Shocked Beal isn’t #1 but I guess the list is about “overrated” and not as much “overpaid”. Bit surprised Booker didn’t get any votes.
My guess, the Suns aren't good enough for people to think about their players and Beal is the poster child for over-paid and terrible contracts
Granted, if and when Booker signs that extension -- in a couple years, it will be DBooker
I am going to say it again - -you know Ishbia wants to keep Booker - fine. But extending him this year would be for me, one if not two years early At least SEE what team you can put around him. Give it a year - you will know in a year if the team is on the right track
If Booker is definitely staying and FO are just not propping his value and generally just being dumb...
Then the Zion rumors are more than rumors and will be the way to go. It would be a 3 way with Rockets. To me Ishiba doesn't care about draft picks, which is sad.
Shocked Beal isn’t #1 but I guess the list is about “overrated” and not as much “overpaid”. Bit surprised Booker didn’t get any votes.
My guess, the Suns aren't good enough for people to think about their players and Beal is the poster child for over-paid and terrible contracts
Granted, if and when Booker signs that extension -- in a couple years, it will be DBooker
I am going to say it again - -you know Ishbia wants to keep Booker - fine. But extending him this year would be for me, one if not two years early At least SEE what team you can put around him. Give it a year - you will know in a year if the team is on the right track
The problem with Beal is he’s the exact same player as Booker, asked to play third fiddle to KD and Booker, and is very injury prone. That’s a perfect recipe to be “overrated”. This roster Ishbia built is cause for Beals downfall all the while Ishbia kisses Bookers rear end.
I challenge anyone on this board to name one thing Booker excels at other than shooting open mid range shots? Again key word “excels”. Ishbia blind love for Booker is just another reason this team will never succeed.
Extending Booker while he still has two more years on his current deal is how foolish management works. Extending a player who didn’t make the all-star team to make them the highest player in the league is what a clown does!
I am such a lucky NBA fan. 8647 My favorite team went from the most greedy and racist owner to the most ego driven dumbass owner in all of sports fdt.
Only a fan of Arizona teams! Cardinals Dbacks Suns
Ghost of Kleine wrote:And in getting the 25 1st and 27' 1st, we can set ourselves up via the draft and get back on track by 2028. But even apart from the picks, we'd get a roster of:
Booker/ D Brooks/ Dunn/ Smith Jr/ Richards. Sheppard / Allen/ Whitmore/ Oso / Landale. Gillespie / Trent Jr / Draft / Bol Bol / Draft.
I'd watch more of their games, but this roster sucks. Booker at point and Richards at center = *fart noise*. Outside of Booker, there's no Top 100 NBA player on the roster, and maybe 5 in the top 200 on the whole squad.
I applaud you for spotting possibilities despite our limited means, but I see very little difference in medium-term outcome between a scenario in which we get good players or no players back from Houston for KD. "Cap flexibility" is cool, but we're too far beyond the salary cap to envision a realistic scenario in which we sign a major free agent.
The only thing I can see that might matter to our future is the draft picks, so I'll take whatever deal Houston would accept, so long as our picks come back.
Ghost of Kleine wrote: Ideally, we'd take back D Brooks/ Smith jr/ Sheppard/ Landale/ Whitmore/ PHX 25' 1st/ PHX 27' 1st.
That would be great, I agree. But what if the Rockets say we could have EITHER the '29 OR Jabari Smith and Cam Whitmore?
One way or another, I'm saying yes to any KD deal that would return all three of our picks regardless what contracts come back, and pretty much any deal that gets us at least our next two picks back. Perhaps they'd compromise on this year's pick and try together to turn the #9 and #29 into a couple picks in-between, so we each retain some sort of prize on draft night. Perhaps we could trade back and deal extra firsts to the Grizzlies, Wizards or whomever else to get our swap rights back. In a dream scenario, perhaps the Jazz would offer #21 and our '31 back in return for this year's #9...
These are the sorts of possibilities I prefer to imagine.
