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The Trade Thread: All Eyes Toward The Offseason

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Re: The Trade Thread: All Eyes Toward The Offseason 

Post#761 » by Moochthemonkey » Fri Apr 8, 2016 8:58 pm

GoranTragic wrote:
Mulhollanddrive wrote:“I think when you’re with an organization like the Celtics or the Suns that have great history and tradition, it’s not really acceptable or certainly not desirable to bottom out. You don’t want to bottom out and hope for luck in the lottery."

Ryan McDonough 2015.


That stupid asinine comment came from Sarver. Zero doubt in my mind. I'm sure he somehow figured if he said tanking was alright then he would sell less tickets. The guy is a **** moron.


he's right though. I don't think tankers go to games.Also, you cannot admit to blatantly tanking without alienating many fans, and even possibly risk being fined and having to forfeit a spot in the lottery. Still, McD's statement by itself isn't well put forward though.

letsgosuns wrote:I am just going to say I never once believed in that 2013-14 team that won 48 games ever. I always thought it was a fools gold and a 100% fluke. I saw through it from day one. That team won a bunch of games that year because Goran Dragic played completely out of his mind and he has never come close to that level prior to or since that season. And a big mistake that McDonough deserves to be called out on was his refusal to trade the Washington pick (turned out to be Tyler Ennis) for Pau Gasol. Imagine how much different the past three seasons would have ended had the Suns traded for Gasol. Oh well. At least they have Booker. That is the only saving grace for this franchise. Without him, they legitimately are no better than the rest of the bottom feeders of the league.


Thoughts on the current Celtics team??

Do you know what the actual offer was though?? Do you believe the Lakers would be willing to help the Suns especially after they just got the worse end of the deal with the Nash trade. Even if you're right and the Suns managed to trade for Gasol, it is likely that we would be a fringe playoff team. There would still be a lot of whinging in these parts about being a "mediocre treadmill team" who 'wasted' asset(s) (the Washington pick, possibly the 2015 pick, and possibly cap-space) to get to this level. And yet, there is still a significant amount of complaining here even when we are horrendously bad and in position to get a good pick, as was the case in 2013. It's the zero sum game that's played by a lot of fans (not just here), if you're not a contender then you go the Hinkie route.

The sad part is that you are right. Dragic had an MVP season and Sarver couldn't think straight. Therefore if we end up losing a shot at the first pick because we don't realize that we need a top three pick then I guess McD is working for Ainge.

Can someone else offer an explanation for why we won tonight?


I can give you several.
-The Rockets are broken, have poor chemistry, and poor coaching
-The Rockets played a close game the night before
-Tyson Chandler, PJ Tucker, Mirza played better than usual
-Harden is one of the few players who seems to play worse than his average against the Suns
-Archie actually played instead of Jenkins and Budinger
-Ronnie Price in the game means better ball movement. Knight deactivated = addition by substraction

saintEscaton wrote: bottom out. You don’t want to bottom out and hope for luck in the lottery."

Ryan McDonough 2015.



That stupid asinine comment came from Sarver. Zero doubt in my mind. I'm sure he somehow figured if he said tanking was alright then he would sell less tickets. The guy is a **** moron.



No that was McDumbarse on the record


He was trying to hype up the Chandler and Knight signings at the beginning of the season. But that aside do you really believe McD is adverse to bottoming out? Look at the 13-14 roster.
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Re: The Trade Thread: All Eyes Toward The Offseason 

Post#762 » by AtheJ415 » Fri Apr 8, 2016 9:26 pm

NaturalBuns wrote:
AtheJ415 wrote:
NaturalBuns wrote:Why do people make it out that trying to get a 7th or 8th seed is bad? Because you stay mediocre?


I went back over the last 5-6 season of both conferences 7-8th seeded teams and it looked like that's almost the way to go if you don't have a top 5 player. All those teams that ppl portray as mediocre ended up exploding.

Boston had 7th seed doing fine as hell
Hawks had 8th seed turned it in 1st.
Pacers had 8th seed turned it into elite status behind cavs.

Houston had 8th seed and now makes the playoffs yearly and does damage. OKC had 8th seed.....

The list goes on and on.
The barely making the playoffs is a
Myth or behind times with how it works now.


The key is though that you have to be a team who is young and on the upswing to have a promising future at the 7 or 8 seed. For us, we've got to build around youth and a similar age range. Once they become good enough, we'll be in those spots, but until then, I don't see why we'd be better off with some plans to get there that involve signing vets or trading youth for moderate upgrades like I've seen at times here.
y

Signing a few vets isn't bad if they embrace the role of coaching the young guys. I can def say I'm happy with chandler because Len is really starting to develop. Dragic and Bledsoe developed under HOF guards. I feel like you need that mix unless you draft a superstar like Anthony Davis or along those lines.


