type of criteria.

Of the advanced stats that don't require more in depth research like on/off, lineups, etc, or diving into Cleaning the Glass #s, DRAPM is probably the best...where Dragan ranked 325th and Jackson 367....and those were two of the better ones...Chriss was actually better than both though.

Dragan is a good team defender, switching, helping, and is good at disrupting shots. Jackson is good at getting steals and manning up...Dragan is pretty good at sticking with his guys though for his size.

Of course the expectations for Dragan were to be a utility big good at various things like shooting, passing, defending...not really star expectations...but hopefully valuable....Jackson was always expected to be a star being the #1 recruit in HS, etc, so expectations were high. He was about as disappointing as a top drafted rookie relative to expectations that I can recall for the Suns. But I do love his attitude (even though his summer league play left me wondering if he forgot what he had done to improve the last half of the season from putrid to just simply below average...because he was back to putrid). I think working with Igor he will get the best out of him though....whatever that may be.

I agree. As some know I wasn't the biggest Jackson guy but I do see some defensive potential with him. Now it should be noted at this point it's all just theorical and not something he's actually good at but dude does have the right mentality and can move his feet. He just need to learn to play basketball in general at this point. Not exactly something you like saying about a top 5 pick but it's true.

Bender has some potential but has been a huge dispointment from a shot blocking standpoint. And obviously he needs to get stronger or he won't be in the league 4 years from now.

Chriss is actually kind of intriguing defensively. If he ever got his head on straight and could consistently be in the right place he could be a good defender. One of the few things that seem to come naturally for him is blocking shots and dude has all the physical ability you would want except for massive length.

Bridges is going to be a good defender. He actually knows how to play.

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Oh yeah, I think our best starting lineup (I won't include PG because who knows) would be Booker, Bridges, Ariza and Ayton.

Bridges shoots better than the other 3s and defends better as well. Of course he is older than Jackson with more experience.

But you can't bring Jackson and Warren off the bench together either so you need to stagger them correctly...so Bridges along with Jackson or Warren could work better.

Oh yeah they should play Booker, ariza and Bridges with ayton as much as possible. It's the best way to make his life easy on O early in his career. Throw it down to him and make teams decide to either play him 1 on 1 with help at the 3 pt line or double and leave a shooter open. I hate knight but if he can hit high 30s from 3 then just camp him out with that crew and run a bunch of Booker ayton P&R.

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[lilfishi22]

I still think a Warren trade is being explored

I doubt it. We'd be really really stupid to make a Warren trade unless he (and only he) brings a superstar back.

He won't net anything close to even a starter back lol

We'd be stupid *not* to explore trades from a position we're already stacked at.

[WeekapaugGroove]

I still think a Warren trade is being explored

It's probably been explored for a month but it's kind of hard to see an obvious move. If they wanted Schroeder the deal would be done but smartly they have resisted that so far.

Had SA not traded for DD I thought that was a possible destination if they traded Leonard.

It's hard to find a good partner for Warren. Can anyone think of a team that would take him without sending a bad contact back? I'm not saying he's a bad player but he's a weird fit on most teams.

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[lilfishi22]

I still think a Warren trade is being explored

It's probably been explored for a month but it's kind of hard to see an obvious move. If they wanted Schroeder the deal would be done but smartly they have resisted that so far.

Had SA not traded for DD I thought that was a possible destination if they traded Leonard.

It's hard to find a good partner for Warren. Can anyone think of a team that would take him without sending a bad contact back? I'm not saying he's a bad player but he's a weird fit on most teams.

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There is no obvious move but it make sense to move a guy who has some value, has some ability but playing a position where we're already strong for a guy who has some value, has some ability and plays a position where we need depth. He's kind of the odd man out because I wouldn't think they'd look at moving JJ this quickly.

I'd love to see if we can somehow grab Rubio from Utah.

[bigfoot]

Six years that this the maximum that Butler has in the NBA any more, he would be 34 years old and as far being a player that draws others Stars to play with the only play that has ever been talking about playing with him is Kyrie and i wouldnt trade Harrison for Kyrie. in every other case he hasnt gotten along with other star player players. heck i think it would be more likely that Booker would want to leave then staying to play with Butler. Dont touch the core of Booker, Ayton, Jackson or Mikal.

One simple fact ... Josh Jackson's defense is overrated. He was one of the worst defenders last season on the team. In the summer league he continued the trend and had the fourth worst defensive rating on the team. Combined with his pathetic offense and shooting, he may turn into Elfrid Payton 2.0. JJ included in a trade for a legitimate star is a no brainer.

And this is why i never trust advanced stats, if you cant watch Jackson and see more defensive effort then what we see from someone like Bender or Chriss or even Booker we are not watching the same game. The fact that Jackson is the one out there talking defense with the other players on the court says more then any advance stats that i have seen.

Jackson might get steal and blocks but when I watch he sags off his man to get steals and gives up open shots. He also allows perimeter players to get by him for layups. Couple that with his poor free throw, two point, and three point shooting and he is one of the biggest net negatives on the team. He needs to focus on playing great defense first to prove he should even be on the court with the second team bench players.