Rev the diesel engines and grease the treads, Mat! Let's roll (some dice)!
Slim Charless wrote:Also, I wouldn't mind re-routing small stuff to NOP for Zion. Ishbia wants stars and I can see him taking a shot on Zion.
Going to a deadbeat franchise like ours is ATM would be terrible for Zion's career. He should go to a team that has a shot at contending, a la Barkley to Phoenix. On a good team, he might be All-NBA. On a bad team, he'll be All-DNP.
Shocked Beal isn’t #1 but I guess the list is about “overrated” and not as much “overpaid”. Bit surprised Booker didn’t get any votes.
My guess, the Suns aren't good enough for people to think about their players and Beal is the poster child for over-paid and terrible contracts
Granted, if and when Booker signs that extension -- in a couple years, it will be DBooker
I am going to say it again - -you know Ishbia wants to keep Booker - fine. But extending him this year would be for me, one if not two years early At least SEE what team you can put around him. Give it a year - you will know in a year if the team is on the right track
The problem with Beal is he’s the exact same player as Booker, asked to play third fiddle to KD and Booker, and is very injury prone. That’s a perfect recipe to be “overrated”. This roster Ishbia built is cause for Beals downfall all the while Ishbia kisses Bookers rear end.
I challenge anyone on this board to name one thing Booker excels at other than shooting open mid range shots? Again key word “excels”. Ishbia blind love for Booker is just another reason this team will never succeed.
Extending Booker while he still has two more years on his current deal is how foolish management works. Extending a player who didn’t make the all-star team to make them the highest player in the league is what a clown does!
What bothers me most about the local media - Gambo, PHNX-SUNS, Kellan Olson - none of them that I can tell, bring up why it might be a good idea to trade Booker
We get it - not being traded. But maybe articulate why some fans want to move him. Like so many in the media give Booker a pass and is the goal to win or have DBook on the team
Plus, I don't think Book and Durant, their games, complement each other that well. I think Durant has to go if Booker is staying
Slim Charless wrote:Also, I wouldn't mind re-routing small stuff to NOP for Zion. Ishbia wants stars and I can see him taking a shot on Zion.
Going to a deadbeat franchise like ours is ATM would be terrible for Zion's career. He should go to a team that has a shot at contending, a la Barkley to Phoenix. On a good team, he might be All-NBA. On a bad team, he'll be All-DNP.
It doesn’t matter what Zion wants it’s what we WANT and we definitely want Zion in a Suns uniform ASAP!
Slim Charless wrote:Also, I wouldn't mind re-routing small stuff to NOP for Zion. Ishbia wants stars and I can see him taking a shot on Zion.
Going to a deadbeat franchise like ours is ATM would be terrible for Zion's career. He should go to a team that has a shot at contending, a la Barkley to Phoenix. On a good team, he might be All-NBA. On a bad team, he'll be All-DNP.
It doesn’t matter what Zion wants it’s what we WANT and we definitely want Zion in a Suns uniform ASAP!
I mean, we'd get lots of pictures of him in Suns warm-up gear. If it were reasonable to expect 60 days/year in our uniform, the Pelicans would be flooded with better offers.
BobbieL wrote: My guess, the Suns aren't good enough for people to think about their players and Beal is the poster child for over-paid and terrible contracts
Granted, if and when Booker signs that extension -- in a couple years, it will be DBooker
I am going to say it again - -you know Ishbia wants to keep Booker - fine. But extending him this year would be for me, one if not two years early At least SEE what team you can put around him. Give it a year - you will know in a year if the team is on the right track
The problem with Beal is he’s the exact same player as Booker, asked to play third fiddle to KD and Booker, and is very injury prone. That’s a perfect recipe to be “overrated”. This roster Ishbia built is cause for Beals downfall all the while Ishbia kisses Bookers rear end.
I challenge anyone on this board to name one thing Booker excels at other than shooting open mid range shots? Again key word “excels”. Ishbia blind love for Booker is just another reason this team will never succeed.