Sorry, but Chandler was an awful signing. If you want leadership you can get it by signing a vet minimum aging guy who just wants another year of salary rather than a guy getting $13 million and half assing it for the first half of the season, while busting his ass to win games later on that we don't want to win. It made sense at the time but he's been awful this season. I was fine with it at the time b/c of the possibility of Aldridge and the fact that Tyson was coming off a career high win share (3rd in the entire NBA). He has fallen off a cliff in year 1 of his deal. That isn't good at all.
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Re: The Trade Thread: All Eyes Toward The Offseason 

Post#763 » by Qwigglez » Fri Apr 8, 2016 10:02 pm

You think Pacers would consider moving PG13 and their 2016 pick for our pick, Wizards pick, 2018 Miami pick, Len, Warren, and send Brandon Knight to possibly a 3rd team for another pick plus expiring (ex. Bulls for Taj Gibson and their pick). Would you guys consider it? Giving up a lot for Paul George, but then we'd have a nucleus to build around with Bled/Book/PG13. Try and get Al Horford here, keep Mirza, Price, & Tucker off the bench. Bring Bogdan over. Sign Dudley.
Our lineup would look like this...
Bledsoe/Booker/George/Horford/Chandler
Price/Dudley/Tucker/Mirza + Bogdan/Archie/draft pick

Would we able to compete with Warriors and Spurs at that point? Remember that Duncan/Gino might retire.
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Re: The Trade Thread: All Eyes Toward The Offseason 

Post#764 » by saintEscaton » Fri Apr 8, 2016 10:03 pm

Qwigglez wrote:You think Pacers would consider moving PG13 and their 2016 pick for our pick, Wizards pick, 2018 Miami pick, Len, Warren, and send Brandon Knight to possibly a 3rd team for another pick plus expiring (ex. Bulls for Taj Gibson and their pick). Would you guys consider it? Giving up a lot for Paul George, but then we'd have a nucleus to build around with Bled/Book/PG13. Try and get Al Horford here, keep Mirza, Price, & Tucker off the bench. Bring Bogdan over. Sign Dudley.
Our lineup would look like this...
Bledsoe/Booker/George/Horford/Chandler
Price/Dudley/Tucker/Mirza + Bogdan/Archie/draft pick

Would we able to compete with Warriors and Spurs at that point? Remember that Duncan/Gino might retire.

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Re: The Trade Thread: All Eyes Toward The Offseason 

Post#765 » by Qwigglez » Fri Apr 8, 2016 10:08 pm

^even if we got a top 2 pick?
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Re: The Trade Thread: All Eyes Toward The Offseason 

Post#766 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Fri Apr 8, 2016 10:15 pm

AtheJ415 wrote:Sorry, but Chandler was an awful signing. If you want leadership you can get it by signing a vet minimum aging guy who just wants another year of salary rather than a guy getting $13 million and half assing it for the first half of the season, while busting his ass to win games later on that we don't want to win. It made sense at the time but he's been awful this season. I was fine with it at the time b/c of the possibility of Aldridge and the fact that Tyson was coming off a career high win share (3rd in the entire NBA). He has fallen off a cliff in year 1 of his deal. That isn't good at all.


Have you watched any games recently? Tyson's been putting up some numbers. I'm sure Cleveland would love him, though making a deal work with them would require a third team. Personally, I think Alex is ready to start. He needs a backup, not a buddy. But Tyson's an asset, make no mistake - one I'd be in favor of liquidating.
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Re: The Trade Thread: All Eyes Toward The Offseason 

Post#767 » by jcsunsfan » Fri Apr 8, 2016 10:16 pm

cosmofizzo wrote:
AtheJ415 wrote:Sorry, but Chandler was an awful signing. If you want leadership you can get it by signing a vet minimum aging guy who just wants another year of salary rather than a guy getting $13 million and half assing it for the first half of the season, while busting his ass to win games later on that we don't want to win. It made sense at the time but he's been awful this season. I was fine with it at the time b/c of the possibility of Aldridge and the fact that Tyson was coming off a career high win share (3rd in the entire NBA). He has fallen off a cliff in year 1 of his deal. That isn't good at all.