[WeekapaugGroove]

I still think a Warren trade is being explored

It's probably been explored for a month but it's kind of hard to see an obvious move. If they wanted Schroeder the deal would be done but smartly they have resisted that so far.

Had SA not traded for DD I thought that was a possible destination if they traded Leonard.

It's hard to find a good partner for Warren. Can anyone think of a team that would take him without sending a bad contact back? I'm not saying he's a bad player but he's a weird fit on most teams.

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There is no obvious move but it make sense to move a guy who has some value, has some ability but playing a position where we're already strong for a guy who has some value, has some ability and plays a position where we need depth. He's kind of the odd man out because I wouldn't think they'd look at moving JJ this quickly.

I'd love to see if we can somehow grab Rubio from Utah.

In a vacuum hes a valuable player but the reality is he's only as valuable as the demand for his services. That's the problem in my eyes because I just don't see the desire to get him for other teams.

I completely agree he's redundant on this roster and it would be great if he could land them a PG or a 4.

It's a weird roster. Maybe I'm bias because I simply don't have faith in mcd. But has he ever had a roster that made sense? He collects assets like baseball cards but then acts surprised when it doesn't fit on the floor.

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[sunsfever68]

I still think a Warren trade is being explored

I doubt it. We'd be really really stupid to make a Warren trade unless he (and only he) brings a superstar back.

He won't net anything close to even a starter back lol

We'd be stupid *not* to explore trades from a position we're already stacked at.

This x1000 most of the NBA realizes Warren is a 1 trick pony that can only score and hit mid range floaters.

[sunsfever68]

If we could parlay jackson, warren, and Bender/Chriss+picks into Lillard

Lillard
Booker
Bridges
Ariza
Ayton

Bench

Okobo/Harrison
Reed
Dudley
Bender/Chriss/Peters
Chandler

That team is a playoff team and more down the road.

[lilfishi22]

One simple fact ... Josh Jackson's defense is overrated. He was one of the worst defenders last season on the team. In the summer league he continued the trend and had the fourth worst defensive rating on the team. Combined with his pathetic offense and shooting, he may turn into Elfrid Payton 2.0. JJ included in a trade for a legitimate star is a no brainer.

And this is why i never trust advanced stats, if you cant watch Jackson and see more defensive effort then what we see from someone like Bender or Chriss or even Booker we are not watching the same game. The fact that Jackson is the one out there talking defense with the other players on the court says more then any advance stats that i have seen.

Jackson might get steal and blocks but when I watch he sags off his man to get steals and gives up open shots. He also allows perimeter players to get by him for layups. Couple that with his poor free throw, two point, and three point shooting and he is one of the biggest net negatives on the team. He needs to focus on playing great defense first to prove he should even be on the court with the second team bench players.

When he's focused on playing D rather than trying to play hero ball like he did at SL, I think he's an above average defender. Unfortunately I think our team this past year severely lacked offensive options who can create their own shot and that's where JJ thought he could fill a gap which led to his his scoring but horrid efficiency towards the end of the season. When he's asked to defend the other team's best perimeter player, I think he gets focused and plays solid defense. Of course, between those handful of defense focused games and the rest of the games where every Sun looks lost defensively, it's hard to look good overall.

[lilfishi22]

It's probably been explored for a month but it's kind of hard to see an obvious move. If they wanted Schroeder the deal would be done but smartly they have resisted that so far.

Had SA not traded for DD I thought that was a possible destination if they traded Leonard.

It's hard to find a good partner for Warren. Can anyone think of a team that would take him without sending a bad contact back? I'm not saying he's a bad player but he's a weird fit on most teams.

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There is no obvious move but it make sense to move a guy who has some value, has some ability but playing a position where we're already strong for a guy who has some value, has some ability and plays a position where we need depth. He's kind of the odd man out because I wouldn't think they'd look at moving JJ this quickly.

I'd love to see if we can somehow grab Rubio from Utah.

In a vacuum hes a valuable player but the reality is he's only as valuable as the demand for his services. That's the problem in my eyes because I just don't see the desire to get him for other teams.

I completely agree he's redundant on this roster and it would be great if he could land them a PG or a 4.

It's a weird roster. Maybe I'm bias because I simply don't have faith in mcd. But has he ever had a roster that made sense? He collects assets like baseball cards but then acts surprised when it doesn't fit on the floor.

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I'm with you on the lack of faith in McD. He's lost me as a fan for years now and it seems like it's been a long time since he's made a move that I overwhelmingly liked. His asset collecting rather than team building hasn't really yielded a a strong complementary core of player but rather just a group of mismatched talent. The best way to fix it is to make a trade becaues it's hard to expect a guy like JJ/TJ to suddenly have a reliable 3PT shot or for Knight/Okobo/Shaq to suddenly become an elite passer or even for Bender/Chriss to just suddenly 'get it'.