Extending Booker while he still has two more years on his current deal is how foolish management works. Extending a player who didn’t make the all-star team to make them the highest player in the league is what a clown does!
What bothers me most about the local media - Gambo, PHNX-SUNS, Kellan Olson - none of them that I can tell, bring up why it might be a good idea to trade Booker
We get it - not being traded. But maybe articulate why some fans want to move him. Like so many in the media give Booker a pass and is the goal to win or have DBook on the team
Plus, I don't think Book and Durant, their games, complement each other that well. I think Durant has to go if Booker is staying
They are scared to piss off the front office. The same front office that tells them enough info to keep them happy but not the full truth. Not a fan of Gambo or Kellan. Kellan has never given info that’s ground breaking. And Gambo is king Captain obvious. Marietta has to kiss Ishbia ass because he’s employeed by them. Bickley sometimes …. SOMETIMES goes against the grain to tell the real truth.
Let’s not forget, they ALL kissed Sarvers ass big time too. Gambo was Sarvers biggest ass kisser to the point he defended Sarver on everything.
We don’t have non/bias sports local media because there is something in it for them all personally.
I am such a lucky NBA fan. 8647 My favorite team went from the most greedy and racist owner to the most ego driven dumbass owner in all of sports fdt.
Only a fan of Arizona teams! Cardinals Dbacks Suns
ImNotMcDiSwear wrote: Going to a deadbeat franchise like ours is ATM would be terrible for Zion's career. He should go to a team that has a shot at contending, a la Barkley to Phoenix. On a good team, he might be All-NBA. On a bad team, he'll be All-DNP.
It doesn’t matter what Zion wants it’s what we WANT and we definitely want Zion in a Suns uniform ASAP!
I mean, we'd get lots of pictures of him in Suns warm-up gear. If it were reasonable to expect 60 days/year in our uniform, the Pelicans would be flooded with better offers.
Zion is a major gamble is the reason. Not many GMs wanna make that roll of the dice. Tho as GoK has pointed out multiple times-his contract is very team friendly. Alot of it is non guaranteed.
He will be very motivated. Especially if he's on a new team. If he can't play up to his potential next year, then he's done.
On paper though-he offers what we need next to Booker out of our PF spot:
-ELITE gravity at the basket. He's Shaq level there. -Fantastic ability to pass and handle the ball for a 4. -Potential MVP level player -Very young and fits Booker's timeline.
If Zion plays like he can, then he's our #1 and makes Booker possibly the best #2 in the league. With Dunn there as a lock down defender. That's a lot to work with.
Speaking of Nico, this is a pretty good read on how stuff went down for the Mavs. Probably the most bizarre storyline and trade that’s ever made in league history.
"At this point, there is already internal admission from some within Mavericks basketball operations that the Dončić deal is already a bad trade. But it’s the reality the team lives in at this point for the long haul."
Very ouch!!! Never thought there would be another current franchise that I would NOT trade places with. This is easily it.
I keep saying it (many do), but the issue was not that they traded Luka. It was that they traded him for ultimately nothing.
SunsRback4Good wrote: It doesn’t matter what Zion wants it’s what we WANT and we definitely want Zion in a Suns uniform ASAP!
I mean, we'd get lots of pictures of him in Suns warm-up gear. If it were reasonable to expect 60 days/year in our uniform, the Pelicans would be flooded with better offers.
Zion is a major gamble is the reason. Not many GMs wanna make that roll of the dice. Tho as GoK has pointed out multiple times-his contract is very team friendly. Alot of it is non guaranteed.
He will be very motivated. Especially if he's on a new team. If he can't play up to his potential next year, then he's done.
On paper though-he offers what we need next to Booker out of our PF spot:
-ELITE gravity at the basket. He's Shaq level there. -Fantastic ability to pass and handle the ball for a 4. -Potential MVP level player -Very young and fits Booker's timeline.