Have you watched any games recently? Tyson's been putting up some numbers. I'm sure Cleveland would love him, though making a deal work with them would require a third team. Personally, I think Alex is ready to start. He needs a backup, not a buddy. But Tyson's an asset, make no mistake - one I'd be in favor of liquidating.


Tyson Chandler has been worth his contract to this team.
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Re: The Trade Thread: All Eyes Toward The Offseason 

Post#768 » by thamadkant » Fri Apr 8, 2016 10:31 pm

Qwigglez wrote:You think Pacers would consider moving PG13 and their 2016 pick for our pick, Wizards pick, 2018 Miami pick, Len, Warren, and send Brandon Knight to possibly a 3rd team for another pick plus expiring (ex. Bulls for Taj Gibson and their pick). Would you guys consider it? Giving up a lot for Paul George, but then we'd have a nucleus to build around with Bled/Book/PG13. Try and get Al Horford here, keep Mirza, Price, & Tucker off the bench. Bring Bogdan over. Sign Dudley.
Our lineup would look like this...
Bledsoe/Booker/George/Horford/Chandler
Price/Dudley/Tucker/Mirza + Bogdan/Archie/draft pick

Would we able to compete with Warriors and Spurs at that point? Remember that Duncan/Gino might retire.




Pacers if they decide to rebuild and trade George...
To the Suns..

Minimum... Booker, Suns pick 2016 and maybe a future first too and maybe absorb one of their bad contracts.


I would do it... But assuming Suns have another move to bring in a Cousins or a Love to form an all star trio.
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Re: The Trade Thread: All Eyes Toward The Offseason 

Post#769 » by thamadkant » Fri Apr 8, 2016 10:35 pm

Qwigglez wrote:^even if we got a top 2 pick?




They'll part with a legit top 10 two way player player for MAYBE Booker and a pick 2 on a strong draft... This draft maybe not so. Need another asset.


But again as I mentioned above. I would do it only assuming suns have another couple of moves to bring in another star.

But if its the only move... Then Suns dont really improve much and they get George who is likely to get impatient with a worse team than his Pacers.
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Re: The Trade Thread: All Eyes Toward The Offseason 

Post#770 » by saintEscaton » Fri Apr 8, 2016 10:55 pm

jcsunsfan wrote:
cosmofizzo wrote:
AtheJ415 wrote:Sorry, but Chandler was an awful signing. If you want leadership you can get it by signing a vet minimum aging guy who just wants another year of salary rather than a guy getting $13 million and half assing it for the first half of the season, while busting his ass to win games later on that we don't want to win. It made sense at the time but he's been awful this season. I was fine with it at the time b/c of the possibility of Aldridge and the fact that Tyson was coming off a career high win share (3rd in the entire NBA). He has fallen off a cliff in year 1 of his deal. That isn't good at all.


Have you watched any games recently? Tyson's been putting up some numbers. I'm sure Cleveland would love him, though making a deal work with them would require a third team. Personally, I think Alex is ready to start. He needs a backup, not a buddy. But Tyson's an asset, make no mistake - one I'd be in favor of liquidating.


Tyson Chandler has been worth his contract to this team.


He's a deadweight sunk cost. Everybody knew was a ringchasing over the hill bum yet we hadned him his last paycheck
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Re: The Trade Thread: All Eyes Toward The Offseason 

Post#771 » by letsgosuns » Fri Apr 8, 2016 10:58 pm

Tyson Chandler is not the problem on the Suns. He is doing exactly what he has done his entire career. The difference is that he is not playing next to great players. His value is the intangibles he provides a team. He is the missing link defensive center that a team like Nash Suns needed to get over the hump. He did for Dallas what Dampier could not do. He is also not overpaid. When you look at contracts for big men in the league over time, anyone that is good always gets paid a huge amount. Look at Enes Kanter. He averages 12 and 8 and has a max salary. Robin Lopez is paid more than Chandler.

Now I am not saying Chandler should stay or get traded. I am just saying he is not what is wrong with the team. Far from it imo. The team overall lacks talent. If anybody is expecting Chandler to change the team himself, they are forgetting what he has done for most of his career. If you put Blake Griffin next to Chandler, everything changes. That is what Chandler needs the most. A dominant power forward next to him. By the time he played with Amare on the Knicks, Amare was so far past his prime it was sad. 2004-05 Amare with Chandler would have been incredible. Now the Suns just need to find better players to play with Chandler assuming they do not trade him.
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Re: The Trade Thread: All Eyes Toward The Offseason 