I supported the TJ deal at the time and I still don't think it's necessarily a bad deal but I just don't think the value is there anymore unless he adds a halfway decent 3PT shot, is able to create his own shot consistently and/or start defending at a high level. It's hard to see a team want him unless they just want to move on from a player they aren't in love with anymore. Unfortunately, Schroeder makes some sense there but I'd rather just keep TJ

[jredsaz]

Gaspar?

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?s=19

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[WeekapaugGroove]

There is no obvious move but it make sense to move a guy who has some value, has some ability but playing a position where we're already strong for a guy who has some value, has some ability and plays a position where we need depth. He's kind of the odd man out because I wouldn't think they'd look at moving JJ this quickly.

I'd love to see if we can somehow grab Rubio from Utah.

In a vacuum hes a valuable player but the reality is he's only as valuable as the demand for his services. That's the problem in my eyes because I just don't see the desire to get him for other teams.

I completely agree he's redundant on this roster and it would be great if he could land them a PG or a 4.

It's a weird roster. Maybe I'm bias because I simply don't have faith in mcd. But has he ever had a roster that made sense? He collects assets like baseball cards but then acts surprised when it doesn't fit on the floor.

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I'm with you on the lack of faith in McD. He's lost me as a fan for years now and it seems like it's been a long time since he's made a move that I overwhelmingly liked. His asset collecting rather than team building hasn't really yielded a a strong complementary core of player but rather just a group of mismatched talent. The best way to fix it is to make a trade becaues it's hard to expect a guy like JJ/TJ to suddenly have a reliable 3PT shot or for Knight/Okobo/Shaq to suddenly become an elite passer or even for Bender/Chriss to just suddenly 'get it'.

I supported the TJ deal at the time and I still don't think it's necessarily a bad deal but I just don't think the value is there anymore unless he adds a halfway decent 3PT shot, is able to create his own shot consistently and/or start defending at a high level. It's hard to see a team want him unless they just want to move on from a player they aren't in love with anymore. Unfortunately, Schroeder makes some sense there but I'd rather just keep TJ

I wouldn't be upset with a TJ trade but at this point Im in the camp they might as well keep him and see if he can play a bunch of 4. If he put on a little weight and if ayton is the rebounding monster he better be as the 1st pick then he could cover for TJ. And for **** sake he should be able to learn to hit a corner 3, plenty of horrid shooters have so he just needs to be willing and able to shoot that shot. That cures a bunch of his ills because you can just let him sit there when you don't run some iso with him. It can work but TJ needs to buy in. Him and Booker also need to be vet leaders at this point, they have graduated from dumb young players by virtue of their contacts and need to earn it.

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[jcsunsfan]

I doubt it. We'd be really really stupid to make a Warren trade unless he (and only he) brings a superstar back.

He won't net anything close to even a starter back lol

We'd be stupid *not* to explore trades from a position we're already stacked at.

This x1000 most of the NBA realizes Warren is a 1 trick pony that can only score and hit mid range floaters.

There is overvaluing our own players, but there is undervaluing them as well. I see both here.

[lilfishi22]

If we could parlay jackson, warren, and Bender/Chriss+picks into Lillard

Lillard
Booker
Bridges
Ariza
Ayton

Bench

Okobo/Harrison
Reed
Dudley
Bender/Chriss/Peters
Chandler

That team is a playoff team and more down the road.

Feel like a guy coming off an All-NBA 1st team selection would cost more than that JJ+ junk

[jcsunsfan]

Jimmy Butler is not happy in Minny. He will be a free agent next year, and most importantly, he thinks he is a point guard.

Anyone interested? He actually is not a horrible pg.

[SideSwipe]

I'm very interested in Jimmy Butler, just not sure as a PG. It would depend on the cost, but I'm very interested in JB the player, and his fit with our team. It would mean Jackson and other assets going out, though, since him coming here would mean serious players only. I'm not sure Jackson is that player yet, and he has great value. Knight/Booker/Butler/Bender/Ayton works well. Knight would need to be passing more than shooting, though.

[Damkac]

Tj could average 30 ppg and everyone would still say he is s#it while Jackson could play like the worst player in the history and everyone would still love him
Oh but TJ can't shoot! Right, how can we play him instead of Josh "3rd splash bro" Jackson?

[Frank Lee]

Some of you need to get a grip… And realize that not all of these youngsters are going to pan out. Maybe 30% of the top 40 rooks actually show something worthwhile. Half of them won’t be on the same team that drafted them come their second deal. We’ve already kicked one top 10 pick down the road, and Teeing up two others. The most recent hopefuls, Jackson, Bridges, and Ayton, have been dubbed future all stars and part of some worldbeating core.... odds say something different

Facts are after a 5 yr rebuild, all we have to show is a ‘paid like a superstar but not yet plays like a superstar’ kid and a solid utility player. Toss in a handful of ‘youngries’ trying to get a paycheck and some happy pine riding vets cashing theirs and wallah.... there is your 32 win team.

I wouldn’t boohoo trading anybody off this team

[Saberestar]

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Too much money for a 15 mpg guy who is around 30 years old.

But the GM is Divac, so not surprise here.