If Zion plays like he can, then he's our #1 and makes Booker possibly the best #2 in the league. With Dunn there as a lock down defender. That's a lot to work with.
Of the higher dollar players have seen floated KAT Markkanen Zion
I would probably pick Zion of those three for the reasons you mention. High reward. And since Mattyish likes to make a statement - he makes sense
I don't see Mat ever wanting to take a longer approach - more like "make a splash" and go year by year
Also, and I said it before, I don't want anymore gambles. Small KD trade to Houston to hopefully get at least 2 picks back and whatever fillers they want. If we get this years pick (9-11) we can use that and the Cavs pick to sell youth/excitement to the fans.
SunsRback4Good wrote: It doesn’t matter what Zion wants it’s what we WANT and we definitely want Zion in a Suns uniform ASAP!
I mean, we'd get lots of pictures of him in Suns warm-up gear. If it were reasonable to expect 60 days/year in our uniform, the Pelicans would be flooded with better offers.
Zion is a major gamble is the reason. Not many GMs wanna make that roll of the dice. Tho as GoK has pointed out multiple times-his contract is very team friendly. Alot of it is non guaranteed.
He will be very motivated. Especially if he's on a new team. If he can't play up to his potential next year, then he's done.
On paper though-he offers what we need next to Booker out of our PF spot:
-ELITE gravity at the basket. He's Shaq level there. -Fantastic ability to pass and handle the ball for a 4. -Potential MVP level player -Very young and fits Booker's timeline.
If Zion plays like he can, then he's our #1 and makes Booker possibly the best #2 in the league. With Dunn there as a lock down defender. That's a lot to work with.
You think Beal is overpaid. Wait till you see how much Zion is overpaid. Zion is lazy. There is reason the pelicans are trying to dump him. Dude never plays. We already have an overpaid player that never plays. Imagine having two of them. Zion has only play 60 games or more twice in 6 years. He averages 35 games played per year if you do the math.
The main culture problem on this team is lack of passion and laziness spearheaded by Devin Booker. And people want to add one of the laziest players in the NBA to this culture. I don’t get it.
I am such a lucky NBA fan. 8647 My favorite team went from the most greedy and racist owner to the most ego driven dumbass owner in all of sports fdt.
Only a fan of Arizona teams! Cardinals Dbacks Suns
King4Day wrote:Where are the Zion rumors coming from?
Also, and I said it before, I don't want anymore gambles. Small KD trade to Houston to hopefully get at least 2 picks back and whatever fillers they want. If we get this years pick (9-11) we can use that and the Cavs pick to sell youth/excitement to the fans.
I agree with you - I don't want Zion, Markkanen, KAT - all of those players would create the same financial restraints they have now
Dillon Brooks and another contract like Londale for filler A couple Suns picks back two young players like Jabari and Whitmore maybe they even save some cash to get under the apron level
m1chal wrote:Zion? Another super injury prone player to join Beal? That would be another disaster just waiting to kick us in the ass.
Sunsdeuce wrote:
Slim Charless wrote:
ImNotMcDiSwear wrote: I mean, we'd get lots of pictures of him in Suns warm-up gear. If it were reasonable to expect 60 days/year in our uniform, the Pelicans would be flooded with better offers.
Zion is a major gamble is the reason. Not many GMs wanna make that roll of the dice. Tho as GoK has pointed out multiple times-his contract is very team friendly. Alot of it is non guaranteed.
He will be very motivated. Especially if he's on a new team. If he can't play up to his potential next year, then he's done.
On paper though-he offers what we need next to Booker out of our PF spot:
-ELITE gravity at the basket. He's Shaq level there. -Fantastic ability to pass and handle the ball for a 4. -Potential MVP level player -Very young and fits Booker's timeline.
If Zion plays like he can, then he's our #1 and makes Booker possibly the best #2 in the league. With Dunn there as a lock down defender. That's a lot to work with.