Post#772 » by saintEscaton » Fri Apr 8, 2016 11:10 pm

Tyson can kick rocks for all I care, we shouldn't make any personnel decision with him in mind.He can vouch for Watson all he wants but he should have no say on the hiring when he doesn't fit into the big picture
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Re: The Trade Thread: All Eyes Toward The Offseason 

Post#773 » by letsgosuns » Fri Apr 8, 2016 11:28 pm

saintEscaton wrote:Tyson can kick rocks for all I care, we shouldn't make any personnel decision with him in mind.He can vouch for Watson all he wants but he should have no say on the hiring when he doesn't fit into the big picture


Oh I agree. I just do not think he is anywhere close to the root of the problem. He is the type of player you bring in as the final piece of the puzzle to a championship team. It would be like trying to build a team around Andrew Bogut when your team is awful. Like Bogut is the key guy inside to play defense and rebound, but if you do not have Curry, Thompson, Green, and the rest of the guys, having Bogut is pointless. Kind of like having Chandler on the Suns is pointless because the team is terrible. The problem imo is the front offices' vision and I have no trust in them whatsoever that they will do the right thing. I only trust them to draft the right guy. Trades, free agent signings, and hiring a coach is something I have zero trust in them to do correctly.
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Re: The Trade Thread: All Eyes Toward The Offseason 

Post#774 » by TeamTragic » Sat Apr 9, 2016 2:41 am

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Re: RE: Re: The Trade Thread: All Eyes Toward The Offseason 

Post#775 » by carey » Sat Apr 9, 2016 3:22 am

1UPZ wrote:Pacers if they decide to rebuild and trade George...
To the Suns..

Minimum... Booker, Suns pick 2016 and maybe a future first too and maybe absorb one of their bad contracts.



That is kind of absurd.
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Re: The Trade Thread: All Eyes Toward The Offseason 

Post#776 » by letsgosuns » Sat Apr 9, 2016 3:27 am

I would not even trade Booker straight up for George. I would hang up the phone. Idk about anyone else but I expect Booker to be a top ten player in basketball within a couple years.
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Re: The Trade Thread: All Eyes Toward The Offseason 

Post#777 » by saintEscaton » Sat Apr 9, 2016 3:41 am

letsgosuns wrote:I would not even trade Booker straight up for George. I would hang up the phone. Idk about anyone else but I expect Booker to be a top ten player in basketball within a couple years.


Hold your horses. I think we're getting a little ahead of ourselves here
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Re: The Trade Thread: All Eyes Toward The Offseason 

Post#778 » by Jdiddy701 » Sat Apr 9, 2016 3:50 am

saintEscaton wrote:
letsgosuns wrote:I would not even trade Booker straight up for George. I would hang up the phone. Idk about anyone else but I expect Booker to be a top ten player in basketball within a couple years.


Hold your horses. I think we're getting a little ahead of ourselves here


He will be.


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Re: The Trade Thread: All Eyes Toward The Offseason 

Post#779 » by bwgood77 » Sat Apr 9, 2016 3:54 am

saintEscaton wrote:
letsgosuns wrote:I would not even trade Booker straight up for George. I would hang up the phone. Idk about anyone else but I expect Booker to be a top ten player in basketball within a couple years.


Hold your horses. I think we're getting a little ahead of ourselves here


There are many fans who think that, but if you posed the straight up question on the Bulls board they would laugh. All other packages we could give them are worthless unless they want to go complete rebuild but then we would have to give up a TON of picks, but still that can't be enough, because they would want a young premier prospect as well, and Len or Warren or anyone else doesn't cut it for that. That's why all these deals proposed for stars without Booker are somewhat preposterous because most of those guys are locked in and trading for stars only happens anyway when they are coming up to the final years of contracts and are not restricted. Bledsoe or Knight are not much younger than Butler so why would they value one of those guys over him as the trade centerpiece? Only if we got a top two pick would a deal for him get them to bite, but I'd rather keep Booker or that pick in that case anyway.
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Re: RE: Re: The Trade Thread: All Eyes Toward The Offseason 

Post#780 » by thamadkant » Sat Apr 9, 2016 4:02 am

carey wrote:
1UPZ wrote:Pacers if they decide to rebuild and trade George...
To the Suns..

Minimum... Booker, Suns pick 2016 and maybe a future first too and maybe absorb one of their bad contracts.



That is kind of absurd.



From suns fans yeah.. Its absurd.

From pacers fans and their GM... Thats what it would take.


Paul George is probably 2nd best defensive SF...
Top 4 offensive SF in the league.

Can shoot the 3pt, finish witha dunk and shut down players. From pacers point of view.. Not absurd.

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