You think Beal is overpaid. Wait till you see how much Zion is overpaid. Zion is lazy. There is reason the pelicans are trying to dump him. Dude never plays. We already have an overpaid player that never plays. Imagine having two of them. Zion has only play 60 games or more twice in 6 years. He averages 35 games played per year if you do the math.
The main culture problem on this team is lack of passion and laziness spearheaded by Devin Booker. And people want to add one of the laziest players in the NBA to this culture. I don’t get it.
Guys need to pay more attention to the entire post lol.
His contract is non-guaranteed. That means we can void the whole thing if he fails. Non guaranteed is a contract that is not guaranteed.
He'll be motivated and we have 0 risks on the deal. Question is how much we have to give up for him. I'm not giving up a lot. Small stuff
lilfishi22 wrote:The 2nd Apron which both NY and Minny are in also makes things complicated. I'm not totally clear on how cap holds work in the offseason in relation to 2nd apron calcs either so I just find both teams really difficult to try and come up with ideas for, not to mention the lack of draft capital either teams have to offer. I also don't see Detroit wanting to go all in on a KD right now.
On Zion, I still would prefer all the assets you listed above over Zion. Literally the only deal I want for Zion is one where Beal is involved otherwise I'm out
Surprisingly enough, the Knicks aren't actually in the 2nd apron yet:
His tweet is almost as long as some of my responses....lol. And a lot to unpack and parse through, but apparently they're currently under the 2nd apron and with what he points out about KAT, is the exact reason why I strongly believe the Knicks would adamantly do a 1 for 1 swap of KD for KAT.
BobbieL wrote: this would be an Ishbia trade not really improve the depth of the roster and flexibility with trades - meaning a 1:1 trade The suns need draft picks and some rotational players Booker can handle the scoring - build the roster around him plus get some draft picks back
But not an Ishbia trade for what I'm suggesting man! I think people are forgetting my motives behind considering a 1 for 1 KD for KAT swap.
The value purpose behind it is in acquiring KAT to trade him elsewhere to another team for equivalent assets ( ie; young players and draft picks) due to the fact that he's NOT 37, has more than 1 year remaining on his contract, and is putting up double/ double production on pretty solid efficiency.
Now he's obviously not on the level of KD, but he also wouldn't carry the value detractors that KD has with being 37 years old with only a few years left in his career, and could also opt out after the season. I'm looking to remove those arguments from the value equation!
So much of the same hypothetical reasoning for many teams to trade for KD to give them an offensive boost/ weapon in the frontcourt, could apply to KAT because when you compare their production statistically, there really isn't much of a gap at all. Only KD with moderately better efficiency.
So follow me here:
Houston. Has interest in KD to boost their offense because they suck offensively. And KD or Booker would fit there ideally do to their stellar/ elite defense covering for his potential defensive weaknesses. Allowing KD to focus solely on being offensively dominant! The same would apply to KAT.
Brooklyn. KAT is from New Jersey! Now Brooklyn drastically needs two things this summer! A franchise centerpiece talent to help them start pivoting towards being more competitive. And significant salary acquisitions to at minimum reach the league minimum roster threshold as they're easily around 100 million or more under the tax line. Currently, they only have 7 total players rostered. So maybe KAT for Cam Johnson/ filler/ 2-3 1sts?
New Orleans. New Orleans is a mess and looking to offload Zion. Currently they don't really even have a franchise centerpiece talent because Zion rarely ever plays! And Murray has been out for awhile now too. Does anyone not think they'd at least strongly consider a Zion/ fillers/ pick or two swap for KAT swap.
And possibly even a Zion/ Murray swap for Beal to get an actual franchise cornerstone player who fits there core and actually plays. And also get off of Murray's contract too early using Beal as a massive expiring after next season to help them bottom out more.
Charlotte. The Hornets have never really had a franchise centerpiece talent before Ball, and even he can't elevate them into the playoffs by himself! Adding KAT would dramatically help them in terms of talent and creating a dominant 1/2 punch offensive duo.
And they'd probably actually make it into the playoffs with him offering a more dominant frontcourt presence for them and a perfect compliment to Mark Williams defensively. ** And Charlotte is loaded with premium picks, etc.
San Antonio. San Antonio could use a dominant star presence to actually compliment their big 2 of Wemby and Fox. Adding KAT would allow them to create a twin tower combo with KAT focusing on offense and Wemby on defense with Fox and Castle playing off of both! San antonio has some interesting players, but Also a ton of draft picks to offer!
Orlando. Orlando has great defense, and a very dominant post player in Banchero. But they lack floor spacing and scoring balance. KAT could ideally play at the 4 or 5 interchangeably alongside of Banchero giving them scoring and floor spacing to really open things up for Bsnchero and Franz. Orlando also has a ton of picks to offer and some key supplementary defensive options too.
Memphis. After the embarassing beatdown by OKC in which the Grizzlies really struggled to put points on the board and keep pace, and also after their ownerships' pivot to a more offensive oriented approach.
KAT playing beside of Jackson Jr creating an ideal offensive/ defensive twin towers combo that Morant and/ or Bane could play off of would be very enticing to Memphis! They have a bunch of young players and picks to offer in trade too.
Detroit. Detroit has an exceptional defense with physicality and tenacity. But what they lack most is a strong offensive balance and a legitimate 2nd star option for Cunningham to play with. KAT would give Cade a star sidekick to help him carry the offensive load.
And Detroit's strong defense could help cobmver KATs defensive blemishes..Detroit also has a ton of cap space, picks and intriguing young talent to offer up in trade!
Portland. Portland has been looking for a legitimate star player/ centerpiece option since the Lillard trade! They've overpaid for Grant to try and be that, but he clearly isn't that.
KAT would give them a major offensive frontcourt upgrade to play alongside of Klingan with Simon's and Sharpe playing off of both! They also have multiple intriguing two way pieces, and a bunch of draft capital to use in a trade too.
Atlanta. Atlanta is fairly desperate to get Young to stay and to try and be more competitive to offset the picks they've given up in trades. They've never really had a great offensive frontcourt compliment for Young, and Young gas been clamoring for another star player to help him carry the loss there. KAT could be that for them.
Now they don't have a ton of great picks, but they do have some still, and they also have some really intriguing young players to offer such as Okongwu, Mann, Daniels, Johnson and Risarcher!
Los Angeles Flakers. As much as I'd hate helping the Flakers in any way, they do have some very interesting players to offer that could really give us some impact and maybe a pick or two as well. I'd be most interested in a package with Austin Reeves, Dalton Knecht, Vanderbilt and Finney Smith or Hachimura. And their 2031' 1st.
Sacramento. After the huge letdown in the playoffs and the resulting mess surrounding the entire team, Sacramento would be chomping at the bit to pair KAT alongside of Sabonis. And let Lavine play off of him.
Now this would be a more pick heavy package, but we should at minimum be able to pull a De Rozan (* traded elsewhere)/ Monk/ Murray/ D Carter/ 3 1sts package for KAT. And again, moving DeRozan elsewhere (maybe Memphis or Utah)?? for other young players and picks?
But again, the premise is to trade KD for him and then package him elsewhere for more players, picks, expirings. So that's the value in this trade of KD for KAT.
lilfishi22 wrote:This is also a big reason why I don't see NY as being a great trade partner. Not only do they not have the players or contracts I find attractive (other than Mikal) but they also don't have the draft capital to make it worth our while.
NOW if they are looking for another scoring option without giving up much.....we have a Beal to sell them.
Seems like Knicks fans are turning on Mikal too.
Of course they would
Nets receive: unprotected 1st-round pick in 2025 unprotected 1st-round pick in 2027 unprotected 1st-round pick in 2029 unprotected 1st-round pick in 2031 unprotected pick swap in 2028 top-four protected 2025 1st-round pick via Bucks 2nd round pick in 2